The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I disagree with that, but this makes it very clear that "its not respecting the original creator!" doesn't hold water
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Original Ghost in the Shell director Mamoru Oshii defends ScarJo playing Major
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
- Status
Lights and Waves
Member
I wonder if that's a weird feeling creating something, having someone else adapt it, and then the entire world things that the other guy created it and believes his version of it is superior. To the point that it becomes a cultural phenomenon.
Sucks. lol
John Wayne made an excellent Asian man.
Yeah. I expect him to stick to the script for every interview really.
show me your skeleton
Member
this, some of the things said by mamoru oshii is just madness.
Suzushiiro
Banned
America views race through a very unique lens due to having sizable populations of every skin color in God's crayon box, most of which have varying histories of being treated unfairly. It shouldn't be surprising to see people from countries that are 99% one race wonder what the fuck we're going on about when things like this pop up. Not saying that automatically makes Oshii wrong, just saying that we shouldn't expect him to understand what the big deal is.
Personally, I think it would have been fine to have a mostly-white cast had they done what The Departed did and completely transplanted the story to the west, but they seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it too here, keeping the Asian-ness when it looks cool but still hiring big-name white actors to give top billing to for that $$$.
Personally, I think it would have been fine to have a mostly-white cast had they done what The Departed did and completely transplanted the story to the west, but they seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it too here, keeping the Asian-ness when it looks cool but still hiring big-name white actors to give top billing to for that $$$.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Oshii isn't even the original creator.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
But what does Masamune Shirow think?
EDIT: beaten
EDIT: beaten
Unique? US is not even the most diverse country in the Americas ... it is not even in the TOP 10.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/
andythinkpad
Member
Masamune Shirow's matters way more.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Finally the director of Garm Wars: The Last Druid speaks out!
Zoe
Member
So here's a problem:
So while all of those African nations have a multitude of ethnicities within them, on a US government form, the vast majority are going to check the "black" box.
Which brings up the other issue, race != ethnicity. As far as the school district I work for is concerned, the only ethnicity that gets recorded is Hispanic. The 2010 census is similar except they don't explicitly use the word "ethnicity" anywhere. The article uses the 2000 census (so the data is nearly 20 years old) which also separates the Hispanic question but doesn't make it clear that people shouldn't write in Hispanic as a race.
I would prefer an Asian actress in the lead role, but I think there have been much worse incidents of whitewashing in Hollywood that it's not worth boycotting the movie because of this. There's so many other ways that this movie can disrespect the source material in much more fundamental ways. Changing the appearance of the Major's race doesn't really alter the story of Ghost in the Shell in any meaningful way, as it is her identity as a full cyborg that matters so much more than whatever race her cyborg body portrays her to be. Plus there is still diversity elsewhere in casting, with Asian actors portraying Aramaki (lines completely in Japanese) and Togusa. Casting actually seems relatively diverse.
BlackLagoon
Member
"Can we make ScarJo's outfit look more like lingerie?"
"Does she ever get naked?"
"Could we get Mila Kunis and Olivia Wilde in the movie for a threesome?"
UnemployedVillain
Member
This. Plus of course Japanese are going to perceive whitewashing different from Asian Americans.
I posted this way back, but you can't compare someone living in a place where they're the dominant race and see 99.9% of people like them in the media in all manner of roles/positions to someone where that's the exact opposite. Of course their perspectives will differ.
I would. The funny thing is her family gene pool is made of pretty much every race but asian.
And stop whitewashing Briareos.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
He's japanese and living in Japan.
he doesn't understand the white washing concept.
I feel like, only asian americans understand the narrative.
he doesn't understand the white washing concept.
I feel like, only asian americans understand the narrative.
Well he's been saying it since the set visit so that doesn't really hold.
And yet his film is what everyone outraged about this seems to point to as the point of reference.
Please be good. Pleeeeeaaaaaseeee...
formasymphonic
Member
So is everyone ready for an hour and a half of hearing Batou prounounced as Bah-2?
bobbychalkers
Member
I'm not gonna say that his opinion is wrong in wanting ScarJo to play Major but Oshii lives in a homogeneous society and sees Japanese people represented in media nearly 100% of the time. Asian Americans do not have that Using John Wayne playing Genghis Khan as a point pretty much tells me that this went over his head.
