-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch ranked competitive matchmaking is the most one sided atrocity EVER.
- Thread starter TheSadRanger
- Start date
Not a fan of the game being paused, but even pulling a player out of QP/Ranked and making him fill in(without affecting his SR what so ever, just give some random incentive like more exp if the team win or something) is a better fix than going 5v6. Hell, even just allowing the MIA player to rejoin even after the two minute would be a better fix(while still getting the penalty) is better than what they have right now.
This is solid advice. From my own experience, usually I (or we if I queue with a friend) win when there is voice communication. Not text chat, voice communication. Better teamwork and much more coordination. Not saying that isn't possible with text chat, but it is way harder.
And usually, I lose when no one wants to talk, either using voice chat or text chat. Or when they want to do whatever they want and put a completely dysfunctional team...
JershJopstin
Banned
More specifically, it's proportional to how long you played at a disadvantage. If you play an entire match 3v4, losing will drop you one measly point, but if someone drops in the last 5 seconds before a loss I don't think there's any compensation. Personally, I think it's a pretty good system, but I'm too unfamiliar with Overwatch to say if it'd translate well or not.
Stacks can make things wonky, especially at high master/GM level, but matches with three stacks or above (because the game overvalues them and puts them way higher than they should be) are the only ones I've seen giant discrepancies in.
This is kind of a contradiction because if your team spends most of the match dead then you're not actually carrying?
Like it or not, the timing of your kills is as important as if you get them in this game. If you frag out multiple times but only when everybody else is dead and the enemy has already reinforced and overwhelmed you by the time your team gets back then your contribution is pretty meaningless and your team is basically playing 5v6 (which leads to the irony of these people frequently whining about their "useless team"). While a lot of it is unjustified this is a major reason why snipers and a lot of "bu... but my gold medals!!!" people get flak. Even if they do it a bunch, if a Widow or Hanzo is just getting kills at random times, rather than when the team actually needs them, then they're not doing much, and if they really are that good, then, in that situation, they'd be better as a class who can contest the objective AND murder people. Conversely a Widow who "only" gets fifteen kills in a match but decides every teamfight is the kind who is actually terrifying.
There are certainly games where you are just hopeless however good you are (even top-rank smurfs lose at bottom ranks every so often), but if you're genuinely better than your rank, and understand the fundamentals of the flow of the game, it's a matter of time before you climb.
This is kind of a contradiction because if your team spends most of the match dead then you're not actually carrying?
Like it or not, the timing of your kills is as important as if you get them in this game. If you frag out multiple times but only when everybody else is dead and the enemy has already reinforced and overwhelmed you by the time your team gets back then your contribution is pretty meaningless and your team is basically playing 5v6 (which leads to the irony of these people frequently whining about their "useless team"). While a lot of it is unjustified this is a major reason why snipers and a lot of "bu... but my gold medals!!!" people get flak. Even if they do it a bunch, if a Widow or Hanzo is just getting kills at random times, rather than when the team actually needs them, then they're not doing much, and if they really are that good, then, in that situation, they'd be better as a class who can contest the objective AND murder people. Conversely a Widow who "only" gets fifteen kills in a match but decides every teamfight is the kind who is actually terrifying.
There are certainly games where you are just hopeless however good you are (even top-rank smurfs lose at bottom ranks every so often), but if you're genuinely better than your rank, and understand the fundamentals of the flow of the game, it's a matter of time before you climb.
old manatee
Banned
LordKasual
Banned
You trying to climb in a multiplayer ranked game? Get this in your head ASAP, the ranking system will not be fair to you.
You either:
1) Get lucky with your team (and your enemy's)
2) Be so good that you offset the difference of the idiots on your team (even for players who are ACTUALLY good, this is still entirely unreliable)
3) Boost your chances of winning by only playing ranked with friends who's skill level you can accurately judge. ( this is your best solution)
Solo queue will never be a fully skill-based endeavor.
MikeBison
Member
Absolutely not true. Between leavers, trolls, 24/7 junk rat mains, people who don't know team comp, people who refuses to wait to push as a 6 man, people who can't manage cults effectively, their is way too much focus on your team helping you out to always rise rank.
I'm not saying that I play out of my skin every second of every game, but more often than not i do.
