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[King Tubby]

That's cool, as a gay person I don't need to be lectured on having to "pick my battles" and to stay cordial with people who hate me. You do you.

I think it's a totally different situation if you're dealing with this kind of stuff directed at you. At that point you need to do what's best for your own well-being.

 

[royalan]

I have been close with my grandmother since I was a little child. The ONLY reason our relationship survived my coming out and her initial judgement is because I didn't hesitate to show my disgust, my disappointment, and I didn't hesitate to make it quite clear that there was no room in my life hate and judgement of who I was. From anybody.

The ONLY reason my grandmother, in her 60 years of living, made the journey to being a more open, accepting person is because she was faced with the very real possibility of losing someone she cared about.

I realize that things don't always work this way for everyone. But no way in any fucking hell do I advocate silent acceptance (and yes, silence is acceptance), when a family member is being a racist/sexist/homophobic dumbfuck.

 

[Psychoward]

I think it's a totally different situation if you're dealing with this kind of stuff directed at you. At that point you need to do what's best for your own well-being.

Well it wasn't directly at me, it was just homophobic and racist shit in general (and actually the racism was the worse part and I'm white). Also I wasn't open in high school.

I think at the very least people shouldn't be surprised and call others toddlers for cutting people out of their life.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I agree that it's very possible that the minor ill of choosing to enjoy the apolitical personality traits of someone who thinks something kinda or outright shitty, politically, can fairly easily be made up for by other efforts one contributes to society, but the truth is that people who let themselves become so swallowed up by politics, ESPECIALLY those who embrace the hateful parts of the political spectrum, typically are not particularly good to be around, anyway.

 

[theignoramus]

Yeah, I think this is a good answer. You have to let some of it go past you and try to keep the peace. This is a pretty hyperbolic forum at times, and a lot of people will tell you to disown your brother. I would not do that. Your influence to him will be more important as a loving brother than as an arch-purist (from his point of view) who is willing to jettison a family member over politics.

My niece is a really annoying preachy vegan. I used to tease her about it, which she could not handle and it led to fights. I came to understand how sensitive she is about it and now I lay off the topic and just respect her individuality.

(BTW, I am not saying its a perfect parallel, but sort of.)

For this poster, an assertion that a whole class of people are subhuman is only a matter of "politics." A gentlemans disagreement.
This is why the US has hundreds of years of unsolved racial baggage, this mindset right here.

 

[The Maverick]

Cut him out of your life and tell him that if he wants a relationship, stop being a piece of shit. In America it is apparently worse to confront a racist than it is to be one. All this "speak with love", "just don't talk politics" shit does not work. People will refuse to change until they are faced with being ostracized for their negative views.

A large part of the reason that progress in the US is stifled is because progressives and moderates go out of their way to make people with reprehensible beliefs feel accepted. People would rather accept a false construct of comfort than to face how shitty some people really are.

Lucky for me, I'm black, so I don't have the luxury of ignoring "disagreements" on civil rights and political beliefs.

 

[NullPointer]

You're his older brother, give him some hard facts and if necessary hard lefts

This.

Its not like some acquaintance you just unfriend on Facebook and move on. This is close family, flesh and blood and you're the big bro.

Be the big bro.

You can't force people to realize, but you can show another way. Don't give up on him.

 

[pigeon]

A large part of the reason that progress in the US is stifled is because progressives and moderates go out of their way to make people with reprehensible beliefs feel accepted. People would rather accept a false construct of comfort than to face how shitty some people really are.

ITT

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;

 

[grumble]

Honestly just bring your brother out to meet people in the Muslim community and to get familiar with other cultures. Racism comes in large part from ignorance, insecurity and a diet of lies. If he interacts with people from different backgrounds maybe he'll gain understanding.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

ive cut just about everyone out of my life but the hardest one was trying to tell a family member their partner is a bad influence without them also hating you for even suggesting it.
Feels like it just made things that much worse for trying to do right.

 

[Northernlights]

Not everyone is cool with just pretending someone isn't a bigot.

this

 

[Korey]

Try cutting him out completely as a first step.

It's easy and will make your life better. No reason to keep toxic, horrible people in your life.

 

[NullPointer]

Try cutting him out completely as a first step.

It's easy and will make your life better. No reason to keep toxic, horrible people in your life.

In what universe is it easy, much less better, to remove your brother from your life?

 

[Dangansona]

My problem is I simply don't know enough numbers/counterpoints to counteract whatever BS my younger brother says "The majority of crimes are committed by black people. That's from FBI statistics." I mean I guess for that one I could guess the real issue is poorer people are more likely to commit crimes so we should be working to improve racial equality, but then he would say something back and it would never end.

Like, at some point the onus shouldn't be on me as a decent person to have a mental record of every bogus alt right talking point and fake news and how to respond, should it? But I'm also not sure "that's awful because it's racist" is enough?

