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Is the "R-slur" becoming more accepted in Trump's America?
- Thread starter Poor GRIMES
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The language of gaming podcasts was a lot saltier in the 1UP days.
I've made my point well over a dozen times in this thread to many different people and we were still getting some pretty ignorant and ugly comments none-the-less that even resulted in several bans. I said it because it was all that needed to be said at that point after making my case for the entire thread very clearly.
"Is this the hill you want to die on?" is being used a lot, and liberally, because it's a very nice turn of phrase.
But in instances like this I see the phrase as "Is this worth being on the wrong side of history for?".
As it is sometimes staggering that people can't fully grasp an issue and see that they are.
But in instances like this I see the phrase as "Is this worth being on the wrong side of history for?".
As it is sometimes staggering that people can't fully grasp an issue and see that they are.
We use the word "Retarderad" here in Sweden which is essentially the same but I have never heard of it used in medical terms, even when growing up in a family with a doctor. The word has as far as my upbringing goes always been used specifically at people who you really hate and wanna insult their intelligence. The first times I started to hear the word "Retard" being used towards mental handicaps was 4-5 years ago thanks to the internet, from people in the US.
Is it really such a offensive word there?
I have as well. Often seen it thrown around in multiplayer games as an insult.
Is it really such a offensive word there?
I have as well. Often seen it thrown around in multiplayer games as an insult.
The Albatross
Member
Are you sure this is the hill you want to die on...?
"I said it because it was all that needed to be said"
Sometimes, if nothing has to be said, you don't have to say anything at all.
Are you sure this is the hill you want to die on...?
"I said it because it was all that needed to be said"
Sometimes, if nothing has to be said, you don't have to say anything at all.
As someone on the spectrum who has had the word retard thrown my way quite a bit as well as knowing and working with many wonderful people with Down Syndrome then yes, I'll gladly die on this hill.
I'll have your back.
The Albatross
Member
I think you misunderstood me. I'm strongly against using the word, and never use it, and also thankfully very rarely ever hear it (I wrote this a couple pages back), and scold people who do. I'm also against using the phrase "are you sure this is the hill you wish to die on," or some manifestation of it without any other content. That's what my post was about -- It's a shit post, better not to post at all.
I used to use it a lot in public, for the past 2 years been trying to cut it out of my vocabulary, done a pretty good job I think. I practically dont use it in public at all, still use it sometimes with my friends when we start ripping into each other but even then Ive reduced it a lot. I dont see the word going away anytime soon though.
My apologies for not taking the time out to rewrite my thoughts on this yet again on what was an incredibly belligerent post even for this thread. I said what needed to be said because I've stated it since the thread itself started and have been repeating myself over and over again to the point I've been cutting and pasting my most succinct post on the subject for those that come in and make what I consider a callous or uninformed comment several times.
I was watching some old Giantbomb stuff and noticed this. They were a lot sketchier when they started. Ryan in particular went off quite a bit.
Edit: I'm remembering some issues with Vinny during the P4 endurance run and Naoto as well.
Seriously. "No one makes me grow!"
So many words in the english language. Why someone finds using a pejorative term more important that being a cognizant human being is baffling.
Empathy means you have the ability to understand others' feelings. We are telling you that that word is offensive. So do you understand that it's hurtful and just don't care? I don't think this is the case. I think you think we are being petty, which means you are not empathetic in this instance. And I'm not saying you lack any empathy- perhaps this is just a blind spot. Take the time to listen to what people have said in this thread. It's not about you.
I just read the entire thread. Dude, you have been so patient. It's much appreciated.
I recall Sharkey making an appearance on 1UP podcast and got into a huge swearing match with Garnett Lee.
The guy has a history of being a foul mouthed twat.
