Maxey
Member
Personally I'd love to play a faithful remake of RE2 with modern visuals and improved mechanics.
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Resident Evil 2 Remake 'progressing'; RE 6 feedback being 'taken on board'
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
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Personally I'd love to play a faithful remake of RE2 with modern visuals and improved mechanics.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I think it would be cool if it RE2:R was fully 3D with static cameras (that sometimes pan around of course) like Code Veronica.
Also please add in an option after you beat the game to skip door animations if you have them please!
Also please add in an option after you beat the game to skip door animations if you have them please!
REmake was made in 2002, that style of game design was still relevant. So of course the game was still like that, but games aren't designed like that anymore.
Pilgrimzero
Member
It's going to be co op able. Both Leon and Claire's stories combined into one. Much like 5 and 6.
If you expect it to not be more of the modern type, you will be disappointed.
And I say this as a fan old the old games, and RE2 being my fave Capcom isn't going to just ritz up the old game like REMake. It will be more like Leon's campaign in 6.
And hey if I'm wrong then it will be a nice surprise.
If you expect it to not be more of the modern type, you will be disappointed.
And I say this as a fan old the old games, and RE2 being my fave Capcom isn't going to just ritz up the old game like REMake. It will be more like Leon's campaign in 6.
And hey if I'm wrong then it will be a nice surprise.
Neff
Member
REmake is one of the most celebrated videogame remakes, if not the most celebrated, and it did this by giving the game a huge facelift and rearranging/adding content. But crucially, it didn't enforce any radical changes. As a result, it felt like a new game, but familiar enough to evoke the thrill of playing the original for the first time. That's what RE2make should aspire to.
I'm sure that style is still relevant since the REmake remaster sold pretty good.
This would be fine, and I suspect is what they'll do rather than attempt to go pre-render crazy.
I admit I would love a pre-rendered game, though.
And? Just because that style isn't totally mainstream anymore doesn't mean that it isn't worth revisiting. REmake clearly sold well enough to give Capcom confidence enough to re-examine that style. Plus with indies and kickstarters doing there thing I think its pretty silly to suggest past styles/genres should stay dead just because of gaming modernization.
Heck, this games success could make this style of horror game viable again. You may not like that but that doesn't mean it doesn't have the right to exist.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I think a lot of people who think RE2 REmake is going to be a co-op dudebro shooter don't realize that's more expensive to make than an old-school, fixed camera angle horror game.
Pay attention to how Capcom advertises its titles. When it's making a bigger budget effort, they will do more marketing for it, IE TV commercials, marketing twists, usually they have ad campaigns (RE5, RE6, Operation Raccoon City all did, most famously 'Fear we can't forget,' and 'No Hope.'). And it works, those titles sold all incredibly well, and they needed too, they were more expensive endeavors.
Now pay attention to how Capcom advertises REmake 2, and in extension, REmake HD and Zero HD. They announce them months in advance, talk more about how it's for the fans, much lower budget projects with much more modest team sizes, and as a result, not much money put into marketing; more rely on word of mouth to help them spread from old-school fans and media press on the name of the game. That's because the titles won't appeal to a mass audience, and so keep costs low to make profit back.
Old-School Horror Games don't need huge budgets or teams. RE2 REmake, if it's good as such, will sell on the existed popularity of RE and RE2. REmake HD did better than Capcom expected, thus this project came into existence. And they are advertising it like they should advertise it.
I know the proof is in the pudding, but if this were some dudebro co-op shooter, those are FAR more expensive to make, and would be 5x the budget (at least) of an old-school fixed camera horror game. Because they're modestly doing a 'fan campaign', that does imply the project isn't the hugest funded; they're meeting with fan game creators, talking about it on social feeds, and more humble small-time marketing that's more in-line with how an indie studio would try to market their title. That does speak to the budget they're probably working with, and I doubt they're making a co-op dudebro shooter with that budget.
Pay attention to how Capcom advertises its titles. When it's making a bigger budget effort, they will do more marketing for it, IE TV commercials, marketing twists, usually they have ad campaigns (RE5, RE6, Operation Raccoon City all did, most famously 'Fear we can't forget,' and 'No Hope.'). And it works, those titles sold all incredibly well, and they needed too, they were more expensive endeavors.
Now pay attention to how Capcom advertises REmake 2, and in extension, REmake HD and Zero HD. They announce them months in advance, talk more about how it's for the fans, much lower budget projects with much more modest team sizes, and as a result, not much money put into marketing; more rely on word of mouth to help them spread from old-school fans and media press on the name of the game. That's because the titles won't appeal to a mass audience, and so keep costs low to make profit back.
