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Resident Evil 2 Remake 'progressing'; RE 6 feedback being 'taken on board'

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S

StrongBelwas

Banned
I just hope it's similar to Remake as in the core of the game is the same with little tweaks like defensive weapons etc. Occasionally messing with player expectations like with the dog window in Remake. As well as expanding some bits. Maybe make Chief Irons villain role meatier. And expanding Hunks campaign is a no brainer.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
samsveds said:
My opinion is that classic RE don't need fixing. The aiming works fine as it's mostly automated. It should function exactly as, for example, REmake. The over the shoulder is for those who can't cope with it. The modes would be separate and not switchable on the fly, two different experiences so to speak.
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So what you are suggesting is developing two different games. This is not feasible or necessary.
 
C

Chaos2Frozen

Member
I hope the right lessons were learned from RE6's criticism.

They're on the right track with Revelation 2, just make a high budget version of that but with RE6's mechanics
 
Shadax the wizard

Shadax the wizard

Member
News Bot said:
So what you are suggesting is developing two different games. This is not feasible or necessary.
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Not really, two different modes rather than games is a more accurate description as they would share the same assets. The difference in classic mode would be fixed camera angles and old school combat rules.
 
N

News Bot

Banned
samsveds said:
Not really, two different modes rather than games is a more accurate description as they would share the same assets. The difference in classic mode would be fixed camera angles and old school combat rules.
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It's not a mode when it completely changes the fundamentals of the game. It's a different game for all intents and purposes.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
At that point why even bother? People would quickly realize that a 3rd person shooter in RE2's environments and levels would really, really suck. The levels are tight corridors designed to make traversal vs ammo expenditure a compelling choice, not to have interesting designs for a shooter. Imagine RE4 if it was set in a series of linear corridors and fighting against slow as hell enemies that don't have any interesting moves because they are designed as obstacles for the classic style.

You can't have it both ways without one version playing like garbage. And if you want RE2 REmake to be a third person shooter, than you'd have to change the design of the game so much that it wouldn't even be RE2 anymore so what would the point even be. Clearly people who are opposed to RE2 REmake as it's going to be made don't even want a RE2 REmake in the first place.
 
Shadax the wizard

Shadax the wizard

Member
Fancy Clown said:
At that point why even bother? People would quickly realize that a 3rd person shooter in RE2's environments and levels would really, really suck. The levels are tight corridors designed to make traversal vs ammo expenditure a compelling choice, not to have interesting designs for a shooter. Imagine RE4 if it was set in a series of linear corridors and fighting against slow as hell enemies that don't have any interesting moves because they are designed as obstacles for the classic style.

You can't have it both ways without one version playing like garbage. And if you want RE2 REmake to be a third person shooter, than you'd have to change the design of the game so much that it wouldn't even be RE2 anymore so what would the point even be. Clearly people who are opposed to RE2 REmake as it's going to be made don't even want a RE2 REmake in the first place.
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Here's hoping they'll do it proper like REmake if it's just one or the other.
 
N

Nerrel

Member
encephalon said:
If Capcom isn't capable of pulling off horror without fixed camera angles, they're not capable with them. I don't see Code Veronica as an effective horror title, despite its adherence to the series' traditions. Moreover, the problems related to the Revelations titles aren't due to the camera.
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If they stick with fixed cameras, they have the original gameplay as a template to follow. They essentially have a guide to how to do the game the right way. If they go over the shoulder, they'd have to redo everything anew, which is where the risk comes in. I have enough faith in Capcom to work off the original game and keep it similar. I don't have faith in them to come up with entirely new gameplay.

There was nothing preventing you from aiming from afar within Resident Evil 2. In fact, auto aim made it more or less a sure hit, whereas with a free aiming system, you would actually have to aim at the dogs that weave around the hallways.
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You had to be able to see the enemies in order to effectively shoot them, which is the major problem with sniping from afar in RE2. You can take some blind shots from a distance, but you don't know whether the dog you're shooting is down on the ground or still standing. You're liable to waste ammo by shooting over a downed dog or a licker, which is a fair risk to deal with in a survival horror game. The lickers in particular don't really give you any option but to aim down at close range, unless you hit them in mid-leap with a shotgun blast. Being able to freely target a licker on the floor, walls or ceiling from any range is a major difference. You would not approach the combat with the same sense of strategy and positioning at all.

Also, when you see the enemy is important to consider. In RE2, you have to move to the screen where the enemy is visible before you can run away, meaning that even if you do manage to turn around and snipe, you're liable to get into close proximity with an enemy before you attack them. With over the shoulder, you could see and shoot the enemy from afar without ever approaching them.

