Jimnymebob
Member
He basically kills himself though. He attacks, you shoot him, press R1, and do that another 3 or so times. You're more likely to get screwed by the tombstones in the arena than you are by him himself.
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The start of Bloodborne and how it's freaking awful
- Thread starter Wamb0wneD
- Start date
He basically kills himself though. He attacks, you shoot him, press R1, and do that another 3 or so times. You're more likely to get screwed by the tombstones in the arena than you are by him himself.
Spieler Eins
Member
I only found his monster form sometimes problematic.
Reduced damage from enemies, maybe make your attacks stronger too. Pretty simple stuff, without messing up with the core game.
Randall365
Member
His monster form destroyed me every time. He was always just too fast and too aggressive. Never managed to solo him.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I love this game. It's all about baiting. I would bait and use my axe while it's extended. Dodging is like side stepping out of the way.
I also did the forward jumping heavy attack once I got enough room.
I also did the forward jumping heavy attack once I got enough room.
Sounds like a nightmare. Not even talking about the difficulty but that World Tendency BS.
I didn't say "I keep dying, this is bad design!" My problem isn't that I need to adjust to the combat mechanics or that I die a lot, the problem is what the results of that death are. If you don't find that not so obvious shortcut to circumvent the corrdior it gets tedious af.
Compared to DS this is needlessly punishing for sure. Maybe DS is considered a piece of cake game now idk, but the challenge i had against the Asylum Demon was way more tolerable than the start of BB, even when I died 10 times.
Maybe that's because the bonfire was right before the bossfight and I didn't have to run through 15+ enemies over and over again without the ability to invest the xp i get from running through them. It's way more frustrating to me.
New Londo ruins had even more unforgiving enemies than the skeletons, and the Valley of Drakes was full of enemies that oneshot you, not to mention Havel. Blighttown maybe yeah.
Melchiah
Member
It was very hard on my first playthrough, but you can cheese him with molotovs. It's also better to use the upper area for the last phase of the fight, as there's less risk of getting stuck with the tombstones. The beast form became much more manageable on my second playthrough, when I learned to parry him. The parry method makes many other bosses easier as well.
Randall365
Member
Throughout all the Souls games I have never liked parrying. I can do it (maybe not well enough you may say), but the risk/reward is off for me. I have always preferred the dodge/counterattack.
I think this is what I would say to OP - you can spend hours upon hours clearing out that alleyway - or you can just clear out the manageable parts, get to the point where you can level and improve your weapon and clear the rest later. If you don't find the former fun, then by all means try the latter. Trying to clear out an area and restarting often and learning enemy placements is always more fun (for me) when you are levelling and it is getting a bit easier each time.
A big factor in this is the lack of an estus flask. I decided early on that I would not use blood vials at all except for bosses. In my view this does mean that you have to avoid more encounters - especially where you are outnumbered.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
World Tendency is an obtuse and weird mechanic, but it only affects optional areas. So no, it's not a "nightmare" whatsoever. I just mentioned it because people complaining about the very-streamlined Bloodborne are frankly comical.
That is literally the crux of your OP, dude.
So... stop dying
I'm serious, if you keep dying that often the problem is with you, not the game or its bonfire placement
...You died 10 times to the Asylum Demon?
Havel isn't in the Valley of Drakes, and plenty of new players DID pick the Master Key (I didn't and would advise against it, but a lot of new players did anyway) and it was a common complain/criticism about Dark Souls. I don't remotely agree with it, but clearly, neither do you, so you can see why people find your complaints kind of... trite.
