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[blakep267]

The PC stuff matters for people who are on message boards like us (if I ever get really interested in Xbox games, I would just look into PC gaming). Otherwise, the mass market doesn't care and they probably don't even know. I mean, the big third party games on consoles are released on PC too but the consoles still manage to make up the vast majority of sales. People don't care.

Pretty much. I think it's been weighed out and the few copies sold, game exposure, micro transaction and W10 adoption outweigh any potential console sales lost.

 

[AmuroChan]

If anything having Xbox games on PC gives them more exposure. Good for generating hype. Like I imagine there's lots of PC centric gamers that would ignore Sea of Thieves or Crackdown but being on PC might get them to play it, especially twitchers and youtubers. The pros definitely out way the cons, I just wish Microsoft would turn the Xbox app into a pretty good store front like Steam or the Blizzard launcher.

They would get even more exposure if they just release their games on Steam rather than locking them behind the Win 10 Store, which most people don't like.

 

[Thorrgal]

Wow so we counting PC's a XBOXes now?

Sean Spicer would be proud!

 

[staticneuron]

It's a bit of both though, which is where the back and forth is coming in.

There are people who consider it an advantage to have Play Anywhere because, like you just said, they can then play the same games they were already going to play on the couch on Xbox. I'm sure there are more similar reasons in support of this.

On the other hand, there are people who may be somewhat interested in games on Xbox that can't be found elsewhere but aren't interested in spending the money on an Xbox console. To those people, if they already have a Windows 10 computer and one of Microsoft's first-party games comes to the Windows store, they can just settle for playing the game that way, instead of buying a console for it.

So it goes both way. It's both an advantage and disadvantage depending on the individual's needs.

It is not good because while I own a one already, if I knew this was going to happen I wouldn't have purchased it. I am not going to sell what I have so I will use it but if this exists into the next generation of xbox, I see little reason to purchase one.

 

[rokkerkory]

It's a bit of both though, which is where the back and forth is coming in.

There are people who consider it an advantage to have Play Anywhere because, like you just said, they can then play the same games they were already going to play on the couch on Xbox. I'm sure there are more similar reasons in support of this.

On the other hand, there are people who may be somewhat interested in games on Xbox that can't be found elsewhere but aren't interested in spending the money on an Xbox console. To those people, if they already have a Windows 10 computer and one of Microsoft's first-party games comes to the Windows store, they can just settle for playing the game that way, instead of buying a console for it.

So it goes both way. It's both an advantage and disadvantage depending on the individual's needs.

That is true so the fix to this is to have great s/w. No matter where you'll go you'll buy the s/w which is what matters most.

Easier said than done for sure.

 

[Brewmont]

It is not good because while I own a one already, if I knew this was going to happen I wouldn't have purchased it. I am not going to sell what I have so I will use it but if this exists into the next generation of xbox, I see little reason to purchase one.

Right, this situation is understandable, but it's also such a small percentage of overall Xbox gamers.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Pretty much. I think it's been weighed out and the few copies sold, game exposure, micro transaction and W10 adoption outweigh any potential console sales lost.

Yeah, just a way to bring in more revenue and what not. They are gaining more than they are losing.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Wow so we counting PC's a XBOXes now?

Sean Spicer would be proud!

Who is doing this?

 

[Wedzi]

Who is doing this?

Didn't you see the latest NPD press release where Microsoft claimed to have sold 1.25 billion Xbox Ones?

 

[12Dannu123]

How is that different from the base and Pro PS4 model?

Because UWP is a way to connect Consoles and PCs. That's not the case right now. You have middleware programs like Unity, but it still doesn't solve the fundamental problem.

However I do see Microsoft bringing the Xbox Dashboard with UWP only games to create a PC console, but done right.

 

[12Dannu123]

I disagree with Colin. I think Jason Scheier was right when he said MS should try the living room PC approach.

Like Colin outlined, MS can't compete in the first party or Japanese spaces. They should leverage their command of Windows to make a more graphically capable system with all the options Win32 brings them.

Win32 is a dying language, not one except game developers are using it. UWP is much better language to develop for, heck even Game developers are starting to embrace UWP, Indies developers, the most interested seem happy with it.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

Wow so we counting PC's a XBOXes now?

Sean Spicer would be proud!

Hey now.... don't even joke about that. The two aren't even comparable.

But seeing how both are Microsoft platforms, I could see how people can look at it that way.

