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[Azoor]

If the developers have added this option in the game, then it's a legitimate way to play the game. Let people play how they wanna play as long as they don't ruin it for others players.

End of the story.

 

[Fisty]

If you're playing a sport or you're playing a fighting game and the person you're playing with trash talks, are you going to stop playing and call them elitist? That's a hell of leap in assumptions to believe they're being dead serious.

Well besides the fact that joke threads aren't exactly allowed here...

If you're playing football and decide to kick a field goal on 4th and 17 instead of throw a pass for a 17 yards, and someone on the other team comes over and says "git gud scrub only a noob would kick a FG on that play" yeah I'm gonna tell him to get bent

 

[Despera]

On one hand beating bosses solo is the most gratifying aspect of the Souls series. Calling for help absolutely deprives you of that sense of satisfaction and accomplishment.

But on the other hand OP is being a jerk about it and is trying to shame players for utilizing one of the game's features. If you don't want to use it then just don't and go on your merry way.

Simply put not everyone is competitive or wants to be challenged. There are a lot of people who don't want to invest that much time and effort into a videogame. It's a fact of life you need to cope with OP, especially since it doesn't affect your enjoyment of the game in the slightest :/

 

[A Link to the Past]

Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"

They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?

"True, actual gamers"

Come on lmao

 

[Basketball]

summoning is the easy mode for souls games

there you go

 

[Mass Effect]

I played through the majority of Dark Sous 2 (PS4) with 2-3 friends summoned in and it was way more fun/hilarious than playing alone. We a lot of the bosses and it was great.

I regret nothing.

 

[Dio Brando]

a community so toxic that it evens tells people that using a mechanic from the game should make you feel bad, lol.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I actually hated playing with other people at first in the Souls games, but eventually I gave it a shot with Bloodborne and DS3, and fell in love with it. While I don't play online often (I'm a single player gamer at heart), it's been so much fun the few times me and my friends have been able to get together and tackle a boss in Bloodborne or Dark Souls. It's a good time. While I'll play solo 99.9% of the time (mainly due to liking to play at my own pace), it's fun to play with others too. I don't think it diminishes the game at all. I Platinumed Bloodborne solo myself (non-DLC), then I did co-op with friends for a boss or two in the DLC, but ended up beating that solo as well.

Games are meant to be enjoyed however you want to enjoy them.



Lol! I think that was satire, actually. It read like a parody post to me.

I just don't know anymore!

 

[ch4fx_]

Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"

They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?

I think you're misinterpreting the look they're giving you, you true gamer.

 

[legacyzero]

Can we change the title to "Does summoning in Souls games hurt the difficult boss experience?"

 

[Tecnniqe]

OP you're a disgrace to the soul community. A true fan would never ask Miyazaki to change his vision and masterpiece like this.

Miyazaki would be very disappointed in you.

You ROBBED Miyazaki dream OP!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You get entirely too defensive when people have a differing opinion than you. I've noticed that in a ton of threads I see you comment in. I think you're awesome, but sheesh, lighten up some, Morrigan Stark.

lol? Reading the ridiculously hostile and defensive replies in this thread, I'm pretty sure I'm not the one that needs to "lighten up". In fact, I'd say exactly that to the rest of your post.

 

[luulubuu]

Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"

They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?

Here, take your badge of honor

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Yeah I definitely have enough time in my life to grind out gameplay patterns and memorization for hours or days just to beat a boss and then gloat about how good I am at soloing them on my favorite internet forums. Like, comment, and subscribe to my 1337 skills.

Or I can just summon Soliare and any other of my sunboiz online, and drink Estus flasks in jolly cooperation while I bop villainy and evil and actually have fun.

My take too. Some of the bosses in DS2 were assholes and it's a long run back to your body lol.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I think there should be less discouraging people from cooping and more encouraging the devs to make cooperative play both compelling and challenging. I played most of DS1's DLC with my buddy cooping it blind together and it was an absolutely fantastic experience. We died countless times to Artorias, but devised ways to work together and make it work.

 

[Frodo]

With all due respect, OP: go fuck yourself with that pointless elitism.


Summoning is the best part of the Souls games, I'll continue to summon people to beat bosses and, most definitely, I'll continue to leave signs to be summoned (or ring the bell) close to fog boss doors. You should feel bad for trying to tell people how they should enjoy their games.

 

[Acerac]

I was having tons of fun watching a friend play through Dark Souls until he started summoning help for bosses. My interest in spectating him quickly waned, as did his interest in the game itself.

