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[Resident_UA]

Also fuck Bernie for pretending like he was playing nice guy and then dividing the party. I used to be for Bernie until about April last year when everyone know he would loose, but he kept fighting because Democrats weren't his party so he didn't give a shit. Normally i would not care (I would call myself Independent too), but if you want to blame one single person for Trump winning in my book it's always Bernie over Clinton.

 

[dynamitejim]

You need to be more specific here. Democrats could not find a PRO CORPORATE lapdog (that would appease the donors) of a candidate to replace Hillary. What they DID do is hinder the chances of an anti-corporate candidate, who also happens to be the most well-liked politician in America today. The Democrats apparently could not afford to endorse a candidate promising to fight the influence of money in politics and the corruption in DC. I am talking about how the DNC colluded to deny Sanders a fair shot at the candidacy.

Pretty sure neo-liberal, pro-corporate, centrist Joe Biden is more liked than Sanders. He does better head-to-head against Trump in 2020 polls than Sanders does, too.

 

[pigeon]

I agree with everything you say here.

Great. I appreciate that!

Hopefully then my perspective becomes more clear, although not necessarily more pleasant.

Given the choice between a winning Democratic Party that pretends the moral failing of voting for Donald Trump was no big deal, and a losing Democratic Party that is willing to assert the moral imperative to oppose white supremacy and sexual assault, I will take the latter.

This may seem crazy, but from my perspective, the government may not believe my family has rights, but at least half of America still does. I prefer that to a world where both major parties are willing to endorse and silently accept white supremacy, because in that world it will simply be unchecked. People tend to follow the societal leaders. I want at least a few societal leaders to be focused on making sure I'm still allowed to live in America.

Obviously I would vastly prefer a winning Democratic Party that asserts the moral imperative but also gives everybody Medicare. That's clearly just better. I'm just not convinced that the people who made such a moral choice will somehow gain moral character when we give them free healthcare.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Trump got about 2 million more votes than Romney

Yeah that's my bad, I was thinking about % of the vote. Mea culpa.

 

[Gaogaogao]

Should be titled "I'm Sorry"

what is she sorry for the electoral college?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I replied to that poster about the potential for a movie? Why aren't you quoting the poster I did asking them why they brought up a movie?

Hillary Clinton cannot greenlight and direct a movie on her own, so yes, if it were to happen many cogs may need to give permission for filming/acting and so on. As I said though, if you're asking why I spoke about a movie ask the poster I quoted who was the one who suggested an idea of one.

Because you entertained the idea and somehow connected it to the Democratic party....

 

[El_Tiguere]

WOW! Really? In a year and a half Bernie Bros still didn't bother to read up on what the fuck primary is? It a private event run a by a group of people where they pick who they think represents them the best. It's not democracy in any shape. Bernie as an outsider should thank them for taking him is (ironically the same way as Trump) LOL

Please recognize that the country as a whole is fed up with asshole private groups deciding for us, who should be the one to represent US. Especially corrupt private groups who have served the wealthy (against the interests of +90% of Americans) first, for the last 40 years. The spectacle of this private group shunning the outsider, who the people love, was a HUGE reason why so many Obama voters sat out the 2016 election. The hubris and avarice of your "private group" lost them the election.

You can start there.

On Hillary's health and DNC/HRC collusion... you are simple google searches away that the rest of the world has seen (but magically you haven't). On issues like the Clinton Foundation being a global bribery slush fund, you can start by reading people like charlesortel.com/, or you can read up about their scam in Haiti, including fixing the 2010 election in favor of Haiti's Donald Trump, Michelle Martelly.

The Clintons are macabre power players who are too comfortable hoarding cash for political favors. They are endemic with what is absolutely wrong with US imperialism, and they are the figureheads for the corporate take-over in the 1980's of the Democrat party.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Go to any Bernie thread on GAF and then consider why GAF was a top 5 referrer to her website.

GAF was also a top 5 referral to Sanders site but never let reality get in the way of a good persecution narrative

 

[xxracerxx]

Please recognize that the country as a whole is fed up with asshole private groups deciding for us, who should be the one to represent US. Especially corrupt private groups who have served the wealthy (against the interests of +90% of Americans) first, for the last 40 years. The spectacle of this private group shunning the outsider, who the people love, was a HUGE reason why so many Obama voters sat out the 2016 election. The hubris and avarice of your "private group" lost them the election.

Did you sit out on voting in the election?

 

[mlclmtckr]

Great. I appreciate that!

Hopefully then my perspective becomes more clear, although not necessarily more pleasant.

Given the choice between a winning Democratic Party that pretends the moral failing of voting for Donald Trump was no big deal, and a losing Democratic Party that is willing to assert the moral imperative to oppose white supremacy and sexual assault, I will take the latter.

