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[staticneuron]

I'm not really frustrated. I understand this is an alpha. I've seen development of Project CARS 1 and 2 through WMD and I've (recently) started developing my own games. I understand the oddities of game creation. I'm not in the vaporware bandwagon or anything like that. I guess people are used to that around here and jump at similar speech fast.

I've had this clipping problem (with the Mustang) since the PU was introduced (two years now?), but that's not really the issue. The issue is that I haven't seen any real advancement in that time frame. Last year showcase was technically amazing, ground breaking, but I judge my games out of the builds I play, not out of videos. In this time I've been playing Project CARS 2, with daily builds, and seen it go from basically Project CARS 1 to a whole new game (as ambitious as it gets for a racing sim).

So, basically my opinion is that trust by backers is mostly based on faith and a desire for everything to turn out great (this last one I share), not on progress. Which is fine, I guess? When 3.0 hits I will download the game again and try it. If it works, great, I will play it some. if it doesn't, I will continue waiting until the next big milestone or the game is released to pass judgement.

Advancement in that particular ship or are you saying you haven't noticed the advancements of the PU in general since 2.0? The is ship is obvious. There has been no advancement simply because they have not worked on ship. Priority lends to other gameplay elements. But if you are saying you haven't noticed any content or gameplay features added since 2.0, that is a different discussion all together.

Over trying to say "they should do this", I'll ask the question :

What would be the downside of them sharing a conservative release forecasts in addition to what they currently do ?

The only downside I personally see is that the initial announcement of all the big release would have been received with less hype.
The benefits I see : most release wouldn't have felt like the result of consecutive delays, with a couple of exception where we might have had a few early release compared to what was expected ( or that time would have been taken by CIG for more polishing or to limit/avoid their crunch time which seemed pretty frightening at times ).

It is because of this

was this already posted?

Production Schedule and 3.0 by Will "Soulcrusher" Leverett
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/production-schedule-and-3-0

The focus being

Our Production Schedule updates that you see are right out of the same software that our production team uses. No edits, no censors, no marketing spin.

There are many ways to manage customers expectations. Telling the truth is one of them. They are showing us an unfiltered view to their schedule. So much has been blunt they have stated in many of Features in which work was put off in favor of another feature and features that don't even have dates such as character customization.

But they aren't going to give marketing speech or empty promises the are going to give the unfiltered information and even with the most updated Production schedule report, the reaction to the truth is entirely dependent on the reader.

It is like a discussion around the term "Hype". That is not something any pub or dev can manage. It is an internal expectation and one not built on information given but one powered by personal hope of what a project will eventually become.

 

[fresquito]

Advancement in that particular ship or are you saying you haven't noticed the advancements of the PU in general since 2.0? The is ship is obvious. There has been no advancement simply because they have not worked on ship. Priority lends to other gameplay elements. But if you are saying you haven't noticed any content or gameplay features added since 2.0, that is a different discussion all together

I haven't noticed them in general. The same basic problems are there every time I install the game: ship and general clip issues, PU framerate and dodgy controls (on and off ships). I look around for a while, notice everything seems mostly the same, uninstall and wait for a new milestone. Rinse and repeat. I guess for those really into it, every small datail counts. As for me, someone that pops his head in from time to time, the core has not changed all that much since PU launched, if any.

Now, I'm not implying anything here. I'm just saying the game is not progressing at light speed and I don't see how anybody can trust this project on progress alone.

 

[elyetis]

The focus being.

I never argued for the removal of the current shedule report, I even said "in addition to what they currently do" to insist on that point.

ie : "our forcast for this release is ******* ( this is the one they need to communicate at big events ) but here is our internal shedule : "
or
" here is our internal shedule :

our forcast for this release is ******* ( still the one they need to communicate at big events no change there ), as you can see we are very cautious with this one, as item 2.0 is likely to blahablah also network is at a turning point so blahablah."

It is like a discussion around the term "Hype". That is not something any pub or dev can manage. It is an internal expectation and one not built on information given but one powered by personal hope of what a project will eventually become.

I'm not a marketing person but I'm pretty sure most would disagree, mostly because it pretty much mean their job is useless other than making people aware of their product.

 

[staticneuron]

I haven't noticed them in general. The same basic problems are there every time I install the game: ship and general clip issues, PU framerate and dodgy controls (on and off ships). I look around for a while, notice everything seems mostly the same, uninstall and wait for a new milestone. Rinse and repeat. I guess for those really into it, every small datail counts. As for me, someone that pops his head in from time to time, the core has not changed all that much since PU launched, if any.

Now, I'm not implying anything here. I'm just saying the game is not progressing at light speed and I don't see how anybody can trust this project on progress alone.

