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[Skellig Gra]

All the people saying "just don't talk about it" are just as bad as the person saying racist shit.

Ya'll clearly don't care enough about how their racism effects others and are perfectly ok tolerating it.

That's a gross oversimplification. You can't just cut out a family member. He'll still be at every family gathering making it awkward as hell for all the hopefully non racist family members. I tried cutting out one of my brothers but it broke my moms heart.

 

[Tommy DJ]

How the fuck do I deal with this shit? We were so fucking close, he's only 2 years younger than I am. He never used to be like this. He worked construction for a few years about 5 years back and I guess he had some bad experiences with some of his black coworkers. After that he started getting into politics, watching conservative pundits, and now he's a total believer. I've been trying so hard to walk him through how to fact check all these videos so he can come to the realization that he's wrong by himself, but his beliefs are fanatical. Everyone else but a few conservative pundits are fake news.

It always hardest to break the people who start holding terrible beliefs the build to justify/confirm certain poor experiences. The only way you can deal with it is to get them to question their views. They're not going to listen immediately but eventually they can tone down their views.

They're unlikely to outright admit they were wrong because no one is man enough these days to say "sorry man, I was a dickhead for being a racist/sexist/whatever".

My dad used to be totally against same sex marriage, mostly because he thought two mothers or two fathers could not adequately take care of children. I've found the easiest way to get them to question their views isn't so much to directly call them out, because a lot of conservatives quickly resort to a sort of siege mentality, but point out the contradictions in their opinion.

My brother went through a bad divorce and he and his ex-wife are honestly pretty terrible parents using the child as a weapon. Every time my dad started going against same sex adoption, I kind of threw out the idea that the most important thing is love and that a loving homosexual couple would be able to provide a better family environment then your typical broken heterosexual couple.

After a couple years, he's actually come around and he's in direct support for same sex marriage. He probably wouldn't make an effort to get to the voting booth if there was a referendum tomorrow but he'd be happy for them if they get the right.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's a gross oversimplification. You can't just cut out a family member. He'll still be at every family gathering making it awkward as hell for all the hopefully non racist family members. I tried cutting out one of my brothers but it broke my moms heart.

The person you quoted said nothing about cutting them out.

We're trying to get people talking to their families about this-_-

 

[SolarMystic]

Same way you deal with any racist your close too. Report it to their employers then laugh when he's out of a job.

 

[Sanjuro]

All the people saying "just don't talk about it" are just as bad as the person saying racist shit.

How does that work?

I mean, obviously you don't ignore it. It just wouldn't be proactive to go to the jugular like you suggest.

 

[Username1198]

do you have another brother or sister or family member that shares the same views as you op to talk to your brother? Maybe he will see his views are wrong if two or more close family members confront him?

 

[Skellig Gra]

The person you quoted said nothing about cutting them out.

We're trying to get people talking to their families about this-_-

I hear you. I don't disagree if you read my other post in the thread. Some people are making it seem like this is a real easy solution with no nuance.

 

[Wereroku]

You're probably not going to be able to change him sadly as I have come to figure out with my brother. So mostly I just avoid talking about certain subjects with him. He isn't aggressive about it so it doesn't normally come up but occasionally I will just leave a conversation with him. If it ever gets to bad I will probably just stop talking to him. Sorry man.

 

[Davilmar]

Make him hang out with you and your black and/or Muslim friends. He'll see they aren't as bad as he thinks and are deserving of empathy. Do you have any?

I my experience living in the South, this doesn't work. As a Black man on the receiving end of this, people just end up calling me the "good one" or say that there are good Blacks (me), or "niggers" (others). I can't speak for the OP's brother, but some people are far too gone for this approach to work. Seen it happen personally too many times.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

How does that work?

I mean, obviously you don't ignore it. It just wouldn't be proactive to go to the jugular like you suggest.

Imagine you're out in the clubs and your pal or brother starts harassing women or attempts to take a drunk woman home while he's sober. You say nothing and don't even attempt to stop it.

