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Multiple reports of joycon connectivity issues in Switch previews

This issue has been giving me a bit of anxiety over the last week or so.

Today, though, I turned on my PS4 for the first time in a couple months. And my DualShock 4 is refusing to connect to the system at all.

So I feel a lot better about this now.
 

Otnopolit

Member
Lol

insta98126.gif


It's kinda worrying Jeff is saying they may get easier and easier to come off, possibly leading up to the point where you're holding it and the tablet just falls off.

That's out of context, however. In context, he dropped his system on concrete and NOW the joycons act like that.
 

Skyzard

Banned
That's out of context, however. In context, he dropped his system on concrete and NOW the joycons act like that.

That's what people are hoping is the reason, they never claimed it was, or even mentioned it. https://vid.me/wnOB

It's unlikely to me that both latches had the exact same issue after a drop, but possible. Let's see, it'll be easy to verify if the latches stop working. Someone just needs to try this:

 
This issue has been giving me a bit of anxiety over the last week or so.

Today, though, I turned on my PS4 for the first time in a couple months. And my DualShock 4 is refusing to connect to the system at all.

So I feel a lot better about this now.

wow. timed perfectly for you to make this post then.
 

jts

...hate me...
So I have some AirPods. I think a few people have them so I hope they can test this as well.

They have good range and all. I mean I can even walk throughout the house with little to no issues.

However, sitting in front of my computer right using them. I cover my ears with my hands and everything goes FUBAR. The easiness of how it happens is almost shocking. Never really ran into a real world issue from it, but still there you have it.

Problem with small bluetooth devices is that they can be completely encompassed in a hand. Still, as seen from the left/right differences in the Joy-con, the problem can be minimized. Maybe better antenna placement?
 

jts

...hate me...
That's what people are hoping is the reason, they never claimed it was, or even mentioned it. https://vid.me/wnOB

It's unlikely to me that both latches had the exact same issue after a drop, but possible. Let's see, it'll be easy to verify if the latches stop working. Someone just needs to try this:
In that gif the console doesn't even slide off after both latches are released, let alone just one if it ever happens to anyone, not to mention that when people are holding the Switch they are usually also gripping the main unit (which Jeff isn't in that situation - and it still doesn't slide off).

We are just making up issues at this rate. Gonna be a long 6 days until release...
 
In the recent video Nintendo posted they specifically mentioned they used the rail system because other methods of snapping on the joy-cons was unreliable and not strong enough (they mentioned magnets). I don't think they'd release the Switch if it's already possible for them to unlock so easily after only a few days. It's gotta be a defective unit. Reminds me of the footage of this defective PSP 'shooting' out the UMD when twisting it.

DRGiSC9.gif


If all units had an issue they wouldn't release it in that state, obviously.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
More reports about this problem, this time from Europe (Belgium to be more precise):

https://twitter.com/Phazon4G/status/835627915010244608

Phazon@4Gamers.be said:
Tested all my joy cons with the Switch calibration. The ones that came with neon switch are indeed laggy or lose their signal.

the black ones, that came separately, work perfectly fine, even from the other side of my living room (10 metres away)

looks like there's something wrong with the joy cons that come with the console
 
The smart move would be to wait a little bit, maybe the problem could be patched out. If not possible, then wait for revision.

But Zelda.... Why is Nintendo making this so hard.
 
More reports about this problem, this time from Europe (Belgium to be more precise):

https://twitter.com/Phazon4G/status/835627915010244608

One of the theories is that the Joycons go into a low power BT mode when connected to the Switch, and some of them have a bug which keeps them in that same low power mode even when disconnected. This could make sense with that theory if the gray joycons they described haven't yet been physically connected to that Switch. Or if there's some other condition which causes the bug to happen.

A hardware defect in only certain joycons would be a massive problem.
 

Skyzard

Banned
One of the theories is that the Joycons go into a low power BT mode when connected to the Switch, and some of them have a bug which keeps them in that same low power mode even when disconnected. This could make sense with that theory if the gray joycons they described haven't yet been physically connected to that Switch. Or if there's some other condition which causes the bug to happen.

A hardware defect in only certain joycons would be a massive problem.

This makes sense. The joycons I tested at the event were for arms (worked fine) - they were separated from the console for what imagine would be a while, the switch was inside a glass box.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
^reading through all the tweets there

Interesting that there are several cases for which the joycon worked without issues for a while and then the issues start happening and repeating within a relatively short period.

I'm afraid this sounds more like a hardware problem of some sort.
 
^reading through all the tweets there

Interesting that there are several cases for which the joycon worked without issues for a while and then the issues start happening and repeating within a relatively short period.

I'm afraid this sounds more like a hardware problem of some sort.

You would think if it was a factor of time or degradation of some sort, it would have absolutely been caught in QA.

Or happened more during the preview events where they were constantly being used for days on end.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
You would think if it was a factor of time or degradation of some sort, it would have absolutely been caught in QA.

If they tested them long enough under the same conditions.

Or happened more during the preview events where they were constantly being used for days on end.

I think they actually happened quite a lot (going by late reports from the past days), but for such events everybody expect issue to happen due to interferences and not ideal conditions and such. so they were not reported or even considered as issues at that time.
 
^reading through all the tweets there

Interesting that there are several cases for which the joycon worked without issues for a while and then the issues start happening and repeating within a relatively short period.

I'm afraid this sounds more like a hardware problem of some sort.

Again this would make sense if they were working fine out of the box, then after connecting to the Switch (under some unknown condition) the bug makes the joycon go into low power mode permanently.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Again this would make sense if they were working fine out of the box, then after connecting to the Switch (under some unknown condition) the bug makes the joycon go into low power mode permanently.