This may seem crazy, but from my perspective, the government may not believe my family has rights, but at least half of America still does. I prefer that to a world where both major parties are willing to endorse and silently accept white supremacy, because in that world it will simply be unchecked. People tend to follow the societal leaders. I want at least a few societal leaders to be focused on making sure I'm still allowed to live in America.

Obviously I would vastly prefer a winning Democratic Party that asserts the moral imperative but also gives everybody Medicare. That's clearly just better. I'm just not convinced that the people who made such a moral choice will somehow gain moral character when we give them free healthcare.

For me the thing is to actually help people, they need to win elections.

I agree that it is morally questionable to reach out to Trump voters, or to concede social issues to them. I'm not saying the Democrats should move away from their strong message on equality (and I don't think that message is why they lost anyway.)

But turnout was less than 60%, like it has been for the last several elections. There are a lot of people who weren't Trump voters who also didn't vote for Clinton (and a lot of people who were kept from voting by suppression, to be sure, but probably there were more people who chose not to vote.) There are people out there who can be brought on board, who can vote for a progressive candidate if the right candidate reaches out to them.

That's what the Democrats need to do, and they need to change if they're going to do it.

 

[The Technomancer]

Please recognize that the country as a whole is fed up with asshole private groups deciding for us, who should be the one to represent US. Especially corrupt private groups who have served the wealthy (against the interests of +90% of Americans) first, for the last 40 years. The spectacle of this private group shunning the outsider, who the people love, was a HUGE reason why so many Obama voters sat out the 2016 election. The hubris and avarice of your "private group" lost them the election.

The minute you start talking about how your political movement is the one that represents "the people" is the minute my eyes glaze over. Literally every political movement and party thinks they are the one that actually represents the people. But large populations rarely have broad political consensus. Like there's a reason why no democratic nation has a party that consistently gets 80%+ of the vote and firm power.

Fight for political change because you believe it is the more humane way for society to operate.

 

[Resident_UA]

Please recognize that the country as a whole is fed up with asshole private groups deciding for us, who should be the one to represent US. Especially corrupt private groups who have served the wealthy (against the interests of +90% of Americans) first, for the last 40 years. The spectacle of this private group shunning the outsider, who the people love, was a HUGE reason why so many Obama voters sat out the 2016 election. The hubris and avarice of your "private group" lost them the election.

It's how it is. It's just a fact. Sure it's a shitty system. So is electoral college. But you can't agree to participate in this circus and then bitch about the rules later. It's the same way as Clinton can't bitch about loosing electoral college. It's stupid system but she agreed to play by those stupid rules.

 

[Ekai]

The chapters on not leaving major cities, wasting time in lost cause states (like Arizona) and calling a huge percentage of voters deplorable should make good reading. I wonder if she'll take any responsibility at all for those major blunders.

As a minority who directly suffers because of their actions, they are deplorable. That wasn't a lie, at least.
Or a blunder,I should say.

 

[Oemenia]

GAF was also a top 5 referral to Sanders site but never let reality get in the way of a good persecution narrative

I'm sure Hilary would stop being a corporate lapdog if only she knew how much GAF loves her.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm sure Hilary would stop being a corporate lapdog if only she knew how much GAF loves her.

So you got nothing... cool

 

[Audioboxer]

Because you entertained the idea and somehow connected it to the Democratic party....

And Hillary Clinton was connected to the Democrats was she not? Filming a movie isn't the exact same as writing a book. Unless you just mean a film of her sitting for 2 hours in a room being interviewed. That's then more an interview than a movie. As I said the other poster brought it up. It's not going to happen anyway. At least I'm 99% sure.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Good way for Hilldawg to make bank, but it's not likely to add much to the conversation that "Shattered", the eventual Mueller investigation results, and that recent Trump/Bannon book did not.

 

[Ekai]

Also fuck Bernie for pretending like he was playing nice guy and then dividing the party. I used to be for Bernie until about April last year when everyone know he would loose, but he kept fighting because Democrats weren't his party so he didn't give a shit. Normally i would not care (I would call myself Independent too), but if you want to blame one single person for Trump winning in my book it's always Bernie over Clinton.

As a leftist who preferred Bernie in the primary, I can't stand shit like this. Reigniting the primary and blaming a man who did no such thing but rather presented an alternative leftist option for what happened is ridiculous. Especially since his supporters turned out in greater numbers for her than hers ever did for Obama. Frickin centrists.

 

[Bolivar687]

The 2020 race has now officially begun.

