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[Crayolan]

Looks....ok. I dunno, just show us something other than Green Hill. Music was bleh.

 

[Sami+]

I don't understand Sonic games, they're very Kirby-eqsue in level design simplicity and lack of challenge. At least Kirby is about something; experimenting with power ups and obstacles designed around particular ones. I fail to see the point of the mechanics other than keeping them for the sake of tradition. Is Sonic mainly a platformer based around the jump button? If it's about speed, then why is it impossible to maintain it? Perhaps it's about overcoming obstacles using momentum, then what's up with all the parts that are practically on-rails? I think this format of Sonic is better suited as a runners game, that way you get the speed and a game designed entirely around maintaining it. I just can't get around this lack of direction and cohesiveness in its design.

Arcade philosophy, like other SEGA classics. The levels are designed to stop you and make it hard to look "cool" on your first run, with only little snippets of that in the bits that are more automated. It's supposed to encourage you to play the levels over and over and perfect your route. That style of design is practically absent nowadays though.

 

[ThatsMytrunks]

This is a little disappointing since it looks so close to Sonic Generations' take on Green Hill Zone. Also the sandfalls (sandy waterfalls?) look unfinished.

This is a strange, unceremonious gameplay footage drop.

 

[IronicSonic]

platforming was way more important to reaching high sections than speed ever was

the amount of times you roll off a slope into a high point on the map is relatively low in sonic games, in fact i'm having a hard time even thinking of one that isn't in like the first stage

The very first GH zone in Sonic, after the S tunnel gives you 3 path already (normal speed=medium path, low speed low path and high speed rewards with rings). Same in Star Light zone. In Sonic 2's Chem Plant you can see similar cases. Sonic 3 & Knuckles has a lot of this situations aswell. And that's top of my head.

Anyway, my point was Sonic has nothing to do with that automated level in Rayman Legends (And I love Rayman Legends and Origins)

 

[RagnarokX]

Sonic 2's introduction of the spindash does make gaining momentum/speed more easy than finding a spot to roll, but I'd argue it's nowhere near the gameplay-refocusing tool as you're making it out to be.

Sonic 2's levels are still designed around the core mechanics, the game is still entirely playable without using the spindash. It's true the spin dash can be used to get a boost in speed without building momentum, but it's not like the levels and the move are designed so that you can just spam it anywhere and clear levels solely by using the move without any risk. The move also actually holds contrast to its design, you also can't just initiate the spin dash when you're running/rolling any time; you have to actually stop and charge it for a bit before you can get decent speed with it.

Same applies to Sonic 3&K for the most part. There are some obstacles in some paths where you do need to use the move to proceed (like the breakable walls in Angel Island), but they're thankfully very rare moments throughout the game.

If you want to criticize a Sonic game where the spindash does apply as overpowered or rewriting the game's gameplay focus, that honor goes to Generations. You can just start the spindash regardless if you're running or rolling, and the move is strong enough you can use it to literally leap over levels; and the rolling physics aren't good enough to properly get around anywhere without using it.

I've said for a while now that the real father of Sonic should be considered Hirokazu Yasuhara. He was the Lead Game Designer of the Genesis games, and thus in charge of level design and gameplay in general. As great as Sonic's physics were, the level design was always more important imo. You can have games that do the physics right like Sonic CD, Knuckles Chaotix, and Sonic Advance 1 but without Yasuhara's level design the games suffer. Meanwhile Sonic Generations has garbage physics, but the level design gets pretty close to what Yasuhara would have done so the game still feels great. Obviously you need both to make a truly great Sonic game, but I feel the mediocre level design of the post-Yasuhara games has been the biggest detriment to the series.

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't get why people seem confused at why certain design principles of Sonic are balanced with other things.

To me it's like asking "If CoD is a shooter, why do you ever have to reload?"

 

[ViviOggi]

That music was incredibly annoying, a Chronicles tea

 

[gcncontroller]

I believe the correct title would be: Sonic forces Green Hill gameplay.

Underrated post

Anyway I'm pretty much in the "looks ok I guess but sounds horrid" camp. Can't comment on the physics but it does look a bit faster to start up than Generations which was my biggest hope! Really tired of Green Hill Zone but hopefully this is one of the few if not only legacy zone in the game

 

[LordKasual]

Sonic 2's introduction of the spindash does make gaining momentum/speed more easy than finding a spot to roll, but I'd argue it's nowhere near the gameplay-refocusing tool as you're making it out to be.