It's the same thing. No purpose in saying you care about your views when you don't actually apply it in your daily life to cull bullshit

 

[pigeon]

*tolerate.

That doesn't seem better?

Plus you are assuming that the white people who would intervene with someone who is possibly nascent in their prejudice is equipped to correct someone who is brazenly prejudiced.

I'm not expecting them to magically convince him. That's not how humans work. I'm expecting them to enforce social boundaries and demonstrate that there are consequences for exhibiting a fundamental lack of moral character.

 

[Sanjuro]

Imagine you're out in the clubs and your pal or brother starts harassing women or attempts to take a drunk woman home while he's sober. You say nothing and don't even attempt to stop it.

It's the same thing.

It really isn't. In that scenario you call the cops.

 

[17 Seconds]

Why Trump won, right here

we're talking about a family member here, not some dude he knows. come on.

 

[Geist-]

do you have another brother or sister or family member that shares the same views as you op to talk to your brother? Maybe he will see his views are wrong if two or more close family members confront him?

I'm actually going to show these texts to my parents and see if I can get their help with confronting him. Like I said, they're not directly racist, and if they saw how blatant these texts are they might be willing to help me try to help him.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

It really isn't. In that scenario you call the cops.

In your scenario, you proactively did something to stop the behavior. Just like how you can speak up and say "look sis, it's not a good look for you to be saying this and I'ma tell you why." If anything, it's easier than calling the police!

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm actually going to show these texts to my parents and see if I can get their help with confronting him. Like I said, they're not directly racist, and if they saw how blatant these texts are they might be willing to help me try to help him.

Hopefully that doesn't backfire on you.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I my experience living in the South, this doesn't work. As a Black man on the receiving end of this, people just end up calling me the "good one" or say that there are good Blacks (me), or "niggers" (others). I can't speak for the OP's brother, but some people are far too gone for this approach to work. Seen it happen personally too many times.

Worth a shot. Better than giving up. My dad warmed up to my gay friends this way.

 

[ColdPizza]

I'm actually going to show these texts to my parents and see if I can get their help with confronting him. Like I said, they're not directly racist, and if they saw how blatant these texts are they might be willing to help me try to help him.

I'm actually interested to see how this goes. Will you report back with an update?

 

[Geist-]

Hopefully that doesn't backfire on you.

Literally why I haven't done it yet. I'm afraid I'll learn things about my parents I didn't know.

I'm actually interested to see how this goes. Will you report back with an update?

Sure

 

[ezekial45]

How does that work?

I mean, obviously you don't ignore it. It just wouldn't be proactive to go to the jugular like you suggest.

To put it plainly, when you stay silent or are willing to ignore it because it doesn't affect you, then you'll allowing that behavior to continue on and spread. If you're a true ally, or if you just care for a fellow person, then you'll do what you can stand up to that kind of vile behavior.

The only thing silence does in this situation is show that it doesn't bother you and that you're allowing it to continue. And that's just as bad--the people that allow this happen, and yet call themselves good people deserve to be called out just as much as the actual racists.

 

[Username1198]

I'm actually going to show these texts to my parents and see if I can get their help with confronting him. Like I said, they're not directly racist, and if they saw how blatant these texts are they might be willing to help me try to help him.

That's good. I'd talk to them before hand so that everyone is on the same page, maybe even rehearse what you guys are gonna talk to him about, and to show him how his views are very wrong.

I hope it all works out for you. It is a very tough situation you are in.

Hopefully that doesn't backfire on you.

If their was even a slight chance that it would backfire, why would op even ask them for help? I assume since he is willing to talk to them, they share the same views as op, instead of his brother.

Edit: soorry, I see ops edit above. Dang that is super tough, best of luck dude.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Literally why I haven't done it yet. I'm afraid I'll learn things about my parents I didn't know.

