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[watdaeff4]

2019 seems way too far.

My guess is May 2018, earliest, Fall 2018 latest.

Keep in mind how Sony games have been this gen. I'm guessing 2019 also and I'm okay with that.


Meanwhile initially I was hopin for Last of Us to be a self-contained story. But with this concept I'm happy for a sequel, I hope they pull it off but I have faith in ND

 

[H.Cornerstone]

They were still 2 teams when this would have entered preproduction. Part break, part help finish uc4. Towards the crunch of UC4 you don't need all of the extra people from team 2 to help uc4 so they switch to art of and motion capture starts.

I just doubt how late full production started when you got the story framework's, it's a sequel so makes everything just a little bit faster to do because you don't have to build from scratch just refine how you do the most intensive stuff I.e. the new mo-cap work flow. Plus farm teams/anything at their disposal




http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=23132&postcount=145

It could be ready by Fall 2018, I just think they'll delay it to Spring 2019 to not mess with the other holiday releases.

 

[Uno Venova]

I'm guessing the first time we see this game is at the next PSX, Sony is really putting this event over as the showcase to watch.

 

[Memento]

I'm guessing the first time we see this game is at the next PSX, Sony is really putting this event over as the showcase to watch.

Yeah, if it is coming 2019 I dont think we will see gameplay already at next E3. PSX2017 at the earliest.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Could not disagree more. Ellie was a child, not an adult. Joel was a father figure who took her in as her adopted daughter, reluctantly at first, because he did not want to loose her like he lost his blood daughter. His actions at the end were nowhere near selfish or evil, Joel was trying to protect his child. It's no different than how sometimes a parent needs to lie to their children to protect them, because they are at an age that they simply cannot understand or comprehend the truth. As a Father, I will protect my children at any cost and thus would have done the same thing as Joel every day and twice on Sundays.

You definitely cannot argue that Joel's actions towards Ellie end-game is not motivated by love, but you can definitely, in my opinion, make an argument that his actions there are selfish and perhaps even evil.

I think there's some truth in theWB27's assertion that Joel needed to protect himself more, beyond all else, even Ellie's, and that's why he could look her into her eyes and straight up lied.

And you are forgetting that while Ellie may be a young woman, she was born in a hellish world and has gone through so much shit in her life compared to many adults, so I think your assertion in that Ellie could not think for herself and must rely on an adult to make the "correct" decision on her behalf is hogwash--she's already more grown up way beyond her years.

 

[farmerboy]

I just hope she keeps the guitar so I can kick some tasty acoustic jams between murder escapades!

You know, I always thought that would make a really cool minigame/interaction. But no direction. Just you experimenting at a camp fire. Different button presses holding different chords. You strum with the touch pad maybe. I've thought about this way too much.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Cant wait to see combat with 19yo Ellie. The melee animations will be awesome!

Guitar-string garrote.

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

This was where I expected and hoped a Last of Us sequel would go. Ellie as protagonist, having to deal with the repercussions of Joel's actions in the first game.

 

[Not]

Rad. Rad. Rad. Rad.

 

[DirtyLarry]

I am going to go out on a limb and say anyone who has a problem playing as Ellie voted for Trump and/or is under the age of 16.

 

[zsynqx]

I am going to go out on a limb and say anyone who has a problem playing as Ellie voted for Trump and/or is under the age of 16.

Can't be an and, has to be an or for that to work.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=23132&postcount=145

Jeez

 

[jaaz]

You definitely cannot argue that Joel's actions towards Ellie end-game is not motivated by love, but you can definitely, in my opinion, make an argument that his actions there are selfish and perhaps even evil.

I think there's some truth in theWB27's assertion that Joel needed to protect himself more, beyond all else, even Ellie's, and that's why he could look her into her eyes and straight up lied.

And you are forgetting that while Ellie may be a young woman, she was born in a hellish world and has gone through so much shit in her life compared to many adults, so I think your assertion in that Ellie could not think for herself and must rely on an adult to make the "correct" decision on her behalf is hogwash--she's already more grown up way beyond her years.

At the end of the say, you can make any argument, but to say that Joel's actions at the end were evil--that's just not a reasonable one. For example, if he were evil, he could have just let her died and walked away at the end. Whether you agree with Joel or not, it's clear, in my opinion, from the first act to the last, that he's acting as a parent. It helps to see this if you are a parent yourself.

