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[Jaguar Victory]

Ok so here's what I see in the difference: they painted Lara's jacket a slightly darker brown and added a few more white dots in the air in the XboneX version. That's how this shows up on my iPhone screen and I'm pretty sure it's a 4K screen. So, by my deduction, the variances are minimal at best.

But look, you people seem all roused up by the variances here.

Who's to say that these "erection-worthy" variances aren't due to the CPU of the PS4 just having a bad day? Sometimes my PC chugs along and sometimes it doesn't when I load up excel. Consoles work the same way.

I think there's a lot more subtle variances at work here that we all need to be cognizant of before we allow ourselves to be engorged by teasing out pixels.

I guess because they look similar on your 5" phone they will be the same stretched across my 60" 4KTV.

Spoiler

It won't

 

[Black_Stride]

No, this attitude is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM here that needs to be cured.

Let me use a good analogy to spell out the issue clearly. My 2013 Honda Accord is infinitely more complex than the car that i drove 20 years ago. There are a myriad of complex computer systems, safety systems, and the like. Does that mean I now need to tear apart my car to understand how it works? Absolutely not. It's about how the car FEELS when I drive it. That's where happiness is derived from.

Same goes for this academic exercise in attempting to measure and compare something that cannot and should not be measured. I know how those pictures of Lara make me FEEL. And that's all that matters.

CPUs of computers and consoles can't be pinned down like this. My xbox360 was a launch model and never crapped out once. It was a goddamned workhorse pumping out true blue dependable graphics. My current Xbox one makes a high pitched whining noise after I play SMITE that requires me to wear noise cancelling headphones.

What's the lesson learned here? Trends and numbers don't mean anything. Computers are unpredictable. And these screenshots cannot be trusted not can any conclusions be extrapolated from them.

Is this a troll account or something.
Im being serious i dont know if this guy is being serious or just messing with us.

 

[iHaunter]

Why would DF degrade the PC graphics?

Not DF, the developers.

They did the same exact thing for Watchdogs. Literally makes no sense to have better graphics on XBOXOX than PC. It's impossible.

 

[BigEmil]

Not DF, the developers.

They did the same exact thing for Watchdogs. Literally makes no sense to have better graphics on XBOXOX than PC. It's impossible.

It's a great marketing tactics for their game.

Xbox One X owners will go "Wow. Xbox One X version is better than PC version! Definite buy now!"

It's similar to what they did with TR 2013 DE make people double dip but not the same

 

[TheDeftone]

CPUs of computers and consoles can't be pinned down like this. My xbox360 was a launch model and never crapped out once. It was a goddamned workhorse pumping out true blue dependable graphics. My current Xbox one makes a high pitched whining noise after I play SMITE that requires me to wear noise cancelling headphones.

What's the lesson learned here? Trends and numbers don't mean anything. Computers are unpredictable. And these screenshots cannot be trusted not can any conclusions be extrapolated from them.

The only thing to learn here, is that built quality of components may vary.

 

[LelouchZero]

Not DF, the developers.

They did the same exact thing for Watchdogs. Literally makes no sense to have better graphics on XBOXOX than PC. It's impossible.

Crystal Dynamics and/or Nixxes went back and improved stuff for the Xbox One X version of the game, this is potentially a newer build of the game with some of the PC's features and then some more.

For the PC version it's a limitation of the software, not a hardware limitation, as the PC version appears to have an older build of the game which does not feature these improvements.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

The Witcher 3 comparison has the potential to be very interesting too. It remains to be seen what the new resolution will be for both but also if there will be additional visual enhancements.

Oh and I'm also interested in finding out if the loading times are indeed shorter for games like Risen of the Tomb Raider, Witcher 3 and so on. They did say all current games would automatically have shorter loading times, right?

 

[Frozone]

I can decipher between the texture difference and whatever the blur is. The upgraded textures are without a doubt there.

Yea, I'm not seeing this as an argument.. it's clear to see this.

 

[RavenHawk]

...My current Xbox one makes a high pitched whining noise after I play SMITE that requires me to wear noise cancelling headphones...

Your XBOX is simply crying out for attention. It obviously had a bad day.

 

[Hawk269]

Man.....some of the responses in this thread...

https://www.google.com/search?clien.....0i13i30k1.AKWnq1QE1Qc#imgrc=TKihlURm9TxdZM:

LMAO. The last time I was in this thread was back on page 10 or so when things were a little more calm, but damn catching up these last few pages there is a lot of hurt people and as you posted "denial".

Never change Gaf!!! lol

 

[dark10x]

Why are they intentionally degrading PC graphics so that XBox One X looks better?

There's no way a GTX 1080Ti looks worse than XBXX

Nobody downgraded anything. PC already includes higher res textures than PS4. Nixxes has simply created new assets once again, it would seem.