You seriously have to be loading the game, looking around, not going very far to come to that conclusion. Which is odd because some of the updates since then are included in the main menu. and some of the changes are Apparent and available in Port Olisar

Ignoring bug fixes, UI improvements,and backend work for now, the Alpha has seen tangible gameplay elements and features since 2.0 launch including:

- Actual server side persistence
- 13+ Flyable ships
- Star Marine
- Item 2.0 system (not only visible in PU but in hanger and AC)
- Player health 2.0 (and then bleeding)
- Currency system aUEC added which allows for.....
- Added stores, weapons, suits and items to PU
- The ability to change and inspect outfits
- Ship weapons and functionality (such as pyroburst, M7A and EMP burst)
- added salvage locations in PU (pick up and keep weapons)
- new PU missions
- Changed scale of PU space
- added bounty (wanted), hostility, recognition, reputation, Repair, Restock and Refuel systems
- and don't forget the outlaw Grimhex Base

The Alpha went from having not much to do, and no consequences for your actions,, to something with stakes. NPC good or bad recognize you, You get to keep and grow money and weapons. There are things you can stumble across and systems that can put you in direct conflict with other players if you so choose. And I am not even getting into any detail here this is just general changes that have made a fairly large change and one that really highlights how much you have actually gone into the Alpha PU and attempted to explore or do a mission. Persistence was a unique enough step, adding in all of the systems, shops and mechanics (EMP especially) makes 2.6 look and play totally different to 2.0.

I never argued for the removal of the current shedule report, I even said "in addition to what they currently do" to insist on that point.

ie : "our forcast for this release is ******* ( this is the one they need to communicate at big events ) but here is our internal shedule : "
or
" here is our internal shedule :

our forcast for this release is ******* ( still the one they need to communicate at big events no change there ), as you can see we are very cautious with this one, as item 2.0 is likely to blahablah also network is at a turning point so blahablah."

I must admit I am not understanding you here. Their internal schedule is the forecast. At the bottom of the schedule is a beyond 3.0 complete with timelines. If you are asking for version details, they seemingly have a general idea but not hammered out final features meaning they cannot give a date for something that isn't fully formed. Unless you are talking about something else entirely here and I am missing something.

I'm not a marketing person but I'm pretty sure most would disagree, mostly because it pretty much mean their job is useless other than making people aware of their product.

Generating interest and generating hype has two different connotations. Hype is often seen as deceptive and/or really excessive. So informing people is not 1:1 with hype.

 

[fresquito]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Although it doesn't sound like two years worth of work, I'll go and say that I stand corrected. You must admit, though, that doing any of that when you clip through your ship, is easier said than done.

PU performance doesn't help in making me want to try more, either.

 

[staticneuron]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Although it doesn't sound like two years worth of work, I'll go and say that I stand corrected. You must admit, though, that doing any of that when you clip through your ship, is easier said than done.

PU performance doesn't help in making me want to try more, either.

Indeed. They need to address that but despite issues I was able to fly mustang for quite some time before I melted it. Performance in PU is limited by server connections. I have been in instances where it was buttery smooth and some were I saw great performance dips. But the network refactor and performance issues are on the list as well. They are still working on feature set. Optimization and polish is normally the last stage of development and doesn't usually happen in alpha state, as I am sure you are aware. I did avoid listing all patch notes, including bug fixes, back end work, UI refinements, balances and much more. While it hasn't really been two years yet, if you really want to see all of the notes here they are, maybe it will reflect the work and time spent more to your expectations. Of course keeping in mind they have also been working on 3.0 tech and Squadron 42, during this time period.


Patch notes 2.1
Patch notes 2.2
Patch notes 2.3
Patch notes 2.4
Patch notes 2.5
Patch notes 2.6

I provided links because I am sure scrolling through all of that information wouldn't be fun and I am sure I would hit character limit.

 

[fresquito]

Indeed. They need to address that but despite issues I was able to fly mustang for quite some time before I melted it. Performance in PU is limited by server connections. I have been in instances where it was buttery smooth and some were I saw great performance dips. But the network refactor and performance issues are on the list as well. They are still working on feature set. Optimization and polish is normally the last stage of development and doesn't usually happen in alpha state, as I am sure you are aware. I did avoid listing all patch notes, including bug fixes, back end work, UI refinements, balances and much more. While it hasn't really been two years yet, if you really want to see all of the notes here they are, maybe it will reflect the work and time spent more to your expectations. Of course keeping in mind they have also been working on 3.0 tech and Squadron 42, during this time period.


Patch notes 2.1
Patch notes 2.2
Patch notes 2.3
Patch notes 2.4
Patch notes 2.5
Patch notes 2.6

I provided links because I am sure scrolling through all of that information wouldn't be fun and I am sure I would hit character limit.

