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[MilkyJoe]

So? Where did I say you or anyone else had to have bought MGS5 for Quiet? I explicitly said above it's not just about raw sales numbers. Heck, some people buying Quiet figures, cosplaying or even just helping boost Stefanie Joostens career or visibility won't even have bought MGS5. Some. Most will.

My field of study is psychology and I do enough study as it is on sexuality, sexualisation and human behavioural evolution. You cannot just run away with the cake saying sex is nothing, it can never be used for consumer behaviour or consumer influence.

Even my fellow academics in the fields of marketing should be backing me up here.

I said I DIDN'T buy the game because of quiet. Sex sells, but it also repels. It's not the 1980s, you're not going to get covers like this;

So the next best thing is computer generated boobs and arse, for the little pervs to drool over. And frankly itt's not something I am comfortable with. I showed the missus the sceen with Quiet in the back of the helicopter and she was horrified at how degrading it is.

 

[Audioboxer]

I said I DIDN'T buy the game because of quiet. Sex sells, but it also repels. It's not the 1980s, you're not going to get covers like this;

So the next best thing is computer generated boobs and arse, for the little pervs to drool over.

A rather simplistic way to approach human psychology. Everyone isn't a perv for enjoying any sort of material with a glimmer of sexualisation. Are you going to tell me anyone who reads romance novels are pervs?

Same goal, to stimulate the inner desires for sexual fantasy, attraction, a feeling of belonging or seeing it unfold in a fantasy where you can project your mind onto the characters involved, and so on. Some novels do ditch the love/romance and just jump straight to detailed depictions of sexual fantasies.

 

[HeelPower]

Its not even exclusive to game's media.

Women's bodies are being used to sell us products/media of all sorts almost all the time.

And,honestly, it doesn't help when some women agree to use their own bodies like that. Its not entirely the product of sexist men ,but also of women who want to use their sexuality as a selling point.

 

[Pompadour]

I believe sex sells but it sells to a specific demographic. It also hinders sales with demographics that are either 1) offended by it for whatever reason or 2) too embarrassed to be seen playing a game like that.

For instance, I feel the main reason they upped the sexuality in Street Fighter V is that Capcom probably figured that the only people who'd pony up for a PlayStation 4 fighting game in Japan (since that system hasn't taken off there like it has in the West) is to target the otaku crowd willing to spend that kind of money. Not that Street Fighter has always had the most sensible designs for their female characters (Cammy has been wearing spandex since the 90's), they just really went for broke with SFV.

 

[SomTervo]

you know what, im going to just drop this here
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-012-0231-6
its from a generally accepted close access publisher

you can,ofcourse, question the method used there but unless otherwise denies by another study im just gonna accept this

Thanks for linking.

Using a sample of 399 box art cases from games [. . .] released in the US during the period of 2005 through 2010, this study shows that sales were positively related to sexualization of non-central female characters among cases with women present. In contrast, sales were negatively related to the presence of any central female characters (sexualized or non-sexualized) or the presence of female characters without male characters present.

God damn.

If anyone with access to this article could let us know how it seems from a methodical standpoint, that would be great.

True, but it still ties into the overall product, which is the game. People see all forms of marketing for something, even cosplay, and that triggers imagery/thoughts/memories or even just conversations about whatever game it is and the characters involved. If you demand they're separated all you're doing is trying to marginalise reasons you don't want around as they may not fit whatever narrative you are trying to push. It's all relative and its a small part of why some developers and publishers aim for what they do. To varying degrees of success, sure, but for all the flak Kojima got for fumbling his reasons for Quiet, in other areas the character and actual actor, Stefanie, have been successful.

