Oh man.
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DigitalFoundry: RotTR Xbox One X vs PS4 Pro First Look Graphics Comaprison
- Thread starter Colbert
- Start date
They didnt do a better job considering they're one year late and 100$ higher. Future might show that they made a wiser decision by choosing this path though, we'll see. The 1X is a great upgrade to xbox enthusiasts that's granted.
Sony
Nintendo
One X will never be the main development platform for multiplat games as long as games need to be playable across both concoles. It's much more feasible to scale up an Xbox One/PS4 game than to scale down an Xbox One X game.
Crayon
Member
Idk if that's true tho. I had been assuming the dog was all in background/forground stuff. If the face shots are taken from a screenshot where her face is far back enough into the scene, then it maybe could be effected by the dof. The thing that makes me question it is the way the PC face is soft looking.
Do we know or not sure?
Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.
Crayon
Member
Maybe different aa? I can see the PC one has more detail than the pro one, yet they both have the softness.
Edit: I'm sure you covered the aa type somewhere. I'm being hasty.
games aren't scaled up, assets are made high quality and then scaled down to fit hardware power. xbox wont be the lead platform and neither is playstation. for multiplatform games pc is the lead. if there is a console only multi platform then its likely xbox will be the lead going forward if it sells well.
oh man.
EDIT: come on bro you are reaching.
Colbert
Banned
This is the scene that was taken for the comparison based on Lara's face. No DoF on the PS4 Pro as well.
Beaten by dark10x:
Fredrik
Member
If that's the case, how do you suggest they do it if two versions are "smeared with dof" and one is not? This is how the games look so this is the comparison they can do. And to be fair, it goes both ways, there are those who think "smeared with dof" is a nice effect so I guess for them XBX essentially has the worst version in this comparison.
As for myself, I'll jump from PC to XBX on this game, I'm blown away by the differences and I'm still on 1080p screens on PC so the difference will be even bigger at my place. Nov 7th can't come soon enough!
I just hope more devs show this kind of X update support. Hopefully the Nixxes praise will push more devs off the fences, in the end I guess it's relatively cheap PR to update old favorites compared to make games from scratch.
Colbert
Banned
No DoF in this specific scene that was used for the comparison. See quote below and my comment just above yours!
Crayon
Member
I can see the pro one could be blown out from cb'ing, but the PC one should be sharp, too. Am I the one reaching?
Trainsmove
Banned
NO!
DOF has noting to with Native and CB. DOF WILL NOT change the sharpens but 4K
native will.
Wrong!
.
Right. the GPU has a Bus of 326bits but your RX only has 256bits every cycle'
.
yes of 256bits too X1X's 326bits
The RX580 is only 256GB/s that's not much faster than Ps4 Pro's 218GB/s that's why its a 1440p card.
That's real slow when you look at the Memory.
To the rest . well it's MAD!
Colbert
Banned
The X1X got a texture update the PC doesn't have. It was mentioned several times in this thread. That is the reason the X1X looks better. Nobody here is pretending that a PC would not be able to produce the same results if spec'ed accordingly with the same textures.
This is the scene that was taken for the comparison based on Lara's face. No DoF on the PS4 Pro as well.
Beaten by dark10x:
I totally understand people care for this kind of stuff, but i can barely see the difference.
A waste of GPU power on extra pixels. At least when comes to this game. Chasing 4k now, 8k in few years :/
Fredrik
Member
Cool then it's pretty much just the textures and resolution doing the work here. This bodes well for the future if the extra RAM for textures and power for higher res can give this kind of results.
Liabe Brave
Member
To be clear, I wasn't denigrating Digital Foundry's work. I think this approach is viable, and personal opinions as opposed to analysis are stated clearly as such in your videos and articles. I was just correcting an apparent misapprehension that DF doesn't include subjective takes (as if that were even possible for a critic!).
It's also missing reflections in Lara's eyes that are present even in the unenriched Pro mode. This may also be something they fix before release.
Could it be partially due to AA? I ask because one of the new features listed is improved AA, yes? If PC is using FXAA and One X not, that certainly could have the potential to create a disparity in sharpness across the image.
This was suggested to me by the three-way comparison of Lara's face that's in the OP. Playing around, it seems to take a 4-pixel-wide Gaussian blur to make the One X match the PC's soft image quality. And I don't mean just in the textures, which are clearly upgraded on One X. There's also sharp polygonal edge detail on the nostril and neck which is smeared out on PC. Given that we know categorically both images are the same exact resolution, it seems it shouldn't take a decently strong blur effect to make their edges match. (Of course, some FXAA methods would also blur the lower-res textures even further too.)