Thanks again. I'm not overly impressed by those patch notes, to be honest. I get daily builds from Project CARS 2 and the list of a week easily outshines a .x there. Apples to oranges I know, but looking over the list, it doesn't strike me as a ton of work made by a gargantuan team (sum of teams). Of course, as you point, 3.0 will probably give us a better picture of where the development time went.

 

[staticneuron]

Thanks again. I'm not overly impressed by those patch notes, to be honest. I get daily builds from Project CARS 2 and the list of a week easily outshines a .x there. Apples to oranges I know, but looking over the list, it doesn't strike me as a ton of work made by a gargantuan team (sum of teams). Of course, as you point, 3.0 will probably give us a better picture of where the development time went.

Indeed, you are comparing a simulation racer to an MMO base. Then comparing alpha builds from that sim racer, to alpha build of one MMO while the studio is working on a another major version of the universe and a Single player experience all at same time. That alone should be a warning flag and that is before we even talk about scale of projects and new tech required to bring titles to life. The patch notes aren't to impress they are to inform. If you can look at that work as an inspiring developer and feel they haven't done enough, I guess that convinces me. I guess you are right. When Pcars2 comes out, I am sure everyone at CiG will feel intense shame for the speed at which they are going in making their game.

 

[Taranis]

Thanks again. I'm not overly impressed by those patch notes, to be honest. I get daily builds from Project CARS 2 and the list of a week easily outshines a .x there. Apples to oranges I know, but looking over the list, it doesn't strike me as a ton of work made by a gargantuan team (sum of teams). Of course, as you point, 3.0 will probably give us a better picture of where the development time went.

Do you watch the weekly video updates CIG puts out?

 

[Eolz]

Thanks again. I'm not overly impressed by those patch notes, to be honest. I get daily builds from Project CARS 2 and the list of a week easily outshines a .x there. Apples to oranges I know, but looking over the list, it doesn't strike me as a ton of work made by a gargantuan team (sum of teams). Of course, as you point, 3.0 will probably give us a better picture of where the development time went.

To be fair, Project Cars 2 handles it in a different way, and is more impressive on certain aspects.
But as said above, the scope and features are also wildly different.

 

[iHaunter]

Thanks again. I'm not overly impressed by those patch notes, to be honest. I get daily builds from Project CARS 2 and the list of a week easily outshines a .x there. Apples to oranges I know, but looking over the list, it doesn't strike me as a ton of work made by a gargantuan team (sum of teams). Of course, as you point, 3.0 will probably give us a better picture of where the development time went.

I literally can't tell if you're trolling or not.

This is pretty bad. I would be embarrassed having said this in public.

 

[fresquito]

Indeed, you are comparing a simulation racer to an MMO base. Then comparing alpha builds from that sim racer, to alpha build of one MMO while the studio is working on a another major version of the universe and a Single player experience all at same time. That alone should be a warning flag and that is before we even talk about scale of projects and new tech required to bring titles to life. The patch notes aren't to impress they are to inform. If you can look at that work as an inspiring developer and feel they haven't done enough, I guess that convinces me. I guess you are right. When Pcars2 comes out, I am sure everyone at CiG will feel intense shame for the speed at which they are going in making their game.

I'm also comparing a 10+ million project to a... I don't know, I have lost track of how much money SC has gathered.

I know it's not the best comparision, and I don't mean they are not working hard. Their output rate simply doesn't impress me. And I don't know how this is surprising to anyone. Finding the output rate of SC a positive, though? Now that would be surprising.

I literally can't tell if you're trolling or not.

This is pretty bad. I would be embarrassed having said this in public.

While I can firmly say that you don't even know Project CARS 2.

 

[elyetis]

I must admit I am not understanding you here. Their internal schedule is the forecast

And that's the problem.

I have no doubt the way their internal schedule work the right thing to do when it comes to the organisation of work, which is why I never said it needed to change.

I'm sure there is far more to it than this example ( and I doubt jdlshore did something that simple, he wouldn't have written a book on Agile Development if he knew as little as me ) but let's say that in the past 3 years most release were done with a margin of error of 20% compared to their internal release date ( using something along the 30 min car ride example you shared). Wait maybe this 20% is more like 5% for small release, while it more like 50% for bigger ones ? ( I used random number there ) then giving a forcast would be by taking that into account.

You said that estimates are the easy part and any half-decent "Model" can predict the probability of a delay and that it would be stupid if CIG didn't. Well while I have no doubt it does take some delay into account, going by their past release, they clearly have underestimated them.
What I'm not saying, is that it's a bad thing that their internal shedule are on the optimiste side. I have no doubt it's more efficient that way and probably increase productivity.
What I am saying, is that it does make it bad as a public release forecast.