Average 45 elims a game as Zarya. Several hours on fire. Always getting good Gravs with 3+ targets in. Burning down priority targets first. Saving people with bubbles every 8 seconds from a hook or pin etc. I should be winning more games than I do.
Average scenario playing OW on console:
*attacking second point Anubis*
We go in as a team and 4 people are wiped out. Me and soldier left.
I book it out of there with the soldier, the push is done. I spam group cup but that soldier just has to try and find a pick whilst all our team is dead. He dies. I go all the way back to spawn to tell the 4 respawning players to wait for the solider. They ignore it, they go in a little 4 man and get wiped. Rinse repeat.
finally do group the 6 of us up. I make it very clear to the Pharah who has an ult that I have a Grav, she doesn't wait. She spunks it all into a Rein shield/Defence matrix rather than waiting for the grav. (I wasn't being slow on initiation, but wanted to burn the DVA out of her suit first, which would have only taken a few seconds). Then we die. Our Mercy rep's even though we have no advantage coming off that rez.
I'm not saying i'm top 10 stuck in diamond, because then obviously I'd be a pro, but being stuck in diamond is for fucking real. Honestly, some of the shit that goes on in diamond is worse than plat.
People sulk that they can't play mercy or whoever and so they go attack torb and Sym. Shit sucks.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Their matchmaking really is pretty terrible. I haven't touched the game since last year.
mullet2000
Member
I agree, actually. People would cool off a lot more if they knew hitting plat meant staying at 2500, etc.
Get a grip
MikeBison
Member
Oh and to add, I am literally pulling my hair out at teamates that just stand at a choke point poking like every fucking game. I'll go Pharah and get a pick or two immediately at the start of an attack but then your team stands there at the choke being a Rein shield instead of pushing in with some speed. In-fucking-furiating.
The Last Wizard
Member
Not too mention the possibility of smurfs. It's like if you're in the low tiers your stuck there since your team will always be trash. Practically impossible to break outta it unless you've got the devil's luck or go with a 6 man team.
Rank shouldn't be based on wining vs losing as that isn't really a skill indicator since you could be an amazing team player but your team is just horrible. But blizzard won't fix anything cause they making money off lootboxes, if people stop buying that it'd send a message right away.
Rank shouldn't be based on wining vs losing as that isn't really a skill indicator since you could be an amazing team player but your team is just horrible. But blizzard won't fix anything cause they making money off lootboxes, if people stop buying that it'd send a message right away.
My other favourite
- Mercy and her friend die whilst team is respawning.
- Team respawn and run off before Mercy respawns.
- Most die as Mercy has respawned. She tries to save one survivor.
- Repeat
Exactly, if I get paired with the players that want to throw, atleast they arent taking anything away from me in the process.
If you haven't touched the game since last year how can you make a claim the matchmaking is terrible if a lot of changes have happened since you stopped playing?
Do you see the problem with your statement?
I'm a GM Ana/Zarya main on PC. Career/Season high is 4257.
Season 2 placed in Plat, climbed to 3900.
Season 3 placed in Diamond, climbed to 4100.
Season 4 placed in Masters, climbed to 4257.
As you can see, improvements over each season leading to increasing in my placement ranks and internal/external MMR. My point stands, ELO hell doesn't exist. It's hard for people to understand that they belong in the rank they are in.
calavera_jo
Neo Member
I feel you man. I think when you get near the 2600 mark, you get queued with the lower-diamond tear. They seem like players that got carried to diamond and sink without their buddies to help them out.
Every so often I get a pair of diamonds that refuse to get on voice chat and will pick Hanzo/Sym/Sombra on offense for some reason
MikeBison
Member
"Hey buddy, could you possibly change please, don't think the attack symmetra is working, we could do with another tank like DVA or Hog."
"I bought the game with my own money so I can play it however I want"
Nah bruv, your hindering everyone elses enjoyment in a competitive game mode. Keep that shit to quick play.
"I bought the game with my own money so I can play it however I want"
Nah bruv, your hindering everyone elses enjoyment in a competitive game mode. Keep that shit to quick play.
The match is usually lost right at the character select screen. As soon as someone picks some off-meta pick, it's like the tryhard whining symbol shines in the sky for all to see. Team comp barely matters until like, mid-diamond. People are better off picking their best character. If you are as good you think you are, you will move up.
The game should have a role preference setting for competitive to minimize having something like 3 widow mains on one team, otherwise this is as good as it's going to get.