I think some people just try to break this down into neat simple boxes where in reality the fields of psychology and marketing are incredibly complex, as is human behaviour and the way in which a general population can be manipulated/influenced/attracted, and in return, can act. I also find it challenging when some completely want to scorch the earth we walk on when it comes to sex, sexualisation and bodily and mind responses. It's possible to have both, all of it, and debates around it where it is okay, and maybe arguably isn't, too. The final answer though isn't some lofty goal of the eradication of all beauty and skin. You're not nuking it from books, TV, games and anywhere else for puritan reasons. Humanity will never work like that and that borders on religious levels of suppression which I can assure anyone do not work well with the mental psyche in a sexually reproducing species.

I guess a compromise would be that even if sex doesn't sell at point of sale, perhaps it can sell in terms of the wider culture (cosplay, fanart, fanfiction, etc)

 

[BudokaiMR2]

It's a case of both.

You don't think marketing execs aren't pushing for these character designs as a means of merchandising them further (i.e dlc, outfits, toys etc)?

Artists who make art on their own time however, aren't influenced by these forces unless they are seeking money (i.e patreon).

I find the bolded funny because in more than a few cases I have seen how Japanese artists are actually held in check by producers and such. Which is kinda crazy when you remember what does get published from Japan! Not all companies keep them in check though

I don't really agree with the conclusions here as I have personally watched incredibly quality Japanese indie games that I worked my ass off get destroyed in sales by faux Anime smut like Sakura Spirits on Steam. That entire series of softcover hentai porn masquerading as Visual Novels sold a ton and probably continue to make bank on nothing but scantily clad Anime girls. I'm pretty sure the sales of the original game dwarf most quality VNs available on steam.

I agree that representation needs to be improved but closing your eyes and pretending like 'sex' isn't a draw for a lot of different audiences seems a little short-sighted and backwards.

 

[Skux]

Do you have some research or papers to show sex sells? Intuitively it makes sense, "yes, sex sells" - the point ITT is that there are no actual studies or research that show otherwise.

It's common for generalisations/truisms that seem intuitively true to be totally wrong. Like the idea that the vast majority of gamers are male – based on marketing from the '90s and '00s you could readily believe that, but it's completely untrue.

This is impossible to verify. Unless you release two versions of the same game.

 

[Korigama]

And isn't that amazing? DoA isn't taken seriously as a fighter, and yet they've managed to crank out so many of them including spin offs. And if the DLC is selling for their latest iteration, then it makes sense why they wouldn't want to crank out another.

Hmm, though I've spoken on it already, I find it arguable that it's not taken seriously as a fighter, particularly when 5:LR was just featured as part of the lineup at Final Round earlier this month. I can concede, however, that newer games like Tekken 7 and SFV were bigger draws in the same tournament.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Hmm, though I've spoken on it already, I find it arguable that it's not taken seriously as a fighter, particularly when 5:LR was just featured as part of the lineup at Final Round earlier this month. I can concede, however, that newer games like Tekken 7 and SFV were bigger draws in the same tournament.

(Sorry, not meaning to insult DOAs from a gameplay perspective. But from my own views it was never a tournament draw like Street Fighter, Smash, or any of the other more technical fighters.)

Fine lines are tread when making arguments and discussions ;_; sorry

 

[4 is a cutie]

Its not even exclusive to game's media.

Women's bodies are being used to sell us products/media of all sorts almost all the time.

And,honestly, it doesn't help when some women agree to use their own bodies like that. Its not entirely the product of sexist men ,but also of women who want to use their sexuality as a selling point.

but in the context of games it almost always is a guy saying "lets put the heroine in a thong"

I'd like to think women using sexual appeal generally differs from Quiet-type content and naturally allows for some nuance in both displays of sexuality and character development. Contrast that to endless examples of sex appeal in games that either have a character not act like they're running around in a bikini all game or is showing off like a "strong female character"

 

[Audioboxer]

Thanks for linking.



God damn.

If anyone with access to this article could let us know how it seems from a methodical standpoint, that would be great.