Old-School Horror Games don't need huge budgets or teams. RE2 REmake, if it's good as such, will sell on the existed popularity of RE and RE2. REmake HD did better than Capcom expected, thus this project came into existence. And they are advertising it like they should advertise it.
I know the proof is in the pudding, but if this were some dudebro co-op shooter, those are FAR more expensive to make, and would be 5x the budget (at least) of an old-school fixed camera horror game. Because they're modestly doing a 'fan campaign', that does imply the project isn't the hugest funded; they're meeting with fan game creators, talking about it on social feeds, and more humble small-time marketing that's more in-line with how an indie studio would try to market their title. That does speak to the budget they're probably working with, and I doubt they're making a co-op dudebro shooter with that budget.
Well they best treat it like an indie or an HD re-release then. Release the game at a budget price and with modest sales expectations. I was fully expecting Capcom to go big budget main entry levels with this game, but maybe they are going Revelations 2's route.
As Dusk Golem says above this post everything we've seen so far seems to indicate as much.
legacyzero
Banned
I just want a new RE2 to play like RE4. Take my fucking money.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Is there some personal disdain you have for old-school survival-horror games or something? I like you Kyle, I've enjoyed talking with you in modern RE topics, but the whole, "Well they BETTER," almost makes it seem like it's somehow personally effecting you if RE2 appeals to people who liked RE2. There will be more modern RE games obviously, and as a fan of both, I can appreciate both sides. But I guess it just seems kind of weird you feel an old-school horror game must be lesser than something else.
Napalm_Frank
Member
They are gonna fuck it up. I know it in my bones.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
That trailer was pretty scary & atmospheric IIRC, I loved what they were saying about making daylight scary and being blinded by the sun etc. They obviously jettisoned all of this when they decided to make it a co-op shooter.
SolidSnakex
Member
Until Dawn is a fantastic recent example of why fixed cameras work so well in horror games
Those are all from gameplay and not cutscenes. The atmosphere that you can create with well placed fixed camera angles simply can't be touched with some behind the back cam.
Those are all from gameplay and not cutscenes. The atmosphere that you can create with well placed fixed camera angles simply can't be touched with some behind the back cam.
No, I have nothing against the old-school REs. They're great. I am sorry if my responses in this discussion has made it seem like I'm just some grumpy "Well, that's not what I want so it's stupid!" shit. How the old games were made at the time worked, and they were great for it. But I just strongly don't believe those designs work today, and I don't think Capcom does either. That's why they were pushing for difference during RE4's troubled development.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
That's okay, sometimes things don't send through text, why I was asking. It's all good. I think old-school horror has a place, just not for the mainstream audience. But I think it can sell decent numbers if budgeted and targeted right. Ironically the best selling old-school horror game was RE2, which sold close to 5 million copies. So if there's any old-school horror game to try and ride on nostalgia value, it'd be RE2.
ArkkAngel007
Member
The classic styling didn't suffer necessarily from "archaic" design.
First, the series was getting a bit stale in what it was offering. We had two Raccoon City games, and then the next one had another mansion and regressed in the minor gameplay advancements from Nemesis.
Then the series had to deal with it's next two installments (REMAKE and Zero) on a suffering system whose shaped demographic was the furthest from who the games targeted. Zero was in yet another mansion and too close to REMAKE. On the other end, the Outbreak spinoff was once again in Raccoon City.
All the while it's sister series Dino Crisis was advancing it's gameplay greatly and Silent Hill was getting critical success with it's story approach.
Fixed camera angles isn't poor design. It's what has been done with it as the series progressed that was.
Now, something that could be done is a hybrid design, but I haven't played anything that utilizes such design to gauge how well it would work. It was one of the design approaches in proto-RE4, so it has been considered before.
Fixed angles allow for a cinematic approach without the glamour of modern cinematic approaches. Enemies such as those in RE can be set off screen or in a way that allows them to enter in an organic fashion rather than out of random doorways or cargo containers. Scares and reveals can happen on screen without pulling control or focus away from the player. It also allows for a tremendous amount of flexibility in approaching puzzles and exploration.
The place where it suffered obviously was combat, regulated generally to auto aiming a weapon with 3 vertical options while standing still. However, with dual analog controls this no longer needs to be the case. Moving and shooting can happen, but that isn't really a necessity for the tight corridors and meticulous approach. Rather, being able to flexibly aim in the same space on all planes rather than preset angles would further things greatly. Both should be possible though.
