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Venom Movie Aiming to be R-Rated, Kick Off Spidey-Connected Universe
- Thread starter Penguin
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Indeed, the deal was to give momentum for the Spiderman franchise. Not invariable spin-offs utilizing secondary Spiderman characters in films that are reported to have no connection with the MCU whatsoever.
Your argument for these movies being connected to the Tom Holland version of Spiderman makes no sense, and flies in the face of previous evidence that indicates these movies won't even be set in a universe where Spiderman is even a thing. These films are only "connected with Spiderman" to the extent that they're taking characters commonly associated with Spiderman and giving them their own isolated stories (see also: Catwoman)
*sigh*
hodayathink
Member
Easiest answer is don't use Peter. They're already experimenting with it right now (animated Miles movie). Base the universe around another Spidey if you must. Spider-Gwen, perhaps?
brandonh83
Banned
I mean, there's literally no wondering at this point if this will be anything worthwhile. It's going to be a shitcream sandwich.
Where do you see evidence that these movies will exist in a world that Spider-man doesn't?
Like he may not be in them, and could be events before his time, but nothing points to this lacking Spider-man in this universe.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
People hating on this will still likely watch, people have wanted to see Venom movie for years
BoogieWoogie
Banned
I guess this also torpedoes the idea of Venom showing up in a Spider-Man MCU sequel. Sigh.
ZeroCypher
Member
Which version of Venom are we getting?
cartographer
Member
So Spidey is going to be Ursula Buffay, except no Helen Hunt cameo?
Strangelove77
Member
Fuckin' dumb.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Tom Rothman - From apparently hating superhero movies so much that he cuts the first X-Men's budget during production... To trying to create a Spider-Man Cinematic Universe without Spider-Man.
lol
lol
Tom Holland's Spiderman won't be in this, because his version is currently web-slinging it up in the MCU. If these films aren't set in the MCU, he won't be in them. Holland is contracted for a handful of movies, and those movies will be set within the MCU. So his Spiderman will not be in these films.
It's theoretically possible that another, brand new Spiderman could be introduced in these films...but I think even Sony realise that would make things very messy and only inevitably end up diluting the Spiderman brand.
If we can't agree on that Sir, we'll just have to agree to disagree in regards to the creative direction they'll take from here on in!
Brilliant.
xKilltheMx
Member
Guys. Where is this no spiderman thing in the venom movie coming from?
I looked at the article and OP and nowhere does it say Spider-Man wont be in the movie?
What am I missing.
This isn't even true. Tom can do both movies from the original contract I thought? They're sharing him. Right? Wrong?
I looked at the article and OP and nowhere does it say Spider-Man wont be in the movie?
What am I missing.
This isn't even true. Tom can do both movies from the original contract I thought? They're sharing him. Right? Wrong?
It's stupid because infinity war is a perfect way for Spidey to acquire the suit.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
I thought Sony Pictures had gotten smart after the Marvel deal...but then they hired Tom "I don't want to greenlight Deadpool ain't no way that would work" Rothman. This sounds horrendous. These characters work in the context of being part of Spider-Man's world. And Spider-Man is in the MCU. Even if Spidey shows up, audiences are savvy at this point about these connected universes. They'll know these movies don't fit in the big picture. Splitting this shit up/not working with Feige on these....Good luck on your new ASM2 Sony.
Sony doesn't have rights to use Spidey anymore
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Can't Sony put Spider-Man in whatever movies they want? They own the film rights to Spider-Man, they are just loaning the character out to Marvel Studios for Avengers. There doesn't seem like any reason why they couldn't put him in these movies.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Sony, no. You're not talented to pull off a good R rated film. You are just doing it because Logan and deadpool did well. You couldn't remember how to make a good Spiderman movie with him in it. You sure as shit can't do it without him. and nobody wants to see R rated Spiderman, christ.
Fancyarcher
Member
Just wait for Sony to announce that the film is DOA, and for their excuse to be "oh it's happening".
They're "sharing him" to the extent that Marvel Studios and Sony are co-producing the new Spiderman films (aka. films that revolve around Spiderman, like Homecoming, which are not spin-offs), which are inherently set within the MCU. The fact that this new Spiderman is now operating within the MCU is the central marketing appeal which Sony have been utilizing to advertise the film. Taking Tom Holland and putting him in completely different films set within a completely different universe would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
When they announced the Spiderman/MCU deal they made it very clear that Sony wasn't handing Marvel Studios the rights to Spiderman, but that it was a cooperation. Spiderman would be able to appear in other MCU movies, and he'd get his own movies under Sony but overseen by Marvel Studios (which allows for Iron Man being in there, for example). But Marvel Studios don't own Spiderman, and every time he'll have another solo movie or be in the other movies, it'll be in collaboration with Marvel Studios (as long as they keep that deal going at least).
Even back then, they made it clear the planned spinoffs (which they've been talking about for years now) were still going to happen, and that those movies wouldn't have creative oversight from Marvel Studios. Sony still owns the new incarnation of Spiderman, and so they're free to use him in those movies. I'm definitely expecting him to show up in those movies, just like other elements/characters from the MCU Spiderman stuff. They have the rights so it only makes sense for them to do it. They're not going to introduce another actor to play him, and they're not going to bring back one of the old actors.