 

[Hawk269]

Nobody downgraded anything. PC already includes higher res textures than PS4. Nixxes has simply created new assets once again, it would seem.

Hey John....I know you are busy and probably taking some time off....but when will with Halo Wars 2 Xbox One X Story go up? It is one of my most played games and looking forward to it on the Xbox One X.

Thank You!

 

[Frozone]

Nobody downgraded anything. PC already includes higher res textures than PS4. Nixxes has simply created new assets once again, it would seem.

This. I think your thread has started a bit of a fire that's really unnecessary. This thread should not be as long as it's going. Oh well..

 

[ResoRai]

No, this attitude is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM here that needs to be cured.

Let me use a good analogy to spell out the issue clearly. My 2013 Honda Accord is infinitely more complex than the car that i drove 20 years ago. There are a myriad of complex computer systems, safety systems, and the like. Does that mean I now need to tear apart my car to understand how it works? Absolutely not. It's about how the car FEELS when I drive it. That's where happiness is derived from.

Same goes for this academic exercise in attempting to measure and compare something that cannot and should not be measured. I know how those pictures of Lara make me FEEL. And that's all that matters.

CPUs of computers and consoles can't be pinned down like this. My xbox360 was a launch model and never crapped out once. It was a goddamned workhorse pumping out true blue dependable graphics. My current Xbox one makes a high pitched whining noise after I play SMITE that requires me to wear noise cancelling headphones.

What's the lesson learned here? Trends and numbers don't mean anything. Computers are unpredictable. And these screenshots cannot be trusted not can any conclusions be extrapolated from them.

I never really see you post, but when I do it's always some crazy ass shit lol.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

This. I think your thread has started a bit of a fire that's really unnecessary. This thread should not be as long as it's going. Oh well..

In other words it's impossible to tell yet how big the true differences will be. It's now starting to sound like if Nixxes were to return to the Pro version they may be able to do the same. Or not because X can do higher res textures, Pro not.

The real tests so to speak in my opinion will be upcoming yet to be released games.

 

[Hawk269]

This. I think your thread has started a bit of a fire that's really unnecessary. This thread should not be as long as it's going. Oh well..

I hope that the folks at DF don't give a shit about people crying foul when there was no foul. Here is the thing....

This DF article was based off of a 2+ minute hi-res video they were given and that is what they used to make the comparisons. If a 2+minute analysis by John and his team is causing this much reaction...Gaf is going to go nuclear when they are able to have hand-on's direct feed that they themselves capture on real hardware and released code come November 7th or thereabouts.

This is a just a pre-cursor of things to come and it people are loosing their shit now with this article/comparison it is going to get real ugly real fast around these parts.

 

[Fredrik]

The Witcher 3 comparison has the potential to be very interesting too. It remains to be seen what the new resolution will be for both but also if there will be additional visual enhancements.

Oh and I'm also interested in finding out if the loading times are indeed shorter for games like Risen of the Tomb Raider, Witcher 3 and so on. They did say all current games would automatically have shorter loading times, right?

The Witcher 3, yup that will be a hot potato for sure, especially if Pro gets lower resolution which could cause the XBX version to run worse. Going for native 4K won't always be the best idea.

 

[Colbert]

Nobody downgraded anything. PC already includes higher res textures than PS4. Nixxes has simply created new assets once again, it would seem.

Thx for stepping in. People losing their minds a little bit.

 

[papersleeves]

With DOF

Without DOF

Note that the textures on the wall are no longer blurred out, also look at how sharper the belt and parts of her clothing below the belt is with DOF off...


This is papersleeve's shots btw...Papersleeve, could you take some shots of the game with DOF on and off... where she takes the artifact? The one with the green jacket.....

Yes I will! I only need to actually get there. I just got the game. First run on PC.

It simply amazes me that people are purposely and blindly discarding the Depth of Field to push their agenda. First, Depth of Field is a costly graphic feature which can eat as much as 5-6 fps when playing at 4k max settings, especially during cutscenes so disabling it actually free resources. While DoF isn't always preferred depending of your taste, Having it enabled is more costly for the gpu.

Also, Lara's dirty face texture on Xbox One X is already in the game on PC and most likely PS4/Xbox One too (see the comparison I've made). Dirty textures on Lara appears to be dynamic and depends on what you do with Lara. It's not new assets exclusive for the XOX. Maybe there are, so far I've yet to see any except for a couple reworked, different textures that are in no way better than pc highest setting.

Second, DoF serves not only to blur the background but to actually focus on a specific plane in the screen. As such, you can have the focus on an object not far off from the camera while having blur on objects really close and further away at the same time. this is why Lara is actually a little bit blurrier in the DoF comparison pics that I've made. You can actually see this very easily if you switch from tabs to tabs (assuming you open each screenshot in its own tab). In the relic scene, it appears the focus is on the table, which explain why Lara is also a little bit blurry, though not to the extend of the background, but still enough to bias the screenshot comparison from Digital Foundry.