Again that's not a judgement on how hard it is to estimate precisely something of the scale they work on. I'm a simple web dev and what they do is far far far above my skill level.
But when you know that you can take any estimate CR shared with you, add to it every time, and always end up being closer to the actual release than him, then I do consider safe to say that there is a communication problem.

Hype is often seen as deceptive and/or really excessive.[/URL] So informing people is not 1:1 with hype.

I most definitely agree. What I disagree with was the idea that what CiG communicate had no bearing in people hype. I spoke about hype in the context of the estimate given by CR in events etc.. and I stand by what I said, if say last year CR said that 3.0 would be released Q3 2017 and 3.1 fall 2017 I'm absolutely certain the hype for 3.0 wouldn't have been the same. ( just like people reaction to seeing it slip from june to september wouldn't have been the same either, even if it wouldn't mean no complaints at all from anybody )
That's not to say that they gave us the 2016 estimate for that reason, I was just saying that, yes there is that kind of downside to communicating conservative ( or even pessimist ) forecast.

 

[iHaunter]

I'm also comparing a 10+ million project to a... I don't know, I have lost track of how much money SC has gathered.

I know it's not the best comparision, and I don't mean they are not working hard. Their output rate simply doesn't impress me. And I don't know how this is surprising to anyone. Finding the output rate of SC a positive, though? Now that would be surprising.


While I can firmly say that you don't even know Project CARS 2.

The comparison is so different it makes no sense to even bring it up.

At least I found another person to mute. Not actually interested in SC, just here to shit-post.

Income doesn't equal result. You're talking about driving a car around vs a galactic universe with multiple layers of zones, planets, and economy in addition to a Single Player Campaign.

 

[fresquito]

The comparison is so different it makes no sense to even bring it up.

At least I found another person to mute. Not actually interested in SC, just here to shit-post.

Income doesn't equal result. You're talking about driving a car around vs a galactic universe with multiple layers of zones, planets, and economy in addition to a Single Player Campaign.

Yeah, no idea of Project CARS 2, and I'm the one embarrasing himself.

It seems people around here are way to invested emotionally. I will leave now.

 

[Grassy]

maybe to amend the rift

Chris Roberts should bring Derek Smart in CIG,


Derek might have some good ideas about the game that Chris could implement, plus they could amend their relationship

What a stupid suggestion, holy fuck...

 

[tuxfool]

Yeah, no idea of Project CARS 2, and I'm the one embarrasing himself.

It seems people around here are way to invested emotionally. I will leave now.

Nobody is claiming that you don't know about anything of Project CARS 2, however what people take issue here is your insistence that the two projects are comparable. Certain aspects may be, but you haven't done the legwork to drill down into areas subject to comparison.

In the end just pointing to the broad strokes is just, as you say, apples to oranges.

 

[iHaunter]

Yeah, no idea of Project CARS 2, and I'm the one embarrasing himself.

It seems people around here are way to invested emotionally. I will leave now.

I have no emotional attachment, I just like things to make sense.

Of course CIG has made many mistakes, hiring that studio to work on Star Marine was a big one.

 

[staticneuron]

And that's the problem.

I have no doubt the way their internal schedule work the right thing to do when it comes to the organisation of work, which is why I never said it needed to change.

I'm sure there is far more to it than this example ( and I doubt jdlshore did something that simple, he wouldn't have written a book on Agile Development if he knew as little as me ) but let's say that in the past 3 years most release were done with a margin of error of 20% compared to their internal release date ( using something along the 30 min car ride example you shared). Wait maybe this 20% is more like 5% for small release, while it more like 50% for bigger ones ? ( I used random number there ) then giving a forcast would be by taking that into account.

You said that estimates are the easy part and any half-decent "Model" can predict the probability of a delay and that it would be stupid if CIG didn't. Well while I have no doubt it does take some delay into account, going by their past release, they clearly have underestimated them.
What I'm not saying, is that it's a bad thing that their internal shedule are on the optimiste side. I have no doubt it's more efficient that way and probably increase productivity.
What I am saying, is that it does make it bad as a public release forecast.