I guess a compromise would be that even if sex doesn't sell at point of sale, perhaps it can sell in terms of the wider culture (cosplay, fanart, fanfiction, etc)

It does both, just to varying degrees. Sometimes not much at all (many sexualised characters get forgotten or never even paid attention). It relies on creating a product that marketing can then make a good job of getting out there. The realities around the consumers doesn't change, and won't change as the years go on. Some are just looking at "sex sells" like some arbitrary check box you fill out at the cashier (did you buy because "sex" yes/no?) in order to support a simplistic fallacy of understanding of human behaviour.

I personally think this is because there is a genuine desire, for morally decent reasons, to see more diversity in gaming. That can come, it just won't come at the expense of nuking every leg on display in a game every time it appears. As in, the borderlining puritan displays that every single game in existence needs to get rid of sexualisation. It's constantly problematic and as above only pervs are interested! Hero tropes in fantasies will always be around, as they do help sell content and always will. Whether it's games, books or on TV. One can talk about diversity in experiences, just like diversity in reading, or on TV, without coming across as wanting to try and shame the world into never admitting to enjoying anything sexual ever again. That has disastrous mental failings, to others, but damn, to yourself if you're so disgusted and/or afraid of anything sexual. Especially in fully make believe fantasy. There's not even any actors in gaming, or, it's mostly just VA. The lines are blurring a bit with full body mocap and facial scanning. Which is a unique aspect of Quiet.

And I know everyone wants to talk about the balances in gaming, but give it time, we are progressing. Like it or not gaming caught on as very male dominated industry. The equivalent is romance novels, which are still female dominated. There is a bit of human behavioural theory to sexual consumption as well. Men have largely been about visual/audio. Females often in the actual mind with thought out fantasies and role play. You could say the later uses more imagination. However, that's generalising, many females enjoy visual stimulation too. I think this is very clear from on screen acting in TV and film.

 

[SomTervo]

This is impossible to verify. Unless you release two versions of the same game.

Literally on these pages people are sharing studies that attempt to verify or disprove the concept. Look a few posts up.

Under your position, it's impossible to verify anything ever. We have to take what we can get.

The 'same game two covers' idea is a good one though and would be a fascinating experiment.

 

[Famassu]

Go to Tokyo and tell me sex doesn't definitely sell.

Of course there's entertainment that is purely sexual that sells because there's sex in it and people want to see that sexual content, no one is arguing that, but the games that try to sell with sex appeal alone are actually a fairly small niche (the Senran Kaguras and such aren't selling 50 million copies), not mainstrem mega successes.

The sexual content in porn/hentai is what sells it to that particular audience buying the sexual content, but that doesn't mean that even the same people who buy that porn go out buying regular entertainment and make those decisions based on what games show the most T&A or whatever they are into sexually. We are discussing the larger argument whether having something like Cindy in FFXV (made purely to satisfy the male gaze) actually results in any kind of meaningful increase in sales.

If you use the word backlash it's a small jump to outrage. You don't create backlash by rolling your eyes real hard.

Backlash doesn't imply some kind of overt outrage. It can just mean that a large number of people voice their opposing opinion over something that someone did or said, maybe with a bit if bafflement as to the ridiculousness of what was done or said. If I create a thread called "Legend of Zelda:BOTW sucks ass, worst Zelda ever", that will create a backlash of a thread where most people would disagree with me without any actual outrage. Some might use harsh words & overly aggressive ridicule, but I doubt many people would actually be a outraged by such an opinion

 

[MilkyJoe]

A rather simplistic way to approach human psychology. Everyone isn't a perv for enjoying any sort of material with a glimmer of sexualisation. Are you going to tell me anyone who reads romance novels are pervs?

Same goal, to stimulate the inner desires for sexual fantasy, attraction, a feeling of belonging or seeing it unfold in a fantasy where you can project your mind onto the characters involved, and so on. Some novels do ditch the love/romance and just jump straight to detailed depictions of sexual fantasies.

There is nothing wrong with sexual perversion, everyone loves a it of it. But there is a time and place for it and the difference being that those novels are what they are, everyone knows what they are, and everyone expects nothing more from them.

