Support NeoGAF

[2Smashed4U]

Your passive aggression doesn't bother me.



I'd argue it was actually headed that way until a bunch of people decided it wasn't okay to use.

It's not passive, dickhead.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

I've received a temp ban for using the term the OP is talking about and I've seen one other person get a temp ban as well.

This place is a progressive haven in context of this topic.

Wouldn't u get a ban for just insulting someone in general tho? Isn't calling someone an idiot on here still ban worthy?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Your passive aggression doesn't bother me.

That wasn't passive aggressiveness. And neither will this be: The argument of "robbing" the word of its power is an absolutely tired and asinine one.

 

[John Caboose]

For the record, I feel you and I agree in some ways. I think there's an argument to be made that for being disabled to be a negative, it's that not being able to do certain things makes a person less, which I don't think is inherently true. For example, if someone is paralyzed and in a wheel chair, they undoubtedly have less ability than able bodied people and to assert that there is something "wrong" about being disabled is kind of backhanded to certain people in that regard.

If that makes sense.

Yeah that's exactly how I feel. Thanks for the explanation.

Self censorship is dumb. IMO, say the word or dont. If you say it with context it wont be offensive to anyone. Aside from that "Fuck" is a fun word.

Yeah I'm in this camp too. This "[letter]-word" stuff is unneccessary. Most people would recognize the difference between actively using and simply referring to a word. There's a huge difference between "I don't say "retarded" anymore." and "Game X looks retarded".

I mean, who really cares about your opinion here, though? It already exists and is in widespread use amongst the communities in question, and it kind of suggests you don't fully "get it" if you don't recognize how that demonstrates the value and utility of the concept.



"Disabled" is actually far and away the preferred term amongst people in the disability community (both physical and mental/neurological) these days. "Differently abled" is some silly 80s shit mostly proposed by people who were not in fact disabled, and I don't think almost anyone would actually suggest it today.



FWIW, while there isn't universal consensus on this, most neurodivergent activists are opposed to people-first language, as it suggests (for example) that a "person with autism" is entirely separable from the condition, vs "autistic person" that more correctly suggests that autism is a fundamental part of the person's personality and experience.

We're on a discussion forum in a thread specifically about how and if certain words should be used. Pulling the "who cares about your opinion" card isn't very effective in this context. Talking about "universal consensus" in the same post isn't exactly helping either.

Finally, let me rephrase the "I get it" thing:

I see the point of why one would want language like this but I don't agree with it making a valuable difference. You obviously disagree and that's fine.

 

[1upsuper]

We're on a discussion forum in a thread specifically about how and if certain words should be used. Pulling the "who cares about your opinion" card isn't very effective in this context. Talking about "universal consensus" in the same post isn't exactly helping either.

Finally, let me rephrase the "I get it" thing:

I see the point of why one would want language like this but I don't agree with it making a valuable difference. You obviously disagree and that's fine.

It's just a strangely flippant and dismissive thing to say when you aren't someone who fits under these labels. Can you explain why you don't think they make a valuable difference?

 

[Aaron Strife]

I've received a temp ban for using the term the OP is talking about and I've seen one other person get a temp ban as well.

This place is a progressive haven in context of this topic.

I understand that the mods aren't going to catch everything, but I've seen people use "retarded" before without any repercussion in reference to video games or Trump supporters or whatever without any consequence. Maybe there was and I didn't see it, idk. Seems like using a homophobic or racial slur in any context is more likely to get the banhammer dropped on you (not that people should be allowed to use those words either).

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I understand that the mods aren't going to catch everything, but I've seen people use "retarded" before without any repercussion in reference to video games or Trump supporters or whatever without any consequence. Maybe there was and I didn't see it, idk. Seems like using a homophobic or racial slur in any context is more likely to get the banhammer dropped on you (not that people should be allowed to use those words either).

People seem less likely to call out a poster when they use it. So I assume it gets lost in the stream.

 

[charlequin]

I'd argue it was actually headed that way until a bunch of people decided it wasn't okay to use.

I mean, this is based on... what? It's presumably not based on something like the reports of kids who've attended special education classrooms in the last decade or so, because "oh yeah we got totally chill about being called retards" is not the report you would have gotten there.

I see the point of why one would want language like this but I don't agree with it making a valuable difference.

My point here is that unless you have a position staked out by virtue of being a member of the affected contingent and based in lived experience, your opinion on the topic has no real innate value. The distinction exists because people with cognitive and intellectual disabilities needed a way to describe the differences they experience in their life and interaction with society. It's masturbatory for you to stake out the position that you "don't think it's necessary" or whatever, because it isn't relevant to you either way and the concept is already well-established as a valuable distinction to the people for whom it is relevant.

