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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

I might be on Street Fighter V tonight after midnight12am Eastern.

PSN and CFN is MrDaBucket.

I'm very new, but trying to get better, as the thread title says.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
I'll look for you tonight! I'm in PST, so hopefully it won't be too late. What's your CFN?

markwaters, but I'll be in the Discord when I get home too! It's a chat/VOIP client: https://discordapp.com/

You can either download the app itself or use it from your browser. Definitely join the FightingGAF Discord -- quote Cindi's post instructing you to quote it for the link!
 

Drahcir

Member
markwaters, but I'll be in the Discord when I get home too! It's a chat/VOIP client: https://discordapp.com/

You can either download the app itself or use it from your browser. Definitely join the FightingGAF Discord -- quote Cindi's post instructing you to quote it for the link!

I'm in the Discord! Woo! Alright, markwaters, get ready to body me tonight. That sounded all kinds of wrong.
 

Zissou

Member
On a lot of pro streams and general FG talk, people often mention frame data of a particular move or character but that kind of talk generally goes in one ear and out the other to me. I'm not a pro player, so all I can see is whether my opponent is attacking with light, medium, heavy, or special attacks. I'd rather not have to learn the plus or minuses of each attack. But do I absolutely need to know frame data to just have fun and without constantly losing?

A few rules of thumb cover vast majority of moves:

-Moves with very short range (obviously intended to be used close) are plus on block. It's risky to press buttons after blocking these.

-Longer range moves for poking from afar are usually (a little) minus on block. You can often press a button after blocking one.

-Sweeps (crouch heavy kick) are punishable on block- you can hit your opponent for free after blocking one.

-Anything with invincibility is punishable.

 

markwaters

Neo Member
Solid fight with Mark.

He's transitioning to Ibuki nicely.

http://youtu.be/85A0dhvyLfs

Thanks for the games! I am still wrapping my mind around some of Ibuki's new tools in this game and have a lot of muscle memory from SF4 to deprogram! I also realize that Ibuki's weaknesses in neutral shine a very bright light on my own weaknesses in SFV in general. I've been playing Bison up until this point so I'm able to get away with a lot of nonsense because of his good normals -- not so much with Ibuki! It's going to help me learn quite a bit. The few games we played were very shaky for me execution-wise (those dropped overhead links, my EX kunai followups into nothing, woof!), but I'll iron that stuff out and focus on having a cleaner approach. The matches I played with your Birdie friend especially exposed my weak neutral; I felt helpless!

One of the biggest things I've noticed about your game is that you tend to end your strings and pressure with the unsafe versions of bolt charge; when they hit, you squeeze out that extra damage and look smart as hell, but when they don't, you can get punished. When you're linking st.lp, for example, only LP bolt charge works, but I saw you go for MP and EX a few times only to have it get blocked and punished. You gotta work on proper confirms depending on what you've thrown out to ensure you stay safe and still get damage/pressure.

One thing I'd suggest incorporating into your game is, when you're very close to the opponent, using st.LK as a frame trap: it's got 4f startup and is +3 on block and will go into st.MP on counter-hit, and if st.LK gets blocked but st.MP counter-hits, you can get a cr.MP and end with MP bolt charge. Once they're blocking, you can command grab after a block st.LK and up close even HK command grab doesn't whiff, so it's a decent tick throw situation as well as a frame trap.

Other than that, I think your use fireballs to keep yourself out of pressure is an interesting tactic, and I think that's something you can build from as other parts of your game fall into place. I think your use st.HK is very good too, and you don't do it too much as to telegraph it. You should work on confirming the crush counter into all of the followups. Easier said than done, I know, but it'll help. You also tend to use volty line sparingly and at decent spacing too. You were stuffing my overheads with jab and even HP bolt charge a lot by the end too. You adapt and make reads pretty decently, you just have to get your punishes and timing to go along with that!
 
I got demolished in ranked afterwards. The Ibuki's I played were all pretty solid. Very annoying to fight as Laura. I have a Necalli fight I want to upload. It's such a ridiculous fight and I have no idea wtf except "fuck Necalli." Boxer from where I'm sitting, the matchup goes in Laura's favor.

Good suggestions. I have no idea what to suggest for you Ibuki because her V rendition is pretty new to me.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
I got demolished in ranked afterwards. The Ibuki's I played were all pretty solid. Very annoying to fight as Laura. I have a Necalli fight I want to upload. It's such a ridiculous fight and I have no idea wtf except "fuck Necalli." Boxer from where I'm sitting, the matchup goes in Laura's favor.