Sorry this is hitting you hard man, best of luck

 

[Sanjuro]

In your scenario, you proactively did something to stop the behavior. Just like how you can speak up and say "look sis, it's not a good look for you to be saying this and I'ma tell you why." If anything, it's easier than calling the police!

If someone is harassing another person? I'm not positive that it's a great idea to get involved at that stage. The most you can do is give constructive advice. After that it sounds like a mess.

 

[exmachina64]

I haven't spoken with my extended family in years and it's great. I don't have to deal with their fake news and racist bullshit anymore.

After a couple years, he's actually come around and he's in direct support for same sex marriage. He probably wouldn't make an effort to get to the voting booth if there was a referendum tomorrow but he'd be happy for them if they get the right.

Not supporting it at the voting booth helps others take it away.

 

[maxiell]

Maybe buy him a book about this topic. I'm sure someone here can recommend something worthwhile. Frederick Douglass' autobiography is quite the eye-opener, for example.

 

[polyh3dron]

Just don't engage him in these types of discussions.

Why Trump won, right here

but i thought it was because we called the racists racists

 

[The Kree]

Learn the Dempsey Roll and go to town on him. I honestly don't have better advice than that.

 

[Fantastical]

Basically everyone in my family and extended family says racist shit all the time and it's one of the reasons I rarely ever want to see them.

I have tried talking to them about it. I have tried screaming at them about it. They all just see me as a liberal and my opinions are null and void. At least some of them actually admit to being racist.

 

[Sanjuro]

To put it plainly, when you stay silent or are willing to ignore it because it doesn't affect you, then you'll allowing that behavior to continue on and spread. If you're a true ally, or if you just care for a fellow person, then you'll do what you can stand up to that kind of vile behavior.

The only thing silence does in this situation is show that it doesn't bother you and that you're allowing it to continue. And that's just as bad--the people that allow this happen, and yet call themselves good people deserve to be called out just as much as the actual racists.

I agree with this. I just wouldn't turn into an antagonist if a situation or topic doesn't come up again.

 

[brian577]

Why Trump won, right here

There's no point in trying to change the mind of someone who won't change. Better to focus on the uneducated and ignorant.

 

[kirblar]

I'm not expecting them to magically convince him. That's not how humans work. I'm expecting them to enforce social boundaries and demonstrate that there are consequences for exhibiting a fundamental lack of moral character.

This is difficult when a majority of white people vote for the GOP each election cycle. It's very hard to maintain values when a majority of people actively don't believe in them.

The reason the solution is "abandon contact/escape to a less shitty peer group or place to live" is because you're generally outnumbered by the idiot racist horde.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Keep challenging him. Keep making counterpoints. If both of you care about truth and are willing to be honest, ground can always be gained. Don't be dismissive. Ask questions. Push him to think critically about his specific political beliefs.

 

[Snowybreak]

So, I have a younger brother who is 17 right now. I also have another younger brother who is 19 and in the Air Force. The youngest one has decided that he wants to immerse himself in conservative media, including lots of Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro. The other one? Still a hot-blooded liberal.

But, there are ways to shut down certain trains of thought and close out hateful rhetoric. First, present them with hard facts. If they throw it out or try to bend it, try the Socratic method. Question his beliefs one by one, and then just keep asking why he believes it. And third, strongman him. Create an environment where he is scared to reveal his true beliefs, put the seed of doubt in his mind.

Other than that, I hope it all works out for you.

 

[AstroNut325]

I can relate. I'm indian and most of my family, heck most Indians I know are very racist against middle Eastern folks and black people.

I try to slowly convince them that they're racists, but they think they're not racists.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I can relate. I'm indian and most of my family, heck most Indians I know are very racist against middle Eastern folks and black people.

I try to slowly convince them that they're racists, but they think they're not racists.

It's a small, albeit meaningless victory when you finally get them to admit that they are, in fact, a bunch of pathetic racists. The delusion is real.

 

[The Real Abed]

Your brother is a fucking moron, I would 👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽 his ass

You would fist his ass?

