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[XMonkey]

Good lord we are screwed in 2018 and beyond if we don't cut this shit out.

 

[soldierblue]

At this point I feel like Bernie and The rest of his crew should just form their own party. If that means they stop caucusing with Democrats, fine.

The closer we get to 2018 with them demonizing the rest of the party, the worse I feel.

I'm at the point where I feel they're like the DNC equivalent of Trumpsters.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

At this point I feel like Bernie and The rest of his crew should just form their own party. If that means they stop caucusing with Democrats, fine.

The closer we get to 2018 with them demonizing the rest of the party, the worse I feel.

I'm at the point where I feel they're like the DNC equivalent of Trumpsters.

lol. Glad to see you're in favor of white supremacy and infinite GOP winning.

 

[soldierblue]

lol. Glad to see you're in favor of white supremacy and infinite GOP winning.

That's way out of line, man.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Good lord we are screwed in 2018 and beyond if we don't cut this shit out.

The biggest lesson we learned in 2016 was that there wasn’t nearly enough in-fighting and finger pointing.

 

[Mael]

The biggest lesson we learned in 2016 was that there wasn’t nearly enough in-fighting and finger pointing.

Well just look at the GoP primary, they certainly did fight.

 

[JustenP88]

At this point I feel like Bernie and The rest of his crew should just form their own party. If that means they stop caucusing with Democrats, fine.

The closer we get to 2018 with them demonizing the rest of the party, the worse I feel.

I'm at the point where I feel they're like the DNC equivalent of Trumpsters.

That's way out of line, man.

Nah, it's right in the fucking line as far as I'm concerned.

Another thing - I think this kind of reinforces my point. I mean, you're calling more center-left democrats racists and GOP supporters, and then you're probably wondering why the DNC won't bend to your will. Or am I missing something?

Lmao. People seemed to have a blast with those sorts of accusations when they went the other way.

 

[soldierblue]

lol. Glad to see you're in favor of white supremacy and infinite GOP winning.

Another thing - I think this kind of reinforces my point. I mean, you're calling more center-left democrats racists and GOP supporters, and then you're probably wondering why the DNC won't bend to your will. Or am I missing something?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Well just look at the GoP primary, they certainly did fight.

Of course. But then they stopped and got their shit together. Albeit behind a monster.

But we’re still replaying the what-if and told-you-so game that we were doing before the primary ended. As we tear each other down, they’re tearing the country apart.

Does the Democratic Party need to change some things? Yep. But demonizing them and attacking each other is playing into the hands of the right.

Divide and conquer doesn’t only work in Risk.

 

[excelsiorlef]

At this point I feel like Bernie and The rest of his crew should just form their own party. If that means they stop caucusing with Democrats, fine.

The closer we get to 2018 with them demonizing the rest of the party, the worse I feel.

I'm at the point where I feel they're like the DNC equivalent of Trumpsters.

Honestly this is less actually about Sanders and more about some of the people around him.

 

[soldierblue]

Nah, it's right in the fucking line as far as I'm concerned.

I guess I don't understand quite where you're coming from on that? I mean the ideologies have nothing in common, but relative the rest of the party it's the more extreme segment and I feel like I see some similarities with how they view the rest of the party.

 

[soldierblue]

Honestly this is less actually about Sanders and more about some of the people around him.

I think I would agree with that.

 

[Mael]

Of course. But then they stopped and got their shit together. Albeit behind a monster.

But we’re still replaying the what-if and told-you-so game that we were doing before the primary ended. As we tear each other down, they’re tearing the country apart.

Does the Democratic Party need to change some things? Yep. But demonizing them and attacking each other is playing into the hands of the right.

Divide and conquer doesn’t only work in Risk.

It's because we didn't get behind our monster, we need to engineer our own demagogue beast and unite behind its might to crush our opponents.
If we had our own reality tv star to unleash on the masses with stupidity and incompetence as its assets, we would win all elections forever!

Spoiler

do I need to say it's sarcasm?