As for her age, Ellie is 14, not matter what she's been through. The game is full of examples that show she's just a child, from giraffes and the like. Just because a child has gone through traumatic episodes does not make her all of a sudden have the mind and mental capacity of a 19 year old. In fact, just the opposite, PTSD is common in such instances and many children actually regress to a younger mindset than their actual age.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Wtf???

There are real life women in the military. In canon, there are female fireflies and hunters, evidenced in the MP. They were only excluded from the campaign due to hardware limitations of the PS3.

Really now?

Got any source for that?

 

[sjay1994]

If the game comes out 2018 it would be perfect since it is exactly 5 years apart and it means the world progressed in real time. Ellie is 19 in part II and was 14 in the original.

I love when sequels do that, where the time between installments is the real time in between their release.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Cant wait to see combat with 19yo Ellie. The melee animations will be awesome!

Actually that's the only thing I'm worried about.

Joel's melee animations were awesome! He was brutally killing and smashing heads against the wall with his bare fists.

I hope Ellie is the same.

I just don't want her to fight with her knife.

If the game comes out 2018 it would be perfect since it is exactly 5 years apart and it means the world progressed in real time. Ellie is 19 in part II and was 14 in the original.

I love when sequels do that, where the time between installments is the real time in between their release.

That's what I said yesterday. Uncharted does that. it's cool!

 

[Skilletor]

35 year old male. Can't wait to play as ellie.

And holy shit at how many people totally missed the significance of the opening in the first game. Lol.

 

[sjay1994]

Actually that's the only thing I'm worried about.

Joel's melee animations were awesome! He was brutally killing and smashing heads against the wall with his bare fists.

I hope Ellie is the same.

I just don't want her to fight with her knife.



That's what I said yesterday. Uncharted does that. it's cool!

Yeah, I also agree with you about being worried that Ellie's the playable character, simply because I found Joel's sections, gameplay and animations a lot more fun and satisfying than Ellie's. Charging someone then beating them with a 2X4 felt so fucking good.

I didn't enjoy left behind because I felt the gameplay sections felt inferior and limited to the base games Joel sections. I understand they shouldn't just make her play like Joel in this game, so what I am hoping is they come up with fun mechanics that work for her.

From a narrative view, Ellie being the playable character is basically what makes me ok with continuing Joel and Ellie's story, since it feels Joel's story concluded nicely.

But yeah, real passage of time in sequels is the best.

 

[Laughing Banana]

At the end of the say, you can make any argument, but to say that Joel's actions at the end were evil--that's just not a reasonable one. For example, if he were evil, he could have just let her died and walked away at the end. Whether you agree with Joel or not, it's clear, in my opinion, from the first act to the last, that he's acting as a parent. It helps to see this if you are a parent yourself.

As for her age, Ellie is 14, not matter what she's been through. The game is full of examples that show she's just a child, from giraffes and the like. Just because a child has gone through traumatic episodes does not make her all of a sudden have the mind and mental capacity of a 19 year old. In fact, just the opposite, PTSD is common in such instances and many children actually regress to a younger mindset than their actual age.

Nope, it's really not unreasonable to view his actions as selfish and evil. Evil in the way that he clearly prioritized his own feelings, his own well-being, above the possible salvation of humanity, above even what Ellie actually wanted--He wanted Ellie all for himself, without willing to hear what she herself wanted. He even killed Marlene in cold blood because he didn't want the safety of his selfishness to be compromised in any way.

That what makes the ending so powerful and unique, in my eyes. It's different than many other endings where good and evils are so easily defined.

 

[TheStruggler]

Actually that's the only thing I'm worried about.

Joel's melee animations were awesome! He was brutally killing and smashing heads against the wall with his bare fists.

I hope Ellie is the same.

I just don't want her to fight with her knife.



That's what I said yesterday. Uncharted does that. it's cool!

did you see the brutality of the combat Chloe used in the new uncharted, imagine that dialed up to 10

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Ellie is a fantastic character, I honestly don't see why anyone would think this.

People, especially gamers are incredibly shallow. They will refuse to play a game just because they feel they cannot relate to the character as stupid as that is imo.

 

[LurkFish17]

I've seen some people think that they won't be able to do brutal combat slamming people around like in the first game with ellie since it would break the realism. This dude is one anyway. (Not that I think there's any worry about the game being bad)

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=pgypOxn2688

 

[Aquavelvaman]

I hope Joel dies early on so Ellie can finally say to herself "I really am the last of us..."

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I betcha it's this:

Joel is alive and well but because he's getting older, now it's Ellie's turn to protect him instead if the other way around.