The game should have a role preference setting for competitive to minimize having something like 3 widow mains on one team, otherwise this is as good as it's going to get.
The biggest fix still MIA is separating solo and team. It doesn't make sense to have a comp of 4 + 2 versus a group of 6 randoms. Specifically, since it always averages the groups. I.E. Putting a 3000 person and a 2200 person together, is not equal to two 2600 people. Very few times, they are even. Either one team gets stuck with someone who can barely function and can only play one role to suit their friend. Or the higher rank person is simply that much better than the rest of the players in the game.
calavera_jo
Neo Member
Got a weirdo that told me "Fuck off, winning is for losers" the other day after picking Hanzo
LordKasual
Banned
NOPE. It absolutely does.
The problem with ELO Hell isn't that it's impossible to climb out of. It's that ELO Hell is like....a region of statistical uncertainty. The mindsets of the players in low ELO have waaaaaaaaay more variance than the ones in higher ELO, and this sometimes makes it impossible to effectively play as a team.
It's not so much a matter of skill to climb out of low ELO regions. Sometimes you have to literally stop playing the game correctly to be effective
If you are good enough, you WILL climb out.....eventually. But unless you're SIGNIFICANTLY better than your opponents, it's still going to more or less be the difference between 50/50 and 60/40. The seesawing becomes a serious morale killer, people fall into tilt, and yet another ELO Hell demon is born
I go back and forth on this. I dont mind playing against teams, but what gets under my skin is when there are true diamonds pairing with silvers so they can play lower ranks.
There is no way that you actually believe this. This is a 6v6 game. Your solo performance will never outweigh a shitty performance by your other 5 team mates, no matter how amazing you are.
old manatee
Banned
They're not wrong..
MikeBison
Member
My stats have improved steadily season on season as I said before, how do you explain me climbing (within the first 2-3 days of every season) to high diamond/just before masters and staying there all season, then winning 7-8 of my placement matches and then getting placed in fucking GOLD. 2 seasons in a row.
As for your climb, it's worth mentioning that it's much easier to communicate with team mates on PC. It's a fucking wasteland on console, it really is. I'd be fine with staying in diamond if I was inconsistent and we were winning a few, to then lose a few clothes games. But on console it's either steam roll or get steam rolled based on the RNG wheel of fortune of potential team mates. The amount of people at diamond in overwatch without even a fundamental understanding of how to play is shocking.
Lucky Seven
Banned
Wow, mad much? Obviously, there are reasons to see a match like that occur. Being near top of the tier, you end up in those matches more often than not.
The matchmaking does a solid job of putting teams against teams. If you go solo queue and get matched up against a 4 stack chances are there's a 4stack on your team or maybe a team of three and a duo. Again it's not perfect but it's not like a team of 6 randoms goes up against a 6 stack all the time.
Now your 4 stack might be worse than their 4 stack but hey that's life.
UltimaPooh
Member
Yea I'm not buying the discrepancies here.
Just do three things.
1. Get a mic and communicate. Call out stuff. Ask your teammates where their Ult charge is at. Form strategy with em. Learn to read the stat screen to find out who has ults. Then use them smartly by communicating how to use your ult economy. Turn the kill feed on and keep an eye on it.
2. Learn positioning for your characters. If your supports it's rare you should be on the opposite side of the Tanks and DPS. Are you a flanking DPS? Are you knocking out their supports first? Are you a tank? Are you doing your best to control an area and crowd control the opposite team? Do you know the best LOS for your characters? Do you know the best choke points?
3. Get a Hero pool that is more than 2. You don't need to be amazing at all of em but have three your great at and a few more you're okay at that you can help fill. If you get a team of people who only know supports your screwed. You have to be able to adapt and adapt quick. Switch off if it's not working. Learn which characters counter which.
Edit: I'm on console and there is typically at least one random with the rest listening in on mics.
But I also do a small stack with GAFers to rank up.
Just do three things.
1. Get a mic and communicate. Call out stuff. Ask your teammates where their Ult charge is at. Form strategy with em. Learn to read the stat screen to find out who has ults. Then use them smartly by communicating how to use your ult economy. Turn the kill feed on and keep an eye on it.