 

[Korey]

In what universe is it easy, much less better, to remove your brother from your life?

Well it's easy. You simply stop talking to them.

I mean, in an ideal world your family members are all good people. In the case that they're not, there's absolutely nothing wrong with removing them from your life.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

You're gonna have to take a more stern approach. Because what happens when your brother attacks someone? Imagine if your brother was a muslim extremist, would you be just posting on GAF or would you do something about it? You can't let this shit slide because it's dangerous, racism is just as dangerous as extremism and you need to stop treating it as benign.

You let your brother off, he abuses someone or attacks someone, you're culpable.

You're a good person, you can't let this shit slide because it feeds into the hatred that's out there. Islamic extremism is fueled by racism, of all kinds against brown and black people. These extremists use it as an excuse and mix it with religion to make themselves feel better.

 

[Simply Sami]

Late to the party. What the text say?

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Well it's easy. You simply stop talking to them.

I mean, in an ideal world your family members are all good people. In the case that they're not, there's absolutely nothing wrong with removing them from your life.

Its probably more a question of being a really tough thing to do for most people, rather than it being wrong or not.

 

[NullPointer]

Well it's easy. You simply stop talking to them.

I mean, in an ideal world your family members are all good people. In the case that they're not, there's absolutely nothing wrong with removing them from your life.

So you speak from experience I take it?

Family doesn't just disappear or stop intersecting your life because you stop talking to them.

 

[lem0n]

While it's shitty he's that ignorant, don't forget he's your brother.

 

[royalan]

While it's shitty he's that ignorant, don't forget he's your brother.

And what is that supposed to mean?

Don't forget that he's your brother, so excuse his racism and the harm he might cause to others.

 

[Korey]

So you speak from experience I take it?

Family doesn't just disappear or stop intersecting your life because you stop talking to them.

Yea, you also have to move out. Which usually happens automatically at 18 years old.

 

[Psychoward]

While it's shitty he's that ignorant, don't forget he's your brother.

lol

 

[Merchandise]

Why Trump won, right here

I think you're misusing the phrase

People saying that people need to call babies babyself rather than he/she because they haven't chosen their gender yet is why Trump won

On topic: my entire family are hardcore, HARD-CORE Trump supporters. I'm not going to "cut off" ties because I find that to be slightly highly unrealistic and also I still live in this house, so

 

[lem0n]

And what is that supposed to mean?

Don't forget that he's your brother, so excuse his racism and the harm he might cause to others.

It means exactly what I said. People have flaws, some bigger than others. My grandfather was a racist but I owe him my life, in more ways than one. I learned not to think like him, which is what matters. Most holier than thou gaffers will say cut them off and never talk again, but fuck that.

 

[Astral Dog]

Sometimes you cant have family members on pedestals, because they will crush your spirit and your will to live. I learned this lesson the hard way with my mother and brothers and many people do eventually as a part of growing up.

Just try to be in peace with yourself

 

[Korey]

I think you're misusing the phrase

People saying that people need to call babies babyself rather than he/she because they haven't chosen their gender yet is why Trump won

On topic: my entire family are hardcore, HARD-CORE Trump supporters. I'm not going to "cut off" ties because I find that to be slightly highly unrealistic and also I still live in this house, so

Basically you're justifying it because you still depend on them. Which is fine, but why not just be honest.

If you weren't living with them, cutting them off would be easy af.

Family is a privilege, not a right. Keep family that deserve to be family.

 

[royalan]

It means exactly what I said. People have flaws, some bigger than others. My grandfather was a racist but I owe him my life, in more ways than one. I learned not to think like him, which is what matters. Most holier than thou gaffers will say cut them off and never talk again, but fuck that.

It has nothing to do with being holier than thou, and everything to do with practicing what you preach.

The annoying thinking in this thread seems to be that the posters saying that OP should confront his brother and/or cut him out are speaking from place of privilege. That we don't know what it's like to make these hard decisions and compromise.

Family is a privilege, not a right. Keep family that deserve to be family.

Whew Lord Jesus if this has not been THE lesson of my adult life.

 

[tearsintherain]

It means exactly what I said. People have flaws, some bigger than others. My grandfather was a racist but I owe him my life, in more ways than one. I learned not to think like him, which is what matters. Most holier than thou gaffers will say cut them off and never talk again, but fuck that.

Agree with this. Its weird this attitude on gaf that if someone has any flaws (big flaws, granted) that the best thing is to cut them off.

Sometimes thats true, sure.

I don't think having relatives who are racist, sexist, etc is that big a deal. I know thats a crazy attitude on GAF but how they think and act don't really impact me. My wife is asian (and therefore my kids are too) and I've had an aunt or two who were pretty racist to her. I told them that if they keep talking like that we won't come around to see them and they aren't welcome to visit, but otherwise I don't care what they think or do. Over time they have all changed their minds. Or just don't talk to me about it anymore, either way that works.