 

[John Caboose]

It's just a strangely flippant and dismissive thing to say when you aren't someone who fits under these labels. Can you explain why you don't think they make a valuable difference?

Basically it is what was said earlier. To me, using neurodiverse over autistic since "it's better" implies that there's something wrong with being on the spectrum or at the very least that being "autistic" is somehow worse than being "neurodiverse".

I'm not sure if you follow but hopefully you can get what I mean.

My point here is that unless you have a position staked out by virtue of being a member of the affected contingent and based in lived experience, your opinion on the topic has no real innate value. The distinction exists because people with cognitive and intellectual disabilities needed a way to describe the differences they experience in their life and interaction with society. It's masturbatory for you to stake out the position that you "don't think it's necessary" or whatever, because it isn't relevant to you either way and the concept is already well-established as a valuable distinction to the people for whom it is relevant.

I respectfully disagree with you that not being directly affected makes my opinion hold no value. If you had went for "less important" or something that wasn't just an all or nothing thing I might have agreed with you. Anyway I've made my case so I'm out.

 

[SapientWolf]

The people that co-opted the word "retarded" were so mean spirited that the word is now too harsh for polite society. "Intellectually disabled" is already being used colloquially the same way "dumb" is because it doesn't sound as toxic.

I think we're hearing it more now because being harsh and mean spirited has somehow become a desirable trait amongst certain groups. I guess Trump is their mascot.

 

[muntersaur]

That wasn't passive aggressiveness. And neither will this be: The argument of "robbing" the word of its power is an absolutely tired and asinine one.

Words only have power if you allow them too. By banning a word, you are giving that word power. The very common usage of retard without specifically being about disability means that retard is going the same way as dumb, moron and idiot. By banning the word, people who want to be deliberately​ hateful have a more powerful word to use.

Look at how the word cunt is used in America vs. UK and Australia. In the US, it is taboo to use it in almost any context, and has become a powerful swear word because of it. In the UK and US, cunt is often simply used as a synonym for idiot and stupid and has lost much of its power because of it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Words only have power if you allow them too. By banning a word, you are giving that word power.

Absolutely false.

Also who is calling for it to be banned?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Words only have power if you allow them too. By banning a word, you are giving that word power. The very common usage of retard without specifically being about disability means that retard is going the same way as dumb, moron and idiot. By banning the word, people who want to be deliberately​ hateful have a more powerful word to use.

Look at how the word cunt is used in America vs. UK and Australia. In the US, it is taboo to use it in almost any context, and has become a powerful swear word because of it. In the UK and US, cunt is often simply used as a synonym for idiot and stupid and has lost much of its power because of it.

Do you run around and call every African-American a nigger too? Call every LGBTQIA individual a faggot?

What some people perceive as intellectual laziness and justifying bad behavior is actually you being a hero!!!

 

[wildfire]

Wouldn't u get a ban for just insulting someone in general tho? Isn't calling someone an idiot on here still ban worthy?

Yes you do get a ban for insulting someone directly but that wasn't the case for my ban. I got a ban for quoting a well known phrase for anyone who has seen Tropic Thunder to describe my view how we as a group should avoid a problem.

 

[xxracerxx]

Words only have power if you allow them too. By banning a word, you are giving that word power. The very common usage of retard without specifically being about disability means that retard is going the same way as dumb, moron and idiot. By banning the word, people who want to be deliberately​ hateful have a more powerful word to use.

Look at how the word cunt is used in America vs. UK and Australia. In the US, it is taboo to use it in almost any context, and has become a powerful swear word because of it. In the UK and US, cunt is often simply used as a synonym for idiot and stupid and has lost much of its power because of it.

So it's all about cucking words. Got ya.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Words only have power if you allow them too. By banning a word, you are giving that word power. The very common usage of retard without specifically being about disability means that retard is going the same way as dumb, moron and idiot. By banning the word, people who want to be deliberately​ hateful have a more powerful word to use.

Look at how the word cunt is used in America vs. UK and Australia. In the US, it is taboo to use it in almost any context, and has become a powerful swear word because of it. In the UK and US, cunt is often simply used as a synonym for idiot and stupid and has lost much of its power because of it.

Spastic/spaz got wiped out in the UK after years of use. People stopped using it because they knew better, and it fell out of use completely.

This is a positive change, it worked, and people didn't suddenly want to use that banned, nuclear-bomb level word. They grew up, the adults as well as the kids. At least a little bit.

