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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned

G

Gotdatmoney

Member
Tbh you will always run into this type of issue when you want to hold an event that is by nature open up to public viewers. I don't actually think a bunch of black people getting together talking about dealing with black shit is a big deal. It's not like minorities don't already do this anyway. But you know, optics matter lest people get bitchy. It's not about the actual reason why they are being asked not to attend, it's just the fact that they are being told "no" that bugs em.

Ultimately it's still so be it because public events don't have to luxury of demanding nuance. It is what it is. Book a private venue for this and avoid the headache. I don't blame the mayor or city here even if in context its not really a big deal.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
OG Shaka Zulu said:
France being anti-racist? So they refunded Haiti and other former colonies all the money they stole from them the last few centuries? They need to get off their high horse on this one.

France: Where the formerly enslaved pay reparations!
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Listen, their values dictate that they're colorblind now. They probably even apologized. Thats all water under the bridge.
 
B

Beefy

Member
SirRattleBalls said:
The same would apply if it was Whites, Jews, Mexicans, Arabs etc only kids . Its 2017.

Segregation is not a thing anymore. Its a Public space. So it should be open to everyone not just those that you deem worthy
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Segregation isn't a thing? You live in the UK right? Segregation is a thing every day of the week.
 
D

Derwind

Member
excelsiorlef said:
What do you mean by it's 2017? Safe spaces aren't Jim fucking Crow or whatever else from the past you want to compare it to.

Equality hasn't actually been achieved ya know.

You keep just talking in empty slogans rather than understanding where anyone is coming from...

Again you compared safe spaces to the fucking Apartheid...
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Not disagreeing but for many that literally is the mentality.

Look how people were frothing over safe spaces for women, lgbt ... ect in university. They don't give a fuck what is being discussed in those circles, they just cannot fathom why the circle isn't catering to them specifically.
 
Y

Yaphett Kotto

Member
So disgusting for the racially disadvantage group to exclude everyone that isn't racially disadvantaged. Don't they know that's how racism comes to power?!
 
R

RangerX

Banned
It's discriminatory by definition. It serves no purpose other than to divide people. Personally I think it would be of value to black feminists to tighten bonds with white or Asian people who are supportive of their cause.
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
Yaphett Kotto said:
So disgusting for the racially disadvantage group to exclude everyone that isn't racially disadvantaged. Don't they know that's how racism comes to power?!
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You're ignoring the fact that these kind of exclusionary actions hurt other minority groups like Hispanics, Asians, and Muslims. Don't turn this into a white vs black argument.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Furthermore all white white supremacists meetings cannot be compared to black safe spaces

Intent actually matters: White supremacists inherently work to make society less equal, black safe spaces are about meeting to further the move towards equality.
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Intent doesn't matter to law. Not in a way you think it does. The intent needs to be for specific action to happen, something that can be quantified easily. "making society less/more equal" can't be quantified easily. Therefore you can't allow people to be racist in practice just because they do it for noble reasons.
 
S

SirRattleBalls

Banned
Beefy said:
Segregation isn't a thing? You live in the UK right? Segregation is a thing every day of the week.
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Really how ... I'm born and bred in Lewisham and work in Westminster use to work in Derby and I've never encountered segragation .. never seen a only whites sign. So please tell me where segragation is in the UK.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
RangerX said:
It serves no purpose other than to divide people.
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See this is stuff I find weird.

I understand why the mayor has to do what she has to do. But comments like this. You think minorities don't discuss certain issues in environments where it is just them? You think that they do it just to divide?
 
T

Tecnniqe

Banned
Mild racism and segregation is okay when blacks are doing it against other races?

Also if your nation have ever done anything bad in your whole nations history against any minority you now need bend over.




This thinking is so far left that even the left doesn't want anything to do with it.
 
B

Beefy

Member
SirRattleBalls said:
Really how ... I'm born and bred in Lewisham and work in Westminster use to work in Derby and I've never encountered segragation .. never seen a only whites sign. So please tell me where segregation is in the UK.
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You must be blind. Segregation is a big thing here,not as bad as US but still bad. POC are all huddled together in a area in a lot of places in the UK. Just because there aren't signs about doesn't mean shit. Man the area I live down south I hardly see any brothers. Asians and Middle east communities have their own areas to. But nah no segregation.

Tecnniqe said:
Mild racism and segregation is okay when blacks are doing it against other races?

