Yeah, I started listening to Retronauts from a decade ago and it's nuts as I have not heard such casual use of the R-word or the C-word in a very long time. I forget the guy's name (Sharkey? Or something like that?) just tosses those words out like they're nothing. Maybe this makes me a jerk but I kind of miss being able to throw out words like that without any guilt. Restricting words like those from my lexicon was something I struggled with for a long time as I never used them literally and it was more about how they sounded which is how I would justify my use of them.
Aside from the actual debate at hand, I agree with you. "Is this the hill you want to die on," is a way of molding a social group or a way of making your point of view be perceived as the dominant or "right" view ,without actually giving any reasons or basis. It's basically saying, "You're wrong and this opinion isn't welcome here." In the case of this thread, I think that person is probably right, but I think it's a stupid way of making that point.
People use "autistic" instead of retard now. Am I the only one that's noticed this? Like "I'm not autistic" / "your autistic". It's fucking awful
I've made my point well over a dozen points in this thread to many different people and we were still getting some pretty ignorant and ugly comments none-the-less that even resulted in several bans. I said it because it was all that needed to be said at that point after making my case for the entire thread very clearly.
Are you sure this is the hill you want to die on...?
"I said it because it was all that needed to be said"
Sometimes, if nothing has to be said, you don't have to say anything at all.
As someone on the spectrum who has had the word retard thrown my way quite a bit as well as knowing and working with many wonderful people with Down Syndrome then yes, I'll die on this hill.
As someone on the spectrum who has had the word retard thrown my way quite a bit as well as knowing and working with many wonderful people with Down Syndrome then yes, I'll gladly die on this hill.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm strongly against using the word, and never use it, and also thankfully very rarely ever hear it (I wrote this a couple pages back), and scold people who do. I'm also against using the phrase "are you sure this is the hill you wish to die on," or some manifestation of it without any other content. That's what my post was about -- It's a shit post, better not to post at all.
The language of gaming podcasts was a lot saltier in the 1UP days.
why are people so allergic to trying to be a better person?
Going to bat for a word that causes offence is the most bizarre thing to me. All it says in my books is that group matters less than them. And when that group is some of the most vulnerable in society there is a severe empathy deficit.
Also it's one bloody word! The English language is a beautiful thing because of its versatility. Use it! And maybe because I'm British and we love swearing and invent new words all the time but twat is far better than retard.
So in conclusion: TWATS.
People on here can tell me I have no empathy and no respect for the mentally challenged all day long for using the word retard. Doesn't make it true. As much as you guys seem to want it to be.
I've made my point well over a dozen points in this thread to many different people and we were still getting some pretty ignorant and ugly comments none-the-less that even resulted in several bans. I said it because it was all that needed to be said at that point after making my case for the entire thread very clearly.
I recall Sharkey making an appearance on 1UP podcast and got into a huge swearing match with Garnett Lee.Yeah, I started listening to Retronauts from a decade ago and it's nuts as I have not heard such casual use of the R-word or the C-word in a very long time. I forget the guy's name (Sharkey? Or something like that?) just tosses those words out like they're nothing. Maybe this makes me a jerk but I kind of miss being able to throw out words like that without any guilt. Restricting words like those from my lexicon was something I struggled with for a long time as I never used them literally and it was more about how they sounded which is how I would justify my use of them.
Empathy means you have the ability to understand others' feelings. We are telling you that that word is offensive. So do you understand that it's hurtful and just don't care? I don't think this is the case. I think you think we are being petty, which means you are not empathetic in this instance. And I'm not saying you lack any empathy- perhaps this is just a blind spot. Take the time to listen to what people have said in this thread. It's not about you.
Seriously. "No one makes me grow!"
So many words in the english language. Why someone finds using a pejorative term more important that being a cognizant human being is baffling.
Empathy means you have the ability to understand others' feelings. We are telling you that that word is offensive. So do you understand that it's hurtful and just don't care? I don't think this is the case. I think you think we are being petty, which means you are not empathetic in this instance. And I'm not saying you lack any empathy- perhaps this is just a blind spot. Take the time to listen to what people have said in this thread. It's not about you.
I just read the entire thread. Dude, you have been so patient. It's much appreciated.