Sonic 2's levels are still designed around the core mechanics, the game is still entirely playable without using the spindash. It's true the spin dash can be used to get a boost in speed without building momentum, but it's not like the levels and the move are designed so that you can just spam it anywhere and clear levels solely by using the move without any risk. The move also actually holds contrast to its design, you also can't just initiate the spin dash when you're running/rolling any time; you have to actually stop and charge it for a bit before you can get decent speed with it.

Same applies to Sonic 3&K for the most part. There are some obstacles in some paths where you do need to use the move to proceed (like the breakable walls in Angel Island), but they're thankfully very rare moments throughout the game.

If you want to criticize a Sonic game where the spindash does apply as overpowered or rewriting the game's gameplay focus, that honor goes to Generations. You can just start the spindash regardless if you're running or rolling, and the move is strong enough you can use it to literally leap over levels; and the rolling physics aren't good enough to properly get around anywhere without using it.

I feel like the spindash was so ridiculous in Generations because the game had no actual physics for real momentum. It sent you so fast that it was basically unusable, but it was the only way to really gain any speed in the game since Sonic controlled like he was dragging an invisible corpse behind him and rolled like his back was lined with velcro. So its hilarious to see people praising Generations' classic gameplay like it was something special...it was mostly boring and i wish the whole game was just in 3D because that's what the engine was clearly designed for.

I bring up the Spindash because Sonic 1 was honestly the only sonic game that was actually momentum-based when it came to gaining and maintaining speed, you HAD to use the terrain to go faster in that game. The others give you ways to gain more, but if you ever screw up, all you have to do is stand still. But that's okay, because after Sonic 1, the game started focusing alot more on making its platforming interesting than it did about super speed.

Stages still HAD crazy sections that only exist for speed, but people pretending like they required some kind of skill to traverse just have poor memory.

They're kinda all over the place in Sonic 3.

Anyway, does my heart good to see people on GAF being critical of Gens' version of Classic Sonic. Maybe we can finally purge this completely useless and arbitrary gameplay split from the ST games and get to work on a single solitary gameplay style that incorporates a few classic elements back into an actual 3D environment, like the good ol' days.

Maybe.

2.5D sonic in general needs to just die in Sonic games. They need to just continue tweaking their 3D and stop with the lazy spline switches halfway through the levels.

Sonic needs to look at what Nintendo accomplished with SM3D World, how they managed to incorporate 2D gameplay while maintaining 3D control and mechanics. The spline 2D modern gameplay needs to exist for very niche parts of the levels.

The most exciting thing about was seeing the older stages and mechanics reimagined in beautiful 3D HD....but that loses its novelty when you switch the stage to 2D and it just becomes a worse version of a stage you already played...and in the Dreamcast up until PS3 era, it becomes a 2D version of a stage you already played in full 3D.

It's holding them back, i sware. Does anyone actually have more fun in the 2D sections than they do in the 3D ones? And Generations Modern actually had really good pathing for many of the 3D levels. It just always gets ruined when it switches to 2D.

 

[RagnarokX]

Underrated post

Anyway I'm pretty much in the "looks ok I guess but sounds horrid" camp. Can't comment on the physics but it does look a bit faster to start up than Generations which was my biggest hope! Really tired of Green Hill Zone but hopefully this is one of the few if not only legacy zone in the game

Sonic forces Green Hill. Gameplay? Springs: 2017.

 

[March of the Crabs]

Looks good to me but maybe I'm weird.

 

[GraRuss]

Not feeling the depth of the platforms, background looks pointlessly accessible whilst being inaccessible leaving the player sadly stuck in the foreground.

 

[IronicSonic]

Sonic forces Green Hill. Gameplay? Springs: 2017.

.

 

[Akainu]

That music is horrible. Maybe it's just me but everything just kinds of blends together in 3d.

 

[Farsi]

Maybe it was because I was just listening to "Supporting Me - Sonic Adventure 2 Music Extended" like an hour ago but I was not digging that GHZ ost. The one thing I always expect from a hyped up Sonic game is the soundtrack being damn good. Would be super disheartening if the soundtrack ends up being bad.

