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[MomoQca]

Region designs have started to go downhill starting with Black and White.

The straightforward path in Unova was disappointing, but that was remedied in Black 2 & White 2. For Kalos, it is less obvious where you are supposed to go, but I found the region to be somewhat bland. Most of the settlements weren't particularly interesting outside of a few like Lumiose and Anistar City. Alola takes the cake in terms of worst region design. The artificial barriers are more prevalent and there are many loading screens even within the islands. Many buildings are inaccessible, more so than any previous games. Something about the in-game map feels cheap.

Edit: great! at the very top of the page...

 

[The Greek Freak]

No they just have the most desperate fans (including me) who will pay 40$ for flaming trash in a cart.

 

[Andrefpvs]

People are putting a lot of words in OP's mouth lol.

You can tell OP prepared for all of the scapegoat trolling by how they carefully worded things.

This. I feel for the OP.

Regardless of agreeing or not with OP's opinion, or even of there being any hidden intention or not, the OP has a clear list of topics they present for discussion, only for people to go completely over them and start mentioning the Switch, or the business part of things, which aren't part of OP's argument.

OP even covered themselves in regards to the "Game Freak is an indie" stuff by saying "gamefreak (...) is far behind every other developer working with or for Nintendo" (as opposed to "Nintendo's developer") only for almost all of the first replies to be "Yo, Game Freak is independent!".

There's a lot of lack of careful reading (or rush to get the first post) here.

____


Anyway, despite agreeing as a whole with many of OP's points, I disagree that they are incompetent. As far as battle design goes, they're brilliant. It's incredibly difficult to build an RPG with a battle system as balanced as this one. Most RPGs tackle this issue by giving the enemies far more HP than the player characters, but Pokémon is so incredibly well balanced that it made competitive play not only possible, but sometimes exciting as well. I know the OP mentions the mechanics but since this is such a big part of the game, it's hard to not weight in its importance in relation to other smaller problems.

I do agree that they feel too conservative, but there is absolutely no guarantee that hiring more people would result in a better game.

One thing though, that the OP doesn't mention, is that Pokémon games are usually riddled with usability problems. On some screens you can use the buttons to make a selection, on others you can't, being forced to use the touch screen. Makes no sense. Also, there is no "quit to overworld" option anymore when you're deep inside menus, despite the function being there in previous games -- so you're forced to press B like 5 times to cancel out of every single submenu you've entered. If there's anyone they need to hire then that's a good Usability Engineer.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I think they tie with Intelligent Systems.

Unless we're counting things like Artoon.

 

[Benzychenz]

They're massive underachievers.

They need to hire more staff and have higher expectations of their own games.

But they sell millions so why would they 🤷*♀️

 

[Jmille99]

They are far from incompetant, they just dont take the risks and attempt as much change to the Pokemon games that I would like.

 

[Mr. Phellps]

Are people having PTSD after UltraS&M's announcement or something?
GameFreak makes Nintendo more money than most devs. There isn't a single publisher out there that wouldn't want them under their wings.

 

[Smasher89]

Would say I completly disagree, but the performance issues in sun & moon got added after xyoras, so not sure what all that is about, and there is some things with pokebank I think could be better.

If anything, the pokemonseries is in general my highest regarded series for new releases, there is soo many small things, references and deep interesting mechanics at play making it my favorite series that has hold it's quality.

Other earlier favorite series are good, but has in general declined in quality(the more time they get on a smash game, the less interesting/unique it becomes), pokemon aside from the performance and handholding still keeps the bar set high!

 

[Kiraly]

Are people having PTSD after UltraS&M's announcement or something?
GameFreak makes Nintendo more money than most devs. There isn't a single publisher out there that wouldn't want them under their wings.

It's not GameFreak that makes the money, it is the IP. Any remotely proper developer could make money with Pokémon.

 

[woodland]

Are people having PTSD after UltraS&M's announcement or something?
GameFreak makes Nintendo more money than most devs. There isn't a single publisher out there that wouldn't want them under their wings.