Melchiah
Member
I can't do it in DS3. That, and being accustomed to BB's combat mechanics, made some of the fast and aggressive bossses in DS3 very hard for me. I had to rely on NPC co-op partners there, unlike in BB. The parry method made some of the later BB bosses, like
Logarius and Maria
joecanada
Member
Exactly. They should not change at all .... Most of the arguments about bad design itt boil down to "it was too hard" . The physical distances are not long if you run and the fights aren't long if you parry, which btw I suck at .... So in the end people are generally impatient and want the game to be easier . I quit at ailing Loran since ebretias kept one shotting me but that was my own limit.... I certainly don't expect them to make it easier on me. Part of the immersion is just waking up and being thrown straight in the fire. If it's not the game for you so be it but they shouldn't change "design" to make it easier and I suspect they won't ever do so. It does kind of open the door for a souls-lite game though
Matrix XII
Member
I still get nightmares about the beginning of Demons Souls.. *shudders*
Dirk Benedict
Member
If there is anything you have trouble with or if you want to know something specific, don't hesitate.
Use this if you are not already: http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Bloodborne+Wiki
PeskyToaster
Member
Bloodborne was my first Souls game. Thought it was excellent, best game of the generation so far. Might not be for everyone but that doesn't mean it's bad. It makes it better tbh.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Nightmares? And here I am, feeling so nostalgic and wishing I could re-experience it for the first time... finding those shortcuts back to the Phalanx gate were such rewarding moments.
Bloodporne
Member
That's assuming new players have the steady hand for that timing during his first phase. He's also incredibly intimidating and aggressive in
his second phase
I think this is the same conversation in every Souls related thread though. Some people find boss XYZ to be "piss easy" while others think it's the hardest shit ever. I had beaten Demon's and Dark Souls prior to playing Bloodborne and I found Father G extremely difficult and I just can't imagine most new players finding him to be at least challenging.
crabhammer
Member
I remember the first time I popped bloodborne in I ran through that first area, murdering everything then took down the cleric beast in one try. Didn't die once in that first run.
Then I watched my roommate try it and he spent like two hours dying to that same gauntlet that I breezed through. I think the difference was his level of aggression. I went in trying to mow dudes down and he was trying to play it safe. Maybe that's your problem? You gotta do shit in Bloodborne that you wouldn't dream of doing in a first play though of a souls game.
Then I watched my roommate try it and he spent like two hours dying to that same gauntlet that I breezed through. I think the difference was his level of aggression. I went in trying to mow dudes down and he was trying to play it safe. Maybe that's your problem? You gotta do shit in Bloodborne that you wouldn't dream of doing in a first play though of a souls game.
Randall365
Member
The boss run adds pressure too.
I beat Nameless King at the weekend on around my fourth/fifth go on DS3 and he is apparently a very tricky boss. As you can see from my posts above, I am not a brilliant Souls player and will always favour levelling/upgrading my weapon wherever possible. Yet the fact that you are in that battle within 30 seconds or so of a death change the dynamics for me.
To go through the Father G boss run, get him on to his third phase AND THEN press the parry button when I know that if the timing is off, he will eviscerate me - that takes courage I don't have! I would far rather roll and take a little damage - probably why I never beat him on my own. Father G and Kos - they were the ones I could never handle.
Soul of the Beast
Member
Did you get past the first boss OP?
Feel free to ask anything. Good luck.
Also, you don't need to see the first boss to level up, as long as you gain your first insight (the eye sympol on the top right of your screen, right under your blood echoes.) it will trigger the doll in Hunter's Dream to wake up, which allows you to level up.
Seeing a boss for the first time and killing the boss will gain you some insight, however, poping a item called Madman's Knowledge will also give you insight.
There are two of these near the sewer area, which you can access before getting to any boss, if you want to level up some more before you get to the boss then you should totally look for them. Beware the monsters in the sewer though.
Feel free to ask anything. Good luck.
Also, you don't need to see the first boss to level up, as long as you gain your first insight (the eye sympol on the top right of your screen, right under your blood echoes.) it will trigger the doll in Hunter's Dream to wake up, which allows you to level up.
Seeing a boss for the first time and killing the boss will gain you some insight, however, poping a item called Madman's Knowledge will also give you insight.
There are two of these near the sewer area, which you can access before getting to any boss, if you want to level up some more before you get to the boss then you should totally look for them. Beware the monsters in the sewer though.