But why should one expect a computer generated woman to push her tits in your face and present her hind quarters to you in an action shooter? It's not called MGS: Trouser Snake Eater.

 

[Dark_castle]

Its not even exclusive to game's media.

Women's bodies are being used to sell us products/media of all sorts almost all the time.

And,honestly, it doesn't help when some women agree to use their own bodies like that. Its not entirely the product of sexist men ,but also of women who want to use their sexuality as a selling point.

You know, I can understand the idea of exploiting females to sell their products, but what I don't understand is wildly popular titles like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy feeling the need to sexualize their characters when they are already going to sell like hotcakes in the first place. It makes no fucking sense. Like sure if it's a random new IP from an amateur studio who just want quick cash in, I can see them going down that route, but Metal Gear Solid 5? Final Fantasy XV? Why? It's already going to sell very well, so yeah why.

 

[Audioboxer]

There is nothing wrong with sexual perversion, everyone loves a it of it. But there is a time and place for it and the difference being that those novels are what they are, everyone knows what they are, and everyone expects nothing more from them.

But why should one expect a computer generated woman to push her tits in your face and present her hind quarters to you in an action shooter? It's not called MGS: Trouser Snake Eater.

I think you'd be best to try and separate perversion from the ease at which you want to throw out the term. Anyway, it may have been the furthest Kojima has pushed it in a MGS game, but sexualisation has been in the series since day 1. At the very least it is adult rated content and has always dealt with adult themes.

Kojima got flak for how far he went this time but it's being a bit dishonest to treat the series like some "basic" run of the mill strict shooter.

 

[Skux]

Lol. We are all so used to sex being able to sell things that stuff like Overwatch and the Tomb Raider reboot are somehow considered champions for non-sexualised female characters.

Look at OP's example of heroic females. All of them are athletic (attractive), young (attractive), with long hair and clear skin (attractive). Just because they're wearing reasonable clothes doesn't mean they haven't been designed with sex appeal in mind.

Show me a game with actual plain, unattractive, middle-aged, unfit, and overweight characters and tell me that sex appeal doesn't sell.

 

[martino]

You know, I can understand the idea of exploiting females to sell their products, but what I don't understand is wildly popular titles like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy feeling the need to sexualize their characters when they are already going to sell like hotcakes in the first place. It makes no fucking sense. Like sure if it's a random new IP from an amateur studio who just want quick cash in, I can see them going down that route, but Metal Gear Solid 5? Final Fantasy XV? Why? It's already going to sell very well, so yeah why.

bacause thoses games producer (or someone with influence on them) like sexualization seems the fiting response here

 

[Isurus]

Eh, I'm not at all in agreement with OP. Sex sells is a generalized statement and is marketing 101 / behavior economics 101 that has been proven time and time again. Humans tend to make different decisions when feeling strong emotion; we behave differently and more irrationally. Sex appeal, when done right, can trigger arousal, which then can also lead to increased buying potential.

Remember, this is an "in general" statement. It doesn't mean to applies specifically to you in all situations (our emotions are all triggered somewhat differently). However, there are many studies out there that demonstrate this. I'd suggest the book "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely. Fascinating book.

 

[Audioboxer]

Lol. We are all so used to sex being able to sell things that stuff like Overwatch and the Tomb Raider reboot are somehow considered champions for non-sexualised female characters.

Look at OP's example of heroic females. All of them are athletic (attractive), young (attractive), with long hair and clear skin (attractive). Just because they're wearing reasonable clothes doesn't mean they haven't been designed with sex appeal in mind.

Show me a game with actual plain, unattrctive, unfit, and overweight characters and tell me that sex appeal doesn't sell.

Yup, short and poignant point. Crossing Eden is often fixated on flesh, or nudity, and for some reason often ignores sex and beauty as its all-encompassing tropes. Facial symmetry, height, weight, skin completion, body shape and curvature (hour glass figure has psychological merit in behavioural theory), and overall well dressed, clean and immaculate characters.