This doesn't address the OP at all? GameFreak makes Nintendo money because it's Pokemon. Any studio could make Nintendo money if they had Pokemon as their main IP - Pokemon could be a hot turd and make a shit ton of money, which I believe it did with Pokemon Go? Making someone money doesn't mean they're not incompetent or that they are competent.

 

[Shanlei91]

I wonder if them not "capitalizing" on Pokemon is a major contributor as to how they've managed to keep it relevant for so long.

Perpetual blue balls / carrot on a stick / droplets of water for the thirsty.

Conspiracy theory: Niantic was told to handle Pokemon Go that same specific way, hence them also seeming incompetent but capable of producing money.

 

[RionaaM]

I still can't believe how they got away with removing every single useful feature from gen 6, except for Exp Share. Dropping the menu icons on the touch screen, PSS and DexNav should have been unforgivable. And yet here I am, eager to give them money for UltraSun in 5 months. I am part of the problem, supporting practices I disagree with.

Oh well, guess they weren't that unforgivable after all if I'm still willing to buy these games...

 

[KrawlMan]

It's not GameFreak that makes the money, it is the IP. Any remotely proper developer could make money with Pokémon.

That's a bit how I see it. I'm sure many other devs could handle Pokémon with a bit of Nintendo oversight.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about

Gonna be honest, I forgot they did Drill Dozer. I also enjoyed Pocket Card Jockey, but fell off it pretty quick (the glut of systems was just irritating).

 

[ryechu]

Yes, they are. Not only that, after the trials in Sun and Moon I think GF is bad at designing new challenges and mechanics as well.

 

[Adam_Roman]

They're one of the most incompetent, but they also rake in shitloads of money so Nintendo doesn't say anything about it.

 

[Thud]

They made Pocket Card Jockey, so no.

Game is like digital crack. It's so good.

And they made Mendel Palace on NES which is fantastic.

My man. Pocket Card Jockey needs more love.

 

[WiiRevolution1]

Aside from some bad post game single player content, GF is a really great with Pokemon games. The games also have fine famerates and awesome graphics. I've played 200 hours of Pokemon Moon and loved it. Its basically just trolls saying it at this point who want it for Switch.

The least competent developer for Nintendo is the Mario Party team. Which STILL don't have online.

 

[psyfi]

I've been disappointed by the Pokemon games since the original Ruby / Sapphire. GF just doesn't seem to have the same vision for the series as I do.

 

[Opa-Pa]

They make awesome games but yeah, when it comes to technology applied to their games and performance they're pretty bad.

The only other Nintendo published game I can think of with performance as bad as XY and SuMo is Breath of the Wild (Wii U?) and that one was at least pushing its original platform to its limits in every way. Meanwhile Pokemon doesn't even look impressive in the context of the underpowered 3DS and has godawful performance even on n3DS with the 3D off lmao.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

So I'm not alone anymore?

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=917995

I had the same thought 3 years ago and few agreed with me. Some even attacked me for being a Yokai Watch fan.

I'm glad to know that more and more people are coming to realize that Pokemon is not being treated right. It started for real with XY and it's been going for far too long now.

I actually fear for Pokemon Switch. The difference between Pokemon 3DS and other 3DS games was already huge.

Now imagine how big the difference will be between Pokemon Switch and other Switch games.

Eek.

 

[SolarMystic]

Being consistently late to new generations makes them incompetent on scheduling dev time appropriately for at least cross gen games.

This is also on Nintendo as they at least have enough power to insist on a cross gen game.

 

[Servbot24]

GF counting their money.

 

[SDF-1]

Isn't the creator of Pokemon autistic, or at least on the spectrum? Wiki says Tajiri still directs mainline releases in the series.

I'd say that might be a solid reason why their dev process is conservative. Afaik breaking from routine can be anxiety inducing for some people with asd so he might just prefer to stay the course and iterate incrementally while the game remains successful.

