I keep hearing different info. Plat is ELO hell, Gold is ELO hell, Diamond is ELO hell...
So which one is it? It can't be all of them.
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Overwatch ranked competitive matchmaking is the most one sided atrocity EVER.
- Thread starter TheSadRanger
- Start date
I keep hearing different info. Plat is ELO hell, Gold is ELO hell, Diamond is ELO hell...
So which one is it? It can't be all of them.
Another competitive game but the same song and dance of complaints for why the ladder system supposedly isn't working. Instead of whining over every bit of SR you lose and relying on the dopamine rush of gaining SR to get your temporary high, how about you focus on your personal gameplay, track improvement, and work towards mastery of your characters? You think players who thrive in these types of games give innocuous complaints like "I lost TEN games in a ROW" like you're owed winning games after a certain quota or some shit. And the specific anecdotes going into detail about teammate X doing Y in game Z. You think anyone else actually gives a fuck that isn't already circle jerking about some other specific scenario with you. What the fuck am I even reading here lmao. Coping to the max.
These aren't single-player games where the devs can constantly make you feel good and never make you feel bad if you place your personal value in that rating number. Consider that the system is consistent enough that boosting for money exists. It's also consistent enough that the customers fall back to their old rating given enough games.
These aren't single-player games where the devs can constantly make you feel good and never make you feel bad if you place your personal value in that rating number. Consider that the system is consistent enough that boosting for money exists. It's also consistent enough that the customers fall back to their old rating given enough games.
MikeBison
Member
If you can play 2 or 3 characters it's highly unlikely that they're all out of the meta.
And if the only characters you play are out of the meta and you don't even play them particularly well, then you probably shouldn't play competitive.
whichever one i'm in
When people peak at their skill level they think where they are is the ELO hell rather than seeing it as being their skill has hit their max
ersocaster
Member
Guild Wars 2 gives quitters a couple minute ban to ranked matches if you quit, and any person you are partied with. The enemy team still gain rank, but the disadvantaged team doesn't lose any. The penalty gets worse the more you do it.
That's just one solution. Be creative.
You can try teaming up with Gaffers in the OW OT.
Divide the SR penalty of the person who left amongst those who stayed.
Person that leaves would be -50 and the 5 that stay should get +10 each.
As someone who once went on a ~12 game losing streak from low masters down to high plat (in retrospect it wasn't undeserved, as I came out of it a much more rounded player), if you deserve where you were you should be able to carry most of the way back pretty easily. At plat I could slampick Soldier and carry almost every game with tons of kills on top of supporting my team (after finding my usual support and tanks picks a big gamble there). As a tank/support main at GM if I play DPS it feels like I'm throwing, yet at plat I seemed godlike even when I was a much worse player than I am now.
Yeah I didn't even realise how badly tilt affected me until I really started paying attention to how I felt after multiple losses with no break. Now I notice much more when I'm starting to become a worse player due to tilt.
Also, if you keep getting stuck with trolls/shitty players/leavers etc another bonus of taking a break is that it essentially "refreshes" the player pool and ensures you shouldn't get any of those people again.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I'm really not sure what you're talking about. The game shows you average SR at the start and 95% of games are within 50 or so of eachother.
Lol. There are so many smurfs this would get hilariously abused in the worst way.
I wanted also say that the reason the games are so chaotic and people claim that everything is "ELO hell" might be because the game tries to find your individual skill level in 10 matches, on top of that, they don't wipe your comp MMR despite you being better. So a legacy player will always be lower than he really should be each season if he has improved. On top of this before you get into Masters and above you may be playing in matches where players are mechanically very good but may suffer with in depth strategic comprehension. That may be the only difference in some ranks.
Well-said. Overwatch seems to be a lot of people's first competitive game. These threads give me deja vu from season one LoL.
Oublieux
Member
Honestly, that's bound to happen in any competitive game. Too many of these posts are emphasizing losses in the short term.
Over the long term, the games should actually balance out and plateau in terms of wins/losses, which determines where your placement is.
These uncontrollable factors that are being mentioned, such as leavers and "bad" team compositions, are something every player has a chance of encountering (and have probably encountered).
LordKasual
Banned
For me? Well below plat. I'm talking Silver, maybe early plat. Plat usually has halfway competent people who can capitalize on openings, you'll get your typical moron from time to time but that's just the nature of the game.
To be honest, Overwatch is a 6v6 game, but when it comes to "Elo Hell", it isn't halfway as bad as a game like League or something. Individual skill can slant situations much harder. But the concept absolutely still exists.
How so?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
You team up with a smurf and when the game goes south the smurf leaves. Smurf doesn't care about losing SR and every other teammate actually gains SR?
Yea that would never work.
