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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

N

Neptonic

Member
My friend and I have decided that we are going to get gud at a "real" fighting game. All we play is smash, and we're good at that, but we want to try something more technical. We have a copy of Capcom vs SNK 2 for the gamecube. Any tips would be appreciated.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
I use a Logitech gamepad (f510)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuvSZdOBfi4

I notice that in order to do right shoryuken, it just suffices to do this motion. Pretty easy.

pad1r3yne.jpg


But left shoryuken is a completely different matter. This motion does not work.
Instead I have to do this, which is much more lengthy and frustrating.

pad2qoxpw.jpg


Dreamcast pad on the other hand is closer to the first motion in either side. There the difficulty lies that the left side of dpad is exposed due to the grip angle.So you have to be precise regarding pressure.

Do Dpads in general have any miscrepancies between left and right or is it just Logitech?
This makes playing on the left side a nightmare, in case I dont want to use the arcade stick or keyboard.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Hell yes!

Never really participated in this thread as much as I wanted to for Street Fighter, hope to rectify that with Tekken 7.

Really excited to get my hands on Claudio, with Katarina or Kazumi as a secondary.
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
Happy to help with any Tekken related questions. I'm kinda ass but I do play in tournaments, and I've been about this series a loooong time.
 
D

Danielsan

Member
Will definitely be picking up Tekken 7 as soon as it comes out (either on PS4, PC or both). I'm a total fighting game scrub, and doubt I'll ever get any better. I just don't have the dedication required. That said. I did pick up a cheap used Xbox360 TE fightstick yesterday.
I've hooked it up to my PC and picked up Ultra Street Fighter IV on steam at the same time. Hopefully with a bit of practice I can at least get to the same level of play that I have on a controller. Should be fun to learn a new controller at least.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
From the Reddit thread, the most useful info:

What should I focus on? / Where do start?
This is an example of steps that you can use to get better at Tekken.

1. Play around with each character until you find the one that you want to play with.
2. (A part of step 1) check your character’s movelist so that you know what kind of moves they have.
3. Learn a bit about advanced movement (korean backdash cancelling) and sidestepping so that you have some idea of what you can practice when you are doing all the other steps.
4. Read up on why you are using pokes/punishers/launchers and such in this game.
5. Look up what your character's pokes, punishers, while standing punishers and other good moves are. You can write them down and try to memorize them as you are playing.
6. Look up how the combo system works.
7. Learn your character's launchers and practice basic combos.
8. Learn the basics of frame data, just so you know what it is.
9. Look up how wall-carrying and wall-combos work.
10. Practice more advanced combos as well as wall-combos.
11. Practice korean backdash cancelling all day long until you get it right.
12. When you have learned all of this and gotten comfy in your gameplay, you could start with researching about how to defend against different character such as how to defend/dodge certain popular moves by that character since that will make playing against them a lot easier.
Click to expand...

Aris' Guide on Movement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJEJ8PJXoaM

Aris Guide on Situation Knowledge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF7LA-sS3h4

Aris Guide on Frames:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35sf8A9Wnv0

Character guide for those who are new:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yqgxbES6su4clpQou2hzlZN40rpPBtwmMRKWfexbj3g/edit

Korean Backdash Tutorials:

What is Korean backdash cancel?
Korean backdash cancelling is a technique that is used to move away from your opponent or just to create some space between you. It is often used to make the opponent’s attack whiff (miss right in front of you) so that you can get a combo or a big hit on them. So how does this work? Well in Tekken you can cancel every movement action into another move action and that is basically what this is. Your first “b, b” is a regular backdash. When this is happening, you input “d/b” to cancel the recovery of the backdash and then you perform a “b” again to dash. This will eliminate the “standing still” time from when you are only doing regular backashes.

