Beerman462
Member
That's my point though. Some people can appreciate it, but in general the samples on the SNES, especially orchestral tracks would sway most unbiased people.
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SNES vs Genesis Sound
- Thread starter Beerman462
- Start date
That's my point though. Some people can appreciate it, but in general the samples on the SNES, especially orchestral tracks would sway most unbiased people.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Well the SNES chip is objectively better
It doesn't help that the only people that could make the Genesis chip work were Sega themselves.
Beerman462
Member
Yeah, synth is a great component and can in some applications be great for an entire soundtrack.
The SNES chip is way more flexible and provided a better overall sound.
Mind telling us the objective measure by which you determined that?
It doesn't help your point to make things up. Tons of genesis games have technically sound and well composed music.
TriAceJP
Member
I'd go as far to say Konami did better than Sega.
Sir Abacus
Member
Oh come on. I was a Genesis fanboy as a kid but number of voices, bit-depth, sample rate, sound memory, DSP effects. SPC700 beats the YM2612 into the ground.
Except the genesis has plenty of sound ram, more voices, and a higher sample rate (iirc at least, can't find info to confirm atm)
Since they both could do things that the other couldn't (especially at the time), neither is "objectively superior".
Sir Abacus
Member
6 voices, one had to be dropped for PCM (i.e. ring sound can cause sound channels to drop from music in Sonic 3) plus an LFO while SNES had straight up 8 PCM voices. 8KB sound RAM vs 32KB on the SPC and 22KHz PCM on the Genesis vs 32KHz output on the SNES.
Come on. The SNES was a wavetable synth while the Genesis was an OPN2. There's really no comparison.
One is objectively superior if your definition of "objective" is "biased".
If you were such a segaboy you should that the genesis can in fact output more channels at once than the SNES, or that its sample rate can be set to 44khz while the SNES is locked to 32khz, among other things. Surely someone more knowledgeable than me can expand on this, if they can even be bothered.
I see your Phantasy Star 2 and raise with Phantasy Star 4:
Meet them Head On
Motavia Town
In the Cave (secretly one of the best dungeon tracks ever)
Probably the cleanest sounding game on the Genesis at times and the grittiest at others (if we ignore Hard Corps)
9-10 channels, not counting the possible 3 additional software mixed (on the z80) pcm channels.
edit - actually I forgot you can split channel 3 into more channels too.
Does that make the Konami SCC and namco 163 automatically superior too?
Laevateinn
Member
PCM doesn't automatically make something great unless it's used well. Having more memory, 24-bit capability and a 44 KHz sample rate would also help. I doubt the SNES could accurately simulate an FM chip because of that.
I have the Phantasy Star Complete Album. It's literally just the music from the first four games sourced directly onto a CD. I oftentimes listen to them while I'm working. You're right, PS4's cave music is probably the best dungeon song of the entire 16-bit era.
The people who understood how to properly make FM music were otherworldly.
I have the Phantasy Star Complete Album. It's literally just the music from the first four games sourced directly onto a CD. I oftentimes listen to them while I'm working. You're right, PS4's cave music is probably the best dungeon song of the entire 16-bit era.
The people who understood how to properly make FM music were otherworldly.
Awesome and technically infeasible on SNES.
Also, I think I need to post this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgJ1C_Ka0io&feature=youtu.be
/thread
It has less voices, a lower sample rate, and even though it has more memory, given the nature of PCM having exponentially higher memory requirements, it ends up being severely more bottlenecked by it which imposes all kinds of limitations (not being able to refresh the RAM to load in different sounds during gameplay also adds an additional layer of limitations). You even need to reserve memory for the buffer if you want to utilize the reverb.
The 3 things I would actually say with certainty that are objectively better would be true stereo panning, an inherently better playback quality of samples versus the various software solutions on the Genesis, and also a cleaner less distorted output on the physical hardware DAC compared to the various Genesis models.
Dropping channels for sound effects is a reality on any system and the SNES is no exception. I don't know why the Genesis tends to get singled out in that discussion. And the ring sound is FM, not PCM.
