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[Thickstone]

What I've experienced a lot on this board is that videogame stories often get labeled as 'shitty' with arbitrary words such as 'anime', 'writing' or 'dialogue being tossed around. In all of these topics, you read the following:

The writing is horrible.
The dialogue is ridiculous.
It's very anime.
etc.

Quite often these statements are thrown around without much explanation. I often feel that neither the terms themselves are clear (what does the poster mean with 'writing') and neither are the statements in which they are embedded (why does the writing suck?). Moreover, I feel that there is an unspoken truth that videogame stories suck anyway so there is no need in explaining the criticism any further. The vagueness I mentioned somehow becomes accepted. In general, my impression is that there is a lot of harsh criticism and negativity surrounding the discussion of videogame stories. Eventually, everything is either 'shit' or 'pretty good (for a videogame)' but there is no in-between and this is why I find these discussions very flat. Not only are the terms unclear, they are also fairly black and white. For instance, I remember being amazed by the scope and complexity of Xenosaga and yet I wouldn't be surprised to see many writing it off as 'convoluted anime bs'.

What is your impression regarding the discussion of videogame stories?

 

[shiftplusone]

What is your impression regarding the discussion of videogame stories?

shitty

Edit: with that out of the way, you're right that a lot of games that are discussed as having a good story are usually tied down with "for a video game," i'm guessing due to the fact that it being an interactive medium a lot of times you hope that the story provides context for the gameplay, but that can be at odds with making something fun, so theres compromise involved

edit2: no its this

Posters have trouble attaching what game a screenshot is from, so I imagine it is exponentially more difficult to explain why a story or character arc isn't to their tastes.

 

[mindsale]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

A lot of the time they didn't have writers writing them, and that went on for decades.

It also took cinema like 30 years to go beyond its gimmick and make original stories that could stand on their own (not adaptations).

 

[HelloNewman]

I just don't like most video game stories the last one I liked was Arkham City most of the games I play now I don't even do story mode and I just play online.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If the shoe fits...

 

[blugbox]

Posters have trouble attaching what game a screenshot is from, so I imagine it is exponentially more difficult to explain why a story or character arc isn't to their tastes.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

Hahahahaha
Thanks, I needed that

 

[Mesoian]

Most are extremely shitty.

Mostly because, up until recently, very few games bothered to have a compelling story, and generally the ones that did were sourced from Japan and are very mired in anime tropes.

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

Very few people sabotage the end of their games with some terrible supernatural trope that just comes off as natives in blue body paint either.

 

[Poppy]

honestly its a lot easier to say specifically which game stories arent shitty

the best i can say about most of my favorite game stories is that they are pulpy fun or are so utterly ridiculous as to be endearing

 

[True Fire]

Some people take video games too seriously. Plotholes in Chapter 13? The game is shit. Unplayable.

 

[psychowave]

Posters have trouble attaching what game a screenshot is from, so I imagine it is exponentially more difficult to explain why a story or character arc isn't to their tastes.

Is there any reason why this isn't a bannable offense? It gets on my nerves.

 

[Van Bur3n]

I mean, if something is called anime in a bad way, does it really need to be explained? The name speaks for itself.

 

[120v]

generally... even the best games treat writing as an afterthought, or don't execute narrative arcs particularly well. i don't mean to impugn the immense talent in the industry and it's gotten better the past decade or so. but in an era where games are pretty much 1:1 with hollywood productions it's kind of a glaring problem to handwave

 

[Mesoian]

Some people take video games too seriously. Plotholes in Chapter 13? The game is shit. Unplayable.

And to be honest, it's this sort of mindset for why no one really goes in on story when it comes to big games. Most people don't mind as long as the connective tissue for the gameplay is serviceable.

I mean, if something is called anime in a bad way, does it really need to be explained? The name speaks for itself.

I mean, you have to be pretty well versed in anime to know why anime can be construed as a negative.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I do think there could be a bit more nuance in the discussion. Videogame written narratives obviously aren't often as strong as their mechanical bones holding up the whole story. But there are sometimes virtues to moments with overall bad characters. Likewise, saying that a story in any videogame is universally excellent is probably hyperbole that I myself am guilty of.

Some people take video games too seriously. Plotholes in Chapter 13? The game is shit. Unplayable.

FFXV Chapter 13 was boring to me which is why I disliked it. It didn't work for me in any sense, though I applaud the risk to change up the gameplay.