Good suggestions. I have no idea what to suggest for you Ibuki because her V rendition is pretty new to me.

Also someone please introduce Ibuki to Sean already so she stop hounding Laura about her brother i swear to gawd.

No worries! I see a lot I can work on from just playing matches because I have a lot of weaknesses and shortcomings with her at the moment; once you get more familiar with the matchup and I have a more solid game plan, it'll be easier to have a discussion about the match!

Also, yeah, Ibuki thirsty AF. It's ridiculous.
 
No worries! I see a lot I can work on from just playing matches because I have a lot of weaknesses and shortcomings with her at the moment; once you get more familiar with the matchup and I have a more solid game plan, it'll be easier to have a discussion about the match!

Also, yeah, Ibuki thirsty AF. It's ridiculous.

I'm still getting the rust off. Haven't played regularly in months. I should head to training next time and practice confirms.

I'll be on the lookout for good Ibuki guides.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Well, how do you feel during games now? Are you noticing more things you should/could be doing but aren't? That's the biggest sign of improvement at the beginner and intermediate level. I think last time we spoke and played a couple of games, you likened SF fundamentals to "differential calculus" and said you couldn't make sense of them. Do you feel differently now?

The things I think you need to work on remain relatively the same: Refining your approach and pressure so that it's safe and consistent but still threatening, and capitalizing on your advantages (hit confirms, punishing, etc).

You look like you've got better handle on ranges in regard to neutral, but you still throw out unsafe moves in hopes of catching them out (mid range tenkos with Karin, point blank volty line overhead with Laura among other things).

You've got to get comfortable pressuring your opponents without taking unsafe risks and betting your health bar. Karin and Laura don't have the health to risk, and they have pressure tools that advance them forward and keep you safe on block that you don't use very much: Karin has orochi, the shoulder move, which you can use instead of tenko without confirming and worrying about getting punished, and Lauren has LP bolt charge, which you can be cancelling from cr.MK instead of volty line. Volty line is great if you space it out, but at close range, it's very punishable on block.

Overall, at this point, it's less about how you're playing the game and more about how you're thinking about it. Consistency comes with practice and if you play a lot, you'll get there no matter what, but it goes a lot faster once you start to make sense of what you should be doing.

Some of the fundimentals still feel like differential calculus but I think main issue with me breaking out of some of them is just reluctance to try some things and execution also still holding me back at times.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
Some of the fundimentals still feel like differential calculus but I think main issue with me breaking out of some of them is just reluctance to try some things and execution also still holding me back at times.

It sounds like you're getting there, then! Are there any specific things that you're still struggling with conceptually? Maybe we can help!
 

Ardenyal

Member
Played some casual matches after a while not having played. Nice to see I at least haven't regressed.

One thing I still struggle with is when to use Cammys cannon strike. Without EX or V-trigger the move seems almost too risky to use :F
 

markwaters

Neo Member
Found a silver Ibuki in endless and I think we are the same level. He's more offensive and I'm more defensive and I think we have solid matches that force me to grow and practice reads, corner carry, oki.

Going to send him a friend request.

http://youtu.be/mBvDsqmGnjY

Gonna do a quick analysis -- I'm noticing a lot of rollback in the video, so take this with a grain of salt because I understand it's real hard to do a lot of things when there's lag:

WTF happened at 0:43? Can you cancel slide or did it roll back their slide? That was super weird.

At 1:02, you tried to punish the target combo; I believe it's -5, so cr. MP (5f) will punish rather than cr. HP (7f). Ibuki can end the TC with LK (-1 or -2? I forget but safe at disadvantage) instead though, so be careful and end with LP bolt charge if you're not sure of the punish.

At 1:09, you hit the crossup and go into cr. LP, st. LP -- you miss this one a lot, you gotta do the LP bolt charge cancel faster, but you can also get a harder hitting combo off of an MP or cr. HP after a crossup.

This person jumps in a lot: st. LP, st. MP, st. MK (not sure why but it anti-airs), or HP bolt charge that nonsense. You can save your V-Reversals for other things if you can AA them clean. If you confirm a normal anti-air, you can side switch with a dash or v-skill dash for some mixup as well. Mind the corner if you do this tho! It might not be worth it if you'll corner yourself.

At 1:51, nice anti-air.