The notation for this is: b, b, d/b, n, b, d/b, n, b, d/b...
Here is a link that shows of how the korean player JDCR demonstrates his movement techniques. If you don't feel the need to know everything right now you could just read about the kbdc part.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/61rrmd/jdcr_movement_techniques_demonstration/dfh373g/

Here are 3 videos that are pretty good tutorials/in-depth look on the kdbc:
By Aris from AvoidingThePuddle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLp3Y0PdV94
By Bum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrR-6vk1UXw
By TheMainManSWE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWa4AU5G5s8

Here is a good structure/tip to think about while learning to kbdc.
Submitted by MCPtz:
For learning Korean Back Dash, I like to emphasize blocking.
b~B is the basic back dash.
Hold down B to block. At any point if they attack with a mid or high, you'll block during the back dash animation as long you hold B to block.
b~B. Hold it down and see how long it takes to complete a back dash.
b~B, D/B to cancel the back dash into low block. If you cancelled it too quickly, you wouldn't move very far. If you cancelled it after too long, you'll be moving slowly (compared to the pros at least). Watch the pro videos to get a feel for how long they tend to back dash.
Do two back dashes by cancelling the first one and then going into the second one, make sure to hold B to block so you don't get hit:
b~B, d/b,n,B
Do three back dashes:
b~B, d/b,n,B, d/b,n,B
and so on

But there is also a budget version: b, b, n, SS (u or d), b, b n, SS… This is an easier version and it works kind of like the korean backdash cancel. But instead of doing a “d/b” you cancel each backdash with a sidestep instead.

Explained by theSwiftDagger:
The downside to doing the "budget" version is that it is more unsafe than the more difficult version.
The sidestep is just a raw up or down input meaning that if you get hit by a mid or a low then you will take damage instead of blocking.
In the Korean backdash version there is b,d/b,b so basically for the frame that you cancel into d/b you will at least still be blocking low.

Note: Submitted by Abev97: The "reverse wavedash" method does not work for any characters that has a backsway (Nina, Paul, Bryan etc.) so do not bother with it if you are playing one of those characters.
Click to expand...

What am I getting myself into?
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
DunpealD said:
A PhD in Tekken.
Click to expand...

Can't wait for the first day of class.

petran79 said:
I use a Logitech gamepad (f510)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuvSZdOBfi4

I notice that in order to do right shoryuken, it just suffices to do this motion. Pretty easy.

pad1r3yne.jpg


But left shoryuken is a completely different matter. This motion does not work.
Instead I have to do this, which is much more lengthy and frustrating.

pad2qoxpw.jpg


Dreamcast pad on the other hand is closer to the first motion in either side. There the difficulty lies that the left side of dpad is exposed due to the grip angle.So you have to be precise regarding pressure.

Do Dpads in general have any miscrepancies between left and right or is it just Logitech?
This makes playing on the left side a nightmare, in case I dont want to use the arcade stick or keyboard.
Click to expand...

My suggestion: get a Hori six button pad, Saturn pad, or go stick.
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
T7 is a lot friendlier to new players than earlier Tekkens, partially because of the oki and backwalk changes.

Normal backwalk is A LOT faster and better than previously, and is actually usable in this game. KBD is still strong and useful to learn and you probably should get to it at some point, but don't beat yourself up about it too much as a new player.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Yeah I noticed that Katarina has some good speed on her back walk for spacing opportunities and the normals she goes for are standard pokes. I've looked up her basic combos. Just need to practice em and whiff punishing in training mode when I get the game. Uh, question. In Tekken are normals called normals? Because they all seem like normals.

My plan of action is to go through story mode first thing to get used to the fighting system. Then stay in training mode a few days before heading online. I'll be playing with y'all in the mean time tho. I think I want to eventually move up to Nina but she's too advanced it seems.

Where do I find what the best pokes are? I know what they are from watching high level Tekken but I don't know what to dial in.

HYPE.

Katarina vids:

Basic combo - https://youtu.be/B9amdUve5XY

Good set featuring Knee as Katarina (great to learn from) - https://youtu.be/njVFvWA9N80

Who's getting Mahvel?

SquirrelSoup said:
T7 is a lot friendlier to new players than earlier Tekkens, partially because of the oki and backwalk changes.

Normal backwalk is A LOT faster and better than previously, and is actually usable in this game. KBD is still strong and useful to learn and you probably should get to it at some point, but don't beat yourself up about it too much as a new player.
Click to expand...

What was Tekken oki like before 7 tho? I read Xiaoyu got less tools because the oki has been nerfed. I remember her cartwheels being great to use during wakeup back in the day.
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
What was Tekken oki like before 7 tho? I read Xiaoyu got less tools because the oki has been nerfed. I remember her cartwheels being great to use during wakeup back in the day.
Click to expand...