 

[JustenP88]

I guess I don't understand quite where you're coming from on that? I mean the ideologies have nothing in common, but relative the rest of the party it's the more extreme segment and I feel like I see some similarities with how they view the rest of the party.

If you actually think it would be in the left's best interest for a politician like Sanders to run in the general election as independent, or under a new party, I can't help but think you're either a GOP or Russian troll.

 

[jack_package_200]

If you actually think it would be in the left's best interest for a politician like Sanders to run in the general election as independent, or under a new party, I can't help but think you're either a GOP or Russian troll.

Agreed.

I want them to actually converse and have an actual dialogue with Democratic Party leadership about how to move forward and not pull stupid stunts and be offended at donuts. I don't want them to fuck off.

Its not asking for much.

 

[sflufan]

Who the hell pairs doughnuts with water?!?

 

[soldierblue]

If you actually think it would be in the left's best interest for a politician like Sanders to run in the general election as independent, or under a new party, I can't help but think you're either a GOP or Russian troll.

I don't feel like there would be any real chance of that happening in a serious way. I think is in the left's best interest that he step away. I want to see more people like Harris, Gabbard, or even Booker blossom and become the face of the party.

I don't think people like Bernie or Pelosi are helping at this point.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It's because we didn't get behind our monster, we need to engineer our own demagogue beast and unite behind its might to crush our opponents.
If we had our own reality tv star to unleash on the masses with stupidity and incompetence as its assets, we would win all elections forever!

Spoiler

do I need to say it's sarcasm?

You'd be surprised at how many fools do believe we should run some celebrity with absolutely no political experience. It's something I've seen echoed by all spectrum of liberals.

No fucking thanks

 

[Mael]

You'd be surprised at how many fools do believe we should run some celebrity with absolutely no political experience. It's something I've seen echoed by all spectrum of liberals.

No fucking thanks

I always forget I'm on Earth-2...

 

[Nafai1123]

Would you stand by this point for class, race and gender politics and their intersections?

Do people choose their class/race/gender? Your comparison is insulting.

 

[pigeon]

At this point I feel like Bernie and The rest of his crew should just form their own party. If that means they stop caucusing with Democrats, fine.

The closer we get to 2018 with them demonizing the rest of the party, the worse I feel.

I'm at the point where I feel they're like the DNC equivalent of Trumpsters.

I mean, they don't love white supremacy, in the main, so I don't think the comparison is particularly reasonable.

 

[soldierblue]

I mean, they don't love white supremacy, in the main, so I don't think the comparison is particularly reasonable.

I didn't intend to imply imply that, but I see I did. So, apologies for the hyperbole.

I'm not sure I have a good way to put it... But I just think that we've got elements of the party who are trying to pull the party further left, which in and of itself I don't have a problem with. However, I feel like they've been using tactics going back to the primaries that, instead of furthering a constructive dialogue, are actually damaging our position in elections.

 

[kitsunelaine]

Agreed.

I want them to actually converse and have an actual dialogue with Democratic Party leadership about how to move forward and not pull stupid stunts and be offended at donuts. I don't want them to fuck off.

Its not asking for much.

You do realize that the dialogue they want is "our way or the highway", right? They don't know how to compromize. They're children throwing a tantrum with no actual clear goal, and listening to them would be nothing but bad news.

 

[smurfx]

god at this point the bernie people don't feel right if they don't think they are somehow being persecuted.

 

[kirblar]

One of the problems with using the word "centrist" is that there are two primary types.

Economic and social/identity axes. And "centrists" on one may not be "centrists" on the other (and often aren't!)

The people arguing against Single payer on the liberal/left axes generally aren't the same people saying to stop talking about BLM cause it's upsetting their grandma. (tho it can overlap)

 

[danm999]

If you're going to pull a stunt at least make it a bit less transparent. Turner just looks amateurish here.

 

[pigeon]

One of the problems with using the word "centrist" is that there are two primary types.

Economic and social/identity axes. And "centrists" on one may not be "centrists" on the other (and often aren't!)