That's why you play as Ellie, now. She's having to make the tough decisions for the duo this go around because Joel is getting older and can't do what he used to do.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Really now?

Got any source for that?

Naughty Dog said it themselves, said it was a limitation in the PS3 with the amount of memory on hand.

 

[sjay1994]

Naughty Dog said it themselves, said it was a limitation in the PS3 with the amount of memory on hand.

PS3, it can only do everything except women.

Honestly, I shouldn't doubt them but considering the MP had female characters (with similar animations to Joel) and Uncharted 4 had no female enemies (grunts) I have a hard time believing that.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Really now?

Got any source for that?

sure. druckmann himself:

Q: Hello! My question is related to my only real complaint i have with the game. Was there a story reason as to why there were only Male hunters who fight Ellie and Joel but no female ones? It's not a massive problem but I thought it was quite strange to me. Thanks!

A: It was mostly a tech/time issue (Melee animations for a different rig required a whole new set of animations and more memory).
Where we could, we included female antagonists (there are female soldiers that shoot at you that are outside of melee range).

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ykno8/hi_were_neil_druckmann_creative_director_and/cfldd4q/

 

[Laughing Banana]

Naughty Dog said it themselves, said it was a limitation in the PS3 with the amount of memory on hand.

sure. druckmann himself:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ykno8/hi_were_neil_druckmann_creative_director_and/cfldd4q/

Hoh, so it's "impossible to animate" women thingie like the one pulled by Ubisoft.

 

[TheStruggler]

I've seen some people think that they won't be able to do brutal combat slamming people around like in the first game with ellie since it would break the realism. This dude is one anyway. (Not that I think there's any worry about the game being bad)

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=pgypOxn2688

dude least fav sections of TLOU was Ellie meanwhile she is a little girl, she's pretty much an adult now. I think a way to work around "JOEL'S RAW POWER" would be she is great at stealth, she is one hell of a melee weapon user (give her something raw and brutal) but also I think she could focus on speed and agility, not effectively take out targets with raw power but with a flurry of quick strikes whilst also being flexible and nimble. Think The Raid/The Raid 2 but lower the strikes and speed by a little.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

did you see the brutality of the combat Chloe used in the new uncharted, imagine that dialed up to 10

That was cool for Uncharted but it doesn't work for TLOU.

Joel didn't have "moves" or fighting style. He just brutally fights like a normal man. That was what's good about it.

And the bricks need to come back!

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Hoh, so it's "impossible to animate" women thingie like the one pulled by Ubisoft.

or, they had to deal with the limited memory of the PS3 and made the cuts where they could.

Which is a much more valid and reasonable answer.

 

[Laughing Banana]

or, they had to deal with the limited memory of the PS3 and made the cuts where they could.

Which is a much more valid and reasonable answer.

If you say so.

 

[TheStruggler]

That was cool for Uncharted but it doesn't work for TLOU.

Joel didn't have "moves" or fighting style. He just brutally fights like a normal man. That was what's good about it.

And the bricks need to come back!

yes that work for uncharted, now throw in some blood and her bashing that guys head in the air conditioner? a few extra times and you have the same,thing. While I get people say Joel was just brutal etc. Imagine Ellie being way more strategic in fights by breaking body parts, snapping necks, using her agility and quickness for take downs using her whole body instead of just her upper. Animation wise I think it could be beautifully done

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

Hoh, so it's "impossible to animate" women thingie like the one pulled by Ubisoft.

He didn't say it's impossible to animate. it's just PS3's memory couldn't handle more animations.
They also cut few male animations that were there in pre-release demos because of PS3 memory limitation.

 

[pastrami]

If you say so.

Why ask for a source if you aren't going to believe it and choose to believe in your own narrative anyways?

 

[LurkFish17]

dude least fav sections of TLOU was Ellie meanwhile she is a little girl, she's pretty much an adult now. I think a way to work around "JOEL'S RAW POWER" would be she is great at stealth, she is one hell of a melee weapon user (give her something raw and brutal) but also I think she could focus on speed and agility, not effectively take out targets with raw power but with a flurry of quick strikes whilst also being flexible and nimble. Think The Raid/The Raid 2 but lower the strikes and speed by a little.

I agree, there's ways for her to be brutal. She could go for the legs first, get the opponent off their feet and beat the hell out of them while they're down. Combat may just be more difficult, since she would have to catch an enemy off guard.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Why ask for a source if you aren't going to believe it and choose to believe in your own narrative anyways?

Well, I asked for a source and then when I get the explanation on the supposed why by the dev, I don't really buy their explanation, so... sorry if I offend you or something?