Again that's not a judgement on how hard it is to estimate precisely something of the scale they work on. I'm a simple web dev and what they do is far far far above my skill level.
But when you know that you can take any estimate CR shared with you, add to it every time, and always end up being closer to the actual release than him, then I do consider safe to say that there is a communication problem.
I most definitely agree. What I disagree with was the idea that what CiG communicate had no bearing in people hype. I spoke about hype in the context of the estimate given by CR in events etc.. and I stand by what I said, if say last year CR said that 3.0 would be released Q3 2017 and 3.1 fall 2017 I'm absolutely certain the hype for 3.0 wouldn't have been the same. ( just like people reaction to seeing it slip from june to september wouldn't have been the same either, even if it wouldn't mean no complaints at all from anybody )
That's not to say that they gave us the 2016 estimate for that reason, I was just saying that, yes there is that kind of downside to communicating conservative ( or even pessimist ) forecast.

I think I understand what you are getting at here. But iirc, didn't they already do that before schedule reports and people weren't happy? Doesn't this kind of point to a reality that some people really would be unhappy no matter what?

At least in this method, the reasons for delays are less nebulous and rely less on "we are working on it" and drills down exactly what they are working on.

The think about Jdlshore is he makes his predictions on what comes before but makes no hidden judgement calls about the variables. His predictions are in fact based off on the reports they give and that includes times when a task has to be put on hold for other features or unexpected problems on the way to feature complete. His model also does not take into account bug fixing or polish but makes assumptions on what came before.


It seems to me they don't want to project a date given so much is uncharted territory. They can leave it to others to be optimistic. But to say that they don't actually know wouldn't be an understatement, hence they create targets.

So I think I understand you now, but I don't think it would make things better because people have the habit of treating estimates as a hard date. The fallout from a forcast window I would imagine would be even larger.

 

[Cabbagehead]

maybe to amend the rift

Chris Roberts should bring Derek Smart in CIG,


Derek might have some good ideas about the game that Chris could implement, plus they could amend their relationship

Fucking lol they never had a relationship. DS is just a delusional jealous stalker. With a even more delusional vendetta to go along with his FUD spewing and doxxing.

CR needs to stay as far away from that man as possible. Because he's legitimately unhinged and CR has more important things to worry about unless he's been attacked or his family is being doxed by DS and his group of ass hats.


Also don't worry, CIG and the community coming up with ideas or even good ones. Has been more then taken care of as there's been plenty of ideas and concepts to gleam from spanning four years. Some officially and unofficially.

Overall not a very smart suggestion at all.

 

[iHaunter]

Fucking lol they never had a relationship. DS is just a delusional jealous stalker. With a even more delusional vendetta to go along with his FUD spewing and doxxing.

CR needs to stay as far away from that man as possible. Because he's legitimately unhinged and CR has more important things to worry about unless he's been attacked or his family is being doxed by DS and his group of ass hats.


Also don't worry CIG and the community have plenty of ideas and concept to gleam from spanning four years.

Overall not a very smart suggestion at all.

Didn't he get kicked from his BC3K project by TakeTwo because he was hiding a different version of the game?

Also pretty sure he was sued several times for not paying people as well.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Didn't he get kicked from his BC3K project by TakeTwo because he was hiding a different version of the game?

Also pretty sure he was sued several times for not paying people as well.

He's blacklisted from the industry for a reason. Lets just say that.

Not enough time in a day to go through his fuck-ups. Hence why anyone who uses him as a "source" or a place of knowledge about CIG, CR or the project itself. Are hypocrites and support his inane behavior.

But they aren't going to give marketing speech or empty promises the are going to give the unfiltered information and even with the most updated Production schedule report, the reaction to the truth is entirely dependent on the reader.

Truer statements have never been said Static, in regards to that particular subject and in relation to a large number of people. That seem to roam around this project and even some vocal parts of the community. That are virtual clueless about the process of game development/publishers itself, given the amount of broken/unfinished games being put out in for the new generation. So a level of distrust have been built up and it rings through. Most of the more honest and less accusatory responses to CIG own explanation of their own situation.

Just how out of habit it is on one hand and blatantly being against the project out of spite. On the other.

PS Thanks for doing a better job of putting forward a better argument against eLe .

 

[staticneuron]

Truer statements have never been said Static, in regards to that particular subject and in relation to a large number of people. That seem to roam around this project and even some vocal parts of the community. That are virtual clueless about the process of game development/publishers itself, given the amount of broken/unfinished games being put out in for the new generation. So a level of distrust have been built up and it rings through. Most of the more honest and less accusatory responses to CIG own explanation of their own situation.

Just how out of habit on one hand and blatantly being against the project out of spite.

PS Thanks for doing a better job of putting forward a better argument against eLe .

I get where he is going at but the issue is that we have been here before with just forcasts and no schedule report. The issue is that people take ANY dates or projections that were given out as set in stone. The only difference is that before the schedule report there were probably more talk about them not actually working on anything, feeding into the idea of scam or vaporware. Now that that has gone away (mainly because people don't actually produce products and iterate on vaporware) there still remains the group that lose their crap over not getting the game in original projected times.