First person, isometric, third person, over the shoulder, and fixed camera angles have all had good and bad games, hill and valley periods, that have nothing to do with the viewpoint. It's what the devs do with it that speaks to the quality.
It also wouldn't hurt if Capcom actually markets REMAKE2 in a similar scale as RE5 and 6. Few third party and even first party titles receive such, and those games and other similar efforts such as Destiny and The Division show how much that matters.
CadetMahoney
Member
they should do 2 and 3 at the same time.
AuthenticM
Member
Until Dawn is a fantastic recent example of why fixed cameras work so well in horror games
Those are all from gameplay and not cutscenes. The atmosphere that you can create with well placed fixed camera angles simply can't be touched with some behind the back cam.
Seriously. This a million times.
Thread over. Everyone at Capcom go ho--
-- *record scratch* Thread not over. Everyone at Capcom come on back.
You see that second bit? Don't listen to it. Go back to Bio1-3's style, okay? Okay.
Now you can go home and get back to work on Bio2 HD.
KingHenrik30
Member
Is there any way this is released this year or this is definitely a 2017 game right?
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
It is probably going to be 2017, BUT it's not impossible for it to be 2016. The project was announced to be in development last August, so it's been 8 months since it was announced. REmake, the original for Gamecube, took 13-14 months to make from conceptualization to release with a medium-small team (the credits for REmake aren't that long). Old-School horror games weren't that time consuming to make compared to other 3D games for a few reasons; a lot of the older RE games took longer since they'd get partial builds finished for a version of the game, then scrap it and start all over (most infamously for RE2). So it is possible this could release late 2016, but early/mid 2017 is more likely.
Yup, my point exactly.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Shifty
Member
Thing thing that sticks out to me is them taking feedback from RE6 and applying it to RE2make.
'Make it more horror and less action' doesn't really apply given the source material, and neither does 'fix the shit pacing and encounter design'.
Pre-rendered would cost more art time due to the increase in environment quality, whereas real-time 3D would cost more code time due to increased implementation complexity and optimization time.
That said, some degree of high-quality asset creation is going to need to happen regardless, so 2D would probably work out cheaper.
On the point of reusable assets, you can reuse them regardless of whether you go pre-rendered or realtime. There may be some extra time required for simplifying assets if they need to go from pre-rendered super high quality to our-game-engine-can-render-this-at-60, but that's still a saving over making new ones from scratch.
I'd love to see a variant of RE2 Extreme Battle/Mercenaries that keeps the fixed camera angles and tank controls but integrates some RE6 combat mechanics. Ducks, dive-rolls, counters and such. It's an unholy fusion that I think could work.
'Make it more horror and less action' doesn't really apply given the source material, and neither does 'fix the shit pacing and encounter design'.
Pre-rendered would cost more art time due to the increase in environment quality, whereas real-time 3D would cost more code time due to increased implementation complexity and optimization time.
That said, some degree of high-quality asset creation is going to need to happen regardless, so 2D would probably work out cheaper.
On the point of reusable assets, you can reuse them regardless of whether you go pre-rendered or realtime. There may be some extra time required for simplifying assets if they need to go from pre-rendered super high quality to our-game-engine-can-render-this-at-60, but that's still a saving over making new ones from scratch.
I'd love to see a variant of RE2 Extreme Battle/Mercenaries that keeps the fixed camera angles and tank controls but integrates some RE6 combat mechanics. Ducks, dive-rolls, counters and such. It's an unholy fusion that I think could work.
God forbid people like something you don't. Going back to RE1/2 style would be such a step back for 7. RE was always moving towards action co-op, and it's reached an incredible level of awesome mechanics that could and should be fomented and allowed to shine with a better campaign than RE6's.
afternoon delight
Member
Is that a Twin Snakes avatar you're sporting Snake? *
* not meant to be taken seriously, its all vidya gamz after all.
Nowhere in RE1, 2, 3, CV, Remake or even 0 was RE moving towards action Co-Op - the whole point was that you were alone. It's a basic tenet of the horror genre. It's a horror franchise. If they wanted to make a Co-Op action romp all they had to do was change the title of the game - because that's such an effortless change in comparison to taking RE1 and somehow gradually transforming it into RE6.
I'm certainly a supporter of evolution - but the point is to evolve the core of what something was. Not remove that core and replace it with something unrecognisable. That's not an evolution.
Judging by how well the re-release of REmake did that style of game design is still relevant even now.