 

[Kenstar]

Green Hill again? When it first reappeared in Sonic Adventure 2, it was a mindblowing treat. Then as time has gone on and it's been used over and over.. and over..

It's time for Emerald Hill.

Green Hill Zone has changed. It's no longer about learning controls, being a fun intro. It's an endless series of nostalgia baiting, fought by marketers and machines. Green Hill Zone, has become a well-oiled machine.
Green Hill Zone has changed.
Washed up devs putting washed up zones with washed up music in their washed up games. The Anti-creativity inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Memory control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
Green Hill Zone has changed.
The age of innovation has become the age of nostalgia. All in the name of averting catastrophe from the poor historical sonic sales. And he who controls the fanbase's response, controls history.
Green Hill Zone has changed.
When the sonic games forget what made it good, Green Hill Zone... becomes routine.

 

[gcncontroller]

Sonic forces Green Hill. Gameplay? Springs: 2017.

LOL well played! 👏

 

[Mister Wolf]

Seeing that gameplay just makes me want Sonic Mania all the more.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

For me Sonic just doesn't work in 3D and Sonic Mania proves this by looking loads better in every way. Full 3D or 3D side scrolling just makes Sonic look weird and stiff.

 

[TheCongressman1]

For me Sonic just doesn't work in 3D and Sonic Mania proves this by looking loads better in every way. Full 3D or 3D side scrolling just makes Sonic look weird and stiff.

The graphics aren't the cause of that at all.

 

[Nepenthe]

2.5D sonic in general needs to just die in Sonic games. They need to just continue tweaking their 3D and stop with the lazy spline switches halfway through the levels.

Sonic needs to look at what Nintendo accomplished with SM3D World, how they managed to incorporate 2D gameplay while maintaining 3D control and mechanics. The spline 2D modern gameplay needs to exist for very niche parts of the levels.

The most exciting thing about was seeing the older stages and mechanics reimagined in beautiful 3D HD....but that loses its novelty when you switch the stage to 2D and it just becomes a worse version of a stage you already played...and in the Dreamcast up until PS3 era, it becomes a 2D version of a stage you already played in full 3D.

It's holding them back, i sware. Does anyone actually have more fun in the 2D sections than they do in the 3D ones? And Generations Modern actually had really good pathing for many of the 3D levels. It just always gets ruined when it switches to 2D.

I think so long as people consider Sonic nothing more than "guy who runs in one direction really fast and does nothing else of note," 2.5D is gonna be a necessity for both variety's sake and for allowing the player some sense of meaningful platforming. In Unleashed, it was an interesting compromise that worked really well, because the camera switches where in and of themselves signals to the player about the obstacles that were coming up and that you should be prepared to either slow down or boost off. It also made certain obstacles make sense- the nonsensical rolling docks in Jungle Joyride Day's beginning would not be as endearing or navigable from a 3D viewpoint. And these little moments are littered all over the place and make the game have a kinda of satisfying slow-fast-slow-fast rhythm to it. They not only thought up something unique and good to wash the 06 taste out of everyone's mouths, but kinda nailed it on the first try. It's amazing looking back.

But you fuckers hated Unleashed so we had to settle for goddamn fucking mediocre Sonic Colors and Gens after Unleashed's director left in shame.

Now, to me, Generations as an idea with which to base the franchise on going forward was just kind of a crock of shit. Like, the idea of separating Sonic into two different characters with their own abilities versus one gameplay style that takes the best of both worlds into account is stupid as fuck. The act of throwing in a bunch of old levels with absolutely none of the surrounding context that made them as iconic and memorable as they are was also stupid as fuck, regardless of the style of gameplay within them. Not taking into account the fact that a lot of the level design and quirks that made the older levels what they were would inevitably be lost in translation to the modern gameplay style, because the modern gameplay style is different from classic gameplay and the faux-classic 3D stuff of SA1 and SA2 was a dumb as fuck oversight. Honestly, Generations works best when you consider it a meta-aware celebration of the franchise's birthday and nothing else.

But apparently I'm the only one who got that memo because now we have Generations 2 and the cracks are showing. Because people who don't really understand Sonic's mechanics sure have a hell of a lot to say to Sega about how the franchise should be dictated. THANKS GUYS.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

The graphics aren't the reason for that at all.

I've never liked how Sonic looks in 3D really, his 2D running animation looks far better than his 3D animations. The physics look off again too, Sonic seems to stop on the spot with no momentum in a few places on that video, it just looks odd. Sonic Mania looks a million times better than this, it probably plays a lot better too.