In this case (the French journo) it's about the same joycons. I assume they were attached to the Switch each day and from the beginning.

I asked also Phazon about the additional joycons and if they were ever connected to Switch, let's see.

I hope the issue can be fixed as easy as you believe it can be.
 
In this case (the French journo) it's about the same joycons. I assume they were attached to the Switch each day and from the beginning.

I asked also Phazon about the additional joycons and if they were ever connected to Switch, let's see.

I hope the issue can be fixed as easy as you believe it can be.

I wouldn't necessarily say I believe it's this easy, it's just that I hope it is. It's a very logical theory though based on what we've heard, so it seems like as good as a reason for this issue as any.

Especially based on the well written post by the poster who brought up the FCC filing.
 

oti

Banned
As I said in the other thread, if it's just the JoyCons bundled with the console that are bad, I'm not too worried. That means the solution is just Nintendo having to give people replacements.

At least it doesn't seem like an inherent design problem a la AntennaGate

"just"
Dude. That would be awful.

From the other Joycon thread:










Please keep this in mind when worrying about "LatchGate".

lol yeah. I love GB to pieces but the way they cover the Switch has been kind of terrible. From not knowing key details on their podcast for months to now dropping the Switch and Jeff going into full panic mode makes them look bad.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Especially based on the well written post by the poster who brought up the FCC filing.

Did the FCC filing mention the power saver mode for the bluetooth on the joycons?

Why would the left joycon be affected more than the right one?

How would this explain what's happening with the right joycon in GX video?
 

Schnozberry

Member
Did the FCC filing mention the power saver mode for the bluetooth on the joycons?

Why would the left joycon be affected more than the right one?

How would this explain what's happening with the right joycon in GX video?

I never claimed to have all of the answers but this post makes a pretty persuasive argument:

Since I have nothing better to do I tried to look into any FCC filings for the Joy-Cons. If HAC-015 (https://fccid.io/BKEHAC015) is the left Joy-Con, which seems likely, then we already have some information about the maximum output power.

HgW09v8.png


This suggests the output power is around 3-4 dBm, which is in-line with what you would expect from a Bluetooth Class2 device (maximum output power of 4dBm). While Bluetooth technically allows up to 20dBm output power for Class1 devices, most chips today will allow up to 10dBm output power. This is informally known as Class1.5 and is common since FCC does not require SAR testing for any devices with an output power below 10dBm.

The good news is then that Nintendo will most likely be able to increase the output power by around 6dB, which should in theory give around twice the current range. This will also not negatively affect the Battery life significantly, as the chip will dynamically change the output power as required. So the additional power will only be used when it otherwise would lose the connection.

The bad news is that the Joy-Cons will have to be re-certified, which means that Nintendo will likely not be able to have this done as a day-one firmware update unless they already caught this issue ahead of time and are in the process of fixing it already. (They will also likely have to measure SAR as well even if they are below the 10dBm limit, since Canada recently lowered the limit where you do not have to measure SAR to 6dBm).

The thing that surprises me however is that 4dBm should absolutely be enough power for the type of environments shown in the video above. Deliberately covering the entire device with both hands will probably always be a problem. The antenna is probably quite narrowband so doing that will likely detune it as well causing even more losses than what you get anyway from the absorption in the hands. But simply placing the device behind the back and breaking line-of-sight? When you are indoors and only a few meters away from the main console, this should absolutely not be a problem. So unless there is something really strange going on with their antennas (like if they didn't account for the detuning that might happen when you hold the device normally) then it might actually be possible that the real Joy-Cons are using lower power than they are certified for, either due to a firmware bug or because someone though it would increase battery life (it really shouldn't). In that case, it would be fairly simple to issue a new firmware to increase the power.


I'm just hoping it's something like this as it would be pretty disastrous if this were a hardware problem. Also we've had that (not necessarily trustworthy) report that Nintendo will be fixing this before launch, so it's possible that it's accurate.
 

oti

Banned
There's awful, then there's unfixable.

If my choice is between those two, give me the first every time obviously. Like the issue sucks and is terrible, but it's fixable.

Can you imagine the scale of such an operation? I don't even want to think that far and hope it's just a software issue they can fix easily. Would be the best for consumers.
 

-shadow-

Member
Yeah it's the sync button. But once a controller is synced you don't need to press that button for it to connect to the system.
 
Can you imagine the scale of such an operation? I don't even want to think that far and hope it's just a software issue they can fix easily. Would be the best for consumers.

If the tweet in the post I quoted is correct, it really wouldn't be that tough of a solution. The tweet implies that the bundled JoyCon have issues, but the ones sold separately do not.

If that's the case, it's as simple as "register your Switch SN on a Nintendo site and receive a free set of JoyCon" and they just send out new sets. It would take time to produce enough, but it would get sorted.

Will it be a gigantic hassle and money loser for Nintendo? Yeah. Will it be incredibly difficult for the end-consumer to overcome? No, not really.
 
He was already 5-6 ft... Sarcasm?

I'm not saying the range is okay, I'm saying he could have moved closer to test that the distance was the issue, or find out what the threshold distance was. If I had one of these as a reviewer I'd be doing a lot of this type of testing to try to determine the problem, although not having played Zelda yet I guess I can't say that for sure- I might have a hard time putting Zelda down.
 

shanafan

Member
Does Giantbomb just do silly stuff for views? I can't take them seriously..

Eating Switch cartridges?
Knocking the Joy Cons out of the Switch?
Dropping the Switch on concrete?
 
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