I would argue that economic justice and social justice are ultimately the same goal, so people who are centrists on one axis but not another are just confused.

 

[kirblar]

I would argue that economic justice and social justice are ultimately the same goal, so people who are centrists on one axis but not another are just confused.

The US's lack of a EL/SC party ends up turning these people into the swing voters more often than not.

 

[Father_Brain]

Y'know, I really, really wish I could travel into the alternate timeline where Sanders got the nomination. Not even to see whether he would have won the general election, just to see how many people who've spent the better part of the past two years screeching about how he was "undermining party unity" would have backed a Bloomberg bid.

I'm guessing it'd be quite a lot of them, if not a majority.

 

[pigeon]

Y'know, I really, really wish I could travel into the alternate timeline where Sanders got the nomination. Not even to see whether he would have won the general election, just to see how many people who've spent the better part of the past two years screeching about how he was "undermining party unity" would have backed a Bloomberg bid.

I'm guessing it'd be quite a lot of them, if not a majority.

Man, I don't believe this, but if I did, I would probably troll Clinton supporters a lot less so that I didn't get stuck with another four years of Trump because of my shitty message board posts!

 

[trh]

You do realize that the dialogue they want is "our way or the highway", right? They don't know how to compromize. They're children throwing a tantrum with no actual clear goal, and listening to them would be nothing but bad news.

Talking about fucking compromise when the Dems are only doing empty gestures toward the left while they coddle their millionare donors and walk hand in hand with the centrist bullshit agenda of doing the bare minimum to silence the poor and the middle class to keep the status quo. Weak ass bullshit no identity having party. Give way to something that people can actually believe in or fade into obscurity.

 

[Veitsev]

Talking about fucking compromise when the Dems are only doing empty gestures toward the left while they coddle their millionare donors and walk hand in hand with the centrist bullshit agenda of doing the bare minimum to silence the poor and the middle class to keep the status quo. Weak ass bullshit no identity having party. Give way to something that people can actually believe in or fade into obscurity.

Sound like a productive attitude likely to get results and influence people.

 

[shawnbuddy]

Sorry breh... after 14 years and trillions upon trillions of dollars handed out to military contractors and mercenaries BECAUSE OF A TOTAL BULLSHIT REGIME CHANGE WAR BEING PROPAGANDIZED BY THE WAR PARTIES FOR THEIR OWN PROFITS (both sides and the media), since the usual suspects were once again selling a total bullshit regime change war (for their own profit) with Syria, I am glad Tulsi decided a separate set of eyes was needed on the ground to cross-check the bullshit warmonger propaganda claims being spewed constantly to us in the United States.

You need to accept the reality that this is how progressive human beings see Tulsi Gabbard:

She is a war veteran who sacrificed her life, and saw friends die for one of these illicit wars. As a Senator, in her capacity to arrange meetings inside Syria, and knowing that Syria is a corporate/geopolitical proxy war between the West/Israel/Saudid/Qatar and Russia/Iran over ultimately dumb shit... she figured she would go there and report back. We pacifists tired of the racket of wars appreciate that.

I think I've said this before, but it's refreshing to see such pure, unfettered delusion sometimes. Scary because you're so bamboozled you're supporting a woman who shares foreign policy goals with Trump so closely he considered hiring her, because she was smart and calculating enough to hitch a ride on Bernie's cult of personality train. But pure.

 

[soldierblue]

I had this wrong. The divide is way bigger than I thought.

 

[Father_Brain]

I had this wrong. The divide is way bigger than I thought.

The large majority of Democrats have favorable opinions of both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, which is a good indicator that neither the ardently anti-left nor the ardently anti-DNC people are representative of the rank and file.

Which doesn't mean that I think the intra-party polarization is symmetrical, because only one of those two camps enjoys access to and influence within the party infrastructure vastly disproportionate to their actual number, and it ain't the Bernie stans.