 

[Wagram]

It's always the same argument. People say they want more diverse games. People respond with a list of diverse games. Original people then respond saying they don't like any of those games.

What original people should just say is that Xbox doesn't have any Japanese games, not diverse games. Then we wouldn't have these silly list wars.

Japanese games are diverse. Nioh isn't the same as Nier Automata which isn't the same as Yakuza which isn't the same as Persona.

You get the point.

 

[PanicFreak]

E3 literally doesn't matter in the long run. Games look great? So what. They need to be great. That's been the thing that has been missing from Microsoft's line up. IMO, Microsoft has released two great new IPs (Ori and Sunset Overdrive) and a bunch of middling shit that has been hit or miss.

I'm always interested in seeing what games are announced and picking the ones that look GOTY quality and I haven't seen anything from Microsoft's stage in a long time (though Sunset Overdrive was actually my GOTY one year).

 

[otakukidd]

Win32 is a dying language, not one except game developers are using it. UWP is much better language to develop for, heck even Game developers are starting to embrace UWP, Indies developers, the most interested seem happy with it.

What the fuck are you talking about. Barely any one writes UWP programs. If they did, the windows store wouldnt be shit.

 

[GLAMr]

Win32 is a dying language, not one except game developers are using it. UWP is much better language to develop for, heck even Game developers are starting to embrace UWP, Indies developers, the most interested seem happy with it.

Win32 is not a language. Every major business software still uses Win32. Name one that doesn't.

 

[12Dannu123]

I could be wrong of course, but I really dont see the Scorpio being all that succesful if it is actually being created as a new gen for MS, mostly because it seems to be aiming at a very specific consumer and not the mass.

Arguably it would go against the Pro regarding userbase, but then again, I dont see it getting full exclusives in its first year, much less from third parties, since the PS4/XBOs userbase will not be ignored. Pretty much like the Pro. I think Sony is being relatively succesful with it due to a great library of exclusives. Considering MS' ones are all releasing on PC and on the normal XBO... yeah its going to be hard to convince people that it is a new beginning for the brand or whatever they may want to call it because if it backfires as "a new gen" and they need to come up with another console briefly after that would be super confusing and bizarre to consumers overall. It just seems like MS is stuck between a rock and a hard place

Microsoft can enforce games to be developed for Scorpio first and then ported to XB1.

 

[12Dannu123]

Win32 is not a language. Every major business software still uses Win32. Name one that doesn't.

Major business as in for already developed applications. I'm talking about NEW applications. Majority have moved on to UWP and Mobile OSes. Win32 is X86 exclusive and will decline when ARM PCs become more mainstream, where it's UWP for native performance. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia, Samsung, Meditatek join the mix.

 

[12Dannu123]

What the fuck are you talking about. Barely any one writes UWP programs. If they did, the windows store wouldnt be shit.

With the amount of Xbox Play Anywhere games being released, I say it's doing fine on its own and found its niche audience.

 

[Moosichu]

Major business as in for already developed applications. I'm talking about NEW applications. Majority have moved on to UWP and Mobile OSes. Win32 is X86 exclusive and will decline when ARM PCs become more mainstream.

Old applications aren't going away. Which new, popular applications don't have a win32 version?

With the amount of Xbox Play Anywhere games being released, I say it's doing fine on its own and found its niche audience.

I just checked and there are 17 play anywhere games. That's not a lot.

 

[12Dannu123]

Old applications aren't going away. Which new, popular applications don't have a win32 version?

Do you see people saying, "Oh this new Win32 application have you seen it" that's no longer the case and hasn't been the case for years.

Of course old applications and games will continue but in emulation, but when we see the market transition to different architectures then new applications and games will be UWP based.

You, I and maybe cannot deny that X86 will increasing become irrelevant, aside from high end gaming and servers.

 

[12Dannu123]

Old applications aren't going away. Which new, popular applications don't have a win32 version?



I just checked and there are 17 play anywhere games. That's not a lot.

Like I said it's doing fine and has it's audience.

 

[jedimike]

Good shout, and don't forget that if they do end up buying it on PC they have given MS the finger by buying it off of them for PC... That showed them... Oh...

Exactly. Microsoft makes money on Windows 10 too. Why would they care which Microsoft platform you choose to play on?

 

[Moosichu]

Do you see people saying, "Oh this new Win32 application have you seen it" that's no longer the case and hasn't been the case for years.

Of course old applications and games will continue but in emulation, but when we see the market transition to different architectures then new applications and games will be UWP based.