Before, doing a backroll was REALLY dangerous. You'd get floated, take a bunch of damage, get carried to the wall, -and- then be in the same position again. So you'd often stay down or sideroll, take the hit, and then you might get mixed up again too.

When you're on the ground in T7 and you hold back (as your instincts would advise, right? ), you do this sort of.. scoot backward? It gets you to your feet pretty safely and pretty quickly. It's not perfect or anything but it's a lot better than before.

Spring kicks from the ground are a lot better too so if you want to gamble on that to get them off you it's not as stacked against the downed player.
 
D

Doomshine

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Uh, question. In Tekken are normals called normals? Because they all seem like normals.
Click to expand...
Not really, but you hear people coming from 2d games use it a lot. It's fine though, we know what you mean.

Cindi Mayweather said:
What was Tekken oki like before 7 tho? I read Xiaoyu got less tools because the oki has been nerfed. I remember her cartwheels being great to use during wakeup back in the day.
Click to expand...
In past Tekkens you could get floated for a full combo by getting up the wrong way, so a lot of times beginners would die without even getting off the ground.
 
D

Danielsan

Member
SquirrelSoup said:
Before, doing a backroll was REALLY dangerous. You'd get floated, take a bunch of damage, get carried to the wall, -and- then be in the same position again. So you'd often stay down or sideroll, take the hit, and then you might get mixed up again too.

When you're on the ground in T7 and you hold back (as your instincts would advise, right? ), you do this sort of.. scoot backward? It gets you to your feet pretty safely and pretty quickly. It's not perfect or anything but it's a lot better than before.

Spring kicks from the ground are a lot better too so if you want to gamble on that to get them off you it's not as stacked against the downed player.
Click to expand...
This is such a relief to read. I've been playing a bit of Tekken 6 lately and got steamrolled a couple of times due to being unable to get up safely out of a combo / string.
 
Spuck-uk

Spuck-uk

Banned
Doomshine said:
Not really, but you hear people coming from 2d games use it a lot. It's fine though, we know what you mean.


In past Tekkens you could get floated for a full combo by getting up the wrong way, so a lot of times beginners would die without even getting off the ground.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there were setups to float you from the ground if you tech rolled, and OTHER setups that could be used to float if you didn't.. Not getting off the ground for a round was entirely possible.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
Another thing to note with Tekken is that you can apply what you learn with one character and use that for the rest the cast since most character tools work the same. So Law's sweep on block pretty much works like Bryan's or Lili's.


It takes a huge chunk out of learning the entire cast and it's something I'll go over in a video using SF to explain Tekken.
 
N

NipplesAndToes23

Member
MikeBreezy92 said:
Another thing to note with Tekken is that you can apply what you learn with one character and use that for the rest the cast since most character tools work the same. So Law's sweep on block pretty much works like Bryan's or Lili's.


It takes a huge chunk out of learning the entire cast and it's something I'll go over in a video using SF to explain Tekken.
Click to expand...

Listen to him he knows what he's talking about. After that the only character specific things I feel like you have to know are the juggles. There might be some character specific punishes, but I haven't played in a while.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
The only thing I actively study are Characters Actual unique quirks nowadays since there's no point in looking at the entire command list. Stuff like their core moves, stances and etc.
 
boybrushdRED

boybrushdRED

Member
Is it just me, or does SF3 Third Strike have a very strict timing? Having a very hard time pulling off combos, cancels, and parries. Like Ken's target combo into a shoryuken or a super. In USF4, I'm able to pull that one off more consistently.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
boybrushdRED said:
Is it just me, or does SF3 Third Strike have a very strict timing? Having a very hard time pulling off combos, cancels, and parries. Like Ken's target combo into a shoryuken or a super. In USF4, I'm able to pull that one off more consistently.
Click to expand...

It's not just you links were made generally easier in SF4
 
S

sasuke_91

Member
NipplesAndToes23 said:
Yeah, you're not going to use the whole movelist. Almost everyone has a bunch of moves that are too slow or unsafe.
Click to expand...

Every move can be of use at some point in time, but yes, it's a lot easier to remember 20-30 useful moves than 100 for the entire movelist.

