sixteen-bit
Member
Pretty good video about this trope in Science Fiction movies
https://youtu.be/0thpEyEwi80
https://youtu.be/0thpEyEwi80
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Born Sexy Yesterday
- Thread starter sixteen-bit
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Opposite of and similar to 4000 year old witch trope.
SkeptiMism
Member
Thank you. It's really disturbing once you think about it like that.
Brief summary for those unable to watch:
The video is about a science fiction trope (which the author calls "born sexy yesterday") in which there is basically a child in a sexualised woman's body, being very intelligent and in some ways highly skilled, but not really having any deeper knowledge of human interaction. Then there is also the male part of the trope, the man being sort of a teacher for the woman, showing how people are supposed to behave. The man usually ends up falling for the naive woman, and since the man is basically the only man in the woman's life and the one from whom the woman ask anything, the woman often ends up falling for him. This is brought up as a sign of male insecurity about strong experienced women, as the man is sort of the master and gets to show the pleasures of sex to the woman who doesn't yet have any such experience. The opposite situation, the man being naive and inexperienced also doesn't happen that often at least so that the woman ends up falling for him, and when it does, the woman doesn't fall in love because of the man's childlike mind, but in spite of it.
Brief summary for those unable to watch:
The video is about a science fiction trope (which the author calls "born sexy yesterday") in which there is basically a child in a sexualised woman's body, being very intelligent and in some ways highly skilled, but not really having any deeper knowledge of human interaction. Then there is also the male part of the trope, the man being sort of a teacher for the woman, showing how people are supposed to behave. The man usually ends up falling for the naive woman, and since the man is basically the only man in the woman's life and the one from whom the woman ask anything, the woman often ends up falling for him. This is brought up as a sign of male insecurity about strong experienced women, as the man is sort of the master and gets to show the pleasures of sex to the woman who doesn't yet have any such experience. The opposite situation, the man being naive and inexperienced also doesn't happen that often at least so that the woman ends up falling for him, and when it does, the woman doesn't fall in love because of the man's childlike mind, but in spite of it.
dragonlife
Member
I almost didn't come into the thread because of the name, but I'm glad I did. I guess I've been lucky to not have encountered too many things with this trope, but I'm aware of it.
This video was definitely eye-opening, and I felt grossed out through it all. Great analysis with video evidence to back it up.
This video was definitely eye-opening, and I felt grossed out through it all. Great analysis with video evidence to back it up.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
You could say the same thing about Thor in the first movie.
harriet the spy
Member
Very interesting - never liked the fifth element but I'm sure there's plenty of that in stuff I actually liked (though nothing comes directly to mind). And yes, really creepy when you think about it that way. Any media turning the trope on its head?
read about the director and his second marriage for super creepy.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Fifth element was made by the same man who literally made a lolimovie with a 12 year old girl.
"if you want my secrets you'll eat my sandwich" holy shit lmao
yeah, this always weirded me out as a kid. not exactly because of the implications at the time but because seeing grown women act like that was fuckin' weird. as an adult it's weird, irritating and highly sus.
oh shit, this too. it's so transparent.
yeah, this always weirded me out as a kid. not exactly because of the implications at the time but because seeing grown women act like that was fuckin' weird. as an adult it's weird, irritating and highly sus.
oh shit, this too. it's so transparent.
Yep, and then you see it in everything he's done practically. Leon, the weird love interest in the Jet Li movie (she's an adult that has braces and gets scolded for sneaking out to eat ice cream).
Diprosalic
Banned
Really? Can't remember but isn't there plenty of sex stuff going on in Asgard?
Thor isn't seen as childlike so much as brutish and uncivilized. More fish out of water than born yesterday
I'd argue River from Firefly subverts the trope. Her primary relationship is with her brother, rather than a romantic/sexual partner, and she is in no way sexualised throughout the show.
Just imagine if she'd been Mal's romantic interest instead
Icyflamez96
Member
This is a big sign that I need to watch more sci-fi. I've always known it to be true, but...
Count Dookkake
Member
Expected this to be about some new band.