 

[Woo-Fu]

That words change meaning all the time?

I'm guessing we can't use idiot, moron, dumb because there are people who are actually born that way and it's offensive to them if we use them so casually.

Well, you probably shouldn't use idiot or moron to describe someone if you're worried about people being offended. Didn't your mother ever tell you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, keep your mouth shut." ??? I'd even shy away from dumb and perhaps use "not very good" instead. "I do not think that is a very good idea." for instance in stead of "That's a dumb idea." Going a few words out of your way now and then in an effort to be polite and inoffensive is the lubricant that keeps civilized people from killing each other.

In this particular case the meaning of the word as commonly used hasn't changed in the last ~50 years, at the very least. Unless everybody you have a discussion with carries and refers to a dictionary before saying anything it doesn't matter what it says in Webster.

The only time I hear an adult use it in person nowadays is when it is 2-3 people who are all very upset about a person and/or situation. Obviously a person who isn't present for that discussion.

 

[Muffin1611]

I thought this was about the word "Republican" when I read the title.

 

[HStallion]

This post is funny because "idiot" and "moron" used to mean the same thing retard did.

Not sure why we draw the line at retard. Seems like using it a lot would rob it of any power it has, just like idiot and moron.

I really get tired of seeing this whole "the meaning of words change over time argument" as it seems to miss the forest for the tree's. Once more I'll quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Yes words change. We all get that as people keep repeating that point like its sound kind of end all and be all response to this topic. Thing is today the word retard still holds a lot of very negative connotations that words like slow long ago since lost. Maybe one day in the future the word retard will be common place as idiot with none of the negativity but until that day rolls around lets try and be a little respectful to marginalized groups and those that support them here and now.

 

[Downhome]

Here in SC I work as a job coach for a local state Disabilities and Special Meeds organization. A few years ago they formally changed the "mentally retarded" (MR) diagnosis to "intellectuall disability" (ID). No one is allowed to use any form of the word retarded anymore. If you are caught using it, especially in the form of a putdown, no matter if towards someone or even a situation or whatever, it is a fireable offense.

 

[King Tubby]

It seems like every clinical term for...whatever "mentally retarded" did or does represent eventually ends up being used as an insult, which eventually ends up turning said term into a slur, depending on how popular it becomes. I hardly ever hear the term "retard," but I do hear (and use) "retarded", usually in a sense more related to the dictionary definition of delayed or slowed.

 

[rrc1594]

I never used it, I find "dumbass" more suitable to call out someone's stupidity

 

[Boss Doggie]

Just gonna chime and say that retard as a verb is still used in scientific circles, particularly in experiments. i.e. "to retard the chemical reaction"

 

[Cheech]

I haven't noticed it being used with any more frequency than usual.

I've always been annoyed with people who use it, and immediately assume they aren't all that intelligent. It's a big red button for me, because like many others in the thread, I'm well acquainted with the struggles that families with special needs kids endure.

What I like to do with these people who use that word is say, "no, that person isn't special needs, but they aren't all that bright". Sort of redirect their use of that word to a more correct term in how they think of somebody with those conditions. Doesn't always work, but baby steps!

 

[StrawberryJam]

Saw the title and thought the r word was redneck haha. Honestly I never hear people saying retarded, but then I'm in Scotland and we have different words to disparage disabled people.

 

[lazygecko]

also the "autistic screeching" meme is super gross too

People who use autistic as a pejorative always turn out to be obnoxious edgelords, so it's a useful metric for whom to ignore.

 

[supermarioworldE]

It seems to be as accepted as it ever was, which is a shame. It's only in the last few years that I've noticed any push to not use the word. There are still many high profile and common people who use it without much blowback, so I'd imagine it's still a widely accepted slur.

 

[nailbombxx]

Making fun of the word autistic is what's more popular among children now

 

[Grath]

Very interesting and shorter-than-I-thought history of the word in the English language from Wikipedia:

The word retard dates as far back as 1426. It stems from the Latin verb, retardare, meaning to hinder or make slow. The English adopted the word and used it as similar meaning, slow and delayed. The first time the word "retard" was printed in American newspapers was in 1704. At this time, it was used in a way to describe the slowing down or the diminishing of something. The first time that any form of retard was used to describe mentally disabled people was during the 1960s when "there was a push among disability advocates to use the label mental retardation". This push from advocates was because older terms for the mentally disabled, like moron, imbecile, feeble minded and idiot, had developed negative meanings. Retard was not used to refer to mentally disabled people until 1985. It was widely accepted to refer to people who are mentally disabled as mentally retarded, or as a retard. From there, it turned quickly into a pejorative term, as people began to use it interchangeably with words like stupid, or idiot.

