Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Hell yeah, and they should get Frances McDormand back too.
Spider-Man 2 is fantastic but the first one could have been on the same level if it wasn't for the horrendous CG effects and the Goblin mask. I still enjoy it though.
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Venom Movie Aiming to be R-Rated, Kick Off Spidey-Connected Universe
- Thread starter Penguin
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Hell yeah, and they should get Frances McDormand back too.
Spider-Man 2 is fantastic but the first one could have been on the same level if it wasn't for the horrendous CG effects and the Goblin mask. I still enjoy it though.
Jawmuncher
Member
All I've wanted to see on the screen once is a good Venom vs Spidey movie. It's a shame it seems like it'll never happen.
flaxknuckles
Member
I'm gonna see it because I love Venom and Carnage and would rather have them in an r-rated film.
Again, if Spiderman is going to be in these spinoffs it's going to be Tom Holland. There's nothing stopping them from using him. Casting a second actor after the current one blows up in popularity wouldn't make any sense at all.
It's about money, not about hardcore fans being able to keep their continuity wiki's in check. Doesn't matter how much people in here don't want that to happen, saying it out loud a couple of times won't change the fact that Sony still owns the character and that they're free to use Tom Holland however they want.
The Artisan
Member
WTF, how is this shit getting greenlit
did sony learn nothing about keeping spidey shit separate from the MCU? that it is a BAD FUCKIN idea?!
did sony learn nothing about keeping spidey shit separate from the MCU? that it is a BAD FUCKIN idea?!
BlackBanditSho
Member
You know, I read that rumor about LIFE, too. The movie wasn't that great, but as an origin for the Alien/Venom it's kinda cool.
does sony even like
do they have a critical thinking process? sometimes i feel like they literally just throw money at whatever they think has any kind of clout or chance at working
i mean maybe that works for them well enough, i just think they produce a lot of silly things
at least theres the games division
do they have a critical thinking process? sometimes i feel like they literally just throw money at whatever they think has any kind of clout or chance at working
i mean maybe that works for them well enough, i just think they produce a lot of silly things
at least theres the games division
Having these spin-offs tags place in the universe of Homecoming (an MCU film) but not be part of MCU makes no sense. You can't have Tom Holland Spidey in multiple films as the same character and expect mass audiences to be following studio deals close enough to know what is and isn't cannon. If Tom Holland Spidey interacts with Venom in this film then for all intents and purposes this is the MCU Venom, as Marvel would be unable to introduce the character in an MCU Spider-Man film without confusing the shit out of audiences.
THIS. I imagine that the people in this thread are too young or not big enough fans to remember that Venom was VERY popular and had lots of stories back in the day that didn't involve Spider-Man. Hell- they could even set the movie in San Francisco or Philly if they really wanted to keep Spidey out with a geographical excuse that stays true to source material.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
That's why Spider-Man can't be in it; they want to keep him young enough he can't even see it.
WHAT ABOUT MY GENEROUS PROPOSAL? ARE YOU IN...OR ARE YOU OUT?
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S OUT, GOBBY! OUT OF YOUR MIND!
Literally the most Comic Bookesque dialogue ever put to film.
brandonh83
Banned
No. Rothman used to be the CEO at Fox, and it's why movies like Deadpool and Logan didn't exist before he left. He turned down the test footage that Reynolds put together for Deadpool because he didn't like Reynolds. He left, so then they made Deadpool, which was a success, now we just got Logan, which was a success, so now he's over at Sony like oh hey those things I didn't want to do, we should try it because those turned out well. He also turned down an XMen 3 script that had Sentinels in it because he thought giant robots wouldn't fly with modern audiences, denied Alien 5 written and directed by Ridley Scott and James Cameron in favor of Paul Anderson's Alien VS Predator, and forced Die Hard 4 to be PG-13 to sell more tickets.
Even if he did opt for those films while at Fox, he would have made some bullshit decisions and they wouldn't have turned out as good as they did anyway. So imagine how this shit is going to turn out.
edit: if any of the above is untrue, please correct me as I don't want to spread misinformation, it's just things I remember hearing about
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The mass moviegoing audience doesn't really care about that kind of stuff. There was just a very successful Wolverine where the director openly talked about how he just tried to make a good movie and didn't care about the X-Men canon.
Casual movie goers who don't follow these things too closely won't care about what is and isn't canon enough to be confused by any of this.
You can watch a Venom movie, imagine that it takes place in the same world as the Captain America movies even though he never shows up, and it wouldn't change anything at all. It won't matter to the casual audiences. And it definitely won't matter to Sony executives.
It's not about fans and their fan wiki's. Not for the people putting these movies together. They're not going to ignore being able to make a couple of million dollars just because it messes with what some hardcore fans consider to be 'real' in these fictional worlds. That's just not how it works.
hipsterpants
Member
So we are probably going to alternating main Spider-Man and spinoff movies every year. Lol once Sony sees the $$ from Homecoming this shit is going full speed ahead.
2099 or Kaine solo movies could work so damn well.