I also assume this is why there's very specific rules and conditions around how Pokemon IP is handled.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

I think they tie with Intelligent Systems.

Unless we're counting things like Artoon.

Are you kidding me right now? Intelligent Systems, incompetent? They are one of Nintendo's best development studios, and none of their games have ever had technical issues. What the hell are you even talking about?

Game Freak isn't incompetent either, they make games that receive critical acclaim and sell bucket loads. They likely even keep development costs fairly low and can move tons of merchandise outside of just games. They are basically the perfect development partner from a publisher standpoint

 

[chicken_pasta]

Oh for god's sake.

No.

Yes, they should have scaled down their future proofed models so it can run better, but no they are not incompetent.

Just because they didn't make a Switch game does not warrant this crap.

To be fair with OP, the points he raised about the 3DS games being absolutely ugly and not having 3D are absolutely valid. I don't think the games were doing so many things under the hood that made it impossible for 3DS to run them in 3D.

 

[MomoQca]

Isn't the creator of Pokemon autistic, or at least on the spectrum? Wiki says Tajiri still directs mainline releases in the series.

I'd say that might be a solid reason why their dev process is conservative. Afaik breaking from routine can be anxiety inducing for some people with asd so he might just prefer to stay the course and iterate incrementally while the game remains successful.

I also assume this is why there's very specific rules and conditions around how Pokemon IP is handled.

Are you serious? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

 

[caffeware]

Well, for the first pokemon they didn't compress the tile data, probably making the game more expensive unnecessarily.

For the second one, they needed an outside engineer to help them compress the data...

 

[Opa-Pa]

Using high poly models in a 240p game and having performance be terrible as a result is the definition of a technically incompetent developer.

Well, for the first pokemon they didn't compress the tile data, probably making the game more expensive unnecessarily.

For the second one, they needed an outside engineer to help them compress the data...

Yeah the writing was on the wall from the start.

But hey if we're only going to care about sales then why even have this thread.

 

[Regiruler]

I think they tie with Intelligent Systems.

Unless we're counting things like Artoon.

I want to say this is bait, but Code Name: Steam did have some easily replicable crashing that was never fixed.

 

[Blackquill]

Incompetent might be a little much but seeing how bad their game are aside from the battle system makes me wonder...

 

[Saucestin_Roast]

That's a bit how I see it. I'm sure many other devs could handle Pokémon with a bit of Nintendo oversight.

I feel the same. I honestly think Pokemon has been slipping since X and Y. Lots of areas they could improve big time on. I'm not going to put Gamefreak up on a pedestal.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

What boggles me is the belief from some people that when something is "making money", any criticism or improvement suggestions are shot down or can't be taken into consideration. Jesus...

Points made by OP are totally valid and it's time for Game Freaks to adapt themselves to modern standards. This reminds me of Nintendo fanboys defending Nintendo's anti-online and anti-graphics statements during the Wii and Wii U days under the "ah, they're making more money than Sony and Microsoft", until that direction backfired on them and caused severe damage on Nintendo reputation as hardware maker, something they're struggling now, despite Switch's sales, to reverse the situation.

 

[SDF-1]

Are you serious?

Yes. I've seen a few articles alluding to Tajiri admitting to having Asperger's.

I'm not trying to shame the condition, to me it makes sense that he would have a focused vision of his creation.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

I wouldn't say incompetent. I'd say they just don't really know exactly what fans of the series want. And that fact is baffling.

 

[KingBroly]

What boggles me is the belief from some people that when something is "making money", any criticism or improvement suggestions are shot down or can't be taken into consideration. Jesus...

Points made by OP are totally valid and it's time for Game Freaks to adapt themselves to modern standards. This reminds me of Nintendo fanboys defending Nintendo's anti-online and anti-graphics statements during the Wii and Wii U days under the "ah, they're making more money than Sony and Microsoft", until that direction backfired on them and caused severe damage on Nintendo reputation as hardware maker, something they're struggling now, despite Switch's sales, to reverse the situation.