 

[Nheco]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

well... that's is... quite an opinion.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Video games are a weird medium in that a person can be compelled to complete a game without giving two shits about the story so long as the game plays well. Because many games relied on gameplay chugging a player along, writing wasn't as relied upon as it is in mediums centered around storytelling like books or film. Given that a great many games used story as window-dressing for gameplay back in the day, reviewers would accept games having weak stories as the rule rather than the exception. As the medium's evolved, this perception changed significantly, resulting in reviewers and players looking more critically on game stories for better and for worse.

That all being said, there's still plenty of great game stories from older era games. OP mentions Xenosaga, I'd also add FFVI, Planescape, Grim Fandango, Full Throttle, Silent Hill, and Monkey Island. However, for every one of those, you'd get a bunch of character platformers, RTS stories told through cheesy FMV, or a standard shooter mostly reliant on gameplay and artstyle to carry the player through. Hence the criticism.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Generally speaking, I would say the discussion of stories in video games, not unlike with given genres in other mediums - particularly action oriented ones - is to assume a story is either shit or merely serviceable until proven otherwise.

Mind you, the medium hasn't helped itself given the fact that yes, a lot of stories are applied to games after the fact, or they're chasing the recognition given to other mediums, and otherwise generally seen as subservient to the gameplay. Unless a series is explicitly accepted as being about its story - something largely afforded to the likes of Visual Novels or Walking Simulators - then that last point in particular is going to shape the critical mindset under which it is scrutinised, and that developers will try to account for. That's not a good culture in which to craft a story in general.

Edit:
To add to this quickly, I think another issue we have is that there's kind of a memetic element to how automatically terrible video game stories are, or almost 'should' be. So people often automatically disengage from any discussion of story at a critical level, or the notion that aspects of a story could be good outside of a particular and personal standard for good storytelling.

 

[JCX]

Most videogames seem to copy movies rather than leverage the unique abilities videogames have to tell stories in ways that you can't in other media.

 

[autoduelist]

Historically, the stories for many games were written by the programmers... it was more of a 'well, I need to scrap together a story' than 'let's write a cohesive story' sort of thing.

Historically, most popular games were arcade/video games with little room for stories. You wanted your player popping in another quarter, not reading text.

Historically, for various reasons, text was often kept short and terse. Think jrpg text boxes... clicking through 100 of those is rough on anyone, so instead, keep it short. "..." Then that text got translated...

Even with a good story, games offer very distinct challenges. For example, with a film or book, the author/writer completely controls pacing. However, in a game, a player may do side quests/grinding whenever they want, or even in a corridor game a fight might take 40 tries. This really, really hurts the ability to tell a cohesive story.

There are still some games with great writing. It's just rare, and it'll likely be rare for some time to come, because unlike, say, a book [where writing is everything], many people prefer gameplay to writing [that is, they'll happily buy a game with great mechanics regardless of story quality].

And remember, there are plenty of bad books and movies with terrible writing/story... and with a book, specifically, that was the author's only job. But in a game? Gameplay, coding, etc all play huge roles.

 

[TatteredHat]

Player agency and choice gets in the way of really great storytelling, with all other types of media you don't have a rogue element trying to break things.

 

[Dance Inferno]

One thing that has led me to stop interacting as deeply with internet communities (e.g., NeoGAF, Reddit, etc.) is that when criticism is levied against a game, it is generally done in terms of extremes. A game is either the best game I have ever played with some of the best writing I have ever experienced in any medium, or it is a piece of shit game with mind-blowingly stupid design decisions that you shouldn't play even if it were free.

Nothing is ever "OK" or "not great but enjoyable". I don't feel like getting into an adolescent dick measuring contest every time I want to have a discussion about a game.

 

[MisterShine]

As videogame enthusiasts, we often tend to compare pretty much all of the output in our chosen media against the best of other mediums.

There's a ton of tripe storytelling in literature, films and television today and through their history, but we tend not to focus on that. Everything gets compared to GoT, Harry Potter, etc.

 

[Mesoian]

One thing that has led me to stop interacting as deeply with internet communities (e.g., NeoGAF, Reddit, etc.) is that when criticism is levied against a game, it is generally done in terms of extremes. A game is either the best game I have ever played with some of the best writing I have ever experienced in any medium, or it is a piece of shit game with mind-blowingly stupid design decisions that you shouldn't play even if it were free.

Nothing is ever "OK" or "not great but enjoyable". I don't feel like getting into an adolescent dick measuring contest every time I want to have a discussion about a game.

I mean...okay, but what does that have to do with this conversation?

 

[Astral Dog]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

Naughty Dog stories are boring 😥

Spoiler

yes i said it

 

[Angry Puppy]

Yes stories in video games are shitty. I generally wouldn't be playing games to look for a good story.