Also if your nation have ever done anything bad in your whole nations history against any minority you now need bend over.




This thinking is so far left that even the left doesn't want anything to do with it.
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Black people is a better way of putting blacks dude.
 
D

Derwind

Member
ITT: "Racism" & "Segregation" is now used synomously with black-feminist spaces located in a black-feminist festival. The horror.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
See this is stuff I find weird.

I understand why the mayor has to do what she has to do. But comments like this. You think minorities don't discuss certain issues in environments where it is just them? You think that they do it just to divide?
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The difference is between whether it's "just them" because that's the kind of people who were interested in discussing it, or because they forbade anybody else to come discuss it.
Honestly I don't see any good reason to exclude anybody on racial basis (let alone the fact that it would be immoral), if you want to discuss discrimination you should do it in the most open environment. Implicitly considering any white person as "part of the problem" isn't really helping building bridges.
Also as a French from "mixed origins", I am very uncomfortable when people try to label people racially. I won't let anyone tell me to which ethnic group I'm supposed to belong, let alone have some of my rights depend on it.
 
R

RangerX

Banned
Gotdatmoney said:
See this is stuff I find weird.

I understand why the mayor has to do what she has to do. But comments like this. You think minorities don't discuss certain issues in environments where it is just them? You think that they do it just to divide?
Click to expand...

No I don't think it's their intention to divide at all. That's the end consequence of holding a festival and saying a particular race isn't allowed into a large part of it. It would be different if it was a private meeting.
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
akira28 said:
the blacks are the real racists. again. mildly.

I am shocked.
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Holding an event like this where you intentionally exclude other races is racist and discriminatory. It is ignorant to think otherwise or to take a stance where you pick and choose who can do these kind of things. Nobody's saying you can't hold these kind of events, but nobody should be able to discriminate like this on public property.

It would be racist regardless of which racial group was organizing it and isn't exclusive.
 
P

psyfi

Banned
Such tired bullshit. Let marginalized people have their spaces! It's not gonna hurt anything but white supremacist colonialist patriarchy, lol. But we'll all be better off without that.
 
D

Dehnus

Member
Hux1ey said:
Coming together and banning other races from entering, so progressive.



That diet racism.
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Sorry but no, at first I didn't wish to reply here, but this comment made me think otherwise. I'm against safespaces in whatever shape or form. Why? Because the world should be safe for you without you having to hide somewhere. Rapists, Racists and other filth should be in jail and not kept from one space only to roam everywhere else. That it doesn't happen, means we have to fight more until it DOES happen.

A safe space is nothing more than going back to segregation because you are too scared to face them head on. And that is not how we can win this battle. Many great figures of our past fought segregation, like separate pools for women and men. Homosexuals being forces to go into the women's locker room while transgenders being forced into the men's, separate bus seats for men and women, separate drinking fountains depending on the colour of your epidermis or even separate parks.

It took us AGES to tear down only a FEW of these straight white male safe spaces, and we are far from done! Let us not put up new ones and be counter productive. Let's tear down more! The reason that a rapist can go unpunished means that it is a safespace for him, and frankly that is unacceptable.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
psyfi said:
Such tired bullshit. Let marginalized people have their spaces! It's not gonna hurt anything but white supremacist colonialist patriarchy, lol. But we'll all be better off without that.
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They also denied other minorities from attending certain areas though.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
Alx said:
The difference is between whether it's "just them" because that's the kind of people who were interested in discussing it, or because they forbade anybody else to come discuss it.
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That's not really my point though. They don't want other people there because they want to discuss certain issues that are better served in the company of other people with their experience. It's not to divide.

The intent isn't fuck others. Regardless of how you slice it as its a public space or w/e that's still the reason why they want it (or even why minorities have these discusions among other minorities in general). I don't really have a problem with that. But they obviously can't do that in a public venue. It's simply too complicated to convey the point to the point. It may also have some law implications which have to be respected

Honestly I don't see any good reason to exclude anybody on racial basis (let alone the fact that it would be immoral), if you want to discuss discrimination you should do it in the most open environment.
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If I wanna have a discussion about race I don't do it around white people. Shrug. It really has nothing to do with dislike but I have to filter myself because personal relationships actually matter in real life. Certain comments need to be understood in a specific contect and I sinply dont feel its worth the bother of hoping it isnt taken wrong and than having to regurgitate trivial talking points. I don't feel it's worth going down that path. Is this the assured outcome everytime the discussion comes up? No. Do I have a societal duty to engage if I don't feel comfortable? Nope. When I have discussions with minorities the conversation is generally understood with more nuance so even if we disagree it's not like I gotta reiterate "Bruh I aint acusing anyone chill"

It's really that simple. I know this bothers some people but it aint like this for imaginary reasons.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
KonradLaw said:
Intent doesn't matter to law. Not in a way you think it does. The intent needs to be for specific action to happen, something that can be quantified easily. "making society less/more equal" can't be quantified easily. Therefore you can't allow people to be racist in practice just because they do it for noble reasons.
Click to expand...