I'm not convinced that the only difference between One X and PC is the texture quality.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
That is a pretty bad pic. Here are some full res examples. The differences are more than just slight.
Some full-res screen caps:
PS4 Pro version looks blurrier than I remember. Definitely a nice upgrade on the One X, especially the texture upgrades. Those really make good use of the higher resolution. I do hope they add DoF back in though.
Goalus
Member
Why did i scroll down to the comment section.
Thanks for the heads-up. Went there looking for salt, didn't leave disappointed.
TheDeftone
Member
DOF is not an effect which is used on the entire screen to the same degree, just for backgrounds and some objects in the foreground mostly. So it does not affect the sharpness in the pics which were posted in here.
Again, read the post I was replying to instead of doing this whole multiquote thing, ripping context apart.
The person I quoted said that the game isn't good anyway to him so he doesn't understand all the attention the game gets. Which is nothing DF should and does care of. "Oh no, we won't do this article now, there is a random guy on a random forum on the internet who doesn't like it".
Additionally their opinion about a game is also not changed by a random guy on a random forum on the internet.
No, I don't have specific evidence... but honestly I dont see how it's required in order to infer that it's more likely that new texture assets made for a console with and additional 4GB of memory resulted in textures that would require that memory... especially as it would seem likely that the console versions would have been aimed to use up whatever was previously available.
ShadowFox08
Member
I thought Xbone X and PS4/Pro have the same GGDR5 memory speed? Xbone X obviously has more RAM and bandwidth though.
How do you define speed effectively?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I wasn't referring to future DF Analyses. Just games on One X in general. Dev kits haven't been sitting with 3rd party d es for very long. Games that are going to be built from scratch with One X in mind are going to look great.
Known about Scorpio and "Have a dev kit" are 2 different things. I really doubt Nixxes have had a dev kit for very long. Aren't the earliest reports of dev kits in the Wild with 3rd party devs like January this year?
Also keep in mind, this game came out in 2015. Scorpio was most certainly not a thing back then. So no, this game was not built with One X in mind. Nixxes, in a very short amount of time, jumped into Crystal Dynamics game and pushed it past the PC port.
This speaks volumes about the development environment with the One X. It's clearly a great platform for devs to get good results quickly.
Personally I think the best comparison would be Xbox vs X1X. Surely most interested buyers will be upgrading from Xbox so that is something theyd want to see - how big a difference does it make? Just like PS4 vs pro comparisons.
crazysapertonight
Member
No HBAO on XBox One X
MilkyJoe
Member
It's a fan favourite. Ignoring minimum and optimum specs have been a PC thing forever.
anothertech
Member
I know everyone is arguing that the RAM increase is the reason for the 'upgraded' textures but I call bs.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets, I'm positive Nix could update both PC and Pro version with the same quality assets as these new Xbonx assets, and have virtually everything the same save resolution differences, and the difference would be minimal, or about as apparent as Xbone/ps4 level difference.!maybe less due to the incredible checkerboard process.
What we are seeing here is far beyond what a normal comparison would be because the textures have been literally changed. The fact they are not on pc version says it all.
Pro version is checkerboard so there is no RAM issue with 4k assets, I'm positive Nix could update both PC and Pro version with the same quality assets as these new Xbonx assets, and have virtually everything the same save resolution differences, and the difference would be minimal, or about as apparent as Xbone/ps4 level difference.!maybe less due to the incredible checkerboard process.
What we are seeing here is far beyond what a normal comparison would be because the textures have been literally changed. The fact they are not on pc version says it all.
Sad Affleck
Member
Ideally, all platforms should be represented in every comparison. If a game is available on more than one platform then surely there are people out there who will want to know how the different versions compare. People considering an upgrade from a launch XB1 or PS4, people who want to buy a second console, early adopters, people deciding between a PC upgrade and a new console.
However, to be honest, I think that the main audience for these comparisons is, sadly, platform fanboys. Anecdotally, most people posting in these threads are way more interested in defending their favorite manufacturer or downplaying the competition than talking about technology or performance.
Nevertheless, I am glad that DF exists and does these comparisons. They may be fuel for platform wars but they also bring a game's performance into focus, highlight issues and educate the average gamer about things like frametimes, input lag, system tweaking and much more.
That is not correct and you know it. Apart from the upgraded textures, the texture resolution and the fact that X1X is native presents a more clearer and less blurred image. Yes, the upgraded textures can be added to the Pro but the result will be the same. It would still look much better on the X1X. Saying otherwise is simply lying to yourself. Also the difference isn't restricted to just the higher resolution textures and native 4k, there is also, the better hair, higher resolution shadows and AO as noted by DF.