From 3:15 to about 3:40, nice pressure. You have a good handle on this player. Press some safe buttons, wait for their reaction and respond. That's exactly what you should be doing; their gameplay is a little unrefined but they're looking for the same thing out of you and you're never giving it to them.

At 3:46, was that a read? If so, DOWNLOADED. Your anti-airs get better as this set goes on, but don't be afraid to check jump-ins at the start of a set with fast normals (st. LP and st. MP are my Laura go-tos). If you have a lot of time to react or have the read, like in this instance, HP bolt charge is great.

At 4:03, you open the round with EX thunder clap; I'd just use HP clap in this situation because the spacing at round start will still give you advantage/coverage even if they dash or jump in. EX is good for point blank because it's safer in pressure situations, (-5 for normal versions, +18!!! for EX point blank).

At 4:15, if you quickrise Ibuki's forward throw, there's nothing real after it at midscreen. All of the setups involve you pressing something or being in the corner; you can probably even jab or dash out of the crossup. There's some gross stuff if you don't quickrise though.

At 4:34, they back up and try to get you to go nuts for the chase down, and you don't bite and just walk them to the corner. Love it. Don't ever play their game if you don't have to.

Overall, I think you are better than this player by pretty significant margin even if the results of the games don't show that. You lose out in scrambles and sometimes don't capitalize on advantages, but you handle neutral more competently and have way more control over the match. You would have dominated if your anti-air game started sooner. They have a lot to work on too, so there's definitely a lot you can teach each other! Good set.
 
If I'm standing there after a missed jab often it means:

1. I fucked up my space with the jab and forget its max distance. Standing within a characters space, usually a jab does two hits max distance. lk is much better and I'm starting to using it more.

or

2. I tried to lp bolt and I fucked up the movement because of adrenaline.

Anyways, with EVO this week this marks me playing FGs seriously for a year now. My progress has stalled because of real life, but I'm satisfied with where I'm at in fundamentals now. I'm getting there.

And yes, those are reads. I have no idea how I'm doing it, but I'm starting to download people. It feels good.
 

Vic_Bast

Member
I'm able to do Ken's critical art almost every time on the right side using my stick, but I can't do it on the left side. Any tips?
 
I'm able to do Ken's critical art almost every time on the right side using my stick, but I can't do it on the left side. Any tips?

Do it on the side you're weak at. Assign a button to reset training room and do that CA on the left side over and over. When you do it, press reset button.
 

Drahcir

Member
And yes, those are reads. I have no idea how I'm doing it, but I'm starting to download people. It feels good.

How do you do this? :( I always seem to be telegraphing what I want to do that my opponents are able to sniff out all the time. I'm sure they also likely know the match up. It's not much fun when I can't even push a button without them doing it first and combo me to kingdom come. Why do I keep playing this game? ;_;
 
How do you do this? :( I always seem to be telegraphing what I want to do that my opponents are able to sniff out all the time. I'm sure they also likely know the match up. It's not much fun when I can't even push a button without them doing it first and combo me to kingdom come. Why do I keep playing this game? ;_;

If you watch my video sometimes I misjudge. I'll do a HP bolt and get nothing but air.

I just go with feeling. Sometimes I play with nothing but pure heart. My head thinks they may do something, and while it may be unsafe, I go for it anyways. Hardly Ume-shoryu but notice habits and take advantage of it. The heart factor comes in when you notice the pattern and you hit their pattern to a tee and take advantage. That's all I did to download that dude jump. Also notice that when people jump, there's a dust animation under the feet. When playing someone who jumps a lot, I start to look for that. When I see it, I go for the kill if the angle is right. Sometimes it's pure heart, sometimes it's pure reaction. Sometimes a mix of both.

It's also helpful to push them into that situation. I pushed him into the corner and knew he was going to jump. I misjudged once but I refused to let him out of that corner. If you know they're going to jump and you've pushed them into that situation, look for it. When you see it, grab it.

I have no idea if this has any actual basis in real strategy or if pro players do this. I'm just explaining my reasoning.
 

Drahcir

Member
If you watch my video sometimes I misjudge. I'll do a HP bolt and get nothing but air.