If this was a AAA third party game people wouldn't even know about the game yet. People cannot compare favorably because most pubs don't even talk about their games until base engine is up and running. The nature of this being started with a kickstarter and people hopping on at concept stage, have left people with skewed projections of quality. The thing about it, is that it stated in the kickstarter that they were goin to change "how" they made the game with more funding. They polled the original investors repeatedly which helped them commit to going bigger. To this day they still receive encouragement from many backers. What is going to happen really is 3.0 is going to be released and we will start this cycle all over again. Shorter intervals between versions, but I am sure it will still be there until the game goes beta.

 

[iHaunter]

I get where he is going at but the issue is that we have been here before with just forcasts and no schedule report. The issue is that people take ANY dates or projections that were given out as set in stone. The only difference is that before the schedule report there were probably more talk about them not actually working on anything, feeding into the idea of scam or vaporware. Now that that has gone away (mainly because people don't actually produce products and iterate on vaporware) there still remains the group that lose their crap over not getting the game in original projected times.

If this was a AAA third party game people wouldn't even know about the game yet. People cannot compare favorably because most pubs don't even talk about their games until base engine is up and running. The nature of this being started with a kickstarter and people hopping on at concept stage, have left people with skewed projections of quality. The thing about it, is that it stated in the kickstarter that they were goin to change "how" they made the game with more funding. They polled the original investors repeatedly which helped them commit to going bigger. To this day they still receive encouragement from many backers. What is going to happen really is 3.0 is going to be released and we will start this cycle all over again. Shorter intervals between versions, but I am sure it will still be there until the game goes beta.

People also seem to forget that CIG didn't start with 300+ Employees...They had under 40 for the first few years. If they had 300+ employees + $155 million from the start, yeah we'd probably be at 4.0 and SQ42 at this current point.

 

[Cabbagehead]

People also seem to forget that CIG didn't start with 300+ Employees...They had under 40 for the first few years. If they had 300+ employees + $155 million from the start, yeah we'd probably be at 4.0 and SQ42 at this current point.

Yep;

and

.......................................

Lots of perspective/context is always being lost. When folks jump in here or other SC related threads or topics and they don't know or care to know the beginnings -whys, whens, wheres- of the project. Still they want to lecture and sprout absolutes the time it's taking to make the game. Without even understanding how long other projects took to make and maybe not even come out at all. An it's not like there aren't plenty of examples either.

I mean why do people think Destiny hasn't/didn't turn out like they original envisioned at Bungie? http://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-story-behind-the-making-of-destiny-1737556731

Turns out a lot of shit happens behind close doors and that shit can effect great ideas and ambition endeavors. When there are to many cooks in the kitchen.
.......................................

If this was Blizzad instead of CIG and they were working on this game? Barely anyone would be complaining about it, while trying to be armchair developers.

Since the community wouldn't be hearing about it from week to week or at the end of the month, like their the publishes of the game. Truth is outside of wanting to hear more about said game. They wouldn't be getting much of anything out of them expect for vague confirmations and the like, because they would be used to a certain type of development style and wouldn't have choosen to be THAT open.

Which would be the traditional way of doing things of course.

So i can only imagine how people would have reacted to seeing TITAN MMO eventually turned into Overwatch, after building up expectations and the like. Yikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCvdNI0CDjc

http://kotaku.com/heres-what-blizzards-titan-actually-was-1638632121

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/blizzard-on-cancelled-titan-mmo-we-failed-horrific/1100-6439068/

I mean that was a title that was in development for wat? eight years or something.

Now if were privy to almost all the on-going within the Titan team making the game doing that time? and they were doing what CIG is doing currently. With the ATV's, Dev Interaction, community events, early access...etc people would be losing their shit following the game, given all the issues that seemed to have crept up in the development of Titan.

But of course Blizzard does have the games and history to smooth things over an maybe curve the response. Something that CIG does not have and won't have for a while. A reality that they know full and well, as they continue to push towards getting two ambition titles in SQ42 and SC out as functioning games (over-time). While they are still in early development/alpha and move forward with letting the community test each build, until all the pieces are put together.

It's truly a unique and harrowing experiment (within a extremely collaborative/creative industry), one that most developers have never been apart of. Then you add in being a new studio to boot? lol. The having to come face-face with the gaming community?

With all it's knee-jerky/bi-polar behavior....jesus.

...........................................

But lucky enough to CIG (As you already know) after having their own bout with internal struggles and other issues. They had (not given) the time and excised the patience needed to pivot accordingly. Without cutting game down to nothing, without the -sometimes- corrosive interference from suits or the publishers company itself.

