Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Man, you got really triggered by the responses to the OP, huh?
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Summoning other players/NPCs in Souls makes bosses trivial and you should feel bad
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
Man, you got really triggered by the responses to the OP, huh?
Head of Vengarl
Banned
For real though, DS3 was my first Souls game and the summon/invade mechanic blew me away! It's such a neat way to incorporate some multiplayer action into a single-player game.
Also, fuck the haters like OP. Summoning and being summoned to help with boss fights added easily 100+ more hours of gaming time for me. It's so much fun.
Also, fuck the haters like OP. Summoning and being summoned to help with boss fights added easily 100+ more hours of gaming time for me. It's so much fun.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oooooh snap you sure got me!
Seriously though, you're a perfect example. Listen to yourself, you literally wrote "fuck off with this shit" to the OP. Bruh, c'mon.
Edit: this reminds me of the guy who got super-offended at a random person making a joke about his favourite sports team (based on his shirt, said "sorry we don't deserve fans of ___ here" as a joke) and he made a thread about it.
JumpJeff84
Member
Souls games are my favorite games ever, but I summon people all the time. I don't give a shit, it's fun and I don't get enjoyment out of banging my head against a wall over and over
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Yeah and I stand by it. Fuck off with this shit.
This "Git gud" thing is annoying, pathetic and embarrassing and the sooner it finally stops, the better.
I disagree, OP.
Co-op is super fun. There is a really satisfying feeling you get when you and one or more allies team up and take down an annoying boss. I don't really use summons that much, but I have in the past. I don't think I used summons at all in Dark Souls 1 or 3, and I remember using summons for the Orphan of Kos in the Bloodborne DLC (although they ended up dying in the first 30 seconds of the match, so I had to face him myself anyway).
I agree that the boss battles are a highlight of Souls games, but they can be enjoyed equally solo or with a companion. The games are just damn fun to play. I wish there was a more traditional co-op system, because it's just fun running through the levels with a friend and kicking monster's asses together.
I usually do my first playthrough solo, then any new game+/subsequent playthroughs, I help out other players or co-op with friends.
Co-op is super fun. There is a really satisfying feeling you get when you and one or more allies team up and take down an annoying boss. I don't really use summons that much, but I have in the past. I don't think I used summons at all in Dark Souls 1 or 3, and I remember using summons for the Orphan of Kos in the Bloodborne DLC (although they ended up dying in the first 30 seconds of the match, so I had to face him myself anyway).
I agree that the boss battles are a highlight of Souls games, but they can be enjoyed equally solo or with a companion. The games are just damn fun to play. I wish there was a more traditional co-op system, because it's just fun running through the levels with a friend and kicking monster's asses together.
I usually do my first playthrough solo, then any new game+/subsequent playthroughs, I help out other players or co-op with friends.
GinoFelino
Member
That's a bad thing to say to someone 100% of the time​every time
Imp, OP, meant well, I think. He's never been arrogant or unfriendly in a thread. He just fell victim to some poor phrasing.
FrontalMonk
Banned
To be fair, statements along the lines of "co-op makes the game trivial and you suck if you use it" is a *really* common thread among the souls community, and not in a cheeky way. The picture of the souls community is one of a bunch of hardcore elitist tryhards, and essentially calling sun bros a bunch of filthy casuals doesn't particularly change many minds.
Riposte
Member
By jumping into Souls with any approach, they've likely already ran into points where they should've "stopped playing" (the first of these is that the game doesn't tell you to pick an "Easy Mode" in the first place). And yet they didn't stop playing and maybe they ended up liking the game more than they would like most games (and the series itself has gone on to develop a reputation that may not have existed if fewer of those points of crisis existed) even though in the short term it caused them a bit of pain. Your logic here, weakly supported by both "it's just a videogame" (as opposed to the next videogame you'll eventually play after mindlessly breezing through this one instead of sticking with it?) and going for an increasing amount of extremes to represent time wasted (a few tries and hours, then days, perhaps next will be months and years), is short-sighted.