But that doesn't mean that a similar sense of tension cannot exist within a remade RE2. Enemy movement can be modified. The range and accuracy of heavy weapons can be limited (shotgun, grenade launcher, etc). Level design can be modified to force you to come into close contact with dangerous enemies, such as lickers. And new reasons for tension in combat can be created. Which can be part of the reason for excitement as well. With creativity and clever game design, RE2 has the potential to be even better (and hopefully more challenging).
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This is exactly what I was talking about before. This would not be RE2. It would be a new game that would reuse the same scenario. I don't want that, and I'm sure many fans feel the same way. If you're excited about getting a new game out of RE2, just be excited for an actual new game instead. RE2 is a masterpiece and that's why we're even discussing a remake right now. It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing, and it doesn't need to become something else. It just needs the same update REmake got to make it immersive by modern standards.

As long as Capcom is capable of remaining true to the spirit of the original game, I think it has the potential to turn out okay.
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This won't happen if they do what you mentioned above. It will not play or feel the same way.
*I have not played RE5 or RE6, as the new direction the series took has not interested me.
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I'm kind of baffled as to why you're such a proponent of the over the shoulder cam then, but let me fill you in on a big part of my argument. With over the shoulder, the usual destination is "more enemies." It's much easier and faster to work through your opponents and Capcom's go-to response is to increase the enemy count. RE4 and 5 had numerous sections where enemies were pouring in and swarming you, and that level of inundation was needed because fighting just one or two enemies was a pretty unintimidating task. RE6 took this to an extreme by having the game pretty much flooded with enemies everywhere, all of the time.

This is what happened with lickers in RE5. You didn't fight one or two at a time. You fought a swarm of them, dozens upon dozens at once.
Resident-Evil-5-RE5-Wallpaper-1080p-04-Licker-horde-bunch.png


RE2 didn't need to have more than a single licker to intimidate you. You never fought more than two at once, and even that was a nightmare to deal with. Over the shoulder ended up devaluing these enemies in RE5, to the point where they needed to swarm you with them to make them a threat. That's how much of a difference free aim and clear visibility make.

As you said, they can alter the game heavily to make it challenging with an over the shoulder camera, but why? Why do this? What is the need for it when the game still plays perfectly well as it is and as it was designed? Why should Capcom scrap the original gameplay and replace it with a different play style? Why try to get the same gameplay to work in a different viewpoint when it already works in the viewpoint it was designed for? Are the advantages of the over the shoulder style really that necessary here, or even well suited to what RE2 was about?


samsveds said:
I tried ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Was it something in particular you were thinking about?
Click to expand...

If they're going to have it both ways, the original gameplay needs to be the focus. After that's done, then they can put in an option over the shoulder mode for those who don't like tank controls, but it needs to be the afterthought, not the classic fixed camera mode. If they design the enemies and environments around over the shoulder, I don't have much confidence that it will play well in fixed camera.

I think that it would be better to take a fixed camera game, designed for that kind of navigation and combat, and make it play with over the shoulder than it would be the other way around. Fixed camera really requires the environments and enemy placements to be designed around that kind of mobility. Over the shoulder, not so much. It would still work with the fixed camera layouts and enemies. It just may not be that challenging.
 
E

encephalon

Member
Nerrel said:
If they stick with fixed cameras, they have the original gameplay as a template to follow. They essentially have a guide to how to do the game the right way. If they go over the shoulder, they'd have to redo everything anew, which is where the risk comes in. I have enough faith in Capcom to work off the original game and keep it similar. I don't have faith in them to come up with entirely new gameplay.


You had to be able to see the enemies in order to effectively shoot them, which is the major problem with sniping from afar in RE2. You can take some blind shots from a distance, but you don't know whether the dog you're shooting is down on the ground or still standing. You're liable to waste ammo by shooting over a downed dog or a licker, which is a fair risk to deal with in a survival horror game. The lickers in particular don't really give you any option but to aim down at close range, unless you hit them in mid-leap with a shotgun blast. Being able to freely target a licker on the floor, walls or ceiling from any range is a major difference. You would not approach the combat with the same sense of strategy and positioning at all.

Also, when you see the enemy is important to consider. In RE2, you have to move to the screen where the enemy is visible before you can run away, meaning that even if you do manage to turn around and snipe, you're liable to get into close proximity with an enemy before you attack them. With over the shoulder, you could see and shoot the enemy from afar without ever approaching them.


This is exactly what I was talking about before. This would not be RE2. It would be a new game that would reuse the same scenario. I don't want that, and I'm sure many fans feel the same way. If you're excited about getting a new game out of RE2, just be excited for an actual new game instead. RE2 is a masterpiece and that's why we're even discussing a remake right now. It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing, and it doesn't need to become something else. It just needs the same update REmake got to make it immersive by modern standards.


This won't happen if they do what you mentioned above. It will not play or feel the same way.