Linkstrikesback
Member
That'll be the difference between Logan and whatever the hell Sony decide to do.
meltingparappa
Member
So we're just repeating all the mistakes of 90's comics now, are we?
serenewarfare
Banned
Homecoming really isn't their movie though. They make the money from it, but a majority of the production decisions were made by Marvel.
I really don't see a scenario in which Marvel, which was negotiating from a position of advantage, would have agreed to a deal in which they can put in work on a character and then have it fucked up by Sony's incompetent spin-offs.
Oh god, 2099.
Why can't we get 2099? That would be great! That would be fun! That wouldn't be confusing!
Why do you do this to us, Sony?
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
WRONG ANSWER!
Lol, it's been so long, I had forgotten about that glorious exchange. I'm due for a rewatch I think.
Although I still prefer Mister Freeze's superb ice puns in Batman & Robin.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Logan, Deadpool, X Men Days of future past >>> any movie from the MCU
I recently saw Civil War and found it quite dull, marvel movies outside MCU disney restrictions is quite refreshing
Right, but having the save Spiderman in both universes will limit what can be done in the MCU films. For example, audiences would notice if an MCU had a Venom origin story given that the character already exists in this universe (as far as most audiences are concerned) and had a heavily marketed solo film. Because of this, there just probably won't be Venom in the MCU, which basically means Sony's Venom is MCU Venom.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
"1993 was the year Superman died and Venom got his own series. Just keep that in mind." - Marvel Year in Review, 1993
We made it fam.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The agreed to it in the 90s, when Sony bought the rights. Sony owns the character, they can do whatever they want with it.
I can, since that's exactly what they did. Spiderman makes money. Marvel Studios can use Spiderman in their movies, and they'll make money. Sony can do their own movies as well and make some more money. Both parties get what they want.
That's why it's called negotiations. Maybe not ideal for the fans, but well, it's how business works.
Well, yeah. That's what I'm saying. But again, it's not like Sony cares about any of that, and Marvel Studios knew that going in. Everyone on the internet already did.
Officially it won't be MCU, in your head canon it can be (hell anything can be in your headcanon, Planet of the Apes can be a part of your MCU head canon if you want it enough), and for casual audiences it won't make a difference at all. Sony definitely doesn't care enough to just not make the movie - they'd miss out on millions of dollars. And Marvel Studios won't bother using Venom in one of their movies since it'll just add to the confusion. Hell, they can't use Venom anyway without Sony's permission, and Sony already decided they're going to use him in this way.
Consider the tv shows. People involved on the movie side have repeatedly said that chances that the movies will acknowledge them are very, very low. Still, some people consider it a part of the MCU. Officially they are marketed as that. Doesn't make much of a difference in the end.
No chance Spider-Man will be in these movies.
http://variety.com/2015/film/news/sony-hack-peter-parker-spider-man-white-straight-1201524150/
serenewarfare
Banned
Comparing 90's Marvel to 2017 Marvel is a fool's errand. Could not be more different.
And yeah, Sony can do what they want, but if that was the deal I just don't see a reason why Marvel would have ever taken it. They didn't need Spiderman in the MCU. They wanted him, but didn't need him. And they are such sticklers for quality control that I just can't believe they would agree to a deal that would take that out of their hands.
But they don't. If Sony goes out and makes terrible spin-off movies with Spider-Man, that damages his value to Marvel. That's the reason Sony is pretty much completely uninvolved in the creative aspects of Homecoming. Marvel cares way too much about having their movies and characters represented a certain way.
The Artisan
Member
wouldn't that mean these films are an extension of the MCU like Netflix is?
would sony have the rights to miles?
The Artisan
Member
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
They took it because it was free. Sony is literally letting them use the character for free.
If Sony somehow negotiated a deal that allowed Marvel to limit the use of the character that they fully own and they received no money for it then they would be the worst negotiators in history.
HammerOfThor
Member
So the only thing Marvel has any rights to or involvement with is Spider-Man and the flagship Spider-Man movies?
Or is it just Homecoming and they get to use him for the rest of Phase 3?
Or is it just Homecoming and they get to use him for the rest of Phase 3?
broncobuster
Banned
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
Hero venom and ghost Rider team
Do that.
Do that.
darkhunger
Member
No. Because the MCU is a Disney IP. Sony doesn't have permission to use it beyond their collaborations with Marvel, so they cannot officially make that claim.
Exactly, just like Marvel is letting Sony use Iron Man for free. Nothing indicates that Marvel isn't allowed to use Iron Man anymore just because the latter appears in a Sony-funded movie.
Just use 616 Venom in the 2099 universe, nobody will know or care.
...wait, does Sony have the rights to non-Spider 2099 characters?
serenewarfare
Banned
That makes no sense though. If there's no money involved, then literally the only thing Marvel could want out of the character is that he's treated well enough to have value to their universe. And that doesn't happen if Sony puts him in terrible movies.
And plus, Sony is absolutely making big money off of this. They get all of the money from Homecoming. All of it. And that movie will make more because it is using MCU characters like Iron Man.
They have the rights to the entire Spiderman property. So yes.
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