I don't see it as being worth the time to climb that way. If it were +5 would it be less worth doing?
I mean, I'm sure they could track if certain players are part of a disproportionately high number of games where someone leaves.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
It's not 'climbing that way' you play normally but now you never lose. You're either gaining 20-30 for a win or gaining 5 or 10 for a loss. You would never be losing any SR whatsoever which is obviously a huge issue.
Even if teammates of the leaver gained nothing but also lost nothing it would be extremely easy to abuse.
That sounds about right.
I'll say a few things to the skill argument.
If you think you are not the issue. Then you're probably doing something wrong. Theoretically, if you are never the issue. Your team will always have a less chance to get that "baddie", troll, leaver, etc. Then the other team. Your team has 5 possible chances to get one, versus 6 for the other team. The odds should always be in your favor for a better team, as long as you are not the issue.
The other bit comes in, that this is not a shooter as much as a DOTA style game. You have roles you need to fill. I don't think the game is particularly high skill cap like Unreal or even hits close to Halo. Ammo is unlimited, health is plentiful, weapons are given, aiming isn't intensive, etc. But rather than the typical shooter aspects, they bring in the DOTA ones where you have to be aware of the map, cooldowns, and abilities of both your team and their team. It's not about reflexes(They help), it's really more about being aware of your surroundings. This is deceiving to a lot of players where the closest comparison is TF2, but that is much more of a shooter based on reflexes than this. Their are no classes in here that require for physical skill like Scout or Soldier.
This is why Hero selection is the most important aspect you can improve on. It increases your awareness of your teammates, enemies, and allows you to fill more gaps in the Meta. Stop thinking like a shooter basically.
These are things you need to look at before blaming others.
But in the defense, the biggest issue with it right now is the fact that it is closer to DOTA, than a shooter. While being treated like a shooter. A party of 4 with two randoms will mean the party of 4 will most likely be driving the team. It's an overwhelming flaw in DOTA games, while mild in shooters. In a shooter, your own personal skill can override a teammates. You are not forced into a role nor locked out of equipment. In DOTA on the other hand, you are forced into defined roles and locked out of equipment. Overwatch applies this. Pharah is a great example, if you are locked in as the tank, specifically Rein. There is very little you can do about her and have to rely on your team to make the adjustments. You can switch to Dva or Winston which are better for her, but that will still rely on the team making the adjustment to account for Rein's shield missing. The team needs to move regardless.
When you're stuck with a larger party, you are at their whim. Unlike a shooter, where you can possible push past the barrier regardless of the team. Every teammate here dampers than chance since every unit needs to fill a role. A single lower person can drag an entire team far more than a FPS. It's multiplied more when it's groups since it locks more equip and positions from your use. It's typically why they say it's best to get good at one or two roles that can hard carry. And sort of force your own will on the team. But again, this is always complicated with the current set up.
If you think you are not the issue. Then you're probably doing something wrong. Theoretically, if you are never the issue. Your team will always have a less chance to get that "baddie", troll, leaver, etc. Then the other team. Your team has 5 possible chances to get one, versus 6 for the other team. The odds should always be in your favor for a better team, as long as you are not the issue.
The other bit comes in, that this is not a shooter as much as a DOTA style game. You have roles you need to fill. I don't think the game is particularly high skill cap like Unreal or even hits close to Halo. Ammo is unlimited, health is plentiful, weapons are given, aiming isn't intensive, etc. But rather than the typical shooter aspects, they bring in the DOTA ones where you have to be aware of the map, cooldowns, and abilities of both your team and their team. It's not about reflexes(They help), it's really more about being aware of your surroundings. This is deceiving to a lot of players where the closest comparison is TF2, but that is much more of a shooter based on reflexes than this. Their are no classes in here that require for physical skill like Scout or Soldier.
This is why Hero selection is the most important aspect you can improve on. It increases your awareness of your teammates, enemies, and allows you to fill more gaps in the Meta. Stop thinking like a shooter basically.
These are things you need to look at before blaming others.
But in the defense, the biggest issue with it right now is the fact that it is closer to DOTA, than a shooter. While being treated like a shooter. A party of 4 with two randoms will mean the party of 4 will most likely be driving the team. It's an overwhelming flaw in DOTA games, while mild in shooters. In a shooter, your own personal skill can override a teammates. You are not forced into a role nor locked out of equipment. In DOTA on the other hand, you are forced into defined roles and locked out of equipment. Overwatch applies this. Pharah is a great example, if you are locked in as the tank, specifically Rein. There is very little you can do about her and have to rely on your team to make the adjustments. You can switch to Dva or Winston which are better for her, but that will still rely on the team making the adjustment to account for Rein's shield missing. The team needs to move regardless.