Struggle and surmount. That's the essence of all soulsborne games. They are never THAT hard, you just have to learn what the game is teaching you. This isn't Megaman where you need pixel perfect precision and lightning fast reaction times. You just need patience, perseverance and a release of the natural preservation of your life.
It's not bad design to make the first level challenging. If people bounce off that's ok. It only makes the enjoyment more satisfying for those that overcome. Again it's not a hard game, it's an unforgiving game.
People get defensive about Soulsborne and shout Git Gud when someone comes out and complains that the game doesn't play but other game's rules. Had OP came out and said, look I'm struggling and need help getting past the first area the thread would have gone lot different.
The Futurist
Member
Going to have to agree with the people saying "git gud"
I didn't find it overly difficult, especially considering how agile your character is.
I really enjoyed it, but people here like to go overboard about it. Coming from the souls games, it was far too linear.
Great art style, but technically terrible graphics are performance.
I didn't find it overly difficult, especially considering how agile your character is.
I really enjoyed it, but people here like to go overboard about it. Coming from the souls games, it was far too linear.
Great art style, but technically terrible graphics are performance.
I just replayed up to Gascoigne(about 25 min) and I have no idea whats with the complaints. I'm horrible at the game and yet only died once getting to him.
There were so many times where I had close to no health but survived due to the awesome rally system returning my health. Its also so incredibly satisfying to do viceral attacks.
Unfortunately Gascoigne killed me at half HP.
Op, are you even getting viceral kills? Almost every enemy will go down with 1-2 hits. If you get the hang of it, the next boss will be a joke.
There were so many times where I had close to no health but survived due to the awesome rally system returning my health. Its also so incredibly satisfying to do viceral attacks.
Unfortunately Gascoigne killed me at half HP.
Op, are you even getting viceral kills? Almost every enemy will go down with 1-2 hits. If you get the hang of it, the next boss will be a joke.
I'm in a similar position to the OP except I haven't played any Souls games before so Bloodborne is my first experience. I went in to it completely fresh and I've played it in fits and starts since. Not the best way to play no doubt and I haven't progressed much (which is frustrating) but crucially I've enjoyed the combat so that has kept me interested in continuing with the game.
The first few hours were spent dying over and over again at that first Wolf and then the courtyard full of enemies around the bonfire. It was only when I cleared up to the two wolves on the bridge that I decided to look at how a more seasoned player dealt with the opening section, which was eye-opening. It was through that video I found out about interrupting attacks, backstabs, what insight does and some of those shortcuts I missed.
I've now cleared the sewers and levelled up a few times. That's what I'd recommend for the OP. Open the gate to the left of the lantern so you can skip to the sewers while facing fewer enemies. Find the item which gives you insight and then level up to your heart's content.
And also work on the parry/interrupt. That worked wonders for me to the point that the fat guys with bricks no longer pose a problem. There's a perfect place to practice as there's two of them patrolling in a section near the sewers not too far from the lantern. I mainly get done in now when I mess up the timing on it which is fair. I've also made judicious use of the blood vials. There doesn't seem to be a point in stocking up when enemies seem to drop them frequently.
Also I'm now at the point where I run through that courtyard of enemies for fun (there's a path through it that makes it really straightforward) so while I haven't progressed much in terms of new locations I do feel I'm getting better at the game.
I think I'll keep chipping away at it like I am and then do a proper run through where I'm actually paying attention to the story.
The first few hours were spent dying over and over again at that first Wolf and then the courtyard full of enemies around the bonfire. It was only when I cleared up to the two wolves on the bridge that I decided to look at how a more seasoned player dealt with the opening section, which was eye-opening. It was through that video I found out about interrupting attacks, backstabs, what insight does and some of those shortcuts I missed.
I've now cleared the sewers and levelled up a few times. That's what I'd recommend for the OP. Open the gate to the left of the lantern so you can skip to the sewers while facing fewer enemies. Find the item which gives you insight and then level up to your heart's content.