Maximizing your enjoyment of the videogame (and far beyond that: of all time you'll be spending playing any and all videogames in a meta sense) may involve taking those hits to your ego directly, a concept I don't think should be foreign to Souls players - bigger challenge, bigger satisfaction. Maybe working your way out of getting stuck will, after some delay, will be a better experience in retrospect than gliding your way through (and becoming increasingly accustomed to the idea that your frustration with the game's depth is merely an avoidable inconvenience you are putting on yourself). Frustration, which is apart of the experience, will always tell you it's time to quit, but you can't really know for sure if that's for the best. If it's the year 2034 and you still haven't beaten Ornstein and Smough, then yeah, reconsider. But since a lot of humans were capable of defeating O&S, and arguably even harder challenges of the series, solo... maybe you can too? You may end up losing more if you sell yourself short. This is especially true if the only option is to drop the game outright, if we move away from Souls and towards something with fewer easy ways out.
CaviarMeths
Member
I don't know what's more inducing of groans, sentiments like OP expressed here or the usual "X game should be like Souls" threads.
Exr
Member
Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"
They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?
They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?
SmoothRunningGun
Member
How about I play the game how I want and you do the same op?
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I agree, that's why I wrote it. Maybe check the post I replied to.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I can understand why people would be opposed to the addition of an easy mode, but damn, this thread is so ridiculous it comes off as parody.
You said it yourself, OP was literally taunting people for "not being good enough"
It's elitist as hell and quite frankly OP deserves all the shit that was slung at them
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
K
Maybe, though I think it's grossly exaggerated, I've never really seen it being taken seriously. And I am at a loss as to why people would take it seriously in the OP, especially when you actually read the OP beyond the thread title, or understand the obvious Futurama reference in the title.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Conversely, if you're in a UFC cage match and you're an overweight, out of shape dude who isn't a professional, where's the shame in asking for help? I summoned my way through DS1 and 2, and I'll probably do the same with BB and DS3, and your cringe at being lumped in with me for having both beaten the same game is the kind of smarmy bullshit that the souls community is fucking infamous for.
*ahem*
That's not elitist. That's playing around. Don't use words when you don't know what they mean.
When people ask for the Souls games to have an easy mode thats a tell tale sign to me that they haven't summoned people.
On topic - summoning makes the game a little more varied and fun especially if you have friends who also play the game. In some of the earlier Souls games it made some bosses manageable (see: Bulk & Skull)
On topic - summoning makes the game a little more varied and fun especially if you have friends who also play the game. In some of the earlier Souls games it made some bosses manageable (see: Bulk & Skull)
A Link to the Past
Banned
To be fair, I think "X should be like Souls" is more just a shortened version of "Souls games' design concepts should be taken into consideration when designing games in the future."
I think the OP is ridiculous, but yeah, I was surprised to see people take that line so seriously. I think GAF has started to appreciate the perspective of the non-hardcore more over the past two years, and for the better, but to have such a reaction seems overkill.
Vindicator
Member
Platinumed all except DS2 but Sister Friede was too much, only time i've summoned another player.
FrontalMonk
Banned
SL1 DDR Pad run or bust.
The snobby elitism of the Souls fanbase is one of the most off-putting things about it.
I absolutely adore the Souls games, from Demon's Souls down to Dark Souls 3, but hot damn do I stay away from the community. Yes, the games are challenging, and it feels good to be one of the folks who have braved it and came out on top, but holy fuck you don't have to be such smug pricks about it. It's a god damn video game. Relax.
I grew up in the 80's, playing games that make the Souls series look like edutainment, but I'm not going to be an ass about it.
Besides, Soulsborne speed runners make all of us look like noobs anyway.
I absolutely adore the Souls games, from Demon's Souls down to Dark Souls 3, but hot damn do I stay away from the community. Yes, the games are challenging, and it feels good to be one of the folks who have braved it and came out on top, but holy fuck you don't have to be such smug pricks about it. It's a god damn video game. Relax.
I grew up in the 80's, playing games that make the Souls series look like edutainment, but I'm not going to be an ass about it.
Besides, Soulsborne speed runners make all of us look like noobs anyway.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I really wish that was the case, because most of the time being "souls like" just means "the game is hard and cryptic" while DS is much more than that.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
All the community threads here on GAF for all the Souls games are friendly, open, welcoming, and helpful.