Don't worry though, I still consider ND as one of the finest developers out there.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

I agree, there's ways for her to be brutal. She could go for the legs first, get the opponent off their feet and beat the hell out of them while they're down. Combat may just be more difficult, since she would have to catch an enemy off guard.

yes that work for uncharted, now throw in some blood and her bashing that guys head in the air conditioner? a few extra times and you have the same,thing. While I get people say Joel was just brutal etc. Imagine Ellie being way more strategic in fights by breaking body parts, snapping necks, using her agility and quickness for take downs using her whole body instead of just her upper. Animation wise I think it could be beautifully done

That actually sounds good. Breaking body parts and strategically going for the leg first and all that but that would require a dodge/counter button.

All I want is that the default melee attacks are with her fists instead of her knife or some other weapon.


EDIT: And since Straley is not there anymore, I'm worried that Druckmann goes with the knife because it's easier to design the combat with.

 

[PositiveGamer]

Did anyone notice the back window in the trailer with the leaves? I am pretty sure that's the same window from the opening of last of us 1..

Thoughts?

 

[pastrami]

Well, I asked for a source and then when I get the explanation on the supposed why by the dev, I don't really buy their explanation, so... sorry if I offend you or something?

Don't worry though, I still consider ND as one of the finest developers out there.

"They didn't include females antagonists because they didn't have enough RAM."
"Got a source on that?"
"Yeah. Druckmann: We didn't have enough RAM to include female antagonists."
"I don't believe you."

I'm not sure there's any reasonable way for anyone to convince you that it was a technical limitation because you are set on believing that it wasn't one. And what leads you to believe that I'm offended? I was just dumbfounded by that comment chain.

 

[gfxtwin]

I mean is that scene at the end of TLOU1 really more about good/evil, or is it possible one of the themes in TLOU might be asking whether or not there could be an enigmatic quality of love being both sefish and unselfish sometimes? Something human that most everyone tends to experience?

btw I'm not trying to play philosophy professor here, just trying to thow around interesting questions

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

"They didn't include females antagonists because they didn't have enough RAM."
"Got a source on that?"
"Yeah. Druckmann: We didn't have enough RAM to include female antagonists."
"I don't believe you."

I'm not sure there's any reasonable way for anyone to convince you that it was a technical limitation because you are set on believing that it wasn't one.

He doesn't even know how animations and RAM work so he decided in his head that Druckmann said "it's impossible to animate".

 

[Laughing Banana]

"They didn't include females antagonists because they didn't have enough RAM."
"Got a source on that?"
"Yeah. Druckmann: We didn't have enough RAM to include female antagonists."
"I don't believe you."

I'm not sure there's any reasonable way for anyone to convince you that it was a technical limitation because you are set on believing that it wasn't one. And what leads you to believe that I'm offended? I was just dumbfounded by that comment chain.

He doesn't even know how animations and RAM work so he decided in his head that Druckmann said "it's impossible to animate".

Okay okay okay you guys won I conceded the point.

I mean is that scene at the end of TLOU1 really more about good/evil, or is it possible one of the themes in TLOU might be asking whether or not there could be an enigmatic quality of love being both sefish and unselfish sometimes? Something human that most everyone tends to experience?

btw I'm not trying to play philosophy professor here, just trying to ask interesting questions

It's more of a, "Love and fear of loss can compel you to do utterly selfish and yes, possibly evil things as well." It's not that I don't understand why Joel did what he did, but for me I don't really view his actions as something that is filled with pure noble intentions as well.

 

[TheStruggler]

That actually sounds good. Breaking body parts and strategically going for the leg first and all that but that would require a dodge/counter button.

All I want is that the default melee attacks are with her fists instead of her knife or some other weapon.

I know was just a trailer but judging from her hands being tore up you are getting fisticuffs melee combat and then some. The last of us SOMETIMES had a counter button when properly timed. Imagine strategically having to read your opponent when they are about to strike, use a hip toss or takedown because of their momentum, breaking and arm or leg then going full mount and pounding someones face in. I see her being agile, which will be different but impactful, animation wise it may look stunning incorporating the entire body with striking ability compared to just fists.

 

[zsynqx]

yes that work for uncharted, now throw in some blood and her bashing that guys head in the air conditioner? a few extra times and you have the same,thing. While I get people say Joel was just brutal etc. Imagine Ellie being way more strategic in fights by breaking body parts, snapping necks, using her agility and quickness for take downs using her whole body instead of just her upper. Animation wise I think it could be beautifully done

As long as they make it look messy, like you're still just fighting to survive.