I saw the Uh-vatar the Last Airbender movie, it can't be worse.
Gentleman Jack
Member
If that's the entire circumference of the mangled pronunciations of places and names in a futuristic Japanese setting I'll consider myself extremely lucky.
This straw man is funny considering these things exist in the movie and anime. One of the trailers have her making out with another chick.
Japan also has their own history of changing the race and ethnicity of characters in anime adaptations. Recent examples including Attack on Titan and Fullmetal Alchemist.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I think the point of that post is to highlight that Masamune Shirow is basically a pornographer and wouldn't give a shit beyond the superficial spread-eagle bodypainted stripper poses he puts his female characters into.
bobbychalkers
Member
Because they are Japanese movies in a country that is ~98.5% ethnically Japanese for an audience that speaks Japanese. Its not a 1:1 comparison. If they ever made American Attack on Titan and Full Metal Alchemist adaptations, there would be no controversy if they gave the lead roles to white actors.
If Japan made a movie about the Nativity of Jesus, expect a Japanese dude to play Jesus.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Original GitS is Shirow actually trying to write a story with characters, but yeah his fetishes still peek out at you about once every 20 pages or so.
Man Machine Interface is basically a cheescake pose collection of the major with some metaphysical bullshit drawn and written into the background.
He's only gotten worse since. :/
radios shipping overview
Member
I really don't think Shirow gives a shit at this point. He's getting paid, so that's cool.
Maybe he'll take the opportunity to draw a Caucasian Major with two horses.
Right. I understand why it happens. This behavior is typical in Japan. They have a completely different racial context. This is why consulting the original Japanese creators on this whitewashing question is pointless.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Nah Jesus would be white his brother Isukiri will be Asian though and hopefully get the respect as the true Savior. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingō,_Aomori#Tomb_of_Jesus_Christ
Bullshit. It's nothing but shaming. The discussion isn't about any pervy things that may be in the manga or any other works he has done but thats what it's always turns to. Here we are talking about whitewashing in hollywood. If Shirow was asked about it do you really think he is going to side step the question and start talking about w tails cat? I honestly find it insulting. You people are basically saying that shirow must be some idiot who is incapable of a thoughtful opinion cause he also makes smut as well. I mean it's not like he created the themes and ideas in the Ghost in the Shell.
This show your complete ignorance about the Japan population.
japanese 98.5%
Koreans 0.5%
Chinese 0.4%
other 0.6% (Brazilians, Peruvian = most japanese descendants)
99.4% (at minimum) is easy to pass as japanese if you see a picture only. Try get a lot of western looking actors to make a movie
edit:beaten.
Zoe
Member
fixed
Ban Puncher
Member
I've traveled to Japan. The day before the Gion Matsuri parade in Kyoto, I walked the streets of Kyoto with the largest crowd of people I've ever personally witnessed in my entire life.
I know what the demographics of Japan look like.
dacuk
Member
You know that you are free to skip watching the movie, right?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
And people can freely criticize what he said and what the movie is doing. You may not agree but this has been a bad year for Asians.
Wanda/Wander
Member
words and deeds lolololol
I have zero faith this will be handled well, but hopefully I'm wrong.
Spoiler for a movie that is sill in theaters.
There are going to be a lot of think pieces and hot takes comparing this to "Get Out"...that aren't going to be in "Ghost in the Shells" favor.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
What does that have to do with anything I've written?
You shouldn't conflate your anecdotes with actual demographic statistics on Japan's population. Expecting the Japanese to accurately cast race in comparison to the US is not realistic nor is it even an equivalent measure.
Dyson Industries
Banned
Whoops
WrenchNinja
Member
Dude is out of touch and lacks any sort of cultural context on what people are criticising the movie for
I completely agree with him, especially this part:
And certainly artistic expression can be political in nature if the creator wants it to be, but otherwise politics should not be forced into art. Art occupies a space outside the confines of reality. That's part of what makes it so valuable.
And certainly artistic expression can be political in nature if the creator wants it to be, but otherwise politics should not be forced into art. Art occupies a space outside the confines of reality. That's part of what makes it so valuable.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked