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Sonic Forces - Green Hill Gameplay

C

cand

Member
oti said:
BUT IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE EVERY SONIC GAME EVER WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT AT THIS POINT, SONIC FANS, WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT
Click to expand...

I agree this is getting ridiculous at a point I don't know why sonic team is even trying anymore. I mean sonic generations and lost worlds were not bad. Boom is bad. But the bar for sonic games is so crazily high nothing will ever satisfy sonic fans.

Edit: Anyway, I really liked the music and the video in general. The invisible unnecessary bumps are very weird though
 
E

Eblo

Member
The music seriously perplexes me. Not only does the quality leave something to be desired, but it doesn't fit a "green hill" at all, much less one in some sandy pit.
 
L

LordKano

Member
IronicSonic said:
That "fangame level design" crew clearly didnt play any fan game

Even Sonic 4 has better level desing than Sonic Time Twisted for instance
Click to expand...

The fangame crew probably never played a Sonic game more than the first level to begin with.
Though tbh Sonic After The Sequel and Before The Sequel got some good level-design.
 
C

capylikesgames

Banned
To me, it's feeling like a rehash of Generations; Classic Sonic returning was cool, but now we've got throwback stages again. I would've appreciated a Green Hill Zone more as an easter egg, like in Adventure 2. Heck, maybe Emerald Hill instead, to mix things up? Don't mean to sound ungrateful; the game itself looks fun (though unchanged from Generations, mechanically), and I'll probably grab it at release, I just feel like they're playing it too safe. Hopefully it doesn't try to fall back on nostalgia throughout.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
The music is... odd. Not awful like some people are saying in here, but it doesn't seem to fit the level.

The level design looks atrocious, though. Waaaaay too simplistic and flat.
 
A

Ansatz

Member
I don't understand Sonic games, they're very Kirby-eqsue in level design simplicity and lack of challenge. At least Kirby is about something; experimenting with power ups and obstacles designed around particular ones. I fail to see the point of the mechanics other than keeping them for the sake of tradition. Is Sonic mainly a platformer based around the jump button? If it's about speed, then why is it impossible to maintain it? Perhaps it's about overcoming obstacles using momentum, then what's up with all the parts that are practically on-rails? I think this format of Sonic is better suited as a runners game, that way you get the speed and a game designed entirely around maintaining it. I just can't get around this lack of direction and cohesiveness in its design.
 
E

ezodagrom

Member
Hmm, thinking about the music, I feel that it just doesn't fit the stage at all, it feels like something that would be used in a special stage or something like that.
 
T

TheOGB

Banned
This would look unimpressive even if Sonic Mania weren't coming in the same year

Gimme a speedrun of a new Modern Sonic level
 
M

modsbox

Member
Yikes. Not a fan of this. It looks off to me. Too zoomed out? Physics with the enemies seems weird?

I thought Generations and Colors were both great. This one has me worried.

It doesn't help that the music is... really bad. I don't care for it at all by itself, but then as others have mentioned it doesn't fit the stage either.
 
G

Gin-Shiio

Member
What's the problem with the springs? They are placed against walls; if Sonic goes there, he'd smash straight into them. The springs actually save some of the momentum.
 
P

Par Score

Member
Absolutely agree with all the concerns. This looks like a massive, massive regression from Generations.

The jump physics look off, especially when bouncing off enemies.

Way too many hard-stops and momentum killers.

The music is garbage tier, totally unacceptable for a Sonic game.

oti said:
BUT IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE EVERY SONIC GAME EVER WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT AT THIS POINT, SONIC FANS, WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT
Click to expand...

Not even remotely true.

If you think that sounds anything like Sonic 1, 2, 3+K, let alone the godlike Generations, then I encourage you to go for a hearing test.
 
Rolodzeo

Rolodzeo

Member
GcDIBXP.png
 
A

a916

Member
I really wish they'd overhaul the gameplay... they keep toying with the art style like that's a real problem.

Maybe these games just aren't for me... but I think they are being held back by archaic design elements still rooted in the Genesis days. Especially the run really really fast and we'll put obstacles in the way so you come to a dead stop and have you feeling like you're in quicksand while you gather your speed again. Even the jumps that make you look all momentum kinda bug me...
 
Z

Zalman

Member
The music is the most disappointing part of this. Sonic Team always nails that. I can't remember the last time I felt this "meh" about a Sonic track.

That combined with the fact that we have Green Hill again is really not making me excited. And this is coming from someone who is genuinely looking forward to this.
 
1

15strong

Member
Ansatz said:
I don't understand Sonic games, they're very Kirby-eqsue in level design simplicity and lack of challenge. At least Kirby is about something; experimenting with power ups and obstacles designed around particular ones. I fail to see the point of the mechanics other than keeping them for the sake of tradition. Is Sonic mainly a platformer based around the jump button? If it's about speed, then why is it impossible to maintain it? Perhaps it's about overcoming obstacles using momentum, then what's up with all the parts that are practically on-rails? I think this format of Sonic is better suited as a runners game, that way you get the speed and a game designed entirely around maintaining it. I just can't get around this lack of direction and cohesiveness in its design.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head. These specific reasons are why I think sonic was never very good to whine with. And the video just looks like all other sonic games.
 
deriks

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
The level design looks kinda weid, but I'm fine with the results overral.

We need more love for Sonic, guys
 
S

Sami+

Member
LordKano said:
They would have shown anything that isn't Mania, people would still have called it a Sonic 4-clone or that it has bad physics, despite knowing nothing about both. No use arguing in that case.
Click to expand...

If anyone knows what they're talking about with jump physics it's classic Sonic fans. He has no forward momentum in his jump and you can especially notice it when he bops enemies and goes straight up.

Also the music is trash
 
Bucket-o-roadkill

Bucket-o-roadkill

Member
The strange (lack of?) momentum is jarring. The slowdown after the boosts are so strange. The music sounds alright, but it's a bit like Sonic 4 I feel. Decent melody but something off. It's a step down after the remix masterpieces of Generations imo.
 
J

J@hranimo

Banned
oti said:
BUT IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE EVERY SONIC GAME EVER WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT AT THIS POINT, SONIC FANS, WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT
Click to expand...

If you read the thread and turn off caps lock, you'd probably understand some gripes people are having with the footage.
 
T

tsundere4you

Neo Member
On a fundamental level I don't have a problem with Sonic games that have slightly different physics than the classic games. What I do have a major problem with is that large chunks of level design from classic titles are used but the physics system is not able to cope with that level design, and so bandaid fixes and scripting are shoved in every few moments to make it 'work'.

Look at the S shaped tunnel Sonic walks in at 0:40:

https://youtu.be/q1wYD5b4VUw?t=39s

This piece of level design actually had a function in Sonic 1. The faster you went in the more speed you gained and the higher you launched into a bunch of rings at the end. Here it's irrelevant what speed Sonic is going at as he enters the tunnel because there's a script that automatically sets his speed to max. Then we have a boost pad at the end because Sonic Team played this section, realised he won't have the speed needed to clear the loop right after the S tunnel and so stuck a boost pad there as a bandaid fix.

There's no point in the S shaped tunnel being in this game if it can't be used to gain speed natually. If they're just going to use scripts and boost pads anyway it serves no function other than to look different.

They literally have to get the game to play itself in these instances to make the level design work correctly and to me that's a failure of game design.
 
S

Sami+

Member
oti said:
BUT IT LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE EVERY SONIC GAME EVER WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT AT THIS POINT, SONIC FANS, WHAT DO YOU EVEN WANT
Click to expand...

I'M REALLY ANGRY THAT PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT SOMETHING I CHOOSE TO BE AGGRESSIVELY IGNORANT ABOUT
 
P

Paul_Str337

Member
Classic Sonic in Generations looked fine. It wasn't the proper classic physics but as an approximation it was ok. I think the same of this as well; it's fine. It would look better but Sonic Mania has spoiled me. At least we have that coming first so that at least Classic Sonic in Forces can be it's own thing.
 
M

Mr. Patch

Member
Ansatz said:
I don't understand Sonic games, they're very Kirby-eqsue in level design simplicity and lack of challenge. At least Kirby is about something; experimenting with power ups and obstacles designed around particular ones. I fail to see the point of the mechanics other than keeping them for the sake of tradition. Is Sonic mainly a platformer based around the jump button? If it's about speed, then why is it impossible to maintain it? Perhaps it's about overcoming obstacles using momentum, then what's up with all the parts that are practically on-rails?I think this format of Sonic is better suited as a runners game, that way you get the speed and a game designed entirely around maintaining it. I just can't get around this lack of direction and cohesiveness in its design.
Click to expand...

1. Speed isn't impossible to maintain.
2. The on-rails style parts don't negate the obstacles that exist
 
Spukc

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
hoping mania becomes sega's best selling sonic game in years,
and this turd will flop.

so sega would get the message <3
 
F

Famassu

Member
I felt like Rayman Legends infinity run challenges (and some normal levels if speed-running them) nailed the idea of Sonic better than pretty much any Sonic game

https://youtu.be/vJt58JKnp6I?t=202

Gotta go fast, intricate challenges where keeping momentum was not only possible but required for a vast majority of it. Sonic has these unnecessary things that stop Sonic right at its tracks (I know there's probably some speed runners/pro players who can do everything without stopping much, but I dunno, it never clicked to me) which, to me, always ruined what the game was going for and I dunno, the level designs also don't really support the fast speed either, with constant obstacles that just bring Sonic to a complete halt, which isn't fun in a game like Sonic, imho. The too narrow FOV also feeds into this, spikes & shit just kind of comes out of nowhere or are waiting below the screen where the player can't possibly see them until they are already dropping on them, instead of being these things that require presision but are manageable even when you don't have the layout of the levels memorized. In addition to that, Sonic never really felt good to control when NOT going fast. There's just something I don't like with the jumping physics even in older Sonic games.
 
I

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Fuck sake Sonic Team. You've convinced people that all Sonic games play like shit and have bad level design. Again. We don't get this shit in Sonic Mania threads.
 
E

exfatal

Member
Game looks fine so far, and i like the placement of the invisible springs. Seems to be placed wherever there would be an opportunity to lose your momentum by crashing into a wall. If you are playing to game at its fastest, it seems you wont run into those types of springs at all. So yes to poster before who mentioned if Sega thinks people don't know how to jump, yes they not jumping at right moments if they hitting those invisible springs.
2Dvzgq0.gif

Not all invisible springs, but most of them are traps to kill momentum if you hit them.. soo just dont
I swear the way people talk about momentum and speed in sonic games, they just wanna hold right and run at top speed with no issues or challenges
Also music is weird but its not sonic 4 levels.
 
Z

Zubz

Banned
mocolostrocolos said:
The music, the gameplay, the looks... It's not right.
Click to expand...

I think that's the point with the music. between the enemies, level structure, & sand, maybe this level's supposed to feel off? If not, then this wasn't a good choice or music, but it definitely seems to me like there's supposed to be something more going on here.

I mean, despite being the Green Hill Zone, they're clearly remixing Splash Hill Zone's theme here instead.

Also, I take it these guys are supposed to be the newest iteration of the Egg Pawns from Heroes?

6PZEbnaZMNius8sjV6SdD4S4mIpWe.jpg
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Jaymageck said:
Oooh dear this is bad.

They've missed the point again. This looks like Sonic 4. No, not like a 'true Sonic 4'. That's Mania. This looks like the bad Sonic 4 they actually made.

It's important people watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZzlcI_2adk

You see what Generations Classic got right in GHZ? Not a single boost pad in this video. Momentum based gameplay.

Sure, some people still didn't find the physics perfect. But it was close to a classic experience.

This Forces video is just full on DIMPS tropes in your face. Boost pads before every other loop structure. Random enemy placement. No real sense of any planned balance to the level design, just the same repetitive gameplay they've been firing out for the last 10 years or so.

The gulf in quality between the level design in this vs. Mania is embarrassing for SEGA.
Click to expand...
Generations is an important example of why level design is the most important thing in Sonic. Generations physics are awful; like so bad they should ruin the game. But the level design is so good at making it feel like classic Sonic that it carries the game.

Forces actually appears to have improved physics, but the level design is really bad and the music made my ears gush fountains of blood.
 
B

Babymario26

Member
Man such a fuss about the first level a game what do you guys want from sonic. And i dont believe sonic was stoping on his own when he hit those enemies i think it was the player.
 
RAIDEN1

RAIDEN1

Member
When it comes to music this game can't even come close to the epicness of Sonic CD.....absolutely awesome, from the Jap to the U.S version...
 
J

jman2050

Member
I don't think this particular slice of game is flattering to Forces thus far, but it still seems too soon to pass absolute judgement on it. I like the graphical look of it at least despite some of the hangups already discussed. Still don't understand those invisible springs though, that's a very odd and unnecessary level design element that I saw way too many times in that short video for it to not be deliberate and pervasive.

Ansatz said:
I don't understand Sonic games, they're very Kirby-eqsue in level design simplicity and lack of challenge. At least Kirby is about something; experimenting with power ups and obstacles designed around particular ones. I fail to see the point of the mechanics other than keeping them for the sake of tradition. Is Sonic mainly a platformer based around the jump button? If it's about speed, then why is it impossible to maintain it? Perhaps it's about overcoming obstacles using momentum, then what's up with all the parts that are practically on-rails? I think this format of Sonic is better suited as a runners game, that way you get the speed and a game designed entirely around maintaining it. I just can't get around this lack of direction and cohesiveness in its design.
Click to expand...

Oh is it already time to do this again? I would've thought Cindi's threads sufficiently belabored this debate over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to ensure we wouldn't have to revisit it this soon but I suppose that was too much to hope for.
 
G

Griss

Member
Babymario26 said:
Man such a fuss about the first level a game what do you guys want from sonic. And i dont believe sonic was stoping on his own when he hit those enemies i think it was the player.
Click to expand...

What do we (well, I) want? Not much, really, just...

-Good physics and controls, momentum based gameplay
-Good, readable visuals
-Good level design and enemy placement
-An engaging looking challenge
-Good music and audio mixing

Basically, all of the stuff that you don't see in that video.
 
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