These are all the same reasons that lead to male AND female heroines being as they are. Sure many will argue how could unfit characters do what Drake or Lara do? Yes there is truth to that. However, fitness levels is again just one part of an overall package that is sold to the consumer. This even extends to books, and its why I constantly like to bring up novels in gaming topics. To try and show some why human behaviour and marketing extends to all fantasy mediums. Not just gaming. Find me a male lead in a romance novel who isn't objectively beautiful, strong, tall, dark haired, rich, dangerous, risk-taking and so on. This goes into multiple spoken/written languages across the globe as well.

As I said some are just so fixated on skin, as in flesh, and nudity, to the point where they don't care about anything else in debating. I can empathise with the causes to strive for diversity but some really need to take a bit more time to educate themselves around why things can be as they are, and some basic psychology and marketing. Some really overt displays like those seen in MGS5 can lead to criticism that Kojima will hopefully take on board, but I regularly see some posters engage in almost religious like puritan campaigns to purge gaming of all sexualisation and any skin at all, which I seriously think is borderline on shaming and is itself quite toxic behaviour. Adults can enjoy adult material without moral busy bodies trying to shame them into wearing a chastity belt. This goes for adults of both sexes. Consumers and developers.

I may seem like I have a bee in my bonnet but this topic and sexualisation at large just leads me to my despair at sex education in general, but especially in America, where humans fail so badly to understand why they are a sexual species and why it is often okay, and healthy, to engage in sexual desires and stimulation. A lack of education and confidence building in younger minds does for sure lead to some relying too much on fantasy, in adult entertainment (porn) and mediums like gaming and what not. I'll agree to that. The way to try and help some of these minds though isn't to shame them and call them perverts. Leave serious condemnations for when actual abuse or anything illegal takes place. It always surprises me on liberal and left-leaning places to see such openness about most social issues, but when it comes to sex and sexuality, damn, this is like discussing the devils work.

 

[Dark_castle]

Lol. We are all so used to sex being able to sell things that stuff like Overwatch and the Tomb Raider reboot are somehow considered champions for non-sexualised female characters.

Look at OP's example of heroic females. All of them are athletic (attractive), young (attractive), with long hair and clear skin (attractive). Just because they're wearing reasonable clothes doesn't mean they haven't been designed with sex appeal in mind.

Show me a game with actual plain, unattractive, middle-aged, unfit, and overweight characters and tell me that sex appeal doesn't sell.

Firstly you should learn the difference between sexy and sexualized.

 

[Mihos]

I bought Nier because of the 2B butt thread on GAF

 

[nOoblet16]

This thread reminded me Hellblade exists

 

[HeelPower]

You know, I can understand the idea of exploiting females to sell their products, but what I don't understand is wildly popular titles like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy feeling the need to sexualize their characters when they are already going to sell like hotcakes in the first place. It makes no fucking sense. Like sure if it's a random new IP from an amateur studio who just want quick cash in, I can see them going down that route, but Metal Gear Solid 5? Final Fantasy XV? Why? It's already going to sell very well, so yeah why.

Not arguing with you.I agree :/

but in the context of games it almost always is a guy saying "lets put the heroine in a thong"

I'd like to think women using sexual appeal generally differs from Quiet-type content and naturally allows for some nuance in both displays of sexuality and character development. Contrast that to endless examples of sex appeal in games that either have a character not act like they're running around in a bikini all game or is showing off like a "strong female character"

I agree.

The biggest problem with Quiet is that it clashes heavily with the themes at hand ,and takes away from the character's integrity.

And ,when it comes to designing fictional women, its mostly male designers deciding to limit the potential of fictional women and narrow them down into sex objects.

 

[CREMSteve]

Lol. We are all so used to sex being able to sell things that stuff like Overwatch and the Tomb Raider reboot are somehow considered champions for non-sexualised female characters.