When you're stuck with a larger party, you are at their whim. Unlike a shooter, where you can possible push past the barrier regardless of the team. Every teammate here dampers than chance since every unit needs to fill a role. A single lower person can drag an entire team far more than a FPS. It's multiplied more when it's groups since it locks more equip and positions from your use. It's typically why they say it's best to get good at one or two roles that can hard carry. And sort of force your own will on the team. But again, this is always complicated with the current set up.
I dunno, my Attack Sym has put in some work, even when the whole team flames me. Yet the teleporter was the only thing that kept pressure on the point.
I think you can accept faults in not being a better player, and then getting better. But when you do become that better player, and still have unexperienced players, throwers, uncommunicative stacks, toxic players, people who rush in as a combo to most of your comp games, then what do you do?
How far does the carry go? You DPS but people rush in feed, die, trickle, so you Tank. When you tank nobody gets picks, or heals. So you switch to support, and nobody gets picks, or Rein does random charge, trickle, etc. How much can you expect to do if you run into games like this?
If the whole enemy team is like your team and you know what you're doing it's a little bit easier.
But if there is even one or two people on that team who notice that your the biggest obstacle and decide to take you out consistently, then no, you cannot carry that.
ELO Hell, whether real or not, who knows, but those problems I listed are constant issues I've faced in comp. And I'm still working to improve my gameplay and positioning, there's only so much one player can do in this situation.
You responded before my edit, but I added : I mean, I'm sure they could track if certain players are part of a disproportionately high number of games where someone leaves.
Also, there's a 10 minute ban for leaving already-- it's not worth the time to coordinate this kind of effort and it would be difficult to climb quickly.
ELO hell isnt just one group of rank. Its a section of SR, usually on the borders of one rank to the other, where you win/lose/win/lose over and over and never really gain or lose anything. You become stagnant.
Im not sure how this is so difficult for you to understand.
Thats the thing though, you dont have that happening EVERY match. If you have an inexperienced player, toxic player, DC , etc on your team, chances are, the enemy team has one as well. Another good thing is to find a duo partner to minimize your chances of all that. The good thing about OW is that the games are so short, you will be playing hundreds of matches within the 3-4 months that the season lasts. Its a grind, thats for sure, but its meant to be like that. There is a reason that GM players who smurf are able to climb out of gold/plat/diamond and go straight to master/gm within a short period of time. You can carry in this game, you just have to be good.
Well said, stupid team comps is the absolute most difficult thing to overcome in competitive when trying to random. I tend to play supports since they don't get picked to try and compensate for bad team comps. But it just stops being fun after a while when your choice is be the only tank or be the only healer. You know you have already lost the game before it starts when that happens and that is most competitive matches I see. Its not easy getting six people on to play, but its the only way to play comp imho.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
I've seen someone go from Bronze to Masters in one day. If you are as good as you think you are, you will climb. There are some characters that can carry easier like Tracer, Zarya or Genji. Of course you're not always going to win and you shouldn't expect to, but literally every single other player has to deal with the same conditions. You can see a lot of streamers make multiple alt accounts, picking whatever they like and always ending up right where they belong even with minimal communication.
Funny thing is I play on PS4 and know someone who started using KB&M recently and even with the advantage managed to stay right where he was anyway.
Hairsplash
Member
Well my solution is draconian... severe. But, some people do not learn unless slapped!. " figuratively or literally" figuratively is possible in online games... literally not so much.
The leaver losses 6xSR... draconian... yes, and if you get cut off, you must get back to the game. Or else.
And if it happens twice in a season for any reason, you get banned from competitive, and you are placed in a holding pool for competitive leavers where the only way to get back to normal competive play is you win the match with the team that you back filled.
You are not banned from quickplay... that is were you play, waiting for the "big leagues" to call you up, and fill in on a competitive match where you must win that competitive match... (if you do not win, you stay... that is the punishment... and the standard SR loss from the losing.)
Do not like this?, then do not leave!. And unfortunately the draconian part about this is if the Internet cut you off and you can't get back to the match you lose 6xSR. no mercy!.
In sports you are not forgiven for leaving, if you are injured, yes forgiven... But in overwatch you can not be injured so that reason is not an "excuse".
If this suggestion is impossible, then ban from competitive for a season after the second leave.
DO NOT START A COMPETITIVE MATCH IF YOU HAVE TO BE SOMEWHERE like dinner... or have flakey internet.
No you can't, to carry means your team can just stand there and you can solo the other team. If your team isnt remotely playing the game correctly you can not carry them. They have to be doing something constructive. If you depend on them for even 1 second you are not fully carrying them.
finalflame
Member
Get better at the game and it won't be so bad? Funny how good players seldom if ever have these overblown complaints, but most people stuck in diamond/plat/gold/silver who think they don't deserve their losses are always the most vocal.