Hence CIG being in a better place then before internally in regards to the developers themselves and them having the engine/tools increasingly being in a better place. Then before.

 

[staticneuron]

I can only imagine how people would have reacted to seeing TITAN MMO eventually turned into Overwatch, after building up expectations. Yikes.

This just in, Star Citizen is now a Top Down Isometric Cooking/dance game with survival elements.

Ships people purchased will now be converted to tiered cookware.

 

[Cave Johnson]

This just in, Star Citizen is now a Top Down Isometric Cooking/dance game with survival elements.

Ships people purchased will now be converted to tiered cookware.

But, that's not the comparison he's making isn't it?

 

[staticneuron]

But, that's not the comparison he's making isn't it?

I was just kiddi....whoa! Is this "THE" Cave Johnson?!?! Founder of Aperture Science? I love your company and its products!

 

[Pepboy]

But, that's not the comparison he's making isn't it?

But it also doesn't make much sense to bring up Titan MMO vs SC given that SC is crowdfunded. Of course people would be more upset that a project they financially backed changed course drastically compared to some game they never put money into.

 

[Pepboy]

Nobody is claiming that you don't know about anything of Project CARS 2, however what people take issue here is your insistence that the two projects are comparable. Certain aspects may be, but you haven't done the legwork to drill down into areas subject to comparison.

In the end just pointing to the broad strokes is just, as you say, apples to oranges.

He was not claiming he didn't know about Project Cars 2. He was claiming that the other posters didn't, but were posting as if Project Cars 2 was just some simple arcade racing game. Thus, that they were the ones embarrassing themselves by posting with ignorance about the accuracy of the comparison.

He might be right but since this is the SC thread, it's not normally expected for people to be familiar with Project Cars 2. However I can't help but agree that some people in this thread are emotionally invested, myself included. I am emotionally invested in this thread not becoming an echo chamber because I don't want potential new backers to be misled if they hop into the thread looking for an update.

If people know about the extensive delays, the lack of information about gameplay design, the changes in engines, Roberts management history, the lack of transparency, the difficulty of continuing to fund 400 people after release, and still want to back the project, I think that's great. Personally I hope the game works out, I love space sims and SC has the potential to be one of the most detailed sims ever. But if they can't accomplish what they have set out to do with 150m then 160m or 200m won't change that, and I don't think new backers need to be misled with overly confident statements.

Edit: oops sorry for double posts, thought someone would post in between

 

[FreezerGeezer]

So this thread is cyclical aye?

Looks like they knocked out a good amount in the latest weekly progress update. Looking forward to the coming month.

 

[staticneuron]

Nevermind, Not sure if it is worth it.

 

[exmachina64]

I mean why do people think Destiny hasn't/didn't turn out like they original envisioned at Bungie?

The average gamer would say they were lazy.

 

[Cabbagehead]

The average gamer would say they were lazy.

That's the problem with the average gamers that THINK they know, when in doubt make shit up, when you don't know about someone's situation to make yourself feel better. Its why most developers want to stay as far away from them as possible. In most cases. They just don't understand and in most cases don't care to. It's all about what their not getting in the end and not the whys, whens and hows.

Which is something, i'm learning to seek out and look for and why those invesgatived articles that come out are gold mines. So it now kind of posses me off hearing someone post that and actual believe that notion. Thinking the the developers themselves have final say in the traditional market. Like those developers didn't want better conditions, wages, support, more time and less drama that distracts them from making good games. A lot of it is out of their control at a cetain point. Now of course it doesn't mean it's all asian sweat-shopish at every studio. But these guys work damn hard and it's all they have in most cases.

 

[staticneuron]

So this thread is cyclical aye?

Looks like they knocked out a good amount in the latest weekly progress update. Looking forward to the coming month.

You noticed?

Everything that is old is new again. Get with the times you Geezer!

 

[FreezerGeezer]

You noticed?

Everything that is old is new again. Get with the times you Geezer!

You whipper snapper!

Just saw those pictures on the previous page as well, including that GIF from twitter. Bloody hell that looks good, looking forward to living that scene at 6 FPS on my PC hopefully in the next month or two.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Maybe we should have a separate thread for people to bitch about timelines and funding and just keep this one for gameplay talk? Or maybe just start a new "gameplay talk only" thread.

 

[Danthrax]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Although it doesn't sound like two years worth of work, I'll go and say that I stand corrected. You must admit, though, that doing any of that when you clip through your ship, is easier said than done.

PU performance doesn't help in making me want to try more, either.

It's not. It's one year of work. The 2.0.0 patch was released Dec. 11, 2015, and the 2.6.0 patch was released Dec. 23, 2016. It's now been more than seven months since the last 2.X.0 patch, so by the time 3.0.0 is released, it will be reflect about eight months of new work — it'll be a huge update.