Obviously I've not played Forces yet to compare but I've had hands on with Mania last year and it feels exactly like Sonic did back in the day (really good) something which non of the 3D games have really nailed, at least not for me anyway and Forces looks to be the same.

 

[Winters]

Dunno if this reworking of the trailer has been posted yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR9_CQR-bKQ

The music lol.

Spoiler

Sonic Forces Suicide

 

[theofficefan99]

Looks serviceable but nothing I'd be excited for. I'm looking forward to the Modern Sonic stuff. I prefer Boost Sonic over Classic Sonic gameplay even though the original Sonics were some of my first games. Guess I'm a gamer with shit taste.

 

[Sami+]

That the gameplay looks bad, like every Sonic game? That the music sounds bad? Like every Sonic game?

There's a lot of bad Sonic games, there's plenty of really excellent ones as well. This music composition sounds completely different from anything we've had in the past, even if you weren't a fan of that.

Personally I think almost all of the 3D games that came after Adventure 1 are fucking horrible but the music has at least been stellar, and sounds literally nothing like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8cLe9ZUh1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4oUJcTfVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYETxzi2LhU

I've played my fair share of Sonic games over the years. Including Generations, which is said to be one of the better ones. I wouldn't call myself aggressively ignorant. I'm just trying to see what you fans see in this and other than nostalgia I can't explain why people still care about it. I remember all the hype about Sonic 4 and how that tuned out too.

I don't mind you liking Sonic, I just don't understand what Sonic fans even want at this point. All of this looks the same. I can't be the only one.

Nobody was hyped about Sonic 4, actually. I don't know what to tell you other than that you're wrong and it's not at all the same, and I say that as someone who doesn't even like these games much. The most recent 3D Sonic game I look back fondly on was Adventure and even that one aged really badly. The reason I check out videos of the new stuff is because Sonic 3 and Adventure were just that good.

Mania looks absolutely incredible. This doesn't. You're free to like what you like, but to say they look the same would just be objectively wrong, because they don't, at all.

 

[TheCongressman1]

I've never liked how Sonic looks in 3D really, his 2D running animation looks far better than his 3D animations. The physics look off again too, Sonic seems to stop on the spot with no momentum in a few places on that video, it just looks odd. Sonic Mania looks a million times better than this.

Mania does look far better. But again, the physics have nothing to do with the art direction. It's because Sonic Team is either incapable of recreating classic movement, or just doesn't care to.

 

[Babymario26]

This is surprising.

I'm okay with the music but it really gives off Sonic 4 vibes which most of fanbase hated so, if it is indicative of entire game, why? What really concerns me personally is physics and specifically a lot of Sonic halting, it seems even more pronounced than in Generations. Or is that supposed to be a "twist"?

I agree with the band-aid level design notion, that was one thing that Generations' classic acts contained but it wasn't as obvious/annoying at least. For what it's worth, Sonic 1's implementation of the slide tube wasn't just straight application of in-game ground physics from what I remember, but regardless it was definitely less abrupt.



It honestly sounds like you either didn't play or don't remember the original games, which is fine, but don't act so surprised. You can't stop that fast without hitting a wall or something in Sonic 3&K, it takes time, especially if you were moving at your top speed just before. Hitting enemies typically conserves your speed while possibly redirecting it unless you were already slow in the first place.

I was basing off generations i remember being able to stop some momentem in the air bouncing off enemies. But yes i have played and beat the original games except sonic and knuckles. Sonic 2 is the first game i ever played on a sega system.

 

[th3sicknness]

What platform was the youtube video played on?

 

[Sami+]

But you fuckers hated Unleashed so we had to settle for goddamn fucking mediocre Sonic Colors and Gens after Unleashed's director left in shame.

Now, to me, Generations as an idea with which to base the franchise on going forward was just kind of a crock of shit. Like, the idea of separating Sonic into two different characters with their own abilities versus one gameplay style that takes the best of both worlds into account is stupid as fuck. The act of throwing in a bunch of old levels with absolutely none of the surrounding context that made them as iconic and memorable as they are was also stupid as fuck, regardless of the style of gameplay within them. Not taking into account the fact that a lot of the level design and quirks that made the older levels what they were would inevitably be lost in translation to the modern gameplay style, because the modern gameplay style is different from classic gameplay and the faux-classic 3D stuff of SA1 and SA2 was a dumb as fuck oversight. Honestly, Generations works best when you consider it a meta-aware celebration of the franchise's birthday and nothing else.