And if I was talking about law we could be having a valid conversation but I am talking about folks in here actively comparing the two on a moral level.
 
K

KingV

Member
Imm0rt4l said:
I don't disagree with your point about public property. I'm only challenging the idea that this is racist. You lost me at white onlybspace for "issues affecting white children". Thats some false equivalency based on something completely imaginary. We don't live in a world where white children are on the margins of society.
Click to expand...

No, but we do live in a world where some people BELIEVE white children are at a disadvantage. I can probably find a sizable number of people in many communities that would also tell you that black women are not disadvantaged, and maybe in fact privileged because of "fake news" or "affirmative action".

The white children thing is purposefully dumb, I'm just making the point that using public space for this type of thing will cause issues because there are more nefarious, but superficially similar meetings that would follow in its wake. In many places in the US, I think you could find a sizable number of people, probably larger than the entire black community in some cases, that might agree that having a sub-PTA only for white kids or Christians, was necessary to push the school into protecting their kids from some imaginary "corrupting influence".
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
RangerX said:
No I don't think it's their intention to divide at all.
Click to expand...

I mean that's what you said though

RangerX said:
It's discriminatory by definition. It serves no purpose other than to divide people.
Click to expand...

Anyhow...

That's the end consequence of holding a festival and saying a particular race isn't allowed into a large part of it. It would be different if it was a private meeting.
Click to expand...

I would agree it's probably gonna be seen that way by anyone who didnt read up or use like 5 mins of critical thinking.

Granted I dont think if you have an event in a public place you should be shocked that people aren't read up on something so controversial. I ultimately agree with the Mayor but I dont see any venom in their actions. More just naive.
 
S

SirRattleBalls

Banned
Beefy said:
You must be blind. Segregation is a big thing here,not as bad as US but still bad. POC are all huddled together in a area in a lot of places in the UK. Just because there aren't signs about doesn't mean shit. Man the area I live down south I hardly see any brothers. Asians and Middle east communities have their own areas to. But nah no segregation.


Black people is a better way of putting blacks dude.
Click to expand...

I grew up in Peyps Estate in London mate ... it's a council estate with mainly a black people , but there where plenty of other minorities.. whites included. People in the UK are not forced to live in certain areas .. you just as easily move to another area as long as you can afford it. The only reasons why areas like mine are predominantly black is because that is where black people arrived after ww2. So many formed families within the areas.
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Yaphett Kotto said:
The word racist has lost all meaning to me with how some just chuck it around on anything.
Click to expand...

Your limiting the use of the word racist, is racist. Prejudice is no longer in the dictionary and any event with exclusions is the apartheid. I expect invites to all of your weddings, family reunions and birthday parties. Why? Because everyone needs to be a part of everything. If they aren't it's racist.

Racism isn't not allowing someone attend an event. That can be a part of racism, but the act alone isn't racism
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
SirRattleBalls said:
I grew up in Peyps Estate in London mate ... it's a council estate with mainly a black people , but there where plenty of other minorities.. whites included. People in the UK are not forced to live in certain areas .. you just as easily move to another area as long as you can afford it.
Click to expand...

Economic discrimination anyone? This negates the whole "move to another area" part in a multitude of ways.
 
F

Funyarinpa

Member
Crimson_Gold said:
Your limiting the use of the word racist, is racist. Prejudice is no longer in the dictionary and any event with exclusions is the apartheid. I expect invites to all of your weddings, family reunions and birthday parties. Why? Because everyone needs to be a part of everything. If they aren't it's racist.

Racism isn't not allowing someone attend an event. That can be a part of racism, but the act alone isn't racism
Click to expand...

Oh. The good old "Racial discrimination isn't racism if it's minorities doing it!" argument.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
KingV said:
No, but we do live in a world where some people BELIEVE white children are at a disadvantage. I can probably find a sizable number of people in many communities that would also tell you that black women are not disadvantaged, and maybe in fact privileged because of "fake news" or "affirmative action".