I'm also available if anyone has questions. Not good at teaching, but I can try learning :p
I will use Hwoarang, Steve, Ling Xiaoyu and Shaheen. So hyped for next week!
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
MikeBreezy92 said:
Another thing to note with Tekken is that you can apply what you learn with one character and use that for the rest the cast since most character tools work the same. So Law's sweep on block pretty much works like Bryan's or Lili's.


It takes a huge chunk out of learning the entire cast and it's something I'll go over in a video using SF to explain Tekken.
Click to expand...

Post your videos where you use SF to explain Tekken again.

Also how do I figure out what moves to use for Katarina?
 
N

NipplesAndToes23

Member
sasuke_91 said:
Every move can be of use at some point in time, but yes, it's a lot easier to remember 20-30 useful moves than 100 for the entire movelist.

I'm also available if anyone has questions. Not good at teaching, but I can try learning :p
I will use Hwoarang, Steve, Ling Xiaoyu and Shaheen. So hyped for next week!
Click to expand...

Tell me in what situation is Miguel's unblockable useful? Using that shit is asking to be hit. Or like Alisa's Docking Bay? Like most of the moves are too impractical to use regularly. Like why would you use Alisa's triangle punch during a boot when the 2,1, can't be ducked and you can use the the left kick version to keep the opponent guessing. At least the right kick one has the chance of launching the opponent so it's more of a risk vs reward.
 
A

AAK

Member
NipplesAndToes23 said:
Tell me in what situation is Miguel's unblockable useful? Using that shit is asking to be hit. Or like Alisa's Docking Bay? Like most of the moves are too impractical to use regularly. Like why would you use Alisa's triangle punch during a boot when the 2,1, can't be ducked and you can use the the left kick version to keep the opponent guessing. At least the right kick one has the chance of launching the opponent so it's more of a risk vs reward.
Click to expand...

He never claimed you have to use every move regularly.

sasuke_91 said:
Every move can be of use at some point in time
Click to expand...

"At some point in time" != "regularly"
 
A

AAK

Member
I don't play nor really have a clue what moves you're talking about above so I can't comment.

But feel free to ask about a move that Julia, Hwoarang, or Raven have and I'll gladly give you situations for them.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
So I remember Tekken frames being different from SF frames? And someone said that Tekken has frame data of moves in the practice mode? I'm trying to find footage of practice mode with move frame data shown so I can see what it looks like when testing out moves?
 
A

AAK

Member
No, there is no frame data inside Tekken's practice mode. You have to depend on resources like rbnorway.org, there's a frame data bot on the TekkenGAF discord that you can use also which is extremely helpful. The negative is that because all of this is maintained by the fans, there are instances of errors at times. It's always best to confirm what you research yourself in practice mode.

I don't know about Tekken 7, but TTT2's practice mode would showcase a "PUNISH" indicator if you successfully punished an unsafe move correctly.

Another important factor to consider is that the frame data doesn't mention anything about pushback. So there are moves like Bob's d+2,1,2,2 which are extremely negative on block but have a lot of pushback making it relatively hard to punish. Hence why it's best to do your own research on practice mode. You retain the knowledge better that way as well.
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
Cindi Mayweather said:
Can't wait for the first day of class.

My suggestion: get a Hori six button pad, Saturn pad, or go stick.
Click to expand...

It is a hardware issue with Logitech pads in general. Plugged an old Saitek p220 6 button pad and it works flawlessly.

Cindi Mayweather said:
So I remember Tekken frames being different from SF frames? And someone said that Tekken has frame data of moves in the practice mode? I'm trying to find footage of practice mode with move frame data shown so I can see what it looks like when testing out moves?
Click to expand...

On PC version someone will make a frame data tool probably.
 
A

AAK

Member
Virtua Fighter 5 and Dead or Alive 5 have frame data in their practice mode.

Soul Calibur and Tekken don't.
 
J

J-Tier

Member
I used to be quite good at fighting games, MVC2 era, also played Pocket Fighter very well.

I've regressed though, it sucks. I have fundamentals there to a degree, i.e. blocking and spacing, but when it comes to doing any combo beyond four different inputs or maximizing damage and managing resources, I start to get a headache.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
2ya9tZ8.gif


Even I cannot defend SFV anymore. One day I will get to Gold rank tho and I will gloat about it in this thread but I'm not sure I could ever forgive it for what it has done to our friend FACE.
 
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