Not to take sides in this battle, as I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but empathy does not necessarily imply agreement with the thoughts and feelings of the person/group's psyche that you have knowledge of. It's perfectly possible to both understand that and why people find the word offensive without thinking that it should be phased out of language, which is not a lack of empathy but a lack of sympathy to the argument.
I see these terms conflated often on GAF and elsewhere, and it's an important distinction to make.
I don't think this is really any better. You should stop using the word in that context because it's inherently exclusionary and degrading, not because someone is there to take offense to it. I'm not going to start tossing the word "nigger" around when I'm not in the company of black people.I mean, someone who calls a person with developmental problems or the like a retard or retarded is a huge asshole, but that isn't the same as just saying it casually among friends in the same vein as idiot or idiotic. I wouldn't want to use those words around or at someone with these issues either.
Unfortunately, it's still very common.
Calling a person a "retard" seems more taboo than calling a thing or idea "retarded". I catch myself every once in a while saying it and feel bad every time.
I don't think this is really any better. You should stop using the word in that context because it's inherently exclusionary and degrading, not because someone is there to take offense to it. I'm not going to start tossing the word "nigger" around when I'm not in the company of black people.
Like I don't know how you can feel good about playing nice with disabled people and then using their disability as a punchline when they're not around.
There are other words you can use in place of "retarded." Use those. It isn't that fucking hard. Stop making excuses for your laziness.I'm not using their disability as a punchline. But you know what, sometimes I'm gonna call someone or something really stupid, and maybe I want to emphasize that in some way. I also would never call someone with, for example, Down's syndrome stupid, and generally try to avoid that word around people with developmental issues. It just is what it is. The only difference is that "retard" is the most recent example of a medical term that's been reworked into a slur through use in a more common context, so it's more inflammatory than "stupid" or "idiot", which is why I would generally avoid using it in company of strangers who may feel sensitive to the word. I use it with friends because they know where I stand and I know they're not going to take it the wrong way.
Also I exclusively use the word "nigga/nigger" in the company of black people I know, but that's a different matter entirely. The slurs aren't really comparable.
I'm not using their disability as a punchline. But you know what, sometimes I'm gonna call someone or something really stupid, and maybe I want to emphasize that in some way. I also would never call someone with, for example, Down's syndrome stupid, and generally try to avoid that word around people with developmental issues. It just is what it is. The only difference is that "retard" is the most recent example of a medical term that's been reworked into a slur through use in a more common context.
There are other words you can use in place of "retarded." Use those. It isn't that fucking hard. Stop making excuses for your laziness.
Everytime you use the word retard among friends do you qualify to them that this isn't to go and be used against disabled people? And these words have a habit of just 'slipping' out when they shouldn't when you keep using them.
You're keeping it alive, and for what reason. Just because you like it.
A friend of mine said she found the word "cunt" offensive. Guess what word I stopped using?
"But I reeeeeally like using it though" is a terrible argument. You're being unnecessarily thick.I'm not making excuses, I'm explaining something to you. You're getting unnecessarily hostile and not making much of a good argument.
Forgive me, but your friends sound like assholes. If I had a disabled child and I knew this was how they conducted themselves when they thought no one was watching, I wouldn't seek their services.No, because my friends know better. Some of them work with disabled children who have these issues and they love them to death, and they'll still use the word because there's no hate behind it. And no, the words have never slipped out for me in an inappopriate situation.
I'm respecting her wishes more by not using it any conversation. Doing otherwise isn't very sincere. You act like there's this implicit "AROUND ME" attached to every "Please don't say that word" and there isn't.If a friend of mine took offense to my saying cunt, I simply wouldn't say it around her anymore. I would still use it when I felt like with other people who I knew didn't take offense to it. It doesn't make me a misogynist or lack empathy with women either. Words aren't magic spells.
INo, because my friends know better. Some of them work with disabled children who have these issues and they love them to death, and they'll still use the word because there's no hate behind it. And no, the words have never slipped out for me in an inappopriate situation.
It's going to be alive whether you like it or not. If you stamp out this word, the next term will just take its place, just like this took the last term's place. People will always find new ways of calling each other "stupid" in some way.
Forgive me, but your friends sound like assholes. If I had a disabled child and I knew this was how they conducted themselves when they thought no one was watching, I wouldn't seek their services.
