The fact that you ask a family member to not bring up their racist shit in front of you isn't normalizing racism IMO.
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My brother is a massive racist, and I feel broken
- Thread starter Geist-
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The fact that you ask a family member to not bring up their racist shit in front of you isn't normalizing racism IMO.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
...
Why Trump won, also here
Flying Toaster
Member
I know people believe blood is tight and all of that. But if I had a family member go down that path and I tried to discuss it with them and they were set nothing was racist or wrong.
F them. Out of my life.
F them. Out of my life.
As opposed to letting them freely talk about it and ignoring it, or cutting off all contact.
It was just a sweeping generalization and idealistic idea by pigeon. It completely ignores any complexities or nuance you'd find in the real world outside of NeoGAF.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
You're under no obligation to try and change his views (likely pointless) and/or ever interact with him in any meaningful way again just because he's family, particularly if he idealizes Ben Shapiro. Of all the people, that's his idol? I mean, who does that?
It's really not worth making yourself miserable over either, take it from someone with plenty of experience on a topic like this. (and don't live your life ignoring hard racist, as if things are hunky-dory, like some will tell you. Have some integrity)
It's really not worth making yourself miserable over either, take it from someone with plenty of experience on a topic like this. (and don't live your life ignoring hard racist, as if things are hunky-dory, like some will tell you. Have some integrity)
richardhawk
Member
lmao this guy
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is talking to them about it just not on the table for you?
Just to clarify, you believe that family members' racism should not be addressed and that ignoring has no negatives, am I correct?
Sorry to hear that making any effort at all to stop racism would be too difficult and complicated for you! Don't worry about it I guess, we'll figure it out.
I've questioned the same thing with my brother.
A drug addict. Been caught by the police multiple times. Beat his mother and brother (me) up...
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
I'm estranged from a close family member because of this and many other changes in his personality over the last 15 years.
I've been clear with him, I'm ready to pick up the pieces if he is willing to go into therapy with me, together. I'll even pay for it. He tries to play this game where he wants to negotiate a third party that isn't a licensed doctor. I won't budge.
If the worst he has to go through is admitting he was wrong about a bunch of people he doesn't know, and he doesn't want to even go that far, I'm not going to pretend that I trust or respect him. I love him, but like the way you'd love a 4-year-old.
My door is always open and the offer to work these things out with a professional will always be on the table, but I will tolerate no bigotry - neither elegant nor oafish - in my life. The guy he was 15 years ago wouldn't either.
I will never give up hope that he will come around, but if not, it's because of his irrational hatred. Not mine.
There are no guides for what to do. Let your conscience be your guide.
Best of luck, OP.
I've been clear with him, I'm ready to pick up the pieces if he is willing to go into therapy with me, together. I'll even pay for it. He tries to play this game where he wants to negotiate a third party that isn't a licensed doctor. I won't budge.
If the worst he has to go through is admitting he was wrong about a bunch of people he doesn't know, and he doesn't want to even go that far, I'm not going to pretend that I trust or respect him. I love him, but like the way you'd love a 4-year-old.
My door is always open and the offer to work these things out with a professional will always be on the table, but I will tolerate no bigotry - neither elegant nor oafish - in my life. The guy he was 15 years ago wouldn't either.
I will never give up hope that he will come around, but if not, it's because of his irrational hatred. Not mine.
There are no guides for what to do. Let your conscience be your guide.
Best of luck, OP.
For me it is, absolutely.
My mother grew up in apartheid South Africa, I call her on her racist shit day in and day out.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
........
Because talking to them about not being a racist fuckwit or ostracizing them because racism isn't to be tolerated even when it's family just aren't valid options?
ghostofsparta
Member
You know better than I do, but those messages don't read MASSIVE RACIST. I think he can change his mind with some help
your avatar is from a band whose most famous song is called "i wanna be a faggot" and you insinuated you'd die fighting for your gun rights on this very forum.
now here you are complaining about hyperbole on this forum and equate preachy vegans with racists.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Then why are you reacting so negatively to the idea that ignoring family members' racism helps racism thrive?
Imp the Dimp
Member
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I mean it's always going to be there. For example if you ever bring a PoC friend, LGBT+ friend, hell, even a female friend around for a family gathering or whatnot there will always be that thought of your family member presuming some rancid shit about that person just because of who they are. I'd rather have a conversation with my bigoted family member and tell them to cut the shit and allow them the opportunity and chance to open their ears and change to be more accepting of other people.
It was the "I understand why someone might stab 3 people because Muslims" part that seemed like "massive racist".
He actually did start using it a few texts down, but I didn't think it would be appropriate to post them.
It's actually not that far off if you cared to research the populations of each of these countries.
MegaMelon
Member
It's actually not that far off if you cared to research the populations of each of these countries.
But that's sharia law in THEIR country. And you have every right to oppose sharia law in principle but trying to use that as evidence most muslims want to impose it in western countries is disingenous.
This cannot be stressed enough, attempting to be ignorant of the issue doesn't exactly help the situation.
It totally leads to this kind of normalisation:
"Well if my liberal lefty brother can put up with me spouting this shit as long as I don't say it around him, it must just be that he's got his opinion and i've got mine".
Racism is absolutely and objectively wrong and I don't think it should be tolerated.
Everything is a valid option.