It was really disappointing, to say the least.

 

[Revolutionary]

Summoning other players/NPCs in Souls makes bosses trivial

True.

and you should feel bad

False.

Personally, I volunteer my services as a summon a few times so I can learn the boss tactics, and then go in solo. Feels like a nice middle ground, rather than beating my head against each boss over and over in a trial and error way.

 

[Freeman76]

Fuck me are you serious?

Praise GAF for the ignore function

 

[Tecnniqe]

Here, take your badge of honor

LIT

REKT

SAVAGED

RIPPED

FAM

 

[Mazzo3]

I've seen people fail to defeat bosses in coop plenty of times. Sometimes your summons die almost immediately and you're left alone with a boss with a buffed health. That awesome feeling when you beat a buffed boss that squashed your summons... Maybe you guys should try it sometime.

 

[Gxgear]

I'm a solo player, but have helped friends with bosses through summons. I don't have a problem with it at all, but you do rob yourself of the full experience- depending on the boss design.

 

[bender]

I usually summon or drop a summoning symbol because I like the cooperative experience. It has nothing to do with the difficulty level. Games are just more fun with more people.

 

[PandaShake]

I soloed dark souls, my first soul game and ornstein an Smaug fight was one of the best and most rewarding experiences I've had in my lifetime of gaming.

 

[Lorcain]

Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"

They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?

Nobody in real life respects us because we beat Bloodborne and all of the DS games with or without summoning. If I started a conversation with another dad while I was at my son's swimming practice and told him I beat DS3 3 times, twice on PC and once on PS4, and never summoned once, he would look at me like I was crazy, laugh and call me a fucking nerd, and then change the topic.

They're not badges of honor. Nobody gives a shit lol. Maybe if you have a circle of gaming friends, maybe they might care? But outside of that in real life with other grown ups? Nope. They don't care.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I've seen people fail to defeat bosses in coop plenty of times. Sometimes your summons die almost immediately and you're left alone with a boss with a buffed health. That awesome feeling when you beat a buffed boss that squashed your summons... Maybe you guys should try it sometime.

Yeah this happened to me during Knight Artorias. My friend died after like 30 seconds and I soloed him after that.

 

[Kurumi]

Here, take your badge of honor

I'm dying lol.

 

[Wagram]

I mean, I impose those rules on myself, but it's pretty douchey to impose them on everyone else. If they want to summon and co-op then why not?

 

[Chibot]

I feel about the same, though many more people can enjoy these games due to summoning. I think there should be a trophy for beating all bosses solo, as it usually is a much greater challenge.

 

[Azoor]

Here, take your badge of honor

Oh my God!

 

[myco666]

Wow, that thread backfire? Why is everyone taking the "you should feel bad line" so seriously? It's the gentlest of ribbing. Holy shit, gamers really are so easily triggered if Futurama references offends them so. xD

Is "Why even bother? The boss fights are arguably the best thing about the games and you choose to virtually skip them? Shame on you." Futurama reference too?

 

[7threst]

Fuck this OP. I feel fucking good summoning other players. It makes the games worth it for me. I like people, I like other gamers. Hate me. I feel good playing with other people. I feel good people helping me. I feel good helping other people. It's the soul in Souls games.

 

[UrbanRats]

By jumping into Souls with any approach, they've likely already ran into points where they should've "stopped playing" (the first of these is that the game doesn't tell you to pick an "Easy Mode" in the first place). And yet they didn't stop playing and maybe they ended up liking the game more than they would like most games (and the series itself has gone on to develop a reputation that may not have existed if fewer of those points of crisis existed) even though in the short term it caused them a bit of pain. Your logic here, weakly supported by both "it's just a videogame" (as opposed to the next videogame you'll eventually play after mindlessly breezing through this one instead of sticking with it?) and going for an increasing amount of extremes to represent time wasted (a few tries and hours, then days, perhaps next will be months and years), is short-sighted.

Maximizing your enjoyment of the videogame (and far beyond that: of all time you'll be spending playing any and all videogames in a meta sense) may involve taking those hits to your ego directly, a concept I don't think should be foreign to Souls players - bigger challenge, bigger satisfaction. Maybe working your way out of getting stuck will, after some delay, will be a better experience in retrospect than gliding your way through (and becoming increasingly accustomed to the idea that your frustration with the game's depth is merely an avoidable inconvenience you are putting on yourself). Frustration, which is apart of the experience, will always tell you it's time to quit, but you can't really know for sure if that's for the best. If it's the year 2034 and you still haven't beaten Ornstein and Smough, then yeah, reconsider. But since a lot of humans were capable of defeating O&S, and arguably even harder challenges of the series, solo... maybe you can too? You may end up losing more if you sell yourself short. This is especially true if the only option is to drop the game outright, if we move away from Souls and towards something with fewer easy ways out.