You, I and maybe cannot deny that X86 will increasing become irrelevant, aside from high end gaming and servers.

Why would people ever reference the platform API against which a piece of software was developed?

Also, why would X86 become irrelevant, do you have any evidence of that?

 

[12Dannu123]

Why would people ever reference the platform API against which a piece of software was developed?

Also, why would X86 become irrelevant, do you have any evidence of that?

What I mean is that. Do you see people talking about. That they need to see this desktop application, that they must download? Not really.

The mainstream market is where those ARM PCs are targeting, they have features that suit that audience. Majority of the gaming industry is built on the mainstream market. The enthusiast market is a small minority, there's no debate on that. If majority of the Pc market went ARM and the high end PC market remained X86? What would developers pick? Would they pick Win32 which is X86 only for native performance or UWP which is native on both ARM and X86?

 

[12Dannu123]

They would get even more exposure if they just release their games on Steam rather than locking them behind the Win 10 Store, which most people don't like.

Steam doesn't support UWP. Until they do, Microsoft games or any UWP game that is developed for A multi architecture PC market won't ever make it to the Steam.

 

[GLAMr]

Do you see people saying, "Oh this new Win32 application have you seen it" that's no longer the case and hasn't been the case for years.

Enterprise and government customers do not want flashy new systems, as transitioning to new platforms and systems is incredibly costly and carries significant risk. Windows 7 is the new XP for large organisations. I work in an organisation with 10,000 employees and we are sticking to Windows 7 for the foreseeable future, and MS are fully supportive of that.

Visual Studio, Adobe CS, Python, Esri, Office and most of the other major software packages I use every day are still Win32. UWP is a neat idea with a lot of potential, but the idea that UWP with a non-x86 architecture is going to suddenly supplant the entrenched x86/win32 paradigm is laughable.

Also, name ONE major application coming to UWP that isn't an Xbox game?

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

The idea that Win32 is going anywhere in the near future is delusional. It's Microsoft's wettest dream, sure, but it ain't happening, son. We'll sooner see something like ChromeOS thin-client model actually become a big thing, I daresay.

 

[justsomeguy]

There are people who consider it an advantage to have Play Anywhere because, like you just said, they can then play the same games they were already going to play on the couch on Xbox. I'm sure there are more similar reasons in support of this.

On the other hand, there are people who may be somewhat interested in games on Xbox that can't be found elsewhere but aren't interested in spending the money on an Xbox console. To those people, if they already have a Windows 10 computer and one of Microsoft's first-party games comes to the Windows store, they can just settle for playing the game that way, instead of buying a console for it.

So it goes both way. It's both an advantage and disadvantage depending on the individual's needs.

Those are both advantages.

 

[AgentP]

Exactly. Microsoft makes money on Windows 10 too. Why would they care which Microsoft platform you choose to play on?

Do people pay for XBL on Windows? Do the games sold pay a fat license fee?

They do care, it's much better profit.

 

[justsomeguy]

Yeah like for example if you take the recent gears cross play test, it was something along the lines of 10% W10 users and 90% Xbox users. Now that can't be extrapolated to sales and we can't say that every W10 user participated in the test, but the vast majority of people would likely still play it on console.

I guess the argument is that most of those 10% on PC are "net new" players who don't have an Xbox and probably wouldn't buy one either. So it's a win.

 

[justsomeguy]

Do people pay for XBL on Windows? Do the games sold pay a fat license fee?

They do care, it's much better profit.

They get the 30% store fee so yeah.

See previous post re. net new buyers. Plus there's DLC, micro transactions, etc.

 

[Johnohno]

Japanese games are diverse. Nioh isn't the same as Nier Automata which isn't the same as Yakuza which isn't the same as Persona.

You get the point.

I'm not saying they aren't. Conversely Ori isn't the same as Ryse, which isn't the same as Recore, which isn't the same as Crimson Dragon, which isn't the same as Halo Wars, which isn't the same as Sunset Overdrive, which isn't the same as Zoo Tycoon.

You get the point.

My argument is that there are diverse games available on both platforms that cater to multiple gamers tastes. It's just some people don't like certain things available to them so forget they exist and say there's no diversity, when it's just false.

 

[kyser73]

Enterprise and government customers do not want flashy new systems, as transitioning to new platforms and systems is incredibly costly and carries significant risk. Windows 7 is the new XP for large organisations. I work in an organisation with 10,000 employees and we are sticking to Windows 7 for the foreseeable future, and MS are fully supportive of that.