King Tubby
Member
I mean, someone who calls a person with developmental problems or the like a retard or retarded is a huge asshole, but that isn't the same as just saying it casually among friends in the same vein as idiot or idiotic. I wouldn't want to use those words around or at someone with these issues either.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Not to take sides in this battle, as I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but empathy does not necessarily imply agreement with the thoughts and feelings of the person/group's psyche that you have knowledge of. It's perfectly possible to both understand that and why people find the word offensive without thinking that it should be phased out of language, which is not a lack of empathy but a lack of sympathy to the argument.
I see these terms conflated often on GAF and elsewhere, and it's an important distinction to make.
Semantics.
When the argument is being made by those affected it's a lack of enough empathy. Often resulting in boiling down that argument to just get over it instead.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I don't think this is really any better. You should stop using the word in that context because it's inherently exclusionary and degrading, not because someone is there to take offense to it. I'm not going to start tossing the word "nigger" around when I'm not in the company of black people.
Like I don't know how you can feel good about playing nice with disabled people and then using their disability as a punchline when they're not around.
Same, it was just such a common general insult when I was growing up it just comes out from time to time and I immediately feel shitty after I realize what I said.
King Tubby
Member
I'm not using their disability as a punchline. But you know what, sometimes I'm gonna call someone or something really stupid, and maybe I want to emphasize that in some way. I also would never call someone with, for example, Down's syndrome stupid, and generally try to avoid that word around people with developmental issues. It just is what it is. The only difference is that "retard" is the most recent example of a medical term that's been reworked into a slur through use in a more common context, so it's more inflammatory than "stupid" or "idiot", which is why I would generally avoid using it in company of strangers who may feel sensitive to the word. I use it with friends because they know where I stand and I know they're not going to take it the wrong way.
Also I exclusively use the word "nigga/nigger" in the company of black people I know, but that's a different matter entirely. The slurs aren't really comparable.
Aaron Strife
Banned
There are other words you can use in place of "retarded." Use those. It isn't that fucking hard. Stop making excuses for your laziness.
A friend of mine said she found the word "cunt" offensive. Guess what word I stopped using?
Everytime you use the word retard among friends do you qualify to them that this isn't to go and be used against disabled people? And these words have a habit of just 'slipping' out when they shouldn't when you keep using them.
You're keeping it alive, and for what reason. Just because you like it.
King Tubby
Member
I'm not making excuses, I'm explaining something to you. You're getting unnecessarily hostile and not making much of a good argument.
No, because my friends know better. Some of them work with disabled children who have these issues and they love them to death, and they'll still use the word because there's no hate behind it. And no, the words have never slipped out for me in an inappopriate situation.
It's going to be alive whether you like it or not. If you stamp out this word, the next term will just take its place, just like this took the last term's place. People will always find new ways of calling each other "stupid" in some way.
If a friend of mine took offense to my saying cunt, I simply wouldn't say it around her anymore. I would still use it when I felt like with other people who I knew didn't take offense to it. It doesn't make me a misogynist or lack empathy with women either. Words aren't magic spells.
Aaron Strife
Banned
"But I reeeeeally like using it though" is a terrible argument. You're being unnecessarily thick.
Forgive me, but your friends sound like assholes. If I had a disabled child and I knew this was how they conducted themselves when they thought no one was watching, I wouldn't seek their services.
I'm respecting her wishes more by not using it any conversation. Doing otherwise isn't very sincere. You act like there's this implicit "AROUND ME" attached to every "Please don't say that word" and there isn't.
I don't even care if something slips out every now and then, nobody's perfect. I know I'm not, I've been guilty of it. But when you get on your pedestal about how much you love using this word and you don't want to give that up, you're well past that point. Just stop.
How do you know you, or your friends, or someone else hasn't done it in front of the mother of a disabled child? Who didn't get angry, was was just deeply hurt and then worried for a child that this is the attitude they have to face on top of everything else.
You don't. So the question then is how much do you care. Own up to it instead of the mental gymnastics to justify it.
I'm really skeptical that American society is experiencing any budge toward conservative ideals or away from "PC culture". Trump is so reviled by so much of the population that outside of his circles of support our culture hasn't become any more receptive to what he stands for.