Are some matches unbalanced? Yes, no system is perfect. But the only factor you can control is your own gameplay. so focus on that and the matches you can win. The game's matchmaking is nowhere near as "unbalanced" as you are making it out to be.
Are some matches unbalanced? Yes, no system is perfect. But the only factor you can control is your own gameplay. so focus on that and the matches you can win. The game's matchmaking is nowhere near as "unbalanced" as you are making it out to be.
I believe if you're stuck at the rank you are currently at you belong there. I watched a Symmetra only player go from Bronze to GM in less than 10 hours of playtime on Twitch. Why didn't he get stuck in "Elo hell"? He's obviously trolling his team by picking on off meta pick like Sym.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I don't know what to tell ya man. The entire basis of the ranking structure is that in a game of twelve 6 people gain SR and 6 people lose SR. Messing with that throws everything off.
Tracking something like that would be near impossible because everyone would do it.
Right now the leaver looses 50 SR and gets banned, with the amount of times my friends have lagged out just because of a bad connection or being in EU, that penalty is plenty.
Law of averages says that the enemy team will have a leaver as much as your team does. And despite leavers, throwers, etc. you still end up within a range of where you are supposed to be. So I don't really see it as a big issue. It can just be really annoying on a game to game basis.
I mean maybe the game says those people are good because they are winning consistently on the same ladder others aren't. Outside of the recent boosting issue (which is being worked on), people that stay high rank tend to actually be good. There are high elo players in the OW thread that consistently make good posts and play well when we get together, you can talk to them about what the ladder experience is like. It's not perfect, but a lot of the problems people are saying in this thread can honestly be solved with a case of the "git guds".
TroicaBlur
Member
Get good lol
I guess you and I have different terms of carrying. To carry for me in a game like overwatch means that you tell your team what to do on comms, communicate ults, you pick a carry hero like tracer, genji, roadhog, widow... pick people off and win? Its obviously not going to work every single game, but if you're good enough you'll be winning a ton more than losing thus SR gains.
Hairsplash
Member
Funny thing... K&M is not an advantage for me, my left hand experience using a keyboard is hunt and peck, so pretty much useless for gaming (and i do not want to put in the time to learn, and I mostly game on a ps4)
I just give up trying the keyboard and mouse on the PC, and use the xbox elite controller. (Used to use the PS4 controller, but got fed up with the icons not matching... i do wish the xbox elite controller had lit up buttons.)
You can carry up to a point. You won't win every single game like that, but what the other player above said is how you carry. I can make a brand new account today and get placed in gold and solo queue my way up to GM. Lots of people can, it's definitely possible to do it. I've actually done this from plat myself. Unless I'm just a liar or some super anomaly I think you're wrong.
UltimaPooh
Member
But are you putting in work that actually helps your team? Neat you can get kills with Miss Auto Aim... But how are you helping your team by taking a support role? Any competent team will just drop your super secret tele that you try to put behind their lines.
An attack tele doesn't help keep current momentum going like other supports do. If people die then it gives the other team time to prepare. And if people just trickle in via your tele then lol.
Kite
Member
The enemy team barely gets any SR when they win a game when an enemy player leaves so it's pretty much a waste of their time.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Your definition of carry is to play the game normally?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
False
I'm not really sure if I want to say you win or lose based on the initial pick. But it puts you at a disadvantage depending on it, you'll need to compensate for.
Agreed. I always thought "I'm doing well with Mercy, WTF is wrong?!" but when I went back and watched my games again, I could see the errors I was making consistently. Wrong placement, not using GA enough, not canceling GA when needed, using res at bad times, etc. Once I focused on myself, and fixing my errors, it made it easier for others to concentrate on their jobs.
Yeah, my friend I always play with is incredible at CoD. He came to OW thinking he could pick S76 and just run and gun and expect to win like in most CoD lobbies. After almost six months I'm just now getting him to realize that this is just a different type of game. Getting gold in elims and damage isn't a big accomplishment, it's just expected since I'm mainly a support player and our other friend is mainly Rein or DVa. He's getting used to making callouts like "RH used hook, Mercy rezzed, Junkrat trap on CD", etc. He's becoming more situationally aware, which in turn makes him a much better player. He already had the aim and reflexes.
Yep, I always tell new players to start out in Mystery Heroes. Sure you'll get rolled a lot particularly on defense, but it will expose you to all of the heroes' abilities and how they can affect the match. It's a great way to introduce new people.
I don't have much to add to that.
Go watch a stream of a higher ranked player and watch them do unranked to GM.. maybe you'll see what i actually mean. Its the movement / aim that separates good players from the bad ones.
-MD-
Member
I don't think I've ever seen the SR be within 50 of each other.