 

[Link]

Talking about fucking compromise when the Dems are only doing empty gestures toward the left while they coddle their millionare donors and walk hand in hand with the centrist bullshit agenda of doing the bare minimum to silence the poor and the middle class to keep the status quo. Weak ass bullshit no identity having party. Give way to something that people can actually believe in or fade into obscurity.

Yeah, they only drafted their most progressive party platform ever, including a bunch of stuff Bernie helped write.

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit. Jesus, you people are fucking delusional.

 

[jack_package_200]

You do realize that the dialogue they want is "our way or the highway", right? They don't know how to compromize. They're children throwing a tantrum with no actual clear goal, and listening to them would be nothing but bad news.

It might seem hopeless to some, but I want them to try.

It wouldn't kill Nina to go one of these meetings with the DNC and try to meet each other half way. They don't need to be enemies. They should work together to work out a compromise. The animosity will inevitably kneecap one another.

Our Revolution at least seems like the one that cares bringing about change and isn't Cenk and Kyle of the Justice Democrats sucking off each other's egos.

 

[shawnbuddy]

One of the problems with using the word "centrist" is that there are two primary types.

Economic and social/identity axes. And "centrists" on one may not be "centrists" on the other (and often aren't!)

The people arguing against Single payer on the liberal/left axes generally aren't the same people saying to stop talking about BLM cause it's upsetting their grandma. (tho it can overlap)

Apparently on GAF there's another meaning, which is just "mean thing I like calling someone who doesn't support Bernie (enough)."

 

[tbm24]

I meant she served in combat in Iraq in multiple tours.

Get back when you can address the issue of pursuing truth when they are selling us another war, instead of insulting a woman Senator because of a soundbite you heard about her.

Tulsi is not a Senator. Tulsi went to go meet a leader of a country the US is having a proxy war against and who actively murders his own people with chemical weapons. She then returned and tried to sympathize with this leader. What part of this is okay to you?

 

[Veitsev]

Tulsi is not a Senator. Tulsi went to go meet a leader of a country the US is having a proxy war against and who actively murders his own people with chemical weapons. She then returned and tried to sympathize with this leader. What part of this is okay to you?

The part where she supported Bernie Sanders

 

[dakilla13]

Talking about fucking compromise when the Dems are only doing empty gestures toward the left while they coddle their millionare donors and walk hand in hand with the centrist bullshit agenda of doing the bare minimum to silence the poor and the middle class to keep the status quo. Weak ass bullshit no identity having party. Give way to something that people can actually believe in or fade into obscurity.

Start your own fucking party then. Centrists like myself will never support a Democratic Party hijacked by far leftists.

 

[Ekai]

Apparently on GAF there's another meaning, which is just "mean thing I like calling someone who doesn't support Bernie (enough)."

It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that makes discourse here frustrating.

Start your own fucking party then. Centrists like myself will never support a Democratic Party hijacked by far leftists.

I don't see what's "far left" about helping minorities gain basic equal rights and economic reform that helps the poor.

Hell, lobbyists are a big problem as well since they end up representing corporations that only have their interest at heart/not the people. It is a real problem that politicians are too attached to them so acting like it's not is strange to me. Way too much gets shoved into bills to help these companies out and not enough is done to help the people.

Not to mention Citizen's United should be a concern and that it's considered far left as well is odd to me.

So, seriously, what does a centrist Democrat party even stand for? Genuine question.

 

[kitsunelaine]

It might seem hopeless to some, but I want them to try.

It wouldn't kill Nina to go one of these meetings with the DNC and try to meet each other half way. They don't need to be enemies. They should work together to work out a compromise. The animosity will inevitably kneecap one another.

Our Revolution at least seems like the one that cares bringing about change and isn't Cenk and Kyle of the Justice Democrats sucking off each other's egos.

Dude did you even read my post? These people only understand compromise when people who are not them are the ones doing it.

 

[kamineko]

the enemy of my enemy is my enemy

 

[Doc Holliday]

We have a madman as president that thinks out loud about using nukes and the party still can't put aside pettiness. This is why we lost, fucking selfish and irresponsible idiots who can't fucking grow up.