Do you guys think every expression used to objectively or scientifically describe mentally disabled people will turn very fast into a pejorative word, then the more progressive part of society will try to stop using it, invent or find a new term for it and then the whole cycle starts again?

 

[Subpar Scrub]

One of the few bad words that I actively took out of my vocabulary. When I was young and stupid I used it far too often. I've completely cut it out along with using gay as a derogatory term. Not proud of it in the least but I can admit it. I still probably swear too often but now it's limited to the left offensive ones, "fuck, shit, etc"

I'm pretty much the same way. Sometimes I'll catch myself saying that a concept or way of doing things is "retarded" in my mind, but I'm trying to stop doing that and I haven't actually said it in like 5 years, excluding quotes.

Making fun of the word autistic is what's more popular among children now

Yeah I know a bunch of people who use "REEEEEE" memes semi-frequently.

 

[NandoGip]

I definitely see people using it a bit more, but it's like saying "faggot" or "cunt". It makes everyone slightly uncomfortable for a moment and it gives an impression to others about your inner morals/ethics real quickly

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Making fun of the word autistic is what's more popular among children now

Yeah, this is the big one in online awful game chat. It's been around for decades, but now it feels like the common, "accepted" (meaning, "easy to get away with because I'm an asshole") new way among teenage bros to call someone the r-word.

 

[Kyzer]

Youre allowed to say the word "retard" when discussing the word and its repercussions, its still also a word. You dont have to censor yourself and call it the r slur, the whole reason its offensive as a slur is because there are actual mentally retarded people, so its fucked up to call things retarded as if the word implies something really negative

 

[ozz ex machina]

I definitely see people using it a bit more, but it's like saying "faggot" or "cunt". It makes everyone slightly uncomfortable for a moment and it gives an impression to others about your inner morals/ethics real quickly

Cunt is practically used as a term of affection where I come from. It's all subjective. If a group of friends say stuff is retarded it's fine by me.

As ever. It completely depends on the situation. Nothing is black and white and these conversations are boring.

 

[RangerX]

People have never stopped using it. I heard someone use it today.

 

[Rien]

It really doesnt bother me if people call me retarded or
autistic. I am suffering from a lot of mental issues since the age of 12 (31 years old now) and i am diagnosed with a form of autism.
Dunno, maybe i have a thick skin.
It does bother me if they call people with mental issues (depression and social anxiety in my case) just people who feel sorry for themself or searching for attention.

Edit:

Sorry for my response not really matching the OP's post. Didnt read the post to well.

 

[Red Devil]

Maybe it's less common, I see autist/autism/autistic or sperg/sperging used more commonly lately.

One that's nowhere as bad as those but kind of bothers me is when people say like "this/that is cancer/cancerous" though, but that's just me.

 

[jmdajr]

I don't use it anymore.

 

[Aurongel]

I've seen it mostly on gaming side which isnt surprising. I've only mistakenly used it a handful of times in the past few years and am very conscious of the nastiness inherent to it. It's a dated term that doesn't really have a useful place in modern discourse.

Get rid of one misused or overused mental health term and another will pop up in its place. For example, I've seen the pejorative use of "retard" fall sharply in the past few years but idiots online describing others as "autists" is a disturbing trend I've noticed.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Me and all my friends use it still. I don't really see it as a slur.

I wouldn't call a mentally challenged person a retard obviously. But when my friend does something stupid I'll call him a retard. Or describe something as retarded.

 

[muntersaur]

Do you run around and call every African-American a nigger too? Call every LGBTQIA individual a faggot?

What some people perceive as intellectual laziness and justifying bad behavior is actually you being a hero!!!

I do not understand what your second paragraph means, I am not trying to be a hero about anything.

As for your first part, of course I do not, and for the record I do not go around spouting retard either. I just think that trying to restrict the usage of retard risks turning a low-grade insult into a higher grade insult.

So it's all about cucking words. Got ya.

I have only recently learned what cuck is through this forum, and I do not understand the context of its usage here.

Spastic/spaz got wiped out in the UK after years of use. People stopped using it because they knew better, and it fell out of use completely.

This is a positive change, it worked, and people didn't suddenly want to use that banned, nuclear-bomb level word. They grew up, the adults as well as the kids. At least a little bit.

Yes, I am from the UK and was part of the generation born in the 80s who used the word spastic. At the time SCOPE was known as the spastic's society, and like retard, is a legitimate medical term.