I'm respecting her wishes more by not using it any conversation. Doing otherwise isn't very sincere. You act like there's this implicit "AROUND ME" attached to every "Please don't say that word" and there isn't. Just stop.
How do you know you, or your friends, or someone else hasn't done it in front of the mother of a disabled child? Who didn't get angry, was was just deeply hurt and then worried for a child that this is the attitude they have to face on top of everything else.
You don't. So the question then is how much do you care. Own up to it instead of the mental gymnastics to justify it.
I know I haven't done it in front of the mother of a disabled child because as I have said multiple times I don't use the word around strangers specifically to avoid such a scenario occurring. If a friend of mine did that, I would call him out on it, but my friends are pretty considerate about that shit. We've known each other, in some cases, for decades, and nothing is off limits in our conversations with each other because we know each other very well. It doesn't make us somehow hateful towards disabled people just because you declare so.
why are people so allergic to trying to be a better person?
You forgot the 'someone else', you're a part of this. And the friends of your friends. You can't control everyone else, but you can you. And that would be taking personal responsibility for that highly offensive word you refuse to give up but assume isn't doing any harm even though the group affected has politely asked you to do so. They want it to die out, and as with spastic in the UK it can.
Or you could carry on ignoring them while this word hurts people. One is the more adult decision.
I am taking personal responsibility by being judicious with how I say the word and who I say it around. Like you say, I can't control everyone else, and I don't feel the inclination to try to shame my friends out of saying the word because I'm confident in their consideration of others.
I can't control whether other people use the word to hurt people, I can only control whether I do, and that's exactly what I do. It's okay if you think I'm an asshole, I think you're misguided.
You know what would happen if a friend of a friend of mine used the word to hurt somebody's feelings? We would call them out on it and tell them not to do it again.
You don't understand it at all, it's a butterfly effect.
And you are one particularly stubborn butterfly. i will leave it at this because I can't explain it any other way and this is frustrating as well as depressing,
The "r word" is used to describe something stupid. "That gun is retarded." Other offensive words have kind of evolved into another meaning. I hear, "that's gay" a ton and I understand no one is actually thinking of gay people when they say it. Maybe when it first started, but its odd to see evolution, which would help progress be shut down. Why not change the meaning of some offensive words? Does my post make sense? lol
To extend an olive branch, I mostly sympathize with you. I cringe whenever I hear someone call something or someone retarded in a public setting because I know it can hit a sore spot. It makes me very angry when people who suffer from such disabilities, especially children, are bullied.
I simply have an aversion to the idea that saying things in a private context has some inherent negative impact to any significant degree. I'm not going to police my language in the few sanctuaries of free expression afforded to me for the remote possibility that somehow it will cause someone somewhere some harm at the hand of someone who isn't me. I'm pretty sure I cause more harm just smoking a couple of cigarettes everyday.
But we still call gay people gay because that's the word, it's not progress to change it to mean something bad... Gay isn't offense... using it to mean something is bad is offensive.
And why do you think the R word is used to call something stupid? Because it's source comes for what was once a medical diagnosis for people with intellectual developmental disorders. Literally the word was still in use until DSM-5 was published in 2013.... It's being changed because even medical professionals recognize it's outdated... and why is it outdated because people started using it as an insult...
You are not reclaiming the word or changing it you are just using it as the pejorative that it's been used as forever...
I did not explain my point well. Thought so. The R word is constantly used to describe something stupid. Someone says something wrong, "you r word?" Is this just a TN thing because I've heard it my whole life. My point is people are still using that word terribly regardless. Takes no shame to throw that trash around. I grew up saying, "that's gay," but never thought about what that really meant to say it.
And yes, you are correct. The word gay is being used in a negative way. Its become way too normal, which is why my post was all shit in a basket.
I was surprised with how quick the pushback against gay as a pejorative was, considering how widespread it had become.
But it still took too long, it's like everyone just let it carry on and then suddenly went "Oh, gay people are people too, we better not do this". It took gay rights making some progress before it was considered bad as opposed to not that bad.
And this is why I think retard is important, it's because we can raise disabled people up in society and stop this in one go.
Is it really such a offensive word there?