Randy Monk
Member
What about Ex Machina? Does Ava character fit the trope?
I'd say it's more of a subversion of it. She (and the film) plays into it only to mercilessly cut off the male character by the end.
Good question!
Spoiler for Ex Machina:
No, as Ava only pretends to be naive in order to manipulate the men in the film. I would say this is a clear example of the trope being subverted
jakonovski
Member
I didn't like that. They went overboard with it, no reason for her to be so cruel (leaving the guy to starve to death) and short sighted (can't get back to the only place with the tech to fix her). It's like the raison d'etre for the android was to make a storytelling point.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Yeah, and you have Tarzan and stuff too. In the case where it's the dude who's uneducated or out of their element, they tend to be more animalistic or brutish than innocent or naive.
This video makes you realise how creepy this stuff can get when you isolate it haha
Randy Monk
Member
If she wasn't a young sexy Turing test specimen would Caleb have helped her to the extent he did? I agree the ending subverts the trope but during the course of the movie she displays a naivety about the outside world but is quite wise to what's happening in the compound.
She isn't really naive about her relationship with Caleb, though - she's pretending - and romantic/sexual naivety seems to be the centre point of the trope.
Although for much of the film it seems the trope is being played straight, the ending reveals Caleb and the audience were being tricked all along.
Although for much of the film it seems the trope is being played straight, the ending reveals Caleb and the audience were being tricked all along.
Count Dookkake
Member
Not a bad video, but I cringed at his final admonition, "Innocence is not sexy; experience is sexy."
I lol'ed when youtube autoplay cued up SEXY FAILS next.
I lol'ed when youtube autoplay cued up SEXY FAILS next.
Would explain most of Besson's career, especially Leon.
SporeCrawler
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Count Dookkake
Member
Imo, neither is or isn't.
The rest of the video is well-argued and that just feels like an opinion tagged on at the end.
C
Contica
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, yeah? Ok, I see your point, but then my dad is 11 years older than my mum and she was 16 when they met. I get what you're saying, but if anyone called my dad creepy I'd punch their teeth in.
Japanese media in general tends to infantilize women and adolescents. I can think of tons of late teen to twenty-something characters that act like young children for no apparent plot-driven reason. Look at Elise in Fire Emblem Fates for example.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not really "tagged," it's more like summing up why the prevalence of this gross shit has persisted throughout genre fiction. It keeps getting in because people keep feeding the notion that "innocence is sexy," and the innocence is sexy because it speaks to the opportunity for a guy to mark that innocence. Leave a mark on it. Defile it, in some darker, more direct applications of it.
Stating the opposite is a way to sum-up the entire point of the video, which is to defuse that notion to some extent.
If the video is well argued and then that line makes you "cringe," it seems to say that the central idea of the video rubs you wrong, and probably didn't work the way the creator intended. You watched it all the way through and the plain statement of the idea made you "cringe."
You need to remove yourself from the fact that it's your dad, and think about how you would feel if your grade 11 daughter was dating a 27 year old man. Plenty of those sorts of relationships have worked out in the long term, but people are still going to find them sketchy. Parents are still going to be against them (at least in North America)
Granted, I have no idea what culture you are from. That sort of age gap at a younger age is more common in some places than it is in others.
Count Dookkake
Member
Nah. I don't find fault with any of the video, just the end. I don't see it as an accurate summation of the preceding content.
Oh, well. No need to play armchair psychologist.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Dunno how you couldn't.
Weird, creepy men have been feeding the notion in genre fiction that the ideal woman is a hot, childlike rube who doesn't know anything about sex before you fuck the notion into her. It exists to pervert the notion of "innocence" in a couple ways. So that's why that closing line is there.
The closing line you "cringed" at.
Starman is weird territory for a couple reasons (I really like that movie a LOT, and Bridges is great in the role) the biggest being the naive alien isn't just an "innocent," he's occupying the body of a woman's deceased husband. There's a lot of shit tied up in that.
Count Dookkake
Member
I don't find fault with the bolded observation, but that's not what the final sentence says.
There's really not much else to say.
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