But don't let that stop you from expressing your moral superiority, I guess.
Berserking Guts
Member
I don't think anyone should care how somebody wants to play their games. If you want to pass a boss with the tools provided and fucking team stomp a boss under a minute or two, go ahead, right? Everyone has their own set of standards for these things. I'd rather take the time to learn the intricacies of a boss; learn his move-sets, adapt to all those nuanced tells, and reap the satisfaction of destroying a boss who's been hammering me. In this way I feel like I've fully appreciated the challenge the developers have presented me.
On the other hand: not everyone necessarily wants to be gated off from a game they've invested hours into. There are bosses in souls that can be fucking ridiculous, and are -- not being an elitist asshole here -- beyond the skill sets of some people. And that just sucks. Especially if you've invested so much of yourself into the game already.
And then there's other people who just wanna have a good time and play with their friends. Or, because of time restraints CAN'T dedicate that kinda patience.
I believe there is so much more to Souls then just the satisfaction of killing bosses. And I think it's really cool that FROM has seamlessly made a way to cater to solo challenge and multi fun. Souls has always been a community driven thing anyway. You co-op every time you read a message lol
On the other hand: not everyone necessarily wants to be gated off from a game they've invested hours into. There are bosses in souls that can be fucking ridiculous, and are -- not being an elitist asshole here -- beyond the skill sets of some people. And that just sucks. Especially if you've invested so much of yourself into the game already.
And then there's other people who just wanna have a good time and play with their friends. Or, because of time restraints CAN'T dedicate that kinda patience.
I believe there is so much more to Souls then just the satisfaction of killing bosses. And I think it's really cool that FROM has seamlessly made a way to cater to solo challenge and multi fun. Souls has always been a community driven thing anyway. You co-op every time you read a message lol
FrontalMonk
Banned
All the community threads here on GAF for all the Souls games are friendly, open, welcoming, and helpful.
But don't let that stop you from expressing your moral superiority, I guess.
Community side in general is a lot less intense.
I'll never understand why people rob themselves of the satisfaction of learning a boss and taking it down on their own at least the first time through the game. The games are kinda built around this and you're voluntarily removing most of the game from your experience.
To each their own I guess. I disagree that anyone who advocates for playing solo is a git gud elitist. It depends on the tone of their thoughts about it, but summoning definitely makes a lot of the bosses very easy. I don't think that can be disputed.
To each their own I guess. I disagree that anyone who advocates for playing solo is a git gud elitist. It depends on the tone of their thoughts about it, but summoning definitely makes a lot of the bosses very easy. I don't think that can be disputed.
All the community threads here on GAF for all the Souls games are friendly, open, welcoming, and helpful.
But don't let that stop you from expressing your moral superiority, I guess.
How friendly and helpful these threads are if someone wishes for easy difficulty though? Maybe even because of their disability. Gently ribbing like "git gud cripple"?
MontyBrown
Banned
I played Demon's Souls 100% solo and beat it.
Summoned whenever I got stuck for too long in Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 and Bloodborne.
Both fine experiences. No right or wrong way.
Summoned whenever I got stuck for too long in Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 and Bloodborne.
Both fine experiences. No right or wrong way.
test_account
XP-39C²
While i do solo the Souls games myself, i'm glad that people are summoning. Helping people with bosses extends the replay value for me.
Idea: People play games to have fun
People have fun in different ways. I have fun playing with friends and it's as intense as if I beat a boss by myself.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wait what? You think people in those OTs are gonna throw ableist slurs? Jesus...
outunderthestars
Banned
This. OP le me know when you open up a Patreon campaign so I can further support you telling us how we should be enjoying our spare time.
If you're playing a sport or you're playing a fighting game and the person you're playing with trash talks, are you going to stop playing and call them elitist? That's a hell of leap in assumptions to believe they're being dead serious.
I don't have a problem with people summoning in for help on bosses. With that said, don't brag that you beat O&S in 3 attempts while leaving out the fact that you summoned someone to help. If you have a problem with summoning, you need to take it up with From Software because clearly they think it's okay to be there.