 

[Veitsev]

It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that makes discourse here frustrating.



I don't see what's "far left" about helping minorities gain basic equal rights and economic reform that helps the poor.

Hell, lobbyists are a big problem as well since they end up representing corporations that only have their interest at heart/not the people. It is a real problem that politicians are too attached to them so acting like it's not is strange to me. Way too much gets shoved into bills to help these companies out and not enough is done to help the people.

Not to mention Citizen's United should be a concern and that it's considered far left as well is odd to me.

So, seriously, what does a centrist Democrat party even stand for? Genuine question.

Care to point me to where anyone in this thread considers helping minorities gain basic equal rights, economic reform that helps the poor, and standing against Citizen United as far left?

These are all basic tenants of the Democratic Party platform already

 

[trh]

We have a madman as president that thinks out loud about using nukes and the party still can't put aside pettiness. This is why we lost, fucking selfish and irresponsible idiots who can't fucking grow up.

Yeah it's really fucking petty to want a party that isn't willing to compromise on abortion rights. Silly women and their bodies. And pushing for a healthcare system that would actually work and isn't a half measure? Who needs it, not like anybody is suffering from lack of medical care. It's just so selfish to want any of it.

 

[dakilla13]

It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that makes discourse here frustrating.



I don't see what's "far left" about helping minorities gain basic equal rights and economic reform that helps the poor.

Hell, lobbyists are a big problem as well since they end up representing corporations that only have their interest at heart/not the people. It is a real problem that politicians are too attached to them so acting like it's not is strange to me. Way too much gets shoved into bills to help these companies out and not enough is done to help the people.

Not to mention Citizen's United should be a concern and that it's considered far left as well is odd to me.

So, seriously, what does a centrist Democrat party even stand for? Genuine question.

Personally, that means a socially liberal fiscally conservative party. I'm all for minorities getting equal rights (minority myself) and economic reform. I however don't believe that shooting down trade deals like the TPP or renegtiating NAFTA or free college or raising corporate taxes are the right ways to go about it.

I honestly don't understand this black / white narrative that all politicians are beholden only to corporate interests and only Bernie is the one that can save us. Did anyone actually read Clintons platform? All those policies were aimed at helping the American people! I don't think the Democrats need to change their message, they just need someone charasmatic that can sway voters with rhetoric and even lie to them a little bit.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah it's really fucking petty to want a party that isn't willing to compromise on abortion rights. Silly women and their bodies. And pushing for a healthcare system that would actually work and isn't a half measure? Who needs it, not like anybody is suffering from lack of medical care. It's just so selfish to want any of it.

There were survey results posted about a week in one of the other threads relating to this and other issues.

Only 30% of Dems actually want this as a litmus test.

The party not having one is in line w/ its membership. Dems as a whole value compromise far more than conservatives do, in large part because their party base is not unified the way the GOP is.

 

[Ekai]

Personally, that means a socially liberal fiscally conservative party. I'm all for minorities getting equal rights (minority myself) and economic reform. I however don't believe that shooting down trade deals like the TPP or renegtiating NAFTA or free college or raising corporate taxes are the right ways to go about it.

I honestly don't understand this black / white narrative that all politicians are beholden only to corporate interests and only Bernie is the one that can save us. Did anyone actually read Clintons platform? All those policies were aimed at helping the American people! I don't think the Democrats need to change their message, they just need someone charasmatic that can sway voters with rhetoric and even lie to them a little bit.

But how does fiscal conservatism actually help the poor/minorities? The ones who suffer most under it are in those two categories.

Where did I imply "only Bernie" can save us? I agree about Hillary's platform. It was at the very least a step in the right direction. That said, I have a hard time seeing how what you mentioned is far left.

Care to point me to where anyone in this thread considers helping minorities gain basic equal rights, economic reform that helps the poor, and standing against Citizen United as far left?

These are all basic tenants of the Democratic Party platform already

There's a difference between proclaimed goals and actual action.