 

[SnowFlakeCake]

Why are you posting a conversation between you and your brother, on a fucking gaming forum? Come on man, if you are close at all with him would you not be doing this shit.

I come from a Sikh family and a very much Asian demographic here in London. I think Indians are the most racist motherfuckers on the planet, makes you desensitised to the shit. The crap I've heard all my life from family and in school is racist as fuck, my high school was open racism throughout. I've come across enough people in my time to know that at least for us, racism is a thing of life.

If you're sensitive, don't talk to an old Indian person, an old white person would be a fucking picnic compared. My gran reminds me of Chappelle show with the hater sketch, she don't like most people, she does not even like other Sikhs unless they are the right caste. All Indians I know are racist as they get to be honest, wouldn't stop talking to them over an opinion they hold though.

Racism will never be a big deal for me and I honestly can't believe you're crying over what your brother said, sort your fucking self out man. Unless he is out there actively beating Muslim people up, him talking shit means nothing.

 

[Shadowhelper]

Just because he is your brother doesn't change that he seems to be a vile piece of human garbage OP. If you accept him or interact with him, beyond telling him you reject him, then you are promoting and condoning his horrific views. There is only one right thing to do in this case, never speak to him. Otherwise you are no better.

Why are you posting a conversation between you and your brother, on a fucking gaming forum? Come on man, if you are close at all with him would you not be doing this shit.

I come from a Sikh family and a very much Asian demographic here in London. I think Indians are the most racist motherfuckers on the planet, makes you desensitised to the shit. The crap I've heard all my life from family and in school is racist as fuck, my high school was open racism throughout. I've come across enough people in my time to know that at least for us, racism is a thing of life.

If you're sensitive, don't talk to an old Indian person, an old white person would be a fucking picnic compared. My gran reminds me of Chappelle show with the hater sketch, she don't like most people, she does not even like other Sikhs unless they are the right caste. All Indians I know are racist as they get to be honest, wouldn't stop talking to them over an opinion they hold though.

Racism will never be a big deal for me and I honestly can't believe you're crying over what your brother said, sort your fucking self out man. Unless he is out there actively beating Muslim people up, him talking shit means nothing.

Just because your family and you are racist, doesn't mean other people should be. No offence, but your post is pretty stupid and disgusting. You paint a pretty dim view of Indian people.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Just because he is your brother doesn't change that he seems to be a vile piece of human garbage OP. If you accept him or interact with him, beyond telling him you reject him, then you are promoting and condoning his horrific views. There is only one right thing to do in this case, never speak to him. Otherwise you are no better.

This intuitively seems counterproductive to me. You can be a loving brother and completely oppose his social and political views. You might actually be the only positive influence in his life in this regard.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The fact that you ask a family member to not bring up their racist shit in front of you isn't normalizing racism IMO.

Of course it is.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Everything is a valid option.

The way I see it, everyone is retreating into their holes where they know they feel right, be it progressive or conservative bubbles. I think conversation and engaging these people is the best course of action, but I fully understand people who do want to simply cut off all contact with these people with shit views. I would rather be polite, engage them on friendly terms, and this has lead to an uncle blocking me on Facebook, but that is his problem not mine: I know I tried to make them see the world differently.

...

Omg.

You preach against bubbles but live in your own where apparently there's no such thing as an invalid opinion.

 

[Shadowhelper]

This intuitively seems counterproductive to me. You can be a loving brother and completely oppose his social and political views. You might actually be the only positive influence in his life in this regard.

This isn't simply dems versus republicans. Black people and Muslim people are literally being killed on the streets on a regular basis, to say nothing of all the abuse, harassment and discrimination they receive. His brother is flat out dangerous and part of the problem. Just read what his brother said.

Frankly, these reactions themselves are telling. People are always trying to hand-waive away why dangerous and ignorant views about Muslims or Black people aren't THAT bad. " Oh it's not a big deal. My grandmother and brother are also a vile racists, and I don't mind, so just be cool yeah?"