Visual Studio, Adobe CS, Python, Esri, Office and most of the other major software packages I use every day are still Win32. UWP is a neat idea with a lot of potential, but the idea that UWP with a non-x86 architecture is going to suddenly supplant the entrenched x86/win32 paradigm is laughable.

Also, name ONE major application coming to UWP that isn't an Xbox game?

That foreseeable future extends to 2020 for extended Enterprise support for W7. Every single major developer of enterprise software is working on UWP migration pathways for their products too.

 

[MindGamingMantis]

"I think putting your exclusives on PC is asanine"

*touts Nier Automata as an advantage PS4 has over XB1*

>_>

Why bother posting this nonsense?

Gears 4/uncharted 4 on PC is not the same as Nier on PC.

 

[sirronoh]

Those are both advantages.

Post was in reference to the Xbox hardware, not Microsoft as a whole.

Yes, if someone purchases a Play Anywhere game no matter where it is, that's an advantage for Microsoft due to the software revenue.

But Play Anywhere is not necessarily an advantage for Xbox console revenue for the examples I gave in my post.

I think you know this though. And I think we can all agree that Microsoft is happy as long as people spend money in their ecosystem.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I was simply listing historical attempts to achieve the subject of the OP - some were literal and "successful" and some were technical and philosophical failures. But there was NOTHING standard about them as generational divies and in fact both the 7800 and the 5200 roundly failed to provide sufficiently meanigful bumps compared to say, IntelliVision, ColecoVision or even Vectrex(which is kind of a sideways improvement).

I think there's lots of confusion here, or at least I'm not understanding how your point coheres. I was initially thinking you were pushing the Atari machines as iterative consoles like Scorpio, which they definitely aren't. You've now said your intent was just to mark them as analogous attempts to change the market. But how can that apply to the 5200, when Atari owned the market with 2600?

Similarly, I disagree strongly that the 5200 failed to manifest a generational leap over its predecessors. When I first saw 5200 games, they were mind-blowing versus the 2600 and Intellivision games I was used to. As you must know, comparison screens from multiple systems were a staple of game magazines and advertisements at the time. Even at those postage stamp sizes, Coleco, the 5200, and some PCs (as you pointed out) were clearly a separate generation. They naturally clumped into groups, helping define the very idea of such divides. (I suppose you could make the point that this kind of gapping wasn't yet "standard". But by the definition that evolved, it seems unquestionably to be a generational jump.)

The 7800 is admittedly much more like your description: a radical move meant to realign the market. But of course that market faltered badly enough that it never had a chance to even try, instead released too late, against too stiff competition. We can't know what its "sidegrade" hardware approach would've seemed like without NES or SMS to compare. But just anecdotally, I thought Ballblazer was amazing looking, even in 1986. It was a taste of what PCs were doing in their space, better and more flexibly (as you were right to delineate).

And (one of) the original intent(s) of the 5200 was to BE b/c and it was shelved to create better marketing/tech distinction (you can buy an adapter that's more or less a physical adapter) as opposed to cost savings.

Isn't the 2600 "adapter" just like the Intellivision and ColecoVision ones, an actual separate console? I never had the 5200 version, but the pictures I've seen show controller ports on the adapter itself, unlike the 7800 with its true BC.

 

[Venom.]

The whole thing here is that Colin doesn't understand - actually, he does understand, but is too stubborn to admit it - what the Pro is about.

It's a premium device, aimed at prolonging the PS4 product life-cycle and giving consumers a high tier outlet. It's a high margin product, a "this is a thing, if that's what you want" and it was visibly created and is being marketed that way. A key thing with the strategy is that it gives Sony some flexibility with pricing, so they can go lower with the base model and cover a wider reach of entry price points, all the while keeping a single, unified userbase they can address. It's marketing 101, ffs.

Colin thinks Scorpio will be something else and will be disappointed when he finds out it will be the exact same idea.

I think you have explained the benefits of the PS4 Pro perfectly and succinctly. People sometimes forget that Colin IS a bigger fan of PlayStation. In the video he does try to present a balanced view but his arguments are predicated on many Microsoft IFs which I suspect he doesn't believe will transpire.