The white children thing is purposefully dumb, I'm just making the point that using public space for this type of thing will cause issues because there are more nefarious, but superficially similar meetings that would follow in its wake. In many places in the US, I think you could find a sizable number of people, probably larger than the entire black community in some cases, that might agree that having a sub-PTA only for white kids or Christians, was necessary to push the school into protecting their kids from some imaginary "corrupting influence".
Click to expand...

Yeah. Fuck those people, we're socialized to placate racists every waking moment. Having a space where folk don't have to do that seems necessary. And again, not disagreeing with the public space angle. I'm only interested in the reactionaryism. Appealing to those peoples sensibilities nets marginalized people nothing.
 
H

Hux1ey

Banned
Dehnus said:
Sorry but no, at first I didn't wish to reply here, but this comment made me think otherwise. I'm against safespaces in whatever shape or form. Why? Because the world should be safe for you without you having to hide somewhere. Rapists, Racists and other filth should be in jail and not kept from one space only to roam everywhere else. That it doesn't happen, means we have to fight more until it DOES happen.

A safe space is nothing more than going back to segregation because you are too scared to face them head on. And that is not how we can win this battle. Many great figures of our past fought segregation, like separate pools for women and men. Homosexuals being forces to go into the women's locker room while transgenders being forced into the men's, separate bus seats for men and women, separate drinking fountains depending on the colour of your epidermis or even separate parks.

It took us AGES to tear down only a FEW of these straight white male safe spaces, and we are far from done! Let us not put up new ones and be counter productive. Let's tear down more! The reason that a rapist can go unpunished means that it is a safespace for him, and frankly that is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

So am I?

Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Economic discrimination anyone? This negates the whole "move to another area" part in a multitude of ways.
Click to expand...

It's more about class than race in the UK.
 
B

Beefy

Member
SirRattleBalls said:
I grew up in Peyps Estate in London mate ... it's a council estate with mainly a black people , but there where plenty of other minorities.. whites included. People in the UK are not forced to live in certain areas .. you just as easily move to another area as long as you can afford it. The only reasons why areas like mine are predominantly black is because that is where black people arrived after ww2. So many formed families within the areas.
Click to expand...
Dude read what you said and you will see what I am on about. A hell of a lot of POC are poor or in low end jobs. That makes it hard to move out of a lot of areas. I lived near Chelsea, soon as you got nearer to Chelsea it became more and more the majority of white people.

Of course you still get poor white people, but for the % of the population that is POC there are far more poor people.

Hux1ey said:
It's more about class than race in the UK.
Click to expand...


It's both

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/72...-communities-divided-diversity-Britain-Newham


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...regated-15-years-race-expert-riots-ted-cantle

Cantle’s comments follow research from the thinktank Demos, which found 61% of ethnic minority children in England, and 90% in London, start year 1 in schools where the majority of children are from minority groups. The data revealed schools dominated by children of either Bangladeshi, Pakistani or black-Caribbean origin. However, Professor Simon Burgess who processed the data, said it showed that segregation in schools was flat or even declining in some areas.
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Funyarinpa said:
Oh. The good old "Racial discrimination isn't racism if it's minorities doing it!" argument.
Click to expand...

The good old, experiencing .1% of what minorities experience daily, is apartheid and the worst thing ever argument.

The worst part is that holding and exclusive event isn't racist. Having a system that subjugated other groups and makes one group superior in every facet of that system is.

But make false equivalencies
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Yes housing should be free. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Not that economic discrimination as well as even housing discrimination limits the mobility of marginalize people.

Nope, you got it.
Click to expand...

The argument you are having actually blends into the point I was making in one of my posts. In a discussion about racism and segregation it should be pretty well known that minorities often occupy lower rungs in terms of economic buying power and that limits their mobility.

It shouldn't have to be this huge debate that just because "you can move anywhere" it doesn't imply systems really do limit the feasibility of this for certain groups. But now something as innocent as "racial segregation still exists" has to spinoff into how wealth distribution isn't bias (wrong) and it isn't segregation if all the minorities (who just happen to be poor) can't move into affluent white neighborhoods in reasonable numbers.

This is not something I feel would be a huge point of contention is you got a whole bunch of minorities in a room. Maybe they just wanna talk about this without having an off shoot convo just to establish a baseline everyone can work with?
 
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