But apparently I'm the only one who got that memo because now we have Generations 2 and the cracks are showing. Because people who don't really understand Sonic's mechanics sure have a hell of a lot to say to Sega about how the franchise should be dictated. THANKS GUYS.

lmao yeah dude it's everyone else's fault Sonic Unleashed ran like a trash fire, was full of pointless padding, and had an entire half of the game that was mediocre at best and held back the entire product. Fucking gamers am I right.

I don't even like the Classic Sonic focus but blaming it on people not liking the Werehog is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. At least one of them plays kind of like a Sonic game.

 

[R_thanatos]

not a fan of the hidden jumpers ( never have , never will be )

Music needs improvement

Design seems ok ... it's green hill , i'm not expecting any breaking ground from that anymore.

It's alright

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Looks worse than I was expecting, art style is ugly music bad. Oh well, mania is coming at least.

 

[Mr Swine]

I think the reason for another Green Hill Zone is in fact that this takes place during the post Generation era. Sonic has returned back to his time only to find out that Classic Eggman has taken Modern Eggman tech back in time

Hence why there are modern robots in the Genesis era and all water is gone

 

[cireza]

Just noticed that the palmtree at the very end is animated like shit lol.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Mania does look far better. But again, the physics have nothing to do with the art direction. It's because Sonic Team is either incapable of recreating classic movement, or just doesn't care to.

They should really get talking to the Mania team because they perfectly nailed old school Sonic, movement and all. I played it at Eurogamers EGX last year and it felt great to play a new Sonic game that felt like it belongs to the original games.

 

[pswii60]

I thought it looked quite good, especially given it's only the first stage. I just hope they get the 60fps framerate locked, too many nasty slowdowns in that footage.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

Just listening to the remixed GHZ music from Generations.. This is just jarring, it's just a complete step backwards. They nailed it so well before, it's crazy.

Could this be place holder music? Like just for the trailer or something perhaps? It seems weird without the HUD too.

Fuck sake, i've just made the mistake of listening a load of Generations songs, it just got everything so right. Nothing to do with GHZ - BUT.. For a fucking start, get these Cash Cash guys back in. They get it. They know. They have such a distinct sound, you know it's one of their songs within seconds for everything they did in Generations, this sound suits Sonic so well. This Sonic 4 tier stuff in Forces is a travesty in comparision

 

[Nepenthe]

lmao yeah dude it's everyone else's fault Sonic Unleashed ran like a trash fire, was full of pointless padding, and had an entire half of the game that was mediocre at best and held back the entire product. Fucking gamers am I right.

I don't even like the Classic Sonic focus but blaming it on people not liking the Werehog is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. At least one of them plays kind of like a Sonic game.

I'm not saying Unleashed is flawless. It's far from it. I'm saying people in general don't really care to give nuanced arguments with regards to Sonic games because Sonic doesn't seem worth it to most people to give it the time of day concerning knowledgeable debate, because lol cartoon hedgehogs amirite.

So when Sonic Team ends up getting feedback they make stupid-ass sledgehammer decisions based off of that kind of binary communicative environment. For all of the flaws Unleashed has, we inevitably lost having levels defined by reasonable context and a more sincere writing style that doesn't fucking elbow you in the ribs every five seconds with petty verbal comedy. The level design for the actual boost gameplay itself got dumbed down in terms of actual platforming challenge, difficulty, and telegraphing and other forms of communication (seriously, I don't know how anyone actually finds Colors great). We've got a pale imitation of Classic Sonic that was pale when it first appeared that's attached itself to the modern games, because we just have to have classic nostalgia stapled over everything no matter how utterly shallow it is because it merely reminds us of the good ol' days, regardless of whether or not we understand the mechanics underlying those good ol' days.

And everyone ate that shit up simply because Colors and Gens didn't have Unleashed's more disagreeable design flaws. The bare minimum of achievement was celebrated. And now we're sitting here wondering how we got to this point. It's pretty dang obvious how we got to this point. Broad demands lead to broad answers.