Look at OP's example of heroic females. All of them are athletic (attractive), young (attractive), with long hair and clear skin (attractive). Just because they're wearing reasonable clothes doesn't mean they haven't been designed with sex appeal in mind.

Show me a game with actual plain, unattractive, middle-aged, unfit, and overweight characters and tell me that sex appeal doesn't sell.

If you gave me two Tomb Raider games, both exactly alike in content outside of a Lara Croft in one that is athletic, young and attractive vs one that is middle aged, unfit and overweight, I would choose the former. I'm guessing most people would be the same.

The stunts that the character pulls off simply wouldn't make sense otherwise.

 

[N7.Angel]

People loves sexe and attractive people, news at 11...

 

[SomTervo]

If you gave me two Tomb Raider games, both exactly alike in content outside of a Lara Croft in one that is athletic, young and attractive vs one that is middle aged, unfit and overweight, I would choose the former. I'm guessing most people would be the same.

The stunts that the character pulls off simply wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I think a "The Tomb Raider Returns" (ala Dark Knight Returns) with a middle aged, slightly less fit but more mature Lara could be fucking awesome from a gameplay and narrative standpoint.

I guess that begets the "exactly alike in content" comment, but that's a hefty contrivance anyway. If the narrative and gameplay fit a less fit/sexy/young character, it could work just as well and be appropriate?

 

[Revolutionary]

LOL

She's doing the classic comic book pose where her torso is twisted like crazy to show off both her ass and tits at the same time. Sex sells.

Also, the disc:

 

[SaniOYOYOY]

Thanks for linking.



God damn.

If anyone with access to this article could let us know how it seems from a methodical standpoint, that would be great.



I guess a compromise would be that even if sex doesn't sell at point of sale, perhaps it can sell in terms of the wider culture (cosplay, fanart, fanfiction, etc)

mm in my opinion the study was design thoroughly because he analyzed (from the cover pic)
- female without male to sales(h1)
- female as main with male to sales (h2)
- female with male as a main to sales (h3)
- h3 while the female is being sexualized (h4)
while also compared their metacritic, rating, publisher, etc. Sales was the number sold in US

 

[Trickster]

Also, the disc:

 

[13ruce]

Well that would not explain the tons of Zelda and Overwatch and other games porn on the internet.

Games do have sex appeal.

Edit: what i mean is games with hot characters probably do end up selling more copies because of that. No matter if they are sexualized in clothes even if they wear normal clothes they still will have sex appeal to some people.

 

[SomTervo]

mm in my opinion the study was design thoroughly because he analyzed (from the cover pic)
- female without male to sales(h1)
- female as main with male to sales (h2)
- female with male as a main to sales (h3)
- h3 while the female is being sexualized (h4)
while also compared their metacritic, rating, publisher, etc. Sales was the number sold in US

Interesting - did he look at males as main too? I got that impression from the abstract.

Pretty gutting result.

 

[nOoblet16]

Also, the disc:

I mean there's also Bloodborne

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

Sex helps some games sell and doesn't help other games sell, but overall the amount of people that appreciate attractive characters is greater than the amount that don't so their inclusion is worthwhile.

 

[hemo memo]

Almost all women in Overwatch are designed for sex appeal.

Sex sells.

Muscular men are another example of sex sells. It's not just women. So yes I think sex sells sadly.

 

[SaniOYOYOY]

Interesting - did he look at males as main too? I got that impression from the abstract.

Pretty gutting result.

you mean only male? i think so ..yea along cover without human character , but just for the control variable for earlier hypothes. Its too detailed to be reviewed quickly hha

 

[Audioboxer]

If you gave me two Tomb Raider games, both exactly alike in content outside of a Lara Croft in one that is athletic, young and attractive vs one that is middle aged, unfit and overweight, I would choose the former. I'm guessing most people would be the same.