The way I see it, everyone is retreating into their holes where they know they feel right, be it progressive or conservative bubbles. I think conversation and engaging these people is the best course of action, but I fully understand people who do want to simply cut off all contact with these people with shit views. I would rather be polite, engage them on friendly terms, and this has lead to an uncle blocking me on Facebook, but that is his problem not mine: I know I tried to make them see the world differently.
Username1198
Member
🤔
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Ya'll I'm honestly still shook that someone said being a hardcore vegan was the same thing as being a hardcore racist up in this thread.
Some folk really value poultry over PoC huh 😏
Some folk really value poultry over PoC huh 😏
VendettaRed07
Member
It isn't going to be easy but yeah "chip away".
But you also can't be weak in the process. You have to be firm and keep reminding him what he's saying is bullshit. Don't let him get the last word in and let something "slide". Keep poking holes in his logic. Keep making him contradict himself.
You can approach it without being combative at first you have to ramp up the intensity if he doesn't get it
If it doesn't work if he actually loves you and cares about you make sure he knows you won't tolerate or talk to him if he continues to act and think the way he does. He'll try and rethink if he gives a shit about you
But you also can't be weak in the process. You have to be firm and keep reminding him what he's saying is bullshit. Don't let him get the last word in and let something "slide". Keep poking holes in his logic. Keep making him contradict himself.
You can approach it without being combative at first you have to ramp up the intensity if he doesn't get it
If it doesn't work if he actually loves you and cares about you make sure he knows you won't tolerate or talk to him if he continues to act and think the way he does. He'll try and rethink if he gives a shit about you
GustyGardens
Banned
It's not that you normalize their behavior, you challenge it. When you challenge their way of thinking, no matter how stubborn they may seem, something might seep through. That's the hope, at least. The bond between family members is strong, so I wouldn't be so quick to cast someone aside.
While it's true that some people won't change, there's no harm in trying to teach them that their worldview is based on ignorance and not facts. If we continue to treat people that we don't agree with like pariahs, how can we ever change as a society? I feel like their hatred will continue to grow if we cast them out to surround themselves with each other.
Like I said, though, some people are beyond any sort of help and that's pretty unfortunate.
Alright, for the sake of not further derailing this thread I think that's a fair assessment by you. I stand corrected.
Skellig Gra
Member
Make him hang out with you and your black and/or Muslim friends. He'll see they aren't as bad as he thinks and are deserving of empathy. Do you have any?
Damn, that's actually pretty close to what I did. I gave him the number to the local mosque and told him he should talk to an Imam about his misunderstandings about Islam. :-/
Not currently I'm afraid. Most of my friends have kind of just drifted away since finishing college, and I haven't really developed a new social circle.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
That's not a bad idea though, just go along.
This is the real answer. if you can have conversations with him without it turning into a fight then it's almost your duty as his brother to drill down into the why's and explain your position every time he brings stuff like that up. My uncle and I are on opposite sides of many social issues and we have many great conversations about the importance of conservative values but also about how people shouldn't be labeled and lumped together. The big thing I always try to impress on him is that the issues are not as cut and dry as cable news makes them out to be and we need to think about what's true and actually happening in the world around us. There's many people on the left who just as easily miss that point as well.
I recommend this as well OP. A long time ago my dad was tossing out diet racism about indian people at the dinner table, and I politely told him that I didn't appreciate that as I had an indian friend at the time. To my old man's credit he got sheepish, apologized for what he said and stated he was proud of me for sticking up for a friend. He's an oldschool union democrat though he didn't need much nudging.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
*tolerate.
Plus you are assuming that the white people who would intervene with someone who is possibly nascent in their prejudice is equipped to correct someone who is brazenly prejudiced.
All the people saying "just don't talk about it" are just as bad as the person saying racist shit.
Ya'll clearly don't care enough about how their racism effects others and are perfectly ok tolerating it. If you really want to help, confront that shit. If and if they still believe their racist foolishness, forget about them. Show them that people don't want to be around that.
Ya'll clearly don't care enough about how their racism effects others and are perfectly ok tolerating it. If you really want to help, confront that shit. If and if they still believe their racist foolishness, forget about them. Show them that people don't want to be around that.
I might also consider reporting him to the authorities, if his behavior becomes more extreme than it already is. It is disturbing that he would empathize with a murderer.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
Hey OP, the only solution to this, no matter how futile it seems, is to talk to him and convince him otherwise. If not, he will pass this down to his children. And his children's children. I don't want my children to have to worry about other children calling them niggers or making racist comments/ jokes at them. I just want racism to go away. White people talking to their racist white family about how terrible they are for believing in this is the first step.
Do it for for the minorities out here who just wanna live in peace and harmony with y'all. Thanks
Do it for for the minorities out here who just wanna live in peace and harmony with y'all. Thanks
indigo lily
Member
It's definitely more clear cut when the discrimination directly involves you. I know many friends that cut family off after getting into an interracial or homosexual relationship and their family reacting horrendously.
At a point you need to create boundaries for your own sake. As an ally it may help to create boundaries for marginalized group's sake. They may throw a fit or worse for months or years... but they may actually open up after realizing the loss is too great for them
I never encouraged anyone to ignore racism. OP could tell his brother to not bring up his racist shit, but still bring up the BLM movement, or talk about civil rights. If his brother can't resist sewing hateful speech during a normal discussion, then OP should distance himself to avoid even more hurt.
Vicetrailia
Member
Well white people do have a disconnect from the word, so they can be quite adept at chip away patience talk.