What I have noticed is an explosion of activism and a leftward jolt to liberal discourse. Whatever Trump is doing to our politics, civil society seems to be running away from it pretty fast.
What I have noticed is an explosion of activism and a leftward jolt to liberal discourse. Whatever Trump is doing to our politics, civil society seems to be running away from it pretty fast.
King Tubby
Member
That's fine. You'll basically never know that, and instead of unnecessarily dragging your child away from my "horrible friend" you would probably continue to leave them in their very capable care, because believe it or not using the word is not an actual reflection of any animosity towards disabled people. That's my entire point. You're making assumptions about people you've never met to try to justify a position that isn't actually true.
That's your perspective on it, and that's fine. Nobody controls my private discourse just like I don't control anybody else's. I will be considerate of someone's feelings by not using words they find objectionable, but I'm not going to stop using the word just because of that. When I say it around someone else it doesn't send energy waves to attack the person who is offended. They don't hear it, so it doesn't actually hurt them or anybody else.
I know I haven't done it in front of the mother of a disabled child because as I have said multiple times I don't use the word around strangers specifically to avoid such a scenario occurring. If a friend of mine did that, I would call him out on it, but my friends are pretty considerate about that shit. We've known each other, in some cases, for decades, and nothing is off limits in our conversations with each other because we know each other very well. It doesn't make us somehow hateful towards disabled people just because you declare so.
Cheat Code
Member
I don't use the word on GAF because I know it's looked down upon, but at least where I live in the UK, it's more or less become synonymous with "stupid" or "moronic". I do understand why it's offensive to people though, and I would never use it to refer to a person.
People that use "autistic" as adjective insult is incredibly problematic though. That can't even be considered a generalised term for "stupid".
People that use "autistic" as adjective insult is incredibly problematic though. That can't even be considered a generalised term for "stupid".
RuinerPrime
Member
I use it a lot. Normally not directed at a person tho. A situation that I'm upset with or something in the game or movie or even to myself when I do something stupid. "That's fucking retarded"
You forgot the 'someone else', you're a part of this. And the friends of your friends. You can't control everyone else, but you can you. And that would be taking personal responsibility for that highly offensive word you refuse to give up but assume isn't doing any harm even though the group affected has politely asked you to do so. They want it to die out, and as with spastic in the UK it can.
Or you could carry on ignoring them while this word hurts people. One is the more adult decision.
Sunset Samurai
Member
I guess being a better person doesn't fit in the criteria with the "cool kid's these days. I refer to them as inconsiderate assholes
King Tubby
Member
I am taking personal responsibility by being judicious with how I say the word and who I say it around. Like you say, I can't control everyone else, and I don't feel the inclination to try to shame my friends out of saying the word because I'm confident in their consideration of others.
I can't control whether other people use the word to hurt people, I can only control whether I do, and that's exactly what I do. It's okay if you think I'm an asshole, I think you're misguided.
You know what would happen if a friend of a friend of mine used the word to hurt somebody's feelings? We would call them out on it and tell them not to do it again.
You don't understand it at all, it's a butterfly effect.
And you are one particularly stubborn butterfly. i will leave it at this because I can't explain it any other way and this is frustrating as well as depressing,
The "r word" is used to describe something stupid. "That gun is retarded." Other offensive words have kind of evolved into another meaning. I hear, "that's gay" a ton and I understand no one is actually thinking of gay people when they say it. Maybe when it first started, but its odd to see evolution, which would help progress be shut down. Why not change the meaning of some offensive words? Does my post make sense? lol
King Tubby
Member
To extend an olive branch, I mostly sympathize with you. I cringe whenever I hear someone call something or someone retarded in a public setting because I know it can hit a sore spot. It makes me very angry when people who suffer from such disabilities, especially children, are bullied.
I simply have an aversion to the idea that saying things in a private context has some inherent negative impact to any significant degree. I'm not going to police my language in the few sanctuaries of free expression afforded to me for the remote possibility that somehow it will cause someone somewhere some harm at the hand of someone who isn't me. I'm pretty sure I cause more harm just smoking a couple of cigarettes everyday.
excelsiorlef
Member
But we still call gay people gay because that's the word, it's not progress to change it to mean something bad... Gay isn't offense... using it to mean something is bad is offensive.
And why do you think the R word is used to call something stupid? Because it's source comes for what was once a medical diagnosis for people with intellectual developmental disorders. Literally the word was still in use until DSM-5 was published in 2013.... It's being changed because even medical professionals recognize it's outdated... and why is it outdated because people started using it as an insult...
You are not reclaiming the word or changing it you are just using it as the pejorative that it's been used as forever...
Well if you were a monk, I'd say go for it. A foul-mouthed monk who has yet to find salvation could even be a money-spinner if handled well.
But this talk of casually throwing around the word with friends, who do the same with their friends, and their friends. That's the problem.
I did not explain my point well. Thought so. The R word is constantly used to describe something stupid. Someone says something wrong, "you r word?" Is this just a TN thing because I've heard it my whole life. My point is people are still using that word terribly regardless. Takes no shame to throw that trash around. I grew up saying, "that's gay," but never thought about what that really meant to say it.
And yes, you are correct. The word gay is being used in a negative way. Its become way too normal, which is why my post was all shit in a basket.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm confused are you saying use or don't use R word and Gay?
I was surprised with how quick the pushback against gay as a pejorative was, considering how widespread it had become.
But it still took too long, it's like everyone just let it carry on and then suddenly went "Oh, gay people are people too, we better not do this". It took gay rights making some progress before it was considered bad as opposed to not that bad.
And this is why I think retard is important, it's because we can raise disabled people up in society and stop this in one go.
But it still took too long, it's like everyone just let it carry on and then suddenly went "Oh, gay people are people too, we better not do this". It took gay rights making some progress before it was considered bad as opposed to not that bad.
And this is why I think retard is important, it's because we can raise disabled people up in society and stop this in one go.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The difference, I think, is that, absent religious conviction, it is very difficult to hold onto the idea that there is something wrong with being gay, or with homosexual behavior more generally. Being intellectually disabled/mentally retarded, however, is an objectively undesirable and detrimental state of being, and the negative aspect of it that fueled it's metaphorization is an innate feature of it, not a learned social stigma. You don't have to gate or think of someone as unworthy of rights to notice that, nor incorporate it into your linguistic choices.
charlequin
Banned
Yes.
The Salt Life
Banned
The frequency at which it has been used has not changed in the last 38 years I've been around.
I wouldn't call someone retarded now a days simply because I work with that community that was formerly labeled that. I have to constantly remind new employees we don't use that word here. Even though some day hab places still use it in the title of their companies.
But if I'm at home working on the truck and I'm getting frustrated with something I'll still curse out "this is fucking retarded"
I wouldn't call someone retarded now a days simply because I work with that community that was formerly labeled that. I have to constantly remind new employees we don't use that word here. Even though some day hab places still use it in the title of their companies.
But if I'm at home working on the truck and I'm getting frustrated with something I'll still curse out "this is fucking retarded"
I said the word a lot when I was younger growing up then when I was about 20 I met the ex girlfriend's family and one of her sisters has downs, of course during the night I said it for some reason or other and I still remember it; the ex, her parents and other sister all stopped what they were doing and looked straight at me.
I was like "What?" completely puzzled what I had said and my ex said that word is really offensive and I shouldn't say it. I haven't said it again since.
So every time someone says it in front of me I just say the same and hope they are saying it out of ignorance not malice.
I was like "What?" completely puzzled what I had said and my ex said that word is really offensive and I shouldn't say it. I haven't said it again since.
So every time someone says it in front of me I just say the same and hope they are saying it out of ignorance not malice.
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