So, Spiderman Homecoming (and other standalone Spidey movies assuming the deal keeps holding up) will be in the MCU. The spinoffs will be in the universe of Spiderman Homecoming, but not in the MCU. All this means is that they won't directly feature Thor or anyone like that. Basically how the TV stuff works - the world is full of Inhumans thanks to Agents of Shield, but you'll never hear a peep about that in the movies.
Is this what the fans want? Probably not. But the casual audience, which still heavily outnumbers the people who follow this stuff closely, won't even notice the difference. It's just about money in the end. It's well known that Sony is completely capable of doing it this way, and it's easy enough to play it safe and not destroy the world building of the MCU. They own the rights to the characters, so it'd be very weird if they're not going to use it.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Rothman's Spider-Man Universe Without Spider-Man.
Fucking shut this shit down, can it. Burn Sony Pictures away.
Fucking shut this shit down, can it. Burn Sony Pictures away.
xKilltheMx
Member
Yes they do? That's what the deal was. Sharing spidey and he can get used in MCU. They still own Spidey.
Exactly. Ya'll sound crazy because this is the actual deal.
No, with Spider-Man but without the MCU.
Youngfossil
Neo Member
Maybe it will be Miles...
They're "sharing him" to the extent that Marvel Studios and Sony are co-producing the new Spiderman films (aka. films that revolve around Spiderman, like Homecoming, which are not spin-offs), which are inherently set within the MCU. The fact that this new Spiderman is now operating within the MCU is the central marketing appeal which Sony have been utilizing to advertise the film, especially given that Holland is contracted for only a handful of films...Homecoming, Infinity War and the confirmed Homecoming sequel already being three out of the six films he's signed up to appear in)
They will not waste those appearances on spin-offs that are already confirmed to exist outside of the MCU.
I really don't know how you do a standalone Venom movie in 2018, especially with regards to his origin. The choices seem to be
A) Rush the black suit Spider-Man stuff super fast. This seems improbable given that there's only one Spider-Man movie between now and this Venom movie and 'standalone' makes it sound like even Spider-Man wouldn't be in this movie. It would also be a bad idea - rushing it would lessen the impact of what the alien symbiote does to Spider-Man.
B) Skip the black suit Spider-Man saga entirely. Eddie Brock gets the symbiote and the symbiote itself has no connection to Spider-Man. Again, sounds like an awful idea - Eddie Brock's story is largely about his contrasts to the life of Peter Parker. Removing the biggest link between them really lessens that.
C) Break Venom's origin even further and get rid of the symbiote entirely, give him a different source of his powers. The worst of all ideas, but one that feels fairly likely to me.
A) Rush the black suit Spider-Man stuff super fast. This seems improbable given that there's only one Spider-Man movie between now and this Venom movie and 'standalone' makes it sound like even Spider-Man wouldn't be in this movie. It would also be a bad idea - rushing it would lessen the impact of what the alien symbiote does to Spider-Man.
B) Skip the black suit Spider-Man saga entirely. Eddie Brock gets the symbiote and the symbiote itself has no connection to Spider-Man. Again, sounds like an awful idea - Eddie Brock's story is largely about his contrasts to the life of Peter Parker. Removing the biggest link between them really lessens that.
C) Break Venom's origin even further and get rid of the symbiote entirely, give him a different source of his powers. The worst of all ideas, but one that feels fairly likely to me.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
One of the best Spider-Man stories of all time could easily be R-Rated. It's not like Spider-Man is without dark themes and stories.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Who's talking about TV? What does Loeb's TV shows have to do with this? The fuck?
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Glass Rebel
Member
As I said in the other thread, if there's one superhero that can have their own universe, it's Spidey. I'm just not sure Sony, Arad and Rothman are the people for the job.
I thought they were sharing the rights?
I'm excited to see what comes out of this. Who knows if it's gonna be bad, y'all need some optimism in your life. Haters hated on power rangers before it came out and that movie was actually decent.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You haven't read Spider-Man: Reign.
I haven't either. I hear mixed things about it.
Sony will never give up the rights to Spider-Man... They're hiring him out.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
He hated Venom before Spider-Man 3 and he probably hates him even more now.
That I can agree with. But Raimi is probably done with superheroes, sadly.
Now that R-rated superhero movies are in, Universal should just get him and Neeson back together for another Darkman.
Glass Rebel
Member
Raimi knew what he was doing with the villains. It's a shame the animatronic Goblin mask didn't pan out.
Jawmuncher
Member
I swear Sony is ran by *insert what you want here*
CuckFupertino
Banned
It's not that the Venom movie is going to be "edgy" and "dark," it's that Sony wants its own cinematic universe. Either they have one without a Spider-Man or they have one with a different Spider-Man than Tom Holland.
Venom is a fan favorite but NOBODY knows who Sable and Black Cat are. Didn't Sony just learn this lesson when they tried to pull this shit in TASM 2?
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