 

[His Majesty]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

lol

not sure if bait but I couldn't resist

 

[Neoleo2143]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

Uncharted 4's plotting is a goddamn mess though. I think the moments with Drake and Elena in that game toward the end are excellent (I don't like the overall story, but I loved the Jeep Ride). But the route to get there could have been better.

 

[Marcel]

Many games just decide to ape movies instead of using their own unique language to convey a story. And usually those game stories that just ape movies aren't that good in the first place. It's perfectly valid for anyone to call game stories "shitty" as shorthand for "derivative plots that mimic blockbuster movies because we want the lowest common denominator audience that also see those movies".

 

[Mifec]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

Erm...what?

Nathan Drake is a terrible mix of tropes and far away from being a good char.

Unless you're baiting in which case das good.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[oni-link]

Posters have trouble attaching what game a screenshot is from, so I imagine it is exponentially more difficult to explain why a story or character arc isn't to their tastes.

Un junior this man

 

[Mesoian]

Uncharted 4's plotting is a goddamn mess though. I think the moments with Drake and Elena in that game toward the end are excellent. But the route to get there could have been better.

All of the plotting in every Uncharted game is a mess. It's a masterclass on characterization but all of those games are chasing Temple of Doom so hard, their stories devolve into silly pulp at best and something completely laughable at worst.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Player agency and choice gets in the way of really great storytelling, with all other types of media you don't have a rogue element trying to break things.

As it should be.

 

[Prince of Space]

Citizen Kane is The Last of Us of movies

 

[WolfeTone]

Saying that the "writing is bad" or something is "poorly written" without further discussion is just lazy criticism in my opinion. Often people feel the need to justify why they don't like something so they attach this label of "bad writing" to it as a weak attempt at providing some kind of explanation.

It happens with books and movies too. "I don't like something, therefore it is bad."

Are videogame stories shitty? Some are. Some aren't. There are many examples of good videogame stories and many of examples of bad videogame stories. Often the best videogame stories take advantage of the medium and don't try to ape movies, but there are examples of good stories in games that are a bit more "movie-like" too.

 

[PMS341]

Dialogue and writing is just as important as any game mechanic, if your game is focusing on the story elements as a whole. To fall short in this category would be the same as any other.

This comes up in media quite often. Perfect example was this week's Game of Thrones: without spoiling anything, the writing, pacing and generally careful details the series is (mostly) known for seem to have gone out the window for Plot Armor deflection and lack of logic, mainly due to the series wrapping up quickly without a proper ending technically complete. A core argument I saw come up was "Who CARES about [writing, plot twists, etc] in a world with dragons and magic?" almost as if the content of the medium was supposed to naturally detract from the work itself.

Writing is hard, dialogue is hard, and combining all of that into a core story with interesting characters, plot, setting, etc. is an incredibly difficult task. Now, intertwining that into a game that also feels good to play, physically, is what makes the medium unique. Unfortunately, some publishers focus more on the commercial (monetary) aspects that the budget and time allocation for story and writing doesn't always get priority. But, like all artwork - there is commercial art, and then everything else.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Because unlike other mediums, storytelling is not typically the focus. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of games (especially AAA) have narratives that are mostly average or weak.

However, yes, I do think there is a lot of hyperbole when it comes to calling out "shitty" stories. People here tend to exaggerate how bad a story is in a game.

 

[Matty77]

As long as games keep aping movies to tell their stories the comparison is fair and the stories are shit compared to movies.

However that is the issue more than quality. The more games learn to tell their stories through the strength of the medium and interaction with the player the faster we will get to game stories that can stand on their own as great art instead of comparisons to other media it brings upon itself.

 

[King Gilga]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

No one else writes compellingly fleshed-out, filmic characters in games.

A) I love the uncharted games but good stories they are not.

B) Stories and characters aren't the same thing.

I love plenty of characters in games.

Couldn't name a single one with a decent story tho.

 

[fredrancour]

It's really common because most users are here to be hyped over games with other people who like games. There's not a ton of interest in forming substantial critiques.

 

[Marcel]

As long as games keep aping movies to tell their stories the comparison is fair and the stories are shit compared to movies.

Yeah there's no reason to go easy on a game if all it wants to do is pretend it's a "filmic experience". If you decide to do that then I am going to judge you against the films you want to be and it's probably not going to be a kind judgment.

 

[QuantumSquid]

Most videogame stories are absolute garbage.

 

[shandy706]

Things are either Naughty Dog or they aren't.