And also work on the parry/interrupt. That worked wonders for me to the point that the fat guys with bricks no longer pose a problem. There's a perfect place to practice as there's two of them patrolling in a section near the sewers not too far from the lantern. I mainly get done in now when I mess up the timing on it which is fair. I've also made judicious use of the blood vials. There doesn't seem to be a point in stocking up when enemies seem to drop them frequently.
Also I'm now at the point where I run through that courtyard of enemies for fun (there's a path through it that makes it really straightforward) so while I haven't progressed much in terms of new locations I do feel I'm getting better at the game.
I think I'll keep chipping away at it like I am and then do a proper run through where I'm actually paying attention to the story.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
We might disagree about the first level then. To me a hard game should if anything, get harder as you go. Have a first section that bring a player in, gets them invested and then have the difficulty increase, to me that usually gets people more willing to continue playing it. But to have a game be the apparent hardest at the start, isn't a GREAT idea.
I feel like no matter how you approach talking about a Soulsgame, if you don't have 100% positive or have issues with the game you will get a ton of git gud comments. I mean there are people who actually will try and help people, there are some in this thread. But a lot of the comments rag on the person for not being good enough and basically shouting that there are no flaws in these games. You can really enjoy something, even when it's flawed.
It is no where near hardest at the start.
DeathbyCheerios
Member
I have had numerous people tell me that if you can get past the first part of the game, it gets easier and much more enjoyable.
Randall365
Member
I just replayed up to Gascoigne(about 25 min) and I have no idea whats with the complaints. I'm horrible at the game and yet only died once getting to him.
There were so many times where I had close to no health but survived due to the awesome rally system returning my health. Its also so incredibly satisfying to do viceral attacks.
Unfortunately Gascoigne killed me at half HP.
Op, are you even getting viceral kills? Almost every enemy will go down with 1-2 hits. If you get the hang of it, the next boss will be a joke.
How many hours have you put into Bloodborne?
Uno Venova
Banned
Probably because they've gotten better as players as time went on.
To me, Central Yharnam is nothing compared to Forbidden Woods & Nightmare of Mensis.
keltickennedy
Member
Exactly what I was getting at. I was never trying to come across as condescending to OP. Instead of posting something useless like "get gud" which OP complained about earlier... I rather simply stated, don't bother.
And yeah, that first boss in the DLC was a bitch. I started it on NG+ and almost gave up myself, but eventually got through it.
OP. Don't get so defensive. I was merely saying if you think the beginning of Bloodborne is awful, you are going to hate The Old Hunters. It's that simple. The game isn't for everyone. There is nothing "MLG" about it.
That would only be because they understand the combat better or how to exploit enemies. Yharnam will feel like a joke on a second playthrough. While plenty of later bosses and areas, especially the dlc will really test you.
I've played it twice +dlc. Both were just new game. The bosses I couldn't solo were Horsey and Lawrence from the dlc. So yeah, I'm far from a great player.
As someone who's played all the souls games, I disagree. You can't really say "X is more difficult than Y" when it comes to these games. Everyone finds different things to be difficult, that Demon souls intro for example? I found it crazy easy, along with the rest of the game. The only part of bloodborne I found harder was the DLC.
Even Logarius? Ebrietas? Defiled Amygdala?
A lot of people have trouble with Rom as well. Yharnam? Barely remember it.
I did find Demons hard though....quite.
bargeparty
Member
Has anyone mentioned that all weapons have two "modes" and that you can switch between them on the fly to create sort of combos? That might be important. I think I saw some people mention the cane-whip, that will be helpful for keeping stuff at a distance (I exclusively use the cane).
Tip for shortcuts if it wasn't mentioned, look for stuff that might be breakable. I mean the game shows you right from the start after the first lantern that stuff is breakable, I think at least one enemy breaks through boxes right away.
Tip for shortcuts if it wasn't mentioned, look for stuff that might be breakable. I mean the game shows you right from the start after the first lantern that stuff is breakable, I think at least one enemy breaks through boxes right away.