Has the usage of spastic stopped because of a movement to restrict its usage, or has the word simply dropped out of favour as many words do?

I remember the term special being used after spastic fell out of favour, and now that term is no longer heard either, but there was no movement to stop its usage. The unfortunate fact is that whatever word is used to describe the neurodivergent, as described in the OP, becomes an insult. If people in the playground start calling each other neurodivergent, do you this ban this term, and then continually try to find another?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Me and all my friends use it still. I don't really see it as a slur.

I wouldn't call a mentally challenged person a retard obviously. But when my friend does something stupid I'll call him a retard. Or describe something as retarded.

I think we all get where you're coming from, but this is an example where I think a person should examine why they act in a different, mean-spirited way with certain people while keeping up appearances to others. Why even keep up those appearances? It implies you know what you're doing but won't change anyway. Shady shit, imo, I wouldn't be able to reconcile my behavioral differences with my moral compass (which is why I changed A LOT after college).

 

[LosDaddie]

People never stopped using it.

Nailed it.

GAF is rarely an accurate gauge on use of a word/slur.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yes, I am from the UK and was part of the generation born in the 80s who used the word spastic. At the time SCOPE was known as the spastic's society, and like retard, is a legitimate medical term.

Has the usage of spastic stopped because of a movement to restrict its usage, or has the word simply dropped out of favour as many words do?

I remember the term special being used after spastic fell out of favour, and now that term is no longer heard either, but there was no movement to stop its usage. The unfortunate fact is that whatever word is used to describe the neurodivergent, as described in the OP, becomes an insult. If people in the playground start calling each other neurodivergent, do you this ban this term, and then continually try to find another?

I think the side-effect of trying to get people to stop using a word is you are also educating them on why. I remember special as well, but not for that long and not to the degree spastic was being thrown around, and maybe the reason it did fall out of favour is because it was already damaged.

If there was a real pushback against retard, you'd get the same effect. Retard casually opens the door to it all while it is still around.

 

[snitsky]

I don't think it ever stopped being common and accepted, at least in me experience.

 

[Camwi]

I see people get called out for using it pretty quickly on GAF.

 

[CryptiK]

Look at Lame, and Idiot both words used for disabilities. They aren't slurs anymore, still insulting to an extent but words evolved I guess. Lame and Idiot/Idiotic/Idiocy are said by many many people here yet there seems to be no issue with it.

 

[Zoe]

I think the side-effect of trying to get people to stop using a word is you are also educating them on why. I remember special as well, but not for that long and not to the degree spastic was being thrown around, and maybe the reason it did fall out of favour is because it was already damaged.

If there was a real pushback against retard, you'd get the same effect. Retard casually opens the door to it all while it is still around.

Funny you mention "special" because that's what Tropic Thunder gets censored to for that infamous scene on basic cable.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

It's something I've been noticing this year. People online (and in "real life") seem to be using "retard" or "retarded" in greater frequency recently. I don't know if there's been any official NeoGAF policy change in this regard but I assumed this forum was a place for relatively diverse discourse that refrained from personal attacks.

I'm not mentally handicapped in any way. With that said, I work with children and young adults who may be on the spectrum or intellectually handicapped. When I talk to them, I notice that some of their refuges seem to be gaming communities. These are their "safe spaces"; places where they express themselves in earnest. It disheartens me to see places like NeoGAF (and every other gaming forum, let's be real) devolve into places that mock any and every sort of neurodivergence. I don't want to pick on any individual poster (let's be real AGAIN, it's been an overarching trend that I've noticed) using less than inclusive language, but I just wanted some of your thoughts.

In the wake of the 2016 election, we have been discussing identity politics in regards to race and gender, but I honestly believe there hasn't been enough focus on neurodivergency. Yeah "Trump mocked a disabled reporter" was a hot headline for a few days, but now that he's president, what exactly does that signify for the populace that might need assistance in that manner? Are we becoming so desensitized to Trump's behavior that we start to accept the R-slur even in progressive havens like NeoGAF?

Sadly, no, this has been a problem for a long time. I even hear the word at work sometimes, though people pointing out that it's fucked up to use it as a slur happens much more often than it would in the wild.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Look at Lame, and Idiot both words used for disabilities. They aren't slurs anymore, still insulting to an extent but words evolved I guess. Lame and Idiot/Idiotic/Idiocy are said by many many people here yet there seems to be no issue with it.

This is the Internet age, people are expressing how and why this is damaging. We can listen to them, we can educate people about it easier than ever, so why not?

Or shall we just wait a few decades and ignore them in the meantime.