Your call, but maybe learning to deal with people in something other than absolutes is a valuable life skill. Just let him know you disagree with him politically and you don't ever want to talk politics with him. There are a million other things to talk about in life, and as long as he doesn't hurt you or your loved ones then who are you to dictate his beliefs and philosophies.

 

[Merchandise]

Basically you're justifying it because you still depend on them. Which is fine, but why not just be honest.

If you weren't living with them, cutting them off would be easy af.

Family is a privilege, not a right. Keep family that deserve to be family.

I mean, yeah, I guess. While I was at school I very rarely talked to them. But let's also be honest here, if I'm going to cut my family out of my life it's not going to be for something as trivial as them liking Trump. I have a severely dysfunctional family.

 

[lem0n]

It has nothing to do with being holier than thou, and everything to do with practicing what you preach.

The annoying thinking in this thread seems to be that the posters saying that OP should confront his brother and/or cut him out are speaking from place of privilege. That we don't know what it's like to make these hard decisions and compromise.



Whew Lord Jesus if this has not been THE lesson of my adult life.

Everyone's individual situations are different. If you knew what my grandfather did for me, he MORE than deserves to be family.

 

[royalan]

Agree with this. Its weird this attitude on gaf that if someone has any flaws (big flaws, granted) that the best thing is to cut them off.

Sometimes thats true, sure.

I don't think having relatives who are racist, sexist, etc is that big a deal. I know thats a crazy attitude on GAF but how they think and act don't really impact me. My wife is asian (and therefore my kids are too) and I've had an aunt or two who were pretty racist to her. I told them that if they keep talking like that we won't come around to see them and they aren't welcome to visit, but otherwise I don't care what they think or do. Over time they have all changed their minds. Or just don't talk to me about it anymore, either way that works.

Your call, but maybe learning to deal with people in something other than absolutes is a valuable life skill. Just let him know you disagree with him politically and you don't ever want to talk politics with him. There are a million other things to talk about in life, and as long as he doesn't hurt you or your loved ones then who are you to dictate his beliefs and philosophies.

Huh? How are you in disagreement then? You did exactly what I'm advocating. Exactly what I had to do with my own grandmother. You didn't just sit in silent disagreement. You let your family know in no uncertain terms that there were standards for who you'd allow in your life. That's exactly what most of us are saying.

 

[sensui-tomo]

Yea, you also have to move out. Which usually happens automatically at 18 years old.

Ha you're very very funny to think that 18 year olds move out like that.

 

[fester]

In what universe is it easy, much less better, to remove your brother from your life?

In any sane universe?

Just because a person is related to you does not mean you are obligated to put up with their bullshit. I'm not about to spend my short life surrounded by shitty people, especially when I had no say in the matter originally.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Agree with this. Its weird this attitude on gaf that if someone has any flaws (big flaws, granted) that the best thing is to cut them off.

Sometimes thats true, sure.

I don't think having relatives who are racist, sexist, etc is that big a deal. I know thats a crazy attitude on GAF but how they think and act don't really impact me. My wife is asian (and therefore my kids are too) and I've had an aunt or two who were pretty racist to her. I told them that if they keep talking like that we won't come around to see them and they aren't welcome to visit, but otherwise I don't care what they think or do. Over time they have all changed their minds. Or just don't talk to me about it anymore, either way that works.

Your call, but maybe learning to deal with people in something other than absolutes is a valuable life skill. Just let him know you disagree with him politically and you don't ever want to talk politics with him. There are a million other things to talk about in life, and as long as he doesn't hurt you or your loved ones then who are you to dictate his beliefs and philosophies.

Hope your aunts don't/didn't have jobs that affect the lives of minorities at all.

 

[excelsiorlef]

While it's shitty he's that ignorant, don't forget he's your brother.

No.

Blood relation doesn't make racism and hate tolerable

I think you're misusing the phrase

People saying that people need to call babies babyself rather than he/she because they haven't chosen their gender yet is why Trump won

On topic: my entire family are hardcore, HARD-CORE Trump supporters. I'm not going to "cut off" ties because I find that to be slightly highly unrealistic and also I still live in this house, so

Yes

A tiny 0.0003% of people who say babyself is much more of an influential than remaining silent about the vast social, cultural and institutional racism in the US.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Dp

 

[Psychoward]

I think you're misusing the phrase

People saying that people need to call babies babyself rather than he/she because they haven't chosen their gender yet is why Trump won

On topic: my entire family are hardcore, HARD-CORE Trump supporters. I'm not going to "cut off" ties because I find that to be slightly highly unrealistic and also I still live in this house, so

I consider myself very liberal in pretty much all aspects of life and have literally never heard the term babyself until you brought it up. Stop making stuff up (the reason that Trump won, not the term).