The fact is; the X1X matches the high resolution textures used on PC and Nixxes decided to add some new textures to the X1X version. This could be added to the PC version and it would be able to use it with the same clarity.
No it doesn't say it all, because we've seen the PC version of the previous Tomb Raider not get updated as well, and that hardly "said it all" for the differences between the Definitive Edition and the game as it was on PS3/360. Same deal with DoA5LR.
The PS4P version being checkerboarded means very little. It would make sense for the previous textures to be effectively using all the memory budget the XB1 and PS4 had, and the PS4 Pro has almost none extra on top of that. Yes, the textures are redone... much like a high-res texture pack for other games often are. That doesn't mean those "high-res textures" dont actually require more memory... because they typically do. This is why MS plans to allow "4K assets" to be downloaded only on XB1X consoles, as the assets would require a larger download, and wouldn't make sense to download to a console that wouldn't have the memory to display them. The PS4 Pro is in that league with the XB1 and PS4.
PS4 Pro has an extra 1GB over the stock PS4, so increased texture resolution is not really an option, as there is not enough memory to hold them.
This is the case for most games that have made the jump from 1080p to 2160cb, the improvement in textures coming from a higher rendering resolution which shows the existing textures off better and improved texture filtering, which stops them going so blurry at oblique angles
Xbox X has an extra 4gb over the Stock Xbox and Ps4,
So the option of increasing texture resolution, is achievable.
I'm curious - how does checkerboarding affect texture usage? If the engine doesnt reference the textures when creating the 'in between' pixels, then does that mean there is less benefit for higher res textures because the effective resolution can only ever be the original pre-CB resolution?
Backfoggen
Banned
It seems to be very important now as one console has it and the other has not, so it must be something very crucial if the better system doesn't have it yet.
Checkerboaridng does reference the inbetween pixels, th checkerboard from the previous frame Are the inbetween pixels.
This functions almost for scenes with no camera or character movement and slow moving images , as the inbetween pixels are where they are if they had have been rendered natively.
So in the scenes such as Lara's face here, the checkerboard itself is not responsible for th lower IQ. Even more explicitly on textures such as the table and the walls.
As soon as you have any motion, that is when the checkerboard methods don't function quite as well as a native render.
The the exact same reason you get more ghosting and blur from a temporal anti aliasing solution on fast moving objects.
But when you think that developers are adding per object motion blur, lens effects or are maybe simply trying to achieve a more filmic /CG look, you can see that when a temporal approach is applied in conjunction with other appropriate techniques that you can achieve the artwork that the creators were envisaging anyway, or something that closely resembles that.
What? Checkerboarding has nothing to do with the detail of the textures being loaded.
The More detailed, the larger the texture is. The larger the texture, the more memory and bandwidth needed to push it. Xb1x has more memory and more bandwidth, so it can push more detailed textures. There's no way around this.
Then, even if both versions of RotTR could somehow use the same textures, the native 4k resolution will offer a better presentation of those textures.
I don't think it would have any significant effect the, as the checkboarding process relies on information from the previous frame, so similar to interlacing, I'd imagine you'd want the data from that frame to not simply be a duplicate of the current frame. So like having a lower res (900p vs 1080p) it may be less visually apparent in motion, but you'd ideally want a higher res texture in the first place.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah it's like the focal length in photography, the main object in the picture is in focus but things behind it will be out of focus, you're essentially showing the viewer what part of the picture they should look at. It's a really cool effect when used in the right way. But I won't cry if it never show up in the X version. If someone from Nixxes is lurking at the board - make DOF optional please.
How is that wrong? Out of the 12GB that the Xbox One has, 9GB are actually usable and 3GB are system reserved. Even the remaining 9GB won't all go towards the GPU. That's not how it works.
That type of Bokeh simulation is typically only used in cutscenes, its quite unusual to see it in gameplay.
Th original Xbox version ran at a higher resolution and with other effects in cutscenes than the game itself, which indicates it would still be there . I really dont have an issue when Im watching a cutscene
So basically, intentionally blurring a large portion of the image too draw focus to a specific area of the screen.
Is DoF a technically demanding effect? Or a liberating one?
I can see an artistic benefit to including it... but i could also understand why an artist would want it turned off to show off new assets.
Frozone
Member
To add to that, the extra ambient lighting in the XoX version makes it look worse and less realistic. The PC version has the proper light energy in the shadow areas. The hair is just taken at a different sim time.
Not a big difference as is seen (XoX vs. PC). The higher res textures do make a big difference with the PS4 Pro version though.
Frozone
Member
Nothing is free when rendering these kinds of features.