 

[staticneuron]

It's not. It's one year of work. The 2.0.0 patch was released Dec. 11, 2015, and the 2.6.0 patch was released Dec. 23, 2016. It's now been more than seven months since the last 2.X.0 patch, so by the time 3.0.0 is released, it will be reflect about eight months of new work — it'll be a huge update.

It's a bit more complicated than that of course since alot of the tech that will be implemented in 3.0 started being refined and shown late 2015. 3.0 is going to included tech they have been working on "while" they released and updated 2.0. Hence trying to gauge progress of 3.0 by each version in SC alpha is a wasted endeavor. But even as such, t imply nothing was done between 2.0 and 2.6 isn't true and quite easily disproven.

 

[SmartBase]

Can I grab whatever version is out now and then save some download time when 3.0 is released? Or is that for updates after 3.0?

 

[tuxfool]

He was not claiming he didn't know about Project Cars 2. He was claiming that the other posters didn't, but were posting as if Project Cars 2 was just some simple arcade racing game. Thus, that they were the ones embarrassing themselves by posting with ignorance about the accuracy of the comparison.

It isn't, but it is an iteration of a game that already exists. Like, one can compare it to Forza which iterates on exactly the same game on a Biennial basis. It is a track based racer, so it isn't as simple as an arcade racer, but it also isn't nearly as complicated as an MMO.

Can I grab whatever version is out now and then save some download time when 3.0 is released? Or is that for updates after 3.0?

Honestly, I'd wait. They plan on introducing the new Delta Patcher with 3.0, so it is all up in the air.

 

[Cabbagehead]

It's a bit more complicated than that of course since alot of the tech that will be implemented in 3.0 started being refined and shown late 2015. 3.0 is going to included tech they have been working on "while" they released and updated 2.0. Hence trying to gauge progress of 3.0 by each version in SC alpha is a wasted endeavor. But even as such, t imply nothing was done between 2.0 and 2.6 isn't true and quite easily disproven.

Yep, another thing CIG has bring forth coming about and made clear long ago. 3.0 is at least two years of work. Give or take some additional and subtracts, as they've explained the reasons for those actions over the last six to seven months.There's been a lot of transitioning and re-updating given all the moving pieces 3.0 contains. It's truly the next in a whole lot of areas that are important for the future of the game especially. So it has to go as smooth as its reasonably possible in order to get the results they want and built upon that foundation sooner rather then later.


Lots of work was being done for sure and anyone that believes that's not the case, only serve to make themselves look supremely foolish.

 

[SmartBase]

It isn't, but it is an iteration of a game that already exists. Like, one can compare it to Forza which iterates on exactly the same game on a Biennial basis. It is a track based racer, so it isn't as simple as an arcade racer, but it also isn't nearly as complicated as an MMO.



Honestly, I'd wait. They plan on introducing the new Delta Patcher with 3.0, so it is all up in the air.

Thanks, it's good to know it's coming sooner rather than later.

 

[iHaunter]

Thanks, it's good to know it's coming sooner rather than later.

Especially for people in Europe.

I know many folks over there that have data caps, which is nuts! Delta patcher will help immensely.

 

[Zabojnik]

Especially for people in Europe.

I know many folks over there that have data caps, which is nuts! Delta patcher will help immensely.

Especially for people in Europe? I'm sure there are people on data caps over here as well, but I always thought it was more of a US thing.

I don't think I know a single person who's on capped internet, actually.

 

[tuxfool]

Especially for people in Europe.

I know many folks over there that have data caps, which is nuts! Delta patcher will help immensely.

No. It is the US that has third world internet access, mostly. There haven't been bandwidth caps here in over 10 years.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Especially for people in Europe.

I know many folks over there that have data caps, which is nuts! Delta patcher will help immensely.

Mane, Verizon had 300GB a month for a while for me, I had to turn off Steam auto updates. Struggle internet is definitely in the US

 

[Dictator93]

Mane, Verizon had 300GB a month for a while for me, I had to turn off Steam auto updates. Struggle internet is definitely in the US

You cannot just change your avatar like that man, you are confusing us.

WHich sports reference am I supposed to be giggled at right now?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

You cannot just change your avatar like that man, you are confusing us.

WHich sports reference am I supposed to be giggled at right now?

What do you mean, this has always been my avatar

 

[SmartBase]

Especially for people in Europe.

I know many folks over there that have data caps, which is nuts! Delta patcher will help immensely.

I'm in northern Europe nowadays so the rest of the world looks pretty damn backwards and slow from here. I'd just rather not have to download the game again each time there's an update.