In hindsight the SNES sound feels to me more or less like Video CDs (those discs with 320x224 MPEG-1 video that preceded DVD).
They were one of the first glimpses of modern technologies, and they really stood out at the time. But nowadays with the same technology matured its limitations show in a big way.
Genesis sound would be more like a 70's film. It shows its age surely, but has not such burdens (of being a nascent technology) and so looks much better in our current 4K displays...
They were one of the first glimpses of modern technologies, and they really stood out at the time. But nowadays with the same technology matured its limitations show in a big way.
Genesis sound would be more like a 70's film. It shows its age surely, but has not such burdens (of being a nascent technology) and so looks much better in our current 4K displays...
Excellent OST.
Thanks for posting.
Both SNES and Mega Drive soundchip had downsides, in the case of MD often are presented high pitch notes.
I posted that song because the composition is actually good.
I think that more than SNES vs Mega Drive debate, it should be a debate about good composers/sound drivers vs bad composers/sound drivers.
Some more combat cars, zero wing and elemental master.
Delicate ear warning. A bit harsh for the first ~50 seconds.
Combat cars ending
Elemental Master stage 3
Zero Wing stage 2
Zero Wing stage 3
Delicate ear warning. A bit harsh for the first ~50 seconds.
Combat cars ending
Elemental Master stage 3
Zero Wing stage 2
Zero Wing stage 3
cireza
Member
Langrisser 1 and 2 have amazing musics.
petran79
Banned
MegaDrive had the advantage that it arrived earlier in Europe and USA, compared to the SNES. So Western composers who were active in the 8-16bit computer and demo scene were more experienced with MegaDrive. I'd say for Western games and ports, the MegaDrive is superior. When the SNES arrived in the West, Western video game music began to shift to computer sound cards and CD-ROM multimedia.
Regarding Japanese games, SNES Japanese composers were already one year ahead. But for Western games and ports done by Western developers, I'd pick the MegaDrive.
TheBanditKing
Member
Loved both consoles but the SNES and that Sony sound chip produced way better sound
again, subjective. There are a TON of snes games that sound like shit with shitty sounding reverb and fake guitar/trumpet sounds.
Laevateinn
Member
This thread makes me feel like Hiroo Onoda.
MrCunningham
Member
Looking this up.... Warsong uses the 'Cube/Dougen Shibuya' audio driver and it gives the Genesis some nice sound.
This sound driver was also used in Ranger-X, Shining Force, Shining Force II, Shining in the Darkness, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, Galaxy Force II, The Steel Empire, Gleylancer, Wings of Wor,Ys III: Wanderers from Ys, Zero Wing, Crusader of Centy and a few others. A lot of those listed games had stellar sounding soundtracks.
natsuyasumi
Member
Hmm, didn't do much for me. My go-to suggestion would be Jjji from Sword of Vermilion, a ho-hum game with a fantastic soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuADc6vhf_c
Dungeon 1 is good too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5IKe_GpigQ
On the SNES side I love the FF4 cave theme Into the Darkness, which at the time reminded me of a track from the just-released Addams Family movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4pxjV4p9BI
Again it depend on the composer/sound programmer skills.
Some of the top music on SNES was done by non-japanese developers.
Being released two years before the SNES, MD reached full potential earlier than SNES but that's natural.
EDIT:
Since I'm at it, here another song rarely posted:
Cool World (SNES) - Title screen
ElectricThunder
Member
Though I have scarcely began to scratch the surface as it could likely fill another topic entirely should more folks have A List as per the SNES vs Gen from ample exposure, another thing worth bearing in mind is the Genesis served as a global vanguard of sorts to the tech and artistic styling at their most regionally niche at most prior times as the tech found legs(Even Koshiro continued/s to avail of the aged magic)---the somewhat sworn Family Tree, as it were, was STRONG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3Cft_Qjfw&feature=youtu.be
I mean, that's just damn good and precious few people in the world even know of it being a thing, let alone among the folks it would really resonate with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM3Cft_Qjfw&feature=youtu.be
I mean, that's just damn good and precious few people in the world even know of it being a thing, let alone among the folks it would really resonate with.