I think people expected Switch and 3DS. Why is that so wrong to expect? You have to strike while the iron is hot and in a year plus from now, Switch could be the Dodo because they didn't put Pokemon on Switch this fall.

 

[Brashnir]

Not in a world where that new Starfox game was released.

 

[ryechu]

I think they tie with Intelligent Systems.

Unless we're counting things like Artoon.

"Similarly to the origins of HAL Laboratory, the team soon became an auxiliary program unit for Nintendo that provided system tools and hired people to program, fix, or port Nintendo-developed software. Much of the team's original work consists of minor contributions to larger titles developed by Nintendo R&D1 and Nintendo EAD."

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

GF reminds me a lot of Bethesda. They make well received games that are massive financial successes but they're consistently a hot fucking technical mess.

Not in the slightest, there are worlds between this developers especially in the quality control. Bethesda games are full of annoying and sometimes game breaking bugs at launch, on top of that there are many technical hickups.

Pokemon games have sometimes bad framerates, but the rest is well polished.

 

[javac]

I love how the usual argument of "Their games look terrible!" changed to "Their games look too good!" once we got footage of their 3DS' games on a HD emulator.

 

[James Scott]

Not in a world where that new Starfox game was released.

Platinum games is not incompetent.
They made the game in under two years and had a gameplay style created.

 

[MomoQca]

Yes. I've seen a few articles alluding to Tajiri admitting to having Asperger's.

I'm not trying to shame the condition, to me it makes sense that he would have a focused vision of his creation.

I'm aware of that. First of all, we have no legitimate source that he has Aspergers. The "original source" came from an autobiography on Satoshi Tajiri. The author of the book claimed that he got it from Tajiri's MySpace account--that doesn't count as a valid source, in my opinion. Although Tajiri may in fact have Aspergers, he never openly stated to having it.

Secondly, I really doubt Tajiri is to blame for Game Freak's incompetence. He is not the only one in charge. I found your rationale to be a bit silly, and quite frankly, a bit irksome. I don't have Aspergers, but I imagine that if anyone with Aspergers saw your post, they would feel upset.

 

[ryechu]

Platinum games is not incompetent.
They made the game in under two years and had a gameplay style created.

I wouldn't call Platinum all that competent on the technical side. All of their games are plagued with framerate issues.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

They're massive underachievers.

They need to hire more staff and have higher expectations of their own games.

But they sell millions so why would they 🤷*♀️

The satisfaction of creating a great product appreciated by many around the world, and continually pushing to do better? Because if that's how they seriously think, then no wonder people call developers "lazy." GameFreak doesn't realize that motivation doesn't always come from sales.

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

It is pretty frustrating that devs that make buttloads of money like Gamefreak and Bethesda can't seem to get the right talent.

 

[Licas1355]

Well I see them as not incompetent but rather lazy. They can make mininal efforts and still sell huge amounts so I guess they just couldn't be bothered to do something technically advanced.

 

[Red Devil]

Sorry OP, but this seems like an elaborate knee-jerk reaction of somebody who put much faith on this whole "Stars" nonsense, because if anybody thought they were splitting the userbase of Gen VII between two consoles they were simply deluding themselves.

I've grown weary of GameFreak myself but I think you're going a little too far.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Given how outdated Nintendo online system as a whole is and the hardware they're working on, I'm not sure if I can blame Gamefreak for being conservative.

Yes, I think they could use some more modern mechanics, but the final product is still pretty darn good. Hope we can see what they can do on Switch... still disappointed it won't be this time though.

 

[Kyzer]

Region designs have started to go downhill starting with Black and White.

The straightforward path in Unova was disappointing,

Already making no sense

 

[Menitta]

They're slow as shit when it comes to hardware. Same thing happened to the 3DS. One thing that's for certain is that compared to a lot of other 3DS devs, they are not technical wizards.