 

[excelsiorlef]

And Hillary Clinton was connected to the Democrats was she not? Filming a movie isn't the exact same as writing a book. Unless you just mean a film of her sitting for 2 hours in a room being interviewed. That's then more an interview than a movie. Anyway, as I said the other poster brought it up. It's not going to happen anyway. At least I'm 99% sure.

As a private citizen she'd greenlight a movie not the Democratic party

And if you know it's not happening why did you go on and on and start talking about how you'd have to fire Democrats who greenlit it?

 

[Kinyou]

The 2020 race has now officially begun.

It's a wacky race!

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

As a leftist who preferred Bernie in the primary, I can't stand shit like this. Reigniting the primary and blaming a man who did no such thing but rather presented an alternative leftist option for what happened is ridiculous. Especially since his supporters turned out in greater numbers for her than hers ever did for Obama. Frickin centrists.

I'd be interested to see how the grassroots split between those who backed Obama in 2008 and those who backed Hillary in 2016 compared to those who backed Hillary both times

 

[Cranster]

Eh, that's an issue you have to contend with. Get people to want to vote for you next time.

One campaign is under multiple investigations for coluding with russia to interfere with the elections. You should keep that in mind.

 

[pigeon]

As a leftist who preferred Bernie in the primary, I can't stand shit like this. Reigniting the primary and blaming a man who did no such thing but rather presented an alternative leftist option for what happened is ridiculous. Especially since his supporters turned out in greater numbers for her than hers ever did for Obama. Frickin centrists.

Good post. People need to stop blaming Bernie. The primary was frustrating for everybody, but Bernie worked hard to get Hillary elected, and he's working hard for the Democrats now.

 

[JWiLL]

"But it's time to let my guard down" she wrote, on her 27th revision.

 

[Ekai]

Absolutely not. Both sides do this shit, and the poster a couple pages back who talked about "Shillary" got rightfully called out.

(I did post about "yas queen'ers" the other day, but I was referring to specific posters in a thread who actually did post numerous "yas queen" posts in 2016).

Anyway, generalizing about progressive Dems being a bunch of young white men who don't care about social issues has got to stop. It disregards/disenfranchises those of us who don't fall into that category but do feel strongly about certain issues.



And you generalizing the far left with ridiculous stereotypes, as the alt-right generalizes the entire left, differentiates you from them? Come on now.

For some it's a past time to attack the left and deny the existence of minorities fighting there/those who care about social issues. It's really not worth hashing it out. This is all tired old stuff and the party would be better spent working together. I realize it's a hypocritical message given my centrist comment. I'm just so tired. And scared so...eh.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

The Shillary cult's last line of defence is now in place.

Let's give her chance.

Third time may finally when she learns how to be a good loser.

I'm sure she read them at least once.
Are you sure, because people might finally get how amazing she is.

Go to any Bernie thread on GAF and then consider why GAF was a top 5 referrer to her website.

I'm sure Hilary would stop being a corporate lapdog if only she knew how much GAF loves her.

Why are you even here other than to just troll?

The 2020 race has now officially begun.

Please tell me you don't actually think this is an attempt to shore up a 2020 run. She isn't running man.

 

[excelsiorlef]

"But it's time to let my guard down" she wrote, on her 27th revision.

Yes most books have a ton of revisions

 

[Resident_UA]

As a leftist who preferred Bernie in the primary, I can't stand shit like this. Reigniting the primary and blaming a man who did no such thing but rather presented an alternative leftist option for what happened is ridiculous. Especially since his supporters turned out in greater numbers for her than hers ever did for Obama. Frickin centrists.

I preferred Bernie too, so what? I'm not sure what your point is. When he stayed in at the point where he should have dropped out that's when I realized that he doesn't actually care about his policies as much as he cares about attention.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Good post. People need to stop blaming Bernie. The primary was frustrating for everybody, but Bernie worked hard to get Hillary elected, and he's working hard for the Democrats now.

I agree. One could argue Bernie stayed in much too long, but ultimately, he prob saw it as his one shot to make a permanent Leftist foothold in the DNC and thought Hillary was a shoo-in, like most people on all sides of the political spectrum did.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Obviously I want to win in 2020, but a small part of me is interested to see a scenario where Democrats have the "perfect" candidate with the "perfect" campaign by anti-Hilary people's standards, and still lost to this country's racism and idiocy. Just to see what they would say.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

I preferred Bernie too, so what? I'm not sure what your point is. When he stayed in at the point where he should have dropped out that's when I realized that he doesn't actually care about his policies as much as he cares about attention.

Alternatively, he was a man of principle who sensed an opportunity to carve something genuinely good for all americans and didn't want to give up the dream to a Wall St front.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I agree. One could argue Bernie stayed in much too long, but ultimately, he prob saw it as his one shot to make a permanent Leftist foothold in the DNC and thought Hillary was a shoo-in, like most people on all sides of the political spectrum did.