I enjoy ND's stuff most of the time. I'm a big Uncharted fan. I didn't enjoy TLOU though.

I also really like Remedy's stuff.

There are actually quite a few companies that have some good stuff in their games. Irrational Games and Obsidian are on my list. I could probably come up with plenty.

There are quite a few studios that have put out good stuff story/character wise.

 

[mullet2000]

I think games get a way, way unfair stereotype here. Frankly I don't see a vast quality difference in this medium when compared to movies, television, etc. A lot of games have great, great writing this days.

Compare the average action game's writing to the average action movie's writing and frankly I think you're going to see that they line up pretty evenly in terms of quality (not very good). Go deeper and you'll find a lot with really excellent writing, too.

If you play Gears of War 4 or something and are shocked that the writing isn't great, then make a claim that game writing sucks...I don't know what to tell you. It would be like going to Transformers and saying "wow movie writing sucks". Go beyond AAA action fluff and you'll find a LOT of games with excellent writing by any standard. Just like movies. Just like TV. Just like books.

 

[WhatNXt]

Story usually isn't all that important to me, as I principally play games to have fun - but I can appreciate what's a well told, well presented story and what isn't.

One of the biggest turn offs for me in narrative gaming can be the voice acting. Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate how difficult it must be - both for the voice actors and the people producing the game (often in multiple languages) - but I do think the fact that so many big voice actors cut their teeth on (or also work in) cartoons really shows sometimes.

Honestly? I thought Zelda's voice actress was going to completely turn me off Breath of the Wild in the opening minutes. My interest in Final Fantasy games all but completely disappeared once they went talkie. I say this as someone who was incredibly excited when I first started playing talkie games on PC in the 90s - Day of the Tentacle, Under a Killing Moon, Dark Forces II Jedi Knight - that shit was amazing! But Final Fantasy? Somehow reading the protagonists words in my own mind, in my own voice, was more palatable than hearing them whined out in voices that can often break my immersion.

So a lot of it for me is down to the quality of the voice acting and voice direction. Sometimes it's just a case of poorly animated or interpolated lines of dialogue, awkward pauses, or robotic breaks that make a scene deviate from what would otherwise be a natural flow. This can't be avoided in some games, such as games that wait for user input (think games like Mass Effect or Life is Strange). Sometimes, the actor or actress is hamming up the emotion or their accent to a degree that you simply wouldn't hear in a quality TV or film production. Some games desperately want to be taken seriously as narrative art, but they SOUND like videogames, or at best - cartoons. I would agree that Naughty Dog's games, and maybe the Batman Arkham games, have set the bar for voice production quality and storytelling in games. Titanfall 2 had some awful cliché crap going on, story-wise, but the production quality was solid, and the game was really good.

Then there are the games where the voicework is perfectly good, but the story is just laughable. I personally enjoy shit-tastic action stories in games, so campaign modes in games like Call of Duty or Splinter Cell are a guilty pleasure for me. People have always lauded Metal Gear games for their story, but they are cheesy as hell. I think they're great, and they helped move things forward in marrying games and cinematic ambition together, as I'm sure Death Stranding will try to - but they're not yet something that you'd watch on HBO and spend all week talking about, or something you'd pay to watch in the cinema. They've just made games more tolerable for others to watch and take interest in.

edit:

Some of the best games I have played, in terms of story, haven't told their story in a cinematic way at all. Some Metroidvanias in recent years have done a really great job of telling stories through player exploration, implying events and building a game-world lore, without actually spelling it out for you. Game makers are definitely getting better at that!

 

[theRizzle]

I think a lot of stories are bad, especially "AAA" games.

But clearly there are games with good/great stories. For example, I am playing Ori right now, and I think that game has a fantastic story. It doesn't beat you over the head with it constantly, but what is there draws you in and I find it quite moving.

 

[Dance Inferno]

I mean...okay, but what does that have to do with this conversation?

It explains why people throw the word "shitty" around when discussing plot.

 

[Marcel]

I enjoy ND's stuff most of the time. I'm a big Uncharted fan. I didn't enjoy TLOU though.

I also really like Remedy's stuff.

There are actually quite a few companies that have some good stuff in their games. Irrational Games and Obsididan are on the list. I could probably come up with plenty.

There are quite a few studios that have put out good stuff story/character wise.

Modern Irrational Games probably isn't a great example. Bioshock's story basically checks out after the end of the 2nd act while you chase a generic 1930s gangster voiced man around and Bioshock Infinite is just an absolute mess after the shooting starts.