 

[jaaz]

Nope, it's really not unreasonable to view his actions as selfish and evil. Evil in the way that he clearly prioritized his own feelings, his own well-being, above the possible salvation of humanity, above even what Ellie actually wanted--He wanted Ellie all for himself, without willing to hear what she herself wanted. He even killed Marlene in cold blood because he didn't want the safety of his selfishness to be compromised in any way.

That what makes the ending so powerful and unique, in my eyes. It's different than many other endings where good and evils are so easily defined.

Even Druckmann disagrees with you:

“One of the things that happened during production was I became a dad to a girl (it sounds weird to say it like that). One of the first ‘ah ha!’ moments I had when working on the story and structure, was when we figured out Joel’s arc. His arc is all about this irrational love he feels for this kid. He would do anything to take away her pain and definitely anything in the world save her from harm. It’s about how far this guy is willing to go to save Ellie. Clearly he’s willing to give up his life (he frankly doesn’t care much about it),” said Druckmann.

http://o.canada.com/technology/gaming/the-last-of-us-how-the-games-creator-envisions-its-ending

That sounds nothing like evilness and selfishness, unless you think parental love is just that. But we can agree to disagree I guess.

 

[TheStruggler]

As long as they make it look messy, like you're still just fighting to survive.

fighting to survive, but with a purpose. Not to kill with just the intent to kill, but kill to humiliate and maim as well

 

[Ricky_R]

I think joel's intentions were selfishly motivated. I wish people would stop telling me I'm wrong when their argument is based off how they interpreted his actions also.

To me....to me the ending changed how I viewed their relationship. He chose to protect himself instead of tell ellie the truth. I also think, since hate is the theme in the second, his decision will have ramifications.

Despite whatever he felt about ellie, he made decisions that benefited himself over her numerous times. That goes for when he tried to dump her. That goes for the ending.

I'll stick with this thought until the second shows me their relationship is just fine.

Of course he was selfish, that's the whole point. He didn't want to go through the same loss again, but he definitely cared about her at that point which is why he wanted to ditch her. He wanted to protect himself, but didn't want to lose her which is why he recapacitated soon enough because he knew she would be safer by his side.

It was then when he finally opened up. His selfishness then was fueled by Ellie and her well being. So, if your argument is that Joel is selfish, then yeah, that much is obvious, but if it's to the point that he actually didn't care about her at all then I'll just disagree.

Also, his decision in the end benefited both. After all they went through, the least Ellie deserved was a chance to decide. He did what he did for both, like any caring parent would. I know I would if it was my daughter, without any hesitation.

 

[Naudi]

So we're gonna make the only likable character in the first game completely unlikable like Joel in the second?

Psh...Joel was awesome.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Even Druckmann disagrees with you:

“One of the things that happened during production was I became a dad to a girl (it sounds weird to say it like that). One of the first ‘ah ha!’ moments I had when working on the story and structure, was when we figured out Joel’s arc. His arc is all about this irrational love he feels for this kid. He would do anything to take away her pain and definitely anything in the world save her from harm. It’s about how far this guy is willing to go to save Ellie. Clearly he’s willing to give up his life (he frankly doesn’t care much about it),” said Druckmann.

http://o.canada.com/technology/gaming/the-last-of-us-how-the-games-creator-envisions-its-ending

That sounds nothing like evilness and selfishness, unless you think parental love is just that. But we can agree to disagree I guess.

On the risk of being called on by some due to me disagreeing again with Druckmann again, hahaha, I just want to say that my interpretation does not really clash with he said in here.

If you notice, even he called it "irrational" love, so it's not really far-fetched to say that in order to satisfy that irrational love, he's willing to do whatever it takes, even if it meant disregarding what is possibly best for the world, what Ellie truly wanted, or worse, lying directly to her face.

Also, it's not that I do not understand how the things that Joel had done was motivated by his parental love--I did not question his love for Ellie, I merely questioned the acts that he pulled off because of that love. Like I said, it's how love can compel you to do questionable things, beyond all reasoning, beyond any rational thoughts.

It's a great ending precisely because it can spark discussion like this.

 

[Xe4]

Speaking of women enimies, I wonder what the reaction to the E3 demo would've been if the final shotgun blast to the face being of a woman rather than a man.

Women still are held to double standards, including being antagonists. Is the reason they were not included the animation? Maybe, but I think there's a broader discussion tone had about violence against women I'm video games and societies reaction to it.