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
difficulty is really different for everyone...
bloodborne is by far the easiest of the bunch, and i don't understand how you can have problems at the beginning, it's not hard, you just have to learn how the to get through things, and the first area is a good way of teaching that....
you can either bait them and kill them one by one, or simply kill some of them and run, plain and simple! You just have to experiment, if that's frustating, i don't know how to help you!
these games have some challenges, but they're not as hard as everybody says, it's just a diffrent way to play, and once you get it, it goes well!
bloodborne is by far the easiest of the bunch, and i don't understand how you can have problems at the beginning, it's not hard, you just have to learn how the to get through things, and the first area is a good way of teaching that....
you can either bait them and kill them one by one, or simply kill some of them and run, plain and simple! You just have to experiment, if that's frustating, i don't know how to help you!
these games have some challenges, but they're not as hard as everybody says, it's just a diffrent way to play, and once you get it, it goes well!
PhantomThief
Banned
Haha
Randall365
Member
You're definitely not a horrible player though to be fair!
I was thinking what you did sounded pretty amazing - I have completed the main game once and the dlc - there is no way I could get up to Father G without dying unless I ran through certain bits.
I disagree. I think it was smart in forcing players to learn how to play the game (aka tutorial area), rather than letting them grind and overpower if they can't do it which teaches bad habits that will bite them later on.
Hang in there the rewards is great especially once you get use to dodging. You are not an undead or whatever it's called like demon souls. You are a hunter, make the mobs fear you instead. Don't play like demon souls, go in dance out of range, go back in hard when there's an opening.
Am I missing something? The argument is that in Bloodborne the critical path towards getting to the meat of the game where you can level is long and obtuse when compared to the much shorter and more linear progression to that same point in the Dark Souls games.
Everyone is talking about being aggressive and getting good, and not addressing that argument at all.
Everyone is talking about being aggressive and getting good, and not addressing that argument at all.
RedAssedApe
Banned
there's definitely a learning curve but i would say that applies to any souls game. a lot of times when you hit new areas or see new enemies its that fear that makes a souls game a souls game.
Just bought this in the PSN sale for £12.99 after being tempted so many times but put off by not liking Dark Souls. I found the opening tricky and torturous at first but loved the atmosphere and setting (big Lovecraft fan) so persevered.
After a lot of:
YOU DIED
YOU DIED
YOU DIED....
I found out how to level up along with my first shortcut gate. Holy Crap am I glad I stuck with it. I get it now, I love it, the shortcuts, the exploration, taking down a boss single handed, even the grinding (if you choose to do it).
The opening section would now seems like it would be pretty easy if I started again and not because I could level, just because the mechanics of the game start making sense. It stops feeling sluggish once you know what you're doing a bit. Every time I play I feel I learn something else, progress a little more, find something new.
Now when I'm greeted with the message YOU DIED, I know it's because I wasn't prepared, over stretched or just cocked up and it even puts a smile on my face.
Advice to anyone is to stick with it and play in a style that feels right to you.
Love it...and Hello GAF, first post .
After a lot of:
YOU DIED
YOU DIED
YOU DIED....
I found out how to level up along with my first shortcut gate. Holy Crap am I glad I stuck with it. I get it now, I love it, the shortcuts, the exploration, taking down a boss single handed, even the grinding (if you choose to do it).
The opening section would now seems like it would be pretty easy if I started again and not because I could level, just because the mechanics of the game start making sense. It stops feeling sluggish once you know what you're doing a bit. Every time I play I feel I learn something else, progress a little more, find something new.
Now when I'm greeted with the message YOU DIED, I know it's because I wasn't prepared, over stretched or just cocked up and it even puts a smile on my face.
Advice to anyone is to stick with it and play in a style that feels right to you.
Love it...and Hello GAF, first post .
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Excellent first post, welcome to GAF!
DoubleTake
Member
Its funny..there's an interview somewhere that has Miyazaki talking about how BB's intro area was so difficult they decided to tone it down a bit in DS3's. Wish they hadnt, and made bonfires less abundant.