 

[RagnarokX]

They should really get talking to the Mania team because they perfectly nailed old school Sonic, movement and all. I played it at Eurogamers EGX last year and it felt great to play a new Sonic game that felt like it belongs to the original games.

And the Retro Engine is a modern engine, right? Like they could swap out the graphics with 3D models like how Super Mario Maker just simulates the sprite-based games but is actually using flat models.

 

[BocoDragon]

It looks like a less visually interesting Sonic Generations with worse music.

 

[th3sicknness]

What platform was the youtube video demoing?

 

[oti]

There's a lot of bad Sonic games, there's plenty of really excellent ones as well. This music composition sounds completely different from anything we've had in the past, even if you weren't a fan of that.

Personally I think almost all of the 3D games that came after Adventure 1 are fucking horrible but the music has at least been stellar, and sounds literally nothing like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8cLe9ZUh1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4oUJcTfVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYETxzi2LhU



Nobody was hyped about Sonic 4, actually. I don't know what to tell you other than that you're wrong and it's not at all the same, and I say that as someone who doesn't even like these games much. The most recent 3D Sonic game I look back fondly on was Adventure and even that one aged really badly. The reason I check out videos of the new stuff is because Sonic 3 and Adventure were just that good.

Mania looks absolutely incredible. This doesn't. You're free to like what you like, but to say they look the same would just be objectively wrong, because they don't, at all.

Fair enough. I definitely remember a "finally they're getting rid of dumb additions to Sonic" sentiment before Sonic 4 came out and it turned out to be super bad. The gameplay of all those 3D sidescroller Sonic games look the same. With the same highs (great runs at high speed) and the same lows (stops, bad platforming). For me the lows greatly outweigh the highs.

Mania also looks the same to me gameplay wise. 🤷*♀️

 

[Exodust]

The music is terrible, and this Green Hill looks off to me compared to Generations.

Huh, Classic Sonic was the reason i actually liked Generations(The 06 level in 2D was garbage though). So if they fuck that up, guess I won't be liking this game.

 

[Sami+]

I'm not saying Unleashed is flawless. It's far from it. I'm saying people in general don't really care to give nuanced arguments with regards to Sonic games because Sonic doesn't seem worth it to most people to give it the time of day concerning knowledgeable debate, because lol cartoon hedgehogs amirite.

So when Sonic Team ends up getting feedback they make stupid-ass sledgehammer decisions based off of that kind of binary communicative environment. For all of the flaws Unleashed has, we inevitably lost having levels defined by reasonable context and a more sincere writing style that doesn't fucking elbow you in the ribs every five seconds with petty verbal comedy. The level design for the actual boost gameplay itself got dumbed down in terms of actual platforming challenge, difficulty, and telegraphing and other forms of communication (seriously, I don't know how anyone actually finds Colors great). We've got a pale imitation of Classic Sonic that was pale when it first appeared that's attached itself to the modern games, because we just have to have classic nostalgia stapled over everything no matter how utterly shallow it is because it merely reminds us of the good ol' days, regardless of whether or not we understand the mechanics underlying those good ol' days.

And everyone ate that shit up simply because Colors and Gens didn't have Unleashed's more disagreeable design flaws. The bare minimum of achievement was celebrated. And now we're sitting here wondering how we got to this point. It's pretty dang obvious how we got to this point. Broad demands lead to broad answers.

Cursory feedback to widely disliked games is not something exclusive to Sonic. If anything, Sonic's one of the few series where developers who actually care to look into feedback have a staggering wealth of content from passionate fans to pull from. Look at the way people even on GAF talk about divisive (yet still overall more liked than Unleashed) games like Skyward Sword or Mass Effect Andromeda. "Motion controls don't work", "Fi", "animations", etc.

Your blame is misplaced imo. It's Sonic Team's fault for taking us to this point, because we're not the ones making the games.

 

[LordKasual]

But you fuckers hated Unleashed so we had to settle for goddamn fucking mediocre Sonic Colors and Gens after Unleashed's director left in shame.

I do not know why people praised Sonic Colors so much. It took all the best of Unleashed's built mechanics and compartmentalized them. It took the worst of Unleashed's mechanics and made entire stages out of them. One thing about Unleashed that Generations did not capture was the sense that it was building upon its own mechanics. The game was basically a sampler of Unleashed's gameplay.