2. Learn positioning for your characters. If your supports it's rare you should be on the opposite side of the Tanks and DPS. Are you a flanking DPS? Are you knocking out their supports first? Are you a tank? Are you doing your best to control an area and crowd control the opposite team? Do you know the best LOS for your characters? Do you know the best choke points?
3. Get a Hero pool that is more than 2. You don't need to be amazing at all of em but have three your great at and a few more you're okay at that you can help fill. If you get a team of people who only know supports your screwed. You have to be able to adapt and adapt quick. Switch off if it's not working. Learn which characters counter which.
Edit: I'm on console and there is typically at least one random with the rest listening in on mics.
But I also do a small stack with GAFers to rank up.
McStickenstein
Member
The more I read this thread, the more I realize this is a problem with every competitive shooter I've ever played. It's the nature of these games, and no on has figured out how to solved the feeling of imbalanced matches, whether or not the matches are actually one sided.
Everyone thinks they are better than they are and want to blame everything but themselves. Everyone that plays the game is going to deal with the same bad teams, leavers, throwers and whatever. I'm "stuck" in diamond but it's no one's fault but my own for not being a better player overall and more people need to accept that.
MikeBison
Member
The problem is never an off-meta pick because you can balance a team around that effectively, it's a whole team of off meta picks. A junkrat, Mei, reaper, mercy, hanzo, Orisa team will lose 99.9% of the time to more meta centric team. You still need the basics covered to win.
calavera_jo
Neo Member
wrong or not is not the issue. How can your rank go up with a team mate that pulls shit like that?
LordKasual
Banned
Plat is not ELO Hell. There are morons in plat, but that is not the same thing.
It is way easier to climb in ELOs with "decent" players than to climb when it's basically a random pick of people who are "decent", "good", "terrible", and "lol just a game bro"
The dynamic is completely different. Skill variance is much tighter among people who are closer to the top.
If those people are playing their favorite character, then that's not even that bad. I've won in comp with weirder, no tanks and double sniper. It's time to calm down and stop laying blame.
All extremely solid tips to get better. #2 is specially important for personal improvement while #1 is great for better team improvement. #3 is just plain smart. getting an understanding of strenghts and weaknesses for a lot of characters let you deal with those characters when you encounter them on the opposing team.
I don't play it but when i watch streams i always find it weird that the higher level players won't group up in more than duos. Like you literally see them write 'duo only' when they get a message asking them to join but it would take them to a three. I've seen Seagull quit groups because it would be more than a duo. Something is fucked when people would rather not play with friends in a competitive game.
Yup. moonmoon would only ever duo queue (hes doing full solo queue this season). When he and seagull and a few of the NRG guys did a full 6 queue, they got sniped by another 6 queue.
This guy gets it.
MikeBison
Member
It's possible to, but you're just playing challenge mode. Why not give you and your team mates the best chance possible?
Then they can play other teams. Like life. This game is more DOTA than FPS anyways, so I would say adopting their system would be ideal rather than the typical FPS. Since the game depends more on picks than anything else.
UltimaPooh
Member
People also need to learn to stop playing after like 2 or 3 loses. You're gonna tilt and you're gonna lose more SR. Take a break and play quick play or go do something else and come back later.
Remember to move up it's a marathon not a sprint.
Remember to move up it's a marathon not a sprint.
EscapeArtist
Banned
This exact thing happened to me the last time I played the game. Lost all night long and I haven't gone back since. I sometimes get the temptation to play....and then I remember that I COULD just be jumping back in to a terrible losing streak and play something else.
MikeBison
Member
Because I know where I need to improve and make adjustments when things aren't working.
Then again, I'm not playing Torb on king of the hill without building a turret. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
I already said I don't think I'm the best player around or anything, but It's shocking the amount of people in diamond even that don't know the fundamentals of fighting as a group of 6.
Wish it forced you to watch a match of pro overwatch before you played competitive.
No its not, what you described following that statement means you aren't fully carrying your team. What you described is for your team to be mildly competent as you still need them to be open to working together and strategic maneuvers. What you are hoping for is an auto sync.
A true carry (to me) means that your team can do whatever they want and your skill negates it entirely if you play a character that has good self sustain. If the other team is just as terrible it shouldn't matter. And that only works for certain modes to an extent.
It doesn't always really help to get someone to play characters they aren't comfortable with just because they make more sense. Someone playing Reinhardt or Ana badly is very noticeable and a real detriment to the team, more than if they just used what they are best with.