"Days" as in, some people only have very limited amount of hours to play in a day (say 2 or less) and so a boss that needs 6 hours of tries, could easily take "days", especially if you need time to get into the groove of things, every time.

I don't think i argued they should include a god mode in the game, for any player to just glide through it.
We're basically arguing over a balance of things, but the OP started in a confrontational tone, saying that summoning will rob you of the experience, when i actually think the other way around could be just as true.

Infact i'll say that the idea of extreme satisfaction after a big challenge, a lot of people talk about, i rarely get that feeling with hard videogames; when i spend 2 hours on a boss and finally beat it, what i usually feel is frustration (some built up, some because of the time investment), and a sense of broken immersion, as the game's setting faded out in favor of mechanics and patterns, which isn't a big deal in say, Super Mario, but i think Souls games ride on that element a lot.

With that in mind, maybe spending 2 or 3 hours trying to beat O&S will rob you of the experience you'd get if you had summoned and moved the game along, maintaining a better sense of pace and "flow" or however you want to call it.

For example this is what killed the ps2 SIREN games for me, their difficulty a lot of people loved, allegedly raising the tension and stakes, was the element that would eventually pull me out of the "atmosphere" every time i'd have to repeat a section for the 10th time, memorizing every pattern, and being forced to see the mechanics and the systems for what they were, inevitably (now) detached from whatever dressing up the game was supposed to have.

In Souls games, since i usually feel like the bigger improvement between the first and final run, has been in muscle reflex, and pattern memorization (say, how to successfully roll through a combo by learning the rhythm of attacks, or knowing what attack is coming by recognizing the wind up by a few frames) it doesn't really make me feel like i've accomplished all that much.

In this sense, i feel better when i find a cheesy way to get through a tough part of the level itself, at least that involves creativity.

But it's a balance, a personal one people should find for themselves, and summoning remains a great option to call it when you feel like the investment isn't worth the reward.

And hey, i stopped playing Haunting Ground for that very reason.
Having to run and hide every two seconds was a pain in the ass, and took me out of the atmosphere way too much, so i just dropped it.
Did i miss something? Of course i did, i didn't play a game that looked very interesting, but if i did drop it, it's because i wasn't enjoying it in the first place, nobody forced me to.

 

[Rush_Khan]

Worst thread ever? Lots of people co-op and sometimes it makes the boss harder (since they have even more health).

 

[Quonny]

Caring how other people play a game that has no impact on you LUL

 

[Murkas]

OP worked us all into a shoot.

 

[Neoweee]

Worst thread ever? Lots of people co-op and sometimes it makes the boss harder (since they have even more health).

Very, very, very rarely does it actually make it harder, though. It's pretty much a crapshoot, and except for a few cases it feels like a giant unintended fluke.

Souls needs more bosses like Elana, who summons more skeletons based on the number of phantoms the host has with them.

 

[Shifty]

I never summoned once in Bloodborne, but Dark Souls 3? More or less every boss after Bordt.

Both were great experiences for their own reasons.

 

[Bronetta]

Summoning in Souls is a lot like paying hookers. Instead of putting in the time and effort to get laid yourself, you just have to hire a professional to come and take care of it for you.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

1. It's an option in the game.
2. It's meant to be used by those who need/want to.
3. People use it because it makes the game more fun for them.
4. End of story.

Seriously, I suppose it would be even more satisfying of an experience if I beat all the bosses at SL1 and naked? Armor and weapons will deduct from your sense of accomplishment!!!

 

[oSoLucky]

If you weren't struggling through DeS on Day 1 and involved on the DeS PvP boards back when they were active(or even alive) then you haven't been playing these games as long as me and can't tell me what to do!