BB's starting level is harder than the other Souls games but I think its better for it and by no means badly designed. The game give you the items you need to start leveling up within the level, the combat mechanics are better suited to fight groups of enemies(unlike DS2), and sneaking/running past enemies is always an option to fall back on.
That bonfire with the big wolf with the patrolling enemies, From actually put in a queue for the player to know when they will start moving again so it's possible to consistently sneak by them. There a spot up the stairs on the right where the Bell will ring and the enemies will start moving again, the same way, every time. If you pay attention to these sorts of queues Central Yharnam isnt so tough.
There's a quick route to the shortcut in Central Yharnam near the laughing lady in the house, hidden behind some breakable coffins. Again the game rewards the attentive and curious player, all while giving those who are less so, ample tools to complete it.
The wolves on the bridge? Yes very difficult but again, you could run past. Or guess what, there's an alternate path that will lead you to a madman's knowledge and the shortcut, albeit the route is longer. So the game forces you to make a natural choice concerning progression: Do I fight these two OP wolves or do I take this alternate path? Do I trust my ability with the game mechanics, or am I better off continuing to explore and staying alive longer? That is good game design. The player always has options but nothing is ever spoon fed to them. Not being able to level up to spend your echoes also contributes to the tension the game wants to give off in the first area. It also ties in well with the story for those that actually pay attention to it(you should its amazing).
That they were able to create such an intricate level all around that 1 Lamp is a showcase of excellent design not bad design.
BB's starting level is harder than the other Souls games but I think its better for it and by no means badly designed. The game give you the items you need to start leveling up within the level, the combat mechanics are better suited to fight groups of enemies(unlike DS2), and sneaking/running past enemies is always an option to fall back on.
That bonfire with the big wolf with the patrolling enemies, From actually put in a queue for the player to know when they will start moving again so it's possible to consistently sneak by them. There a spot up the stairs on the right where the Bell will ring and the enemies will start moving again, the same way, every time. If you pay attention to these sorts of queues Central Yharnam isnt so tough.
There's a quick route to the shortcut in Central Yharnam near the laughing lady in the house, hidden behind some breakable coffins. Again the game rewards the attentive and curious player, all while giving those who are less so, ample tools to complete it.
The wolves on the bridge? Yes very difficult but again, you could run past. Or guess what, there's an alternate path that will lead you to a madman's knowledge and the shortcut, albeit the route is longer. So the game forces you to make a natural choice concerning progression: Do I fight these two OP wolves or do I take this alternate path? Do I trust my ability with the game mechanics, or am I better off continuing to explore and staying alive longer? That is good game design. The player always has options but nothing is ever spoon fed to them. Not being able to level up to spend your echoes also contributes to the tension the game wants to give off in the first area. It also ties in well with the story for those that actually pay attention to it(you should its amazing).
That they were able to create such an intricate level all around that 1 Lamp is a showcase of excellent design not bad design.
These games have me trained to play to this priority when starting out:
1. Explore and find the shortcuts...dying doesn't matter
2. Learn everything I can about the level...dying doesn't matter
3. Learn the enemies and how to fight them...and learn my weapons
3. Find the bosses
4. Learn the boss fights solo or helping others in co-op
5. Defeat bosses next section...
1. Explore and find the shortcuts...dying doesn't matter
2. Learn everything I can about the level...dying doesn't matter
3. Learn the enemies and how to fight them...and learn my weapons
3. Find the bosses
4. Learn the boss fights solo or helping others in co-op
5. Defeat bosses next section...
nycgamer4ever
Member
And yet you end your opinionated comment with
"The love that this game gets is absolutely baffling to me. There are other darling games out there like The Witcher 3 which I don't like but at least with Witcher 3 I can say "Hey, its a well made game I can see why people could enjoy it."
I just can't see anything redeeming with Bloodborne."
So only your opinion matters and you can't understand that others might have a different opinion?