Blatant lie.
VARIA
Member
One of my favorites from back in the day.
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
News sound drivers allow 4 simultaneous PCM channels for Genesis and some stunning stuff is now avaliable for future homebrews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdL8fJH2mic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Irng8PTEws&t=66s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--NG7IIxcs&t=354s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdL8fJH2mic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Irng8PTEws&t=66s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--NG7IIxcs&t=354s
Are they actually recorded from a Genesis, or just a VST intended to emulate one?
I wonder if they'll play in VGM players... or I can somehow use my Everdrive to play them.
ss_lemonade
Member
The way I saw things before, the SNES had a more epic feel when it came to sounds/music. The Genesis on the other hand sounds more like videogame music. I do like the Genesis' Mega Turrican level 1 music better than the SNES equivalent.
Dat Chris Huelsbeck. That sweet, sweet FM lead.
Well that's just stupid impressive if it's done by real hardware.
Well that's just stupid impressive if it's done by real hardware.
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
Yep! This tracks are from this homebrew project
https://forums.sonicretro.org/?showtopic=34835
Download and play via everdrive on real hardware.
I've played the rom in an emulator, and this is on real (PAL) hardware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkcY0DQXOT0
Which sounds better is subjective, but as far as which has a more advanced sound chip I always thought it was clear SNES was stronger?
And if it hasn't been debunked we always have this to show what SNES could have been capable of if not for the space limitation on the cartridges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v788KslHvbU
Or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_60V8UdYEY
And if it hasn't been debunked we always have this to show what SNES could have been capable of if not for the space limitation on the cartridges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v788KslHvbU
Or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_60V8UdYEY
Laevateinn
Member
This is brilliant. I can't wait to play this on Friday while I "work from home"
The Genesis uses an FM synthesizer for the majority of it's audio. It's really difficult to compare apples and oranges to the SNES because they are completely different beasts. The analog FM channels on the Genesis are technically superior to the digital PCM channels on the SNES but it was really up to the programmer to be able to take advantage of it.
Both are completely digital. Analog would be if there wasn't any binary computation involved in the generation of sound. In fact, analog FM synthesis wouldn't even be practical because of the frequency precision needed for modulating, and analog synthesis goes out of tune.
Laevateinn
Member
Looks like I was remembering incorrectly. FM can be done analog but isn't in practice. Still, the method of making sound is completely different and difficult to compare. PCM is nice because it's easier to work with.
Edit: To expand.
You can get any type of sound you want on a PCM chip provided it fits into the technical limitations. On the SNES that would be 16-bit 32-KHz sample rate.
On the Genesis, you need to think a little bit on how to produce that sound using the FM synthesizer. You also need to be able to program the Z80 to drive the FM chip. This is a different architecture and runs in parallel to the M68000 main CPU. Overall, it's a challenge for the developer. It doesn't help that Sega shipped out shoddy Z80 sound driver code to third parties.
The case for the innate flexibility of PCM sampling falls apart when you take the memory into account. Practically the whole creative process is defined by what you are allowed to do within 64kb. Everything from how many instruments you can have in a given song, how good they sound, how much you need to sacrifice to fit in voice clips or dedicated SFX samples, etc etc. There are so many caveats to keep in mind for your creative vision and I think people seriously underestimate how hard it was to work with, when they keep saying that it was easier to handle.
I had no idea there was essentially a Streets of Rage 4 soundrack I'd never heard.
It's Super Adventure Island on SNES. By Yuzo Koshiro.
'Yeah, I guess the beginning sounds a bit like Streets of Rage'
Skips ahead
'Huh.'
Skips ahead
HUH.
Is that a huh of agreement?
That's not really the same thing though. The snes is not producing those sounds, it's just it's sound chip playing back digital audio, which it could do if it had the memory to do so. Even the nes sound chip could do this technically. The above examples with the genesis HomeBrew sonic are actually generated by the sound chip.