 

[bengraven]

I've talked about my dad here but yeah, it's hard. I used to call my dad every few days (we live 2000 miles apart) but now it's more like every month or two. Every conversation falls into a rant against SomaliansHmong, and Muslims.

He lives in the Twin Cities and for years he would make jokes about the Somalians because they are stereotyped as being taxi drivers and my dad would compete with groups of them for old police cars at government auctions. Now it went from snide jokes to mean jokes to hatred to pure violence upon them and their children- using issues in the community over the last few years as reasons for his hatred.

And as Muslim, my dad is furious about the 9/11 terrorists having trained in Minnesota. Between that and rumors of a Muslim cell in the state, he loudly declares at public gatherings and with children around, that we should put them all in concentration camps and gas them.

And my family all agree with him.

 

[Piggus]

If a family member said that to me I'd tell them to fuck off and not talk to me until they grow a pair of nuts and stop being such a pathetic coward. Thankfully none of my immediate family holds those shitty views.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Why are you posting a conversation between you and your brother, on a fucking gaming forum? Come on man, if you are close at all with him would you not be doing this shit.

I come from a Sikh family and a very much Asian demographic here in London. I think Indians are the most racist motherfuckers on the planet, makes you desensitised to the shit. The crap I've heard all my life from family and in school is racist as fuck, my high school was open racism throughout. I've come across enough people in my time to know that at least for us, racism is a thing of life.

If you're sensitive, don't talk to an old Indian person, an old white person would be a fucking picnic compared. My gran reminds me of Chappelle show with the hater sketch, she don't like most people, she does not even like other Sikhs unless they are the right caste. All Indians I know are racist as they get to be honest, wouldn't stop talking to them over an opinion they hold though.

Racism will never be a big deal for me and I honestly can't believe you're crying over what your brother said, sort your fucking self out man. Unless he is out there actively beating Muslim people up, him talking shit means nothing.

Apathy sucks. You can be better. Also racism is horrific and being upset about it is a good thing. But sure shame others for giving a shit.

we're talking about a family member here, not some dude he knows. come on.

Yes and?

 

[Pusherman]

You say you're close. If he's a good brother in every other way I'd advise you to just stop talking about these topics. Be clear about why you won't engage with him on it. Tell him you think it is dumb, racist and hateful and the only proper response would be an ass beating. Cutting off a brother is a huge deal and not something to be taken lightly. Try to keep your relationship intact.

 

[Disgraced]

If a family member said that to me I'd tell them to fuck off and not talk to me until they grow a pair of nuts and stop being such a pathetic coward. Thankfully none of my immediate family holds those shitty views.

Easier to say that then, maybe?

 

[excelsiorlef]

You say you're close. If he's a good brother in every other way I'd advise you to just stop talking about these topics. Be clear about why you won't engage with him on it. Tell him you think it is dumb, racist and hateful and the only proper response would be an ass beating. Cutting off a brother is a huge deal and not something to be taken lightly. Try to keep your relationship intact.

Or talk about it repeatedly until he learns or cuts him off himself...

Just keeping silent in the name of not rocking the boat is enabling

 

[HiredN00bs]

This isn't simply dems versus republicans. Black people and Muslim people are literally being killed on the streets on a regular basis, to say nothing of all the abuse, harassment and discrimination they receive. His brother is flat out dangerous and part of the problem. Just read what his brother said.

Frankly, these reactions themselves are telling. People are always trying to hand-waive away why dangerous and ignorant views about Muslims or Black people aren't THAT bad. " Oh it's not a big deal. My grandmother and brother are also a vile racists, and I don't mind, so just be cool yeah?"

It is a big deal and an important problem to solve. I'm curious as to why you think shunning is a more effective solution than engaging in criticism, especially when close relationships provide unique opportunities to challenge harmful beliefs.

 

[KillLaCam]

The fact that you ask a family member to not bring up their racist shit in front of you isn't normalizing racism IMO.

"its OK to do it just not around me "