Capcom very much mismanaged their RE IP with moving to Ninyendo exclusively at first. REmake sold extreemly well, and still has to this day.
There's still plenty of demand to horror adventure games if they're done right, and if they push the medium forward. Cheap cash-ins obviously won't do well, but the same can be said for third person over the shoulder shooters.
Here are some better screens that illustrate how Capcom can already make gorgeous 3D detailed enviroments suited for a fixed camera type game.
Screens taken from Gaf user Antitrops
It is not.
I'm okay with Twin Snakes, tho. Don't get the hate.
The original game was supposed to be co-op and early on RE0 was as well. Capcpom is prone to reusing/revisiting ideas. (See boat outbreak scenario from the original Bio3 in Gaiden, Dead Aim and REvelations, Castle!Bio4 beats/assets in RE5/LiN, etc.)
And you can definitely see the evolution to more action based as early as RE3, with way more ammo (to the point you can make your own) and dodging mechanics. RE4 was basically RE3 from over the shoulder with melee when enemies were stunned. Even RE2 was way more arcade-y and action-y than RE1. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be classic style games, I'd love it if there were more classic style games, not just the remakes (And RE2make should definitely be classic style). But to discard all the good things from RE6 going forward would be a disservice to the series.
Spieler Eins
Member
They could do great things with a dynamic camera like CVX, which was already proven in the first minutes of Dino Crisis. Whether it is dynamic or prerendered, it just shouldn't be over-the-shoulder, nor make it a shooter by giving shooting controls. That simply can't correlate with the classic gameplay and atmosphere.
That's a redundant proposition. The cause to use a fixed camera is to use a 2D asset that will look better than any 3D asset. If the assets are 3D there's no need for the fixed camera.
In fairness I am splitting hairs slightly with my point, but RE0 was never intended to be action, and RE3 was never intended to be Co-Op. Therefore the whole idea of 'action Co-Op' as a singular concept was not something the series was headed towards for a very long time. That's what I'm saying.
The Leon/Helena campaign really should have been a separate game from the rest of RE6. By not being tied to the rest of RE6's design philosophy they could have avoided stupid garbage like overuse of QTEs, the shark or Deborah.
I'm sad we never got a classic style RE set in a snowy mountain. Something like Until Dawn meets Bloodborne's
.
Until Dawn is a fantastic recent example of why fixed cameras work so well in horror games
Those are all from gameplay and not cutscenes. The atmosphere that you can create with well placed fixed camera angles simply can't be touched with some behind the back cam.
I'm sad we never got a classic style RE set in a snowy mountain. Something like Until Dawn meets Bloodborne's
Cainhurst Castle
supernormal
Member
Until Dawn is a fantastic recent example of why fixed cameras work so well in horror games
Those are all from gameplay and not cutscenes. The atmosphere that you can create with well placed fixed camera angles simply can't be touched with some behind the back cam.
Thank you.
I think this game serves as proof that this style of fixed camera exploration is still relevant today. It was a big game and it did really well. Going through scary hallways and all the broken down interiors definitely gave me hope for a classic RE in current gen.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
That's why you stun them first.
potatohead
Member
Seeing how they singled out RE6 feedback as a source of guidance, it kind of leaves me with the feeling that this will have a free-moving camera like modern REs, but with far less emphasis on action.
Hopefully my intuition is all wrong & it ends up as fixed-perspective. RE7 will no doubt be over-the-shoulder 3D, so I'd prefer if they could accommodate both styles of play rather than just one.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
But in RE6 you can comfortably run right up and punch/kick an unstunned zombie.
GalacticAE
Member
They can work today in the same way people can appreciate megaman 9 and 10. its a formula that people just want more of and thats been missing for a long time. i consider classic RE to be another genre altogether and fundamentally different than its modern entries. your avatar reminds me of how great dq8 was and how it played off of classic design philosophies.
This is false. It's a strange guess that was based exclusively on a video showing Jill and Chris together. But this is just an NPC following the player, which actually still happens in the game, albeit briefly. The original intention was simply to have the NPC follow the player for a larger portion of the game. It was never two player. BIO2 and BIO3 use it too.
This. If you want your dumb zombie borefest, that's great, you can have it. But don't take away my dumb action explosionfest, because RE6 was hilarious and I want more.
Well, I stand corrected. At least I know for a fact that N64!Bio0 had co-op planned.
My point may not stand as it is but I could say that "the whole point was that you were alone" is not exactly accurate, but eh, ¯\_(ツ
_/¯- Status