The stunts that the character pulls off simply wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Considering what I said above about having to accept fitness does align with the feats these characters pull off your example might be better phrased as a Lara with terrible acne, hair loss/receding hairline, ragged teeth (maybe missing one) and some sort of non-symmetrical facial features (lopsided eyes/nose or something bent/misshapen). You know, things many people have to handle in the real world with gene pool diversity. Of course, some get handed pretty damn good genes and I guess devs could just say well, Lara is one of those lucky few!

However, it's rarely going to happen as in most games of this magnitude (large scale adventures with action/dare defying stunts) the overall package is gong to be draped in all the hero and fantasy tropes around. All to try and create a sum of its overall parts, that markets well, is remembered and equals if not beats the other games with "perfect" heroes/heroines. So it's not just that Lara conveniently has the gene pool to back her up, like every other big character/actor and so forth, it's playing into psychology and behavioural reasons a large generalised audience WANT their fantasy heroes/heroines to be almost perfect. Real life and all its miseries are boring and/or what people need to live with in daily life. Fantasy is often escapism. Like it or not an everyday Lara or Drake with serious ill health, a lack of "objective beauty", irritable bowel syndrome, some complex mental illnesses and boring, drab and mundane personalities would not market well, would probably sell less, and yes, people would even be like are these the heroes we're playing as/aspiring to/escaping reality with?

Hey, it might make things more interesting if Drake had to shit in the bushes every 30 minutes, but yeah, idealised tropes around heroes exist for a reason, in all mediums, even actual acting where nearly every damn lead actor is objectively beautiful, well groomed and has to have somewhat of a personality mixed in with confidence (or the trope of lacking in confidence to being a bad ass confident individual by the end of the film). Holywood and other mediums rehash a lot of the same tropes and stories for a reason, they sell. Like every damn hero comic/show/movie in existence (if they're done well).

Nudity, titillation and sex plays a role in this and is it any surprise those getting naked or having sex are often 9's or 10's? How often are you seeing Donut Drake get his penis out and have at it with the ladies? Yeah, rarely. Best bet for that might be a comedy, but even in comedies, there is often the trope of "ugly nerd" turns into beauty. Often by removing glasses (or replacing outdated glasses), having braces taken off, and straightening hair rather than leaving it frizzy. Not to mention dressing better, at times often proactively sexual rather than draped in a baggy outfit your Catholic grandparent used to wear. These tropes and fantasies repeat themselves over and over and over and over... and still get consumed over and over and over. New generations of minds and humans still chase after what the aging generations did/still do. Until evolution stops us being a sexually reproducing species (which I don't think it ever will), the human mind will continue to be excited and stimulated by sex, sexualisation and fantasy tropes that allude to things the average person may be missing in their lives.

Sex can often be fun, cheeky, rude and in your face too. Tying into having a personality, being provocative and actively trying to be mischievous. Again, often fantasies that humans like to engage in if not think about. Life being exciting and flashy is often what many want, rather than the mundane, the robotic and the safe. How many adults do you think end up in counselling of some sorts for having a "boring" sex life? Yeah, it happens all the time. A big part of that isn't just trying new things, it's approaching the ordinary with a different attitude, fun, and possibly being a bit more cheeky or outgoing. This often comes across in character behaviour or design, think Bayonetta. To instantly think that is crude or childish is okay to jump to, but thats reason again lots end up in therapy due to their sex lives. It's often precisely because some excitement, crudeness and immaturity/laughter is missing. Not to say Bayonetta is a damn cure for that, but to highlight part of the reason she was written and idealised as she is - The mischevious, outgoing, risky, confident and provocative tropes many wish they could aspire to in their day to day life (if not sex life). Why do you think so many damn women want to cosplay as Bayonetta and idealise her?

 

[Wulfram]

Also, the disc:

This is why we'll never go all digital.

 

[Afrodium]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

 

[N7.Angel]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

GOTY.

 

[Creepy]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

Interesting. I didn't know anything about it other than it's a new Nier game, I was gonna get round to it eventually... but I guess I need to buy this game now.