With regards to the Scorpio not being a new generation and simply an XBO Plus, like the PS4 Pro is not a new gen PlayStation, this is unlikely to be coincidental if it is because this business model in the console market was unheard of before Sony created it with the PS4 Pro. This means what I have always believed that the Phil Spencer is too reactionary to public opinion (GAF and Twitter). More likely it was set to be a new-gen and he got scared of a backlash. So on this point I will begrudgingly say that 'Colin was right!' With time we will see Xbox Scorpio exclusives.

 

[NetMapel]

The great thing is that I can most likely convince friends of mine to buy Sea of Thieves on their PC to play with me thanks to Play Anywhere. Wouldn't be able to do that if Xbox doesn't allow for it!

 

[Crayon]

I would agree that they want to start making scorpio exclusives at some point except I don't think they can sell enough scorpios to build a userbase that can float exclusive games. Plus you have to morph the marketing from "It's and xbox one" to "It's an Xbox Two". Sounds pretty tricky and not very helpful to their situation.

 

[NavyPharaoh]

I would agree that they want to start making scorpio exclusives at some point except I don't think they can sell enough scorpios to build a userbase that can float exclusive games. Plus you have to morph the marketing from "It's and xbox one" to "It's an Xbox Two". Sounds pretty tricky and not very helpful to their situation.

This is exactly how I see it. For everyone thinking it's going to have exclusives, they won't be 3rd party due to install base. And MS doesn't even put out enough exclusives for the X1 due to lack of studios, but some are going to magically appear for Scorpio?

MS needs too much to go right, there is no turning it around. Doesn't mean they need to stop making consoles. They're Bizzaro Nintendo, Both companies strengths and weaknesses are the exact opposite. Nevertheless the industry needs both!

 

[justsomeguy]

Post was in reference to the Xbox hardware, not Microsoft as a whole.

Yes, if someone purchases a Play Anywhere game no matter where it is, that's an advantage for Microsoft due to the software revenue.

But Play Anywhere is not necessarily an advantage for Xbox console revenue for the examples I gave in my post.

I think you know this though. And I think we can all agree that Microsoft is happy as long as people spend money in their ecosystem.

Ah apologies - I did look back to see if that's what was meant in context but didn't see it - it was the middle of the night & I was half asleep to be fair ☺

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

Wow so we counting PC's a XBOXes now?

Sean Spicer would be proud!

What the hell is with people trying to draw parallels between the Trump administration and Xbox? So stupid.

 

[Bgamer90]

Maybe we just have fundamentally different views of the market, but I would be willing to bet there are a large percentage of people who bought PS4 because it is more powerful for multiplatform games. I don't think exclusives have the sway they used to, with the exception of Uncharted.

FYI, many people on these forums said exactly what you did in your post back in 2013-2015.

Why some can't understand that different people buy consoles for different reasons (whether it's exclusive games, best multiplats, a straightforward box to play multiplats with friends, or a mix of those three qualities) is beyond me. Seems that some here pretty much say that people buy consoles for whatever strength their preferred console of choice has during the time of the discussion. Hence the change in what some people are saying now in comparison to what they said in 2013-2015.

 

[mckmas8808]

Colin and Greg wholly believe that Scorpio isn't just a mid-cycle upgrade, but an actual next-gen console. I don't think that's the case, but they've argued that it's the Xbox 2, just completely backwards compatible.

I can't wait to see what Colin and Greg say at E3 when it's 100% clear that the Scorpio is just a mid-gen refresh.

 

[~Cross~]

I can't wait to see what Colin and Greg say at E3 when it's 100% clear that the Scorpio is just a mid-gen refresh.

I hope the title will be "Collin Was Wrong"

 

[Crayon]

I can't wait to see what Colin and Greg say at E3 when it's 100% clear that the Scorpio is just a mid-gen refresh.

If they don't believe it now, they won't believe it then.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

I can't wait to see what Colin and Greg say at E3 when it's 100% clear that the Scorpio is just a mid-gen refresh.

Every system they make will be a "mid gen refresh". MS isn't doing generations anymore. It's just faster x86 hardware. Anyone who buys a new PC and keeps all their old software and games will understand.

No more generations for MS.

 

[cakely]

Every system they make will be a "mid gen refresh". MS isn't doing generations anymore. It's just faster x86 hardware. Anyone who buys a new PC and keeps all their old software and games will understand.

No more generations for MS.

If this keeps getting repeated here, it will eventually be true!

Spoiler

No, it won't.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

If this keeps getting repeated here, it will eventually be true!

Spoiler

No, it won't.

No it was stated last e3 that they are introducing gaming without generations. Maybe you missed the press conference.