I just go with feeling. Sometimes I play with nothing but pure heart. My head thinks they may do something, and while it may be unsafe, I go for it anyways. Hardly Ume-shoryu but notice habits and take advantage of it. The heart factor comes in when you notice the pattern and you hit their pattern to a tee and take advantage. That's all I did to download that dude jump. Also notice that when people jump, there's a dust animation under the feet. When playing someone who jumps a lot, I start to look for that. When I see it, I go for the kill if the angle is right. Sometimes it's pure heart, sometimes it's pure reaction. Sometimes a mix of both.

It's also helpful to push them into that situation. I pushed him into the corner and knew he was going to jump. I misjudged once but I refused to let him out of that corner. If you know they're going to jump and you've pushed them into that situation, look for it. When you see it, grab it.

I have no idea if this has any actual basis in real strategy or if pro players do this. I'm just explaining my reasoning.

No, that helps a lot actually! Because I'll also do moves that I clearly know is unsafe and punishable but I do it anyway. I sometimes do them when I don't even know if I have the V-trigger to get out of it. I guess it just seems like I never get away with it and I always get punished. Sure, they'll drop it sometimes and I get lucky, but I just wish I had better patience which I don't.

I never paid much attention to jumps and putting opponents in corners, but I'll have to learn. I have a zero wake up game and always tend to let my opponents get up without a fuss and start neutral after most knockdowns. I know they never give me that same courtesy, but it's my habit to break.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
How do you do this? :( I always seem to be telegraphing what I want to do that my opponents are able to sniff out all the time. I'm sure they also likely know the match up. It's not much fun when I can't even push a button without them doing it first and combo me to kingdom come. Why do I keep playing this game? ;_;

The simple answer is that they're educated guesses!

When you're first starting out, what you're capable of (as well as what you're aware of) is pretty finite -- stronger players can dial in on this and exploit it, and this can make you feel helpless. As your skill set and game knowledge expand, the game opens up to you, and you'll start to see what's possible in a given situation. It takes a little bit to get to this place, and it can be very frustrating and overwhelming to start out.
 

Drahcir

Member
The simple answer is that they're educated guesses!

When you're first starting out, what you're capable of (as well as what you're aware of) is pretty finite -- stronger players can dial in on this and exploit it, and this can make you feel helpless. As your skill set and game knowledge expand, the game opens up to you, and you'll start to see what's possible in a given situation. It takes a little bit to get to this place, and it can be very frustrating and overwhelming to start out.

That's definitely where I'm still lingering in my development! It's like I can tell they are planning their attack strategy and I'm being pulled in by some invisible string they have on me. I get the sense I am clearly outmatched by a better player and I think "here goes nothing." I tend to win and lose more with a poking neutral game than anything fancy. I do feel helpless now, but as long as I sense improvement I'll keep playing.
 
Never thought I'd say this but Laura is teaching me the game in interesting ways. I remember making massive progress in understanding SF after switching from Poison to Chun Li in SFIV. I feel similarly switching to Laura. She's forcing me to learn to read and watch players actions. Whereas Chun taught me distance and space.

Never thought I'd ever like playing as a grappler in SF and here we are.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
Never thought I'd say this but Laura is teaching me the game in interesting ways. I remember making massive progress in understanding SF after switching from Poison to Chun Li in SFIV. I feel similarly switching to Laura. She's forcing me to learn to read and watch players actions. Whereas Chun taught me distance and space.

Never thought I'd ever like playing as a grappler in SF and here we are.

That's rad! Similarly, my big "I'm starting to get this" moment happened in 3rd Strike when I switched from Ken to Urien. It really forced me to understand fundamentals and spacing more than playing Ken ever did. Unfortunately, I am still and will always be pretty bad at that game. T_T

I watch and think about fighting games *way* more than I play them and have since 2008 or so, so I still have an extremely long way to go in terms of my own play. Regardless, one of my favorite things about fighting games is that I always feel like there's something I can get better at and I look forward to working on it. And as you get better, the progress is measurable and it feels good!
 

SephLuis

Member
People who are playing SF V, join us too in the community thread. I think it's easier to set up matches there at least.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246347

Also, does anyone here play Bison/Necalli/Birdie ? I am in need of some match up knowledge against those characters.

Also, I am searching for players that can play defensively. I get stressed out against those kind of players and end up making a lot of mistakes, need practice.
 

@Wreck

Member
People who are playing SF V, join us too in the community thread. I think it's easier to set up matches there at least.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246347

Also, does anyone here play Bison/Necalli/Birdie ? I am in need of some match up knowledge against those characters.

Also, I am searching for players that can play defensively. I get stressed out against those kind of players and end up making a lot of mistakes, need practice.


which character do you use?
 