 

[Merchandise]

I consider myself very liberal in pretty much all aspects of life and have literally never heard the term babyself until you brought it up. Stop making stuff up (the reason that Trump won, not the term).

I mean, I'm not making it up though lol

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean, I'm not making it up though lol

Congrats... the amount of people who say it is probably the equivalent of the amount of people who think Rachel Dolezal is actually black.


Meanwhile you openly admit your entire family is racist... and racism is preventlant in probably nearly a majority of families and silence against it just lets it grow.

 

[SkeptiMism]

In any sane universe?

Just because a person is related to you does not mean you are obligated to put up with their bullshit. I'm not about to spend my short life surrounded by shitty people, especially when I had no say in the matter originally.

If you aren't a minority yourself, I'd say it's fair to expect you to at least try to be a better influence. If you don't even try, you're basically complicit in minorities experiencing the bullshit aren't you?

This expectation obviously doesn't apply to minorities because it shouldn't be the victim's responsibility to fight bigotry.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It means exactly what I said. People have flaws, some bigger than others. My grandfather was a racist but I owe him my life, in more ways than one. I learned not to think like him, which is what matters. Most holier than thou gaffers will say cut them off and never talk again, but fuck that.

Would you be saying the same thing if we were talking about Muslim extremism?

Why is racism treated as less dangerous by white people?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Would you be saying the same thing if we were talking about Muslim extremism?

Why is racism treated as less dangerous by white people?

Well

Agree with this. Its weird this attitude on gaf that if someone has any flaws (big flaws, granted) that the best thing is to cut them off.

Sometimes thats true, sure.

I don't think having relatives who are racist, sexist, etc is that big a deal. I know thats a crazy attitude on GAF but how they think and act don't really impact me. My wife is asian (and therefore my kids are too) and I've had an aunt or two who were pretty racist to her. I told them that if they keep talking like that we won't come around to see them and they aren't welcome to visit, but otherwise I don't care what they think or do. Over time they have all changed their minds. Or just don't talk to me about it anymore, either way that works.

Your call, but maybe learning to deal with people in something other than absolutes is a valuable life skill. Just let him know you disagree with him politically and you don't ever want to talk politics with him. There are a million other things to talk about in life, and as long as he doesn't hurt you or your loved ones then who are you to dictate his beliefs and philosophies.

When being indifferent to racism because it doesn't affect you is treated as a virtue and all the minorities are weird for caring, this is what we get

 

[jdstorm]

My problem is I simply don't know enough numbers/counterpoints to counteract whatever BS my younger brother says "The majority of crimes are committed by black people. That's from FBI statistics." I mean I guess for that one I could guess the real issue is poorer people are more likely to commit crimes so we should be working to improve racial equality, but then he would say something back and it would never end.

Like, at some point the onus shouldn't be on me as a decent person to have a mental record of every bogus alt right talking point and fake news and how to respond, should it? But I'm also not sure "that's awful because it's racist" is enough?

Often its better to question then counterpunch while modeling positive behavior. Set your boundaries and push back against negative views, but remember that ultimately what you want is for your brother to come to fully think through his oppinions and have justified origional answers rather then to just repeat propoganda he heard on fox news.

For instance ask lots of Why questions.

Ie why do you think insert group has a higher insert negative statistic?

After he answers continue to ask humanising questions and try to find comonalities between himself and the group he is disparaging.

IE do you think there could be any other factors that lead to this?

Is there any situation where you could see yourself acting like this ect?

How would you feel if X happend to someone you were close to? Ect

 

[lem0n]

Would you be saying the same thing if we were talking about Muslim extremism?

Why is racism treated as less dangerous by white people?

Edit: know what? I'm not even gonna bother

 

[Psychoward]

I mean, I'm not making it up though lol

You absolutely are. If there was a national poll right now of Trump voters - do you think even 15% of them would have heard of that term let alone have it be the main factor in deciding to vote Trump?

 

[Psychoward]

Edit: know what? I'm not even gonna bother

A commendable, well thought-out response by a staunch defender of civil rights and equality. Amen.

 

[HiredN00bs]

In what universe is it easy, much less better, to remove your brother from your life?

thisisneogif.gaf

 

[Merchandise]

You absolutely are. If there was a national poll right now of Trump voters - do you think even 15% of them would have heard of that term let alone have it be the main factor in deciding to vote Trump?

I think you took the example a little too seriously.

 

[Psychoward]

I think you took the example a little too seriously.

I don't think so. If you took another poll and you labelled the factor "PC culture" it still wouldn't overtake racism, xenophobia or pure policy ignorance.