I get what you're going for OP, but not everyone gets the same sense of accomplishment from bosses to begin with, or even cares about doing it the "right" way at all. I summoned through most bosses in DkS2 SotFS because guess what? I Platinumed DeS, DkS(I even 100% it on 360 and PC too, in addition to somewhere over 400 hours of PvP/making alts), Bloodborne, and when I get around to it, SotFS. I'm taking a break because I like to keep it at once per year or so for the games. I'm going to get DkS3 sometime this Fall probably. I like seeing the worlds at this point, and don't give a single shit about surmounting some "hard"(normally just require memorizing attack strings though there are exceptions) boss, so I summon away with no problem. I got extremely frustrated on Orphan of Kos, Bloodletting Beast and Pthumerian Descendant, to where I almost stopped(especially OoK and BLB aka camera boss). When I beat them. there wasn't some huge sense of accomplishment, that probably long since passed in these games. Downing MMO raid bosses is usually the only thing that makes me feel that way. I also have gotten called "carebear" or something similar a bunch for preferring to play in a way that I don't have to deal with the tedium of invasions. I'm also 100% undefeated in DkS2 and BB PvP. I can't vouch for how good the invaders are, but there were a bunch trying to pick on me in random areas(and before I knew about the bells in Nightmare Frontier).

I think more people should realize that not everyone gives a shit about the "accomplishment" or gets some high from getting through the games. Most of it is tedium forced by design.

 

[Version 3.0]

It makes bosses trivial if you're good enough to beat them alone. My friend used to spend a lot of time being summoned by others, and even though he was a total pro at the game, he'd get bumped out when the host died at least half the time.

As for me, yes, I agree, summoning is surrender. But that's my personal policy. I'm not going to tell other people to stop having fun.

 

[hamsjams]

The host has a full squad of summons, we enter the arena and the other summons immediately get nuked. The host backs up like "Oh shit no" and then I step up to the plate and take that boss on by myself like a pro, assuredly impressing the host and any summons still alive to the very core of their being. Then the boss is destroyed and I swagger away like a champ while the host makes grateful gestures.

I've beaten Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 and Bloodborne completely solo for the first run. On my second run, I help other people beat the game. Without summoning, I couldn't experience one of the best things about "getting good": showing off in front of other players.

But really, let people do what they want. It's better for everyone is people summon their way through the game as opposed to just quitting. Plus, summoning builds community and opens the potential for challenges that are specifically designed to be done multiplayer.

 

[7threst]

Summoning in Souls is a lot like paying hookers. Instead of putting in the time and effort to get laid yourself, you just have to hire a professional to come and take care of it for you.

No.

1. It's an option in the game.
2. It's meant to be used by those who need/want to.
3. People use it because it makes the game more fun for them.
4. End of story.

Seriously, I suppose it would be even more satisfying of an experience if I beat all the bosses at SL1 and naked? Armor and weapons will deduct from your sense of accomplishment!!!

This.

 

[Chris R]

I only did it for one boss so far in DS and DS2.

The snow tiger boss in DS2's DLC... I was having so much hit box trouble with that thing. Pissed me off so fucking much lol. I was really ready to be done with the game at that point, having killed the main game final boss already so I just summoned them to get on with it.

 

[Jigorath]

I was able to solo every boss in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne. Had to summon a handful of times for Dark Souls 1 and 2. Though I'm now going through Scholar of the First Sin and I'm gonna see if I can get through every boss without resorting to summoning or magic. I have the resolve this time.

 

[Rookhelm]

You're not a true gamer unless you summon the max number of players, enter the boss room, and then dismiss your companions, leaving you to fight a harder version of the boss. That's the true way to play...anything less is scrub tier.

 

[Chorazin]

Getting help through a summon is like a UFC fighter calling their friend in for a two on on beatdown during a cage match. Wheres the glory? People arent going to respect you for a two on one beatdown in a cage, just like how people wont respect you beating the souls games with any help. When I tell people I beat the souls games 100% solo no help I can see in their eyes that they think "wow this guy knows his shit". Conversely I have a friend who has beaten every souls game with tons of help and it always makes me cringe when hes with me and adds "Ive beaten them too!"

They should be hard, they are badges of honor for true, actual gamers that really want challenge and real life accomplishments. Id prefer trophies being locked out or maybe some box that appears once you summon going "easy mode unlocked". Maybe include a cheat mode with summons and modifiers like double health and a pause button?

This is a joke right? Like, a parody post? How many people do you tell IRL that you've beaten Dark Souls to see some respect in their eyes?

 

[ch4fx_]

Playing Bloodborne in co-op is better than not playing Bloodborne at all.

 

[Vico]

I'm still stuck in the Dark Souls 2's dlc (tried two DLCs, I'm failing in both) even though I summon NPCs. Does that mean I suck?