 

[Vlaphor]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

Honestly, that's one of the main reasons I'm looking forward to getting it. With so many games coming out these days, a game has to have something that makes it stand out from the crowd, and for me, that thing can often be fanservicey content. Get a fun game and a little something extra on the side.

 

[Trokil]

Honestly I don't see the problem in this. People did not watch Baywatch for the story, but it was not the only thing on TV. It is our free choice, if we want to watch rather the Wire or something like Baywatch. And sexualisation works in every direction, just ask Kit Harington for example.

So I like that there is a choice between Dead or Alive Xtreme or something more meaningful, that I can watch beautiful virtual women or I can share an adventure with a self- dependent strong female character. The existence of one does not neglect the existence of the other and as long as there is choice, I think you should be able to choose both.

 

[Revolutionary]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

It doesn't get torn off in battle, you have to hold a button combination that doesn't happen naturally during gameplay. I didn't even know it was possible until 40 hours in (which was when I started reading complaints about it), and I'd wager most players didn't either.

 

[sanstesy]

This is not debatable in the literal sense. Humans are attracted to attractive ideals. There is no changing that.

 

[nOoblet16]

The main reason I'm hesitant to buy Nier: Automata is that of the three playable characters, one is a waifu in high heels and a miniskirt and another is a waifu in a ripped leotard and fishnets, and both of them can have their clothing torn in battle leaving them in just their underwear.

Actually no, it's not something that happens on it's own as you have to activate that ability i.e. self destruct for it to happen and only 2B and 9S can do it. The other woman does not have this ability and by extension that means it does not affect her outfit.
I used it only once in my 40 hours of gameplay and it was with 9S, I didn't even know 2B ending up in her underwear after self destruct was a thing until I finished the game and read it off someone's post here on GAF.

It doesn't get torn off in battle, you have to hold a button combination that doesn't happen naturally during gameplay. I didn't even know it was possible until 40 hours in (which was when I started reading complaints about it), and I'd wager most players didn't either.

Yep this

 

[petran79]

Do developers think that players get a boner while playing games?

 

[Fredrik]

I believe Sex Appeal sells games, yes, but is also important that said appeal is not off-putting. Compare Bayonetta and Nier:Automata walking animations and they are very similar but in Bayonetta can come off as weird and over the top while in Nier it seems more tasteful.

My GF has seen both (She likes to look over my shoulder when browsing GAF) and she couldn't take Bayo seriously (She did like the game when we played it together), while when he saw the Nier gif she really liked the style and even looked into cosplay potential and is looking into getting the game for herself later on. And in my mind both could be considered a "Sex Sells" moment since they are portraying a woman in a sexy situation.

Then you go into what appeals to who and then its a matter of what type of sells appeal to what type of costumer, and then we have niches like the senran kagura games, or the otome games with pretty boys.

Yup. Sex Appeal sells everything. Games, movies, clothes, makeup, workout gear, even tools, food, books and electronics. That's just the way it is. Pretty girls sell makeup and clothes to girls who want to become as pretty. Etc. So? Hot beefy guys sell muscle building techniques to guys too, even a simple thing as a new haircut is going to become more popular if a hot guy is showing it off with maximized sex appeal. Etc. So what if this exists in games too. What's the problem? We can shoot a guy in the face with a shotgun without blinkning but we can't stand looking at characters with strong sex appeal??
I can understand if games like DOAX and Senran is considered being too much, I think so too, but the girl in FFXV? Come on! I see more cleavage every day at work just by having young female coworkers.

 

[N7.Angel]

Well sexe sells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHmBf4ExtZk

 

[SprachBrooks]

Not really. There is very little evidence that FFXV moved more copies because Cindy is dressed in that ridiculous getup.

It doesn't have to move more copies. It could be just be that they know their audience appreciates such a character and have appeased them. Fan service doesn't have to predicated on increased sales––but merely to placate the current audience.