Yep, and it worked. We ended up getting one of the most progressive party platforms out of it.

 

[Ekai]

I preferred Bernie too, so what? I'm not sure what your point is. When he stayed in at the point where he should have dropped out that's when I realized that he doesn't actually care about his policies as much as he cares about attention.

His direct actions do not at all support your claims. Dude did what he could.

 

[Resident_UA]

Alternatively, he was a man of principle who sensed an opportunity to carve something genuinely good for all americans and didn't want to give up the dream to a Wall St front.

I don't believe this for a second. I mean he would get divorced by this point if he was a "man of principle". I do believe that he thinks his policies are good, but I don't believe that he would fight for them as hard as he pretends he would. He has to know that there's always need to compromise.

 

[Oemenia]

I preferred Bernie too, so what? I'm not sure what your point is. When he stayed in at the point where he should have dropped out that's when I realized that he doesn't actually care about his policies as much as he cares about attention.

Key difference is that he had a reason to fight, people ACTUALLY liked him.

 

[xxracerxx]

His direct actions do not at all support your claims. Dude did what he could.

The problem was some of his supporters not actually listening to his endorsement of Clinton.

 

[pigeon]

The problem was some of his supporters not actually listening to his endorsement of Clinton.

Yeah, but it seems wrong to blame that on Bernie.

If anything, it shows that Bernie really did activate some voters who otherwise weren't ever going to vote for Democrats.

 

[Resident_UA]

Key difference is that he had a reason to fight, people ACTUALLY liked him.

People REALLY like Trump...

 

[Oemenia]

People REALLY like Trump...

Can't be said for Hillary though.

 

[celljean89]

The title of the book kinda sucks, but hey I get it. The book title is going to get a lot of people attention. I just hope the cover of her book, is a photo of her shrugging.

 

[Ekai]

The problem was some of his supporters not actually listening to his endorsement of Clinton.

The numbers indicate that the fear it was a lot of his supporters is widely exaggerated. There was even a topic on gaf about how many of his supporters switched to her. It's a loud outlier you are concerning yourself with.

 

[Audioboxer]

As a private citizen she'd greenlight a movie not the Democratic party

And if you know it's not happening why did you go on and on and start talking about how you'd have to fire Democrats who greenlit it?

To share my overall thoughts as to me a movie would probably reinact part of the campaign or want to involve the WH/officials. Why are you getting so bogged down on hypotheticals about a movie? Is it because I thought it was a terrible idea? If so just say that. I still think it's a terrible idea to create a movie about losing a political campaign and putting it on the big screens like it's some historical masterpiece to let your kids see a campaign that wasn't successful. As I said, it would just be likely to damage the Dems public image and give a ton of fodder for the opposition to mock.

Who else has gotten Hollywood involved to make a movie about a campaign loss? I can't think of anyone. I don't even think Obama got a movie after making history? (other than what were probably straight to TV documentaries) Then again I can't even think of anyone who has had a book written about a loss, just autobiographies that may include paragraphs about campaigns. As you'll likely say as a private citizen she can create a book on whatever she wants, and yes, that's true and fine, what I said about that is in my earlier posts. The book is likely to reignite 2016 all over again at the end of 2017 and probably into 2018 with arguing, bickering and so on. I personally think it's bad timing as no, it's not Hillary's time to be back in the spotlight. Dems need a party refocus and fresh candidate plans, not to be bogged down with 2016 bickering again. An autobiography nearer 2020 when Dems aren't in rubble or better yet when Republicans are out of power? Go wild. A year later during turmoil, eh, you're going to get criticism for your timing Hillary.

 

[Resident_UA]

Can't be said for Hillary though.

Yeah. And this idea of liking politicians has pissed me off since 2004...

 

[xxracerxx]

The numbers indicate that the fear it was a lot of his supporters is widely exaggerated. There was even a topic on gaf about how many of his supporters switched to her. It's a loud outlier you are concerning yourself with.

I am not worried about it, I just said some. I feel like if he had thrown his support behind her earlier though would have been better in the long run.

 

[Ekai]

As for the book at hand, I'm not 100% her biggest fan but I will be interested in checking it out.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Title reminds me of a morning after a night of heavy drinking.

 

[Oemenia]

Yeah. And this idea of liking politicians has pissed me off since 2004...

To win an election, you need to be a good candidate that people support.

Rigging also helps.

 

[Ekai]

Title reminds me of a morning after a night of heavy drinking.

Some may have had mornings like that after the results.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

To win an election, you need to be a good candidate that people support.

Rigging also helps.

Trump wasn't a good candidate. It just happened to not matter. Funny that.