If you have a problem with summoning, you need to take it up with From Software because clearly they think it's okay to be there.Nothing wrong with that. I've had a ton of fun doing souls bosses co-op.
But pointing out that there is deeper level available to be experienced with the boss fights that co-op short circuits isn't necessarily dismissive or elitist. (Although I know a lot of people are regarding it)
All the community threads here on GAF for all the Souls games are friendly, open, welcoming, and helpful.
But don't let that stop you from expressing your moral superiority, I guess.
You get entirely too defensive when people have a differing opinion than you. I've noticed that in a ton of threads I see you comment in. I think you're awesome, but sheesh, lighten up some, Morrigan Stark.
While I don't doubt that there are always people who are open and welcoming and helpful, it gets god damn tiring to see nearly every souls topic devolve into the "experts" telling the "peasant noobs" to "git gud." I've been playing these games since Demon's Souls launched, and they're awesome, but it's a fair assessment that the community isn't all rainbows and sunshine (that goes for many communities, not just the Soulsborne one).
Not everyone is going to enjoy a game the same way as someone else, and that's fine. I'm just personally over the smug elitism I see in every Soulsborne thread. I usually don't comment in them, and instead lurk in the shadows, but it does get grating after a while.
Tarextherex
Banned
In 2 I summoned due to the NPC quests, I would have won away cause magic is op. The most difficult bosses you need to fight alone anyways, or get stronger if you summon a lot
In 1 never summoned. I lost to O&S even with Solaire but once I ran out of soft humanity I end up beating him alone
Spending hours stuck on the same boss is lame and summoning still doesn't make something easy enough for it to be "trivial". I say it's part of the game, you use it or you don't
In 1 never summoned. I lost to O&S even with Solaire but once I ran out of soft humanity I end up beating him alone
Spending hours stuck on the same boss is lame and summoning still doesn't make something easy enough for it to be "trivial". I say it's part of the game, you use it or you don't
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Dog turd of a thread/Opinion, I platinumed Bloodborne and Dark Souls alone, My friends werent into these games at all, Being as they couldn't get off Borderlands 2 and Destiny.
I told them we could all play co-op in these games by summoning, PvP, Invading etc.
Now they are addicted to DS3 and BB.
These games turned them from shooters towards action/RPG gamers.
It's called fun gaming with friends.
I told them we could all play co-op in these games by summoning, PvP, Invading etc.
Now they are addicted to DS3 and BB.
These games turned them from shooters towards action/RPG gamers.
It's called fun gaming with friends.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'd argue that the presence of summoning is something that shouldn't be taken for granted; in its absence, I could reasonably see bosses being made easier, where alternatively, summoning could be an excuse by the designers to increase the difficulty of the bosses, because there's an out for people who can't handle it.
Yeah that was an exaggeration, hopefully. But the community doesn't seem that friendly if you don't play or want to play in a same way that they do. You are instantly shunned, this isn't the first Souls related thread where I've seen comments like "don't give achievements to those people, they didn't experience what I did." Ofcourse it might feel unfair to paint the community on such a wide brush. But just like we can say there's sexism and racism problem in gaming community, there's elitism problem in Souls community. It might look like gentle ribbing to people inside, to outside it mostly looks dickish.
And like those "easy mode DS" threads have proved. Many of you care more about "sanctity" of the game, than about the unfortunate people who would love to experience these games themselves but just can't. "Watch it on Youtube", "play something else" they say.
Edit: See, we even have fucking "true gamers" thrown around here in this very thread.
TheSpoiler
Member
I actually hated playing with other people at first in the Souls games, but eventually I gave it a shot with Bloodborne and DS3, and fell in love with it. While I don't play online often (I'm a single player gamer at heart), it's been so much fun the few times me and my friends have been able to get together and tackle a boss in Bloodborne or Dark Souls. It's a good time. While I'll play solo 99.9% of the time (mainly due to liking to play at my own pace), it's fun to play with others too. I don't think it diminishes the game at all. I Platinumed Bloodborne solo myself (non-DLC), then I did co-op with friends for a boss or two in the DLC, but ended up beating that solo as well.
Games are meant to be enjoyed however you want to enjoy them.
Lol! I think that was satire, actually. It read like a parody post to me.