Ok so I'm learning Balrog (switched from zangief) I feel like im playing a whole new game man. I went from silver and dropped to bronze. I seem to be having trouble with his mixups and I need to look up some block strings. I'm still going to keep zangief in my back pocket but it's hard picking up a new character. I feel like a noob again. Right now im hitting training room more than going online since I'm trying to get my combos down. I know he has a lot of potential I see it in prrog. Also gotta practice that v skill of his. I can't seem to do a full screen dash punch into v skill overhead or v skill anything really. Even at bronze they just start mashing jab and that completely ruins my plan. Also sometimes I just can get it out period. Probably because Im doing it too slow bit ill keep practicing on that.
 

markwaters

Neo Member
Ok so I'm learning Balrog (switched from zangief) I feel like im playing a whole new game man. I went from silver and dropped to bronze. I seem to be having trouble with his mixups and I need to look up some block strings. I'm still going to keep zangief in my back pocket but it's hard picking up a new character. I feel like a noob again. Right now im hitting training room more than going online since I'm trying to get my combos down. I know he has a lot of potential I see it in prrog. Also gotta practice that v skill of his. I can't seem to do a full screen dash punch into v skill overhead or v skill anything really. Even at bronze they just start mashing jab and that completely ruins my plan. Also sometimes I just can get it out period. Probably because Im doing it too slow bit ill keep practicing on that.

One thing I want to point out is that *a lot* of things PR Rog does and gets away with are because he's PR Rog and his opponents know this and play in a perpetual state of "I can lose this at any time if I make a mistake." He also tends to play stronger players -- online and especially in tournament -- than you might face at bronze/silver, so their mind game is moving along at a different pace as well. They play a "I know that you know that I know" kind of mind game, where less experienced players tend to play a "I know what's been working so I'm going to stick with it" kind of mind game. The interactions will be a little different in those situations.

That said, full screen dash punch is 100% reactable; it can be jabbed, swept, thrown or worse depending on the spacing. V-skilling out of it is pretty central to avoiding this, but you're better off just not throwing it out full screen if you don't have to. If you are throwing it out full screen for matchup reasons (whether it's the character or player matchup), it's important to learn the spacing of each version of the dash punches so you are more likely to win those interactions.

When you're first starting out, it's better to focus on a solid ground game with normals and pressure over full screen dash punches. Once you get comfortable with all of Rog's tools, you can incorporate tricky stuff and gimmicks to throw off your opponents. The v-skill cancel options are more tricky in situations where they're just trying to avoid/block your pressure.

It sounds like you have the right idea, though! Rog definitely plays completely different from Gief. You just have to get comfortable with the differences.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Who is getting Mark of the Wolves?

Game deserves an online scene.

How do I get good in KOFXIV?

The MAX mode and super execution is killing me.

The execution is pretty strict by modern standards, but it's still pretty lenient compared to the old days.

If anyone is looking for an excellent gateway fighting game, I highly recommend Tatsunoko vs Capcom. Wii/Wii U only, unfortunately, but it was the breakthrough game for me and my friends back in 09.
 

markwaters

Neo Member

For day 0, not at all. A lot of experimenting in those matchups, but I saw a lot of intuitive play as well. I feel like this might be your character tbh.

One general Juri strategy thing, which I think is useful: Try to keep your fireballs all stocked as best you can, or at least pay attention to which ones aren't. You can end blocked hit confirms with a fireball charge up -- it's safe (-2) and there's a small gap that acts as a frame trap. Once your fireballs are stocked, you can go ham and cancel unsafe MK and HK gambles into LK fireball, which makes going nuts safe at -2 when you keep them all stocked. It's kinda cool.
 
Borrowed my friends 3ds and smash that he never plays there anymore. I take it that training mode and getting shit on online is the road to success?
 

AerialAir

Banned
So today I played the Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 Public Beta and I thought I was really going to enjoy it but nope. I rarely play fighting games because when I do so, I play them for the story, since I have no interest in online/multiplayer. Seeing XV2's supposed to be a fighting RPG I figured the plot would be good, but no, it's just confusing. Same thing happened with Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition, which I bought just to scratch the fighting itch.

I want to play a game that actually has an understandable plot, so I guess Saint Seiya: Soldiers' Soul could be one? So what does GAF suggest) (For the PS4)
I did really enjoy Persona 4 Arena Ultimax.
 
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