In terms of modern level design, what generations actually improved upon was the density of the levels. Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill were perfect examples of what modern 3D stages should look like IMO.

Now, to me, Generations as an idea with which to base the franchise on going forward was just kind of a crock of shit. Like, the idea of separating Sonic into two different characters with their own abilities versus one gameplay style that takes the best of both worlds into account is stupid as fuck. The act of throwing in a bunch of old levels with absolutely none of the surrounding context that made them as iconic and memorable as they are was also stupid as fuck, regardless of the style of gameplay within them. Not taking into account the fact that a lot of the level design and quirks that made the older levels what they were would inevitably be lost in translation to the modern gameplay style, because the modern gameplay style is different from classic gameplay and the faux-classic 3D stuff of SA1 and SA2 was a dumb as fuck oversight. Honestly, Generations works best when you consider it a meta-aware celebration of the franchise's birthday and nothing else.

Well i'm gonna take this sentiment a step further and say that this trend of shooting the innovator did not start with Sonic Unleashed.

It started with Sonic Heroes.

• We only want to play action stages! ---> The entire game is action stages
• What about sonic's friends!? ---> You play 3 of them simultaneously
• What happened to their abilities?! --> 3 on-the-fly moveset swaps during gameplay

Not only is every character basically Sonic, if you're good at the game you almost never have to switch off of him.

People talk about momentum based gameplay in 3D? That was Sonic Heroes.

You nitwits ruined it for everyone years ago, now we're stuck with a game that can't even decide what it wants to build off of anymore.

 

[Mesoian]

What the fuck is that music.

Probably just placeholder stuff.

It BETTER be placeholder stuff.

 

[Stat Flow]

It's okay guys. We don't have to worry about the garbage that Sonic Team puts out. We don't even have to debate about what's good or what isn't in their games. Because we have Mania and I'm confident that the only big criticism aimed at it will be that it's not 100% original. Seriously, Mania takes the Sonic Formula people fell in love with and pushes it into 2017. This is the first time we'll have a *new* Sonic that feels like an evolution of the old formula in over a decade. As long as it sells well, I think we will get more and then we'll be wondering why the fuck we even debate about Forces, 3D, 2.5D, Unleashed, Boom, or whatever the hell these Sonic games have been.

I'm one of those people who, from Adventure up through to Unleashed, gave Sonic so many chances and came away disappointed every. single. time. After Unleashed I just said fuck it and haven't given a damn about Sonic releases. I usually replay Sonic 1-3&K once a year just because of how good it is. So it's not like I'm not a fan of Sonic. I'm just a fan of well made games...and the old Sonic games happened to be very well made, the nostalgia just helps. I don't have time to waste on shite like I used to when I was younger.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

this was a side-scroller? I was expecting a more 3D on rails type adventure

 

[Nepenthe]

Cursory feedback to widely disliked games is not something exclusive to Sonic. If anything, Sonic's one of the few series where developers who actually care to look into feedback have a staggering wealth of content from passionate fans to pull from. Look at the way people even on GAF talk about divisive (yet still overall more liked than Unleashed) games like Skyward Sword or Mass Effect Andromeda. "Motion controls don't work", "Fi", "animations", etc.

Your blame is misplaced imo. It's Sonic Team's fault for taking us to this point, because we're not the ones making the games.

Sonic Team makes games in response to fan feedback in the same way Nintendo made Breath of the Wild as a response to fan feedback about Skyward Sword. Communication is a two-way street; a developer is blind to the desires of their fans and thus can't design a game around any of it until their fans actually tell them what they want. Otherwise, Breath of the Wild as we know it would not have existed. Subsequently, Colors and Gens are in part the result fan feedback- shitty fan feedback, but feedback nonetheless.

True, it's not all the fans' fault these games are kind of middle of the road. But since everyone blew a load over "middle of the road" game design, I don't give them a pass either.

 

[Yukinari]

this was a side-scroller? I was expecting a more 3D on rails type adventure

Classic Sonic levels have always been 2D. We saw modern sonic gameplay briefly and thats still 3D.

 

[Nepenthe]

People talk about momentum based gameplay in 3D? That was Sonic Heroes.

You nitwits ruined it for everyone years ago, now we're stuck with a game that can't even decide what it wants to build off of anymore.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What part of Sonic Heroes has a more reasonable application of momentum on the characters' movement than either SA1 or SA2 did?