I'm kind of baffled as to why you're such a proponent of the over the shoulder cam then, but let me fill you in on a big part of my argument. With over the shoulder, the usual destination is "more enemies." It's much easier and faster to work through your opponents and Capcom's go-to response is to increase the enemy count. RE4 and 5 had numerous sections where enemies were pouring in and swarming you, and that level of inundation was needed because fighting just one or two enemies was a pretty unintimidating task. RE6 took this to an extreme by having the game pretty much flooded with enemies everywhere, all of the time.

This is what happened with lickers in RE5. You didn't fight one or two at a time. You fought a swarm of them, dozens upon dozens at once.
Resident-Evil-5-RE5-Wallpaper-1080p-04-Licker-horde-bunch.png


RE2 didn't need to have more than a single licker to intimidate you. You never fought more than two at once, and even that was a nightmare to deal with. Over the shoulder ended up devaluing these enemies in RE5, to the point where they needed to swarm you with them to make them a threat. That's how much of a difference free aim and clear visibility make.

As you said, they can alter the game heavily to make it challenging with an over the shoulder camera, but why? Why do this? What is the need for it when the game still plays perfectly well as it is and as it was designed? Why should Capcom scrap the original gameplay and replace it with a different play style? Why try to get the same gameplay to work in a different viewpoint when it already works in the viewpoint it was designed for? Are the advantages of the over the shoulder style really that necessary here, or even well suited to what RE2 was about?




If they're going to have it both ways, the original gameplay needs to be the focus. After that's done, then they can put in an option over the shoulder mode for those who don't like tank controls, but it needs to be the afterthought, not the classic fixed camera mode. If they design the enemies and environments around over the shoulder, I don't have much confidence that it will play well in fixed camera.

I think that it would be better to take a fixed camera game, designed for that kind of navigation and combat, and make it play with over the shoulder than it would be the other way around. Fixed camera really requires the environments and enemy placements to be designed around that kind of mobility. Over the shoulder, not so much. It would still work with the fixed camera layouts and enemies. It just may not be that challenging.
Click to expand...

What you're suggesting is so incredibly conservative, that even the REmake would be considered sacrilege within that framework. Locations are going to be alerted, puzzles changed, enemies modified. All of these things happened on the acclaimed GameCube remake of the original and the game was better for it. I am a big fan of resident evil 2, but no, it isn't perfect. There is room for improvement. Notably, difficulty should be raised, resources made more limited. Enemies can be more compelling than those designed in 1998 on PS1 hardware.

You're missing the reason why RE4 and RE5 are the way they are. It's not because they changed the camera. It's because they were designed as full action games and were designed entirely around taking on hoards of enemies, not because the camera suddenly made it necessary.

I'm not a "proponent" of beind the back camera, I'm merely suggesting it's not game over if it has one. Be more imaginative. I just don't agree that you can't make a game true the spirit of RE2's original gameplay without fixed angles. Even though I really appreciate what they offer the game in terms of atmosphere.

I'm going to echo the sentiment that it's not possible to design the game with two camera modes in mind.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
artsi said:
S.T.A.R.S. office from RE2, but why, what's the source?
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To be honest it kind of looks like the kind of thing someone makes and puts it online to trigger fever about a remake (falsely). However, as the remake has been announced it's probably leaked and been uploaded somewhere.
 
LUXURY

LUXURY

Member
Resident Evil 2 should never be used in the same sentence as Resident Evil 6. When those two are said together I get so nervous.
 
H

How About No

Member
Working on the GameCube remake of the original was an "incredible learning experience," Hirabayashi adds, with last year's HD remaster offering the team "a chance to go over the remake and check every single thing in it - not just the audio-visual assets, but the programming code for each stage, and analysing the pacing that makes it such a great experience.
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hype hype hype...wait this is an old thread

I was wondering why RE6 was brought up so much and not RE7

Silent Hill said:
5208DJA.jpg
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sauce plz?

Is this an official render?

Actually looking at the RE2 version it's almost a 1:1 recreation (down to the paper on the floor) so I have my doubts it's official
 
Randomizer

Randomizer

Member
Jawmuncher said:
This is giving me more questions than answers. Regardless I think RE2make being in the vein of REmake is what is best. While a mainline game (RE7) should take the combat ideas from RE6 while dialing things back for better tone/atmosphere and more tense moments.
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So basically you wanted Resident Evil 4 with the more modern combat system of RE6? I'm fine with that but RE7 tried something different and was also great. Although a little on the easy/ short side for my liking. It still could have passed as a side story or spin off but it's such a high quality product that it really needed the budget and talent of a mainline entry. Either way both styles can and should coexist in some way.

Edit: just realised this thread is almost a year old.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Silent Hill is just salty Resident Evil is returning to its roots

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

RIP Silent Hill </3 FU Konami
 
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