Speaking of Digital Foundry, I'm not sure why they didn't propose another set of PC / XOX comparison with DoF disabled on the PC version. If anything, their current comparison is missing crucial elements and the way it is right now only adds fuel to the fire for uneducated people regarding this topic. These guys are "professional". They should know better.

 

[Legend of Aims]

If the x1x has newer assets then isn't the comparison to the pro a bit misleading. Like put a disclaimer.

 

[Duderino]

You know what the sad part is about all this high resolution character texture debate? Bumping up base map texture resolutions to rediculous sizes, like 4098x4098, is actually a pretty inefficient way to gain higher definition micro detail.

See Naughty Dogs work on Uncharted for both for cloth and skin, utilizing small micro detail maps to construct what is ultimately a very high fidelity, scaleable asset. The character texture quality on display in Uncharted 4 is limited more by the render resolution than the available texture ram.

...and trust me, this way of working is what we all should be hoping more developers adopt moving forward. Unless you love the idea of downloading and making room for stupidly large 4k texture packs because bigger has to be better, right?

 

[papersleeves]

edit: double post

 

[Frozone]

Yes I will! I only need to actually get there. I just got the game. First run on PC.

It simply amazes me that people are purposely and blindly discarding the Depth of Field to push their agenda. First, Depth of Field is a costly graphic feature which can eat as much as 5-6 fps when playing at 4k max settings, especially during cutscenes so disabling it actually free resources. While DoF isn't always preferred depending of your taste, Having it enabled is more costly for the gpu.

Also, Lara's dirty face texture on Xbox One X is already in the game on PC and most likely PS4/Xbox One too (see the comparison I've made). Dirty textures on Lara appears to be dynamic and depends on what you do with Lara. It's not new assets exclusive for the XOX. Maybe there are, so far I've yet to see any except for a couple reworked, different textures that are in no way better than pc highest setting.

I don't believe this. Dynamic textures can be placed so that they don't appear to have a pattern but they still have to be chosen from a "bank" of textures. And texturing is usually layered heavily these days (i.e. more than one texture can occupy the same uv location). Something like a decal on the face won't be as 'random' as you put it for the main character of a game. It's more possible that the extra muddy texture is an added texture that blends with the other color textures - not some random seed that didn't pick that texture for Laura's face.

I personally think the PC version of that comparison looks the best and the most realistic. But that's due to the lack of DOF post process in the X1X version which makes things look too 'contrasty' for my tastes. I don't think dark10x is trying to show favor of one platform vs. the other. I just think that we are seeing exactly what is being shown. Larger or "added" textures, better filtering, and obviously native 4k rendering will present a better image.

 

[papersleeves]

I don't believe this. Dynamic textures can be placed so that they don't appear to have a pattern but they still have to be chosen from a "bank" of textures. And texturing is usually layered heavily these days (i.e. more than one texture can occupy the same uv location). Something like a decal on the face won't be as 'random' as you put it for the main character of a game. It's more possible that the extra muddy texture is an added texture that blends with the other color textures - not some random seed that didn't pick that texture for Laura's face.

I perfectly agree on that. I never implied the texture were created on the fly, or "random". It's obviously a bank of textures that the engine chooses depending of the circumstance. Not exactly sure what you disagree with...

 

[rodrigolfp]

Are you saying FXAA was used on PS4 PRO and perhaps TAA is used on XBONEX?

no. i am saying the PC shot is blurry as hell maybe because is using the defaut shitty FXAA, or it is even just a bad shot. no way on PC at native 4k it would look that bad...

 

[Beerman462]

People downplaying the improvements to the Xbox X version of the game, questioning the need to zoom in "1000" times to see a difference and un-ironically questioning why the thread is still going....hmm.

 

[Dictator93]

Has anyone tried to disable settings on PC to the scene featured here?

You can see 2160cb is not up to the resolution of PC or XBX, the details are simply not there on Pro but the same resolution details in the PC/XBX like the eye lashes, PC has some processing or blur of some sort, focal DOF?

I have the game and a 1070 but it's been a while.

PC seems to have DOF on, mystery solved.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

The Witcher 3, yup that will be a hot potato for sure, especially if Pro gets lower resolution which could cause the XBX version to run worse. Going for native 4K won't always be the best idea.

I have faith in CDPR that they will bring a great patch to X. And the fact that they announced that a patch was coming after MS unveiled the One X is telling. Because their answer if there would be a patch for Pro last year was quite clear.

 

[Colbert]

PC seems to have DOF on, mystery solved.

Problem not solved. I wished people would actually read whats written in a thread! See post of John Linnemann below:

Those faces aren't impacted by depth of field as the DoF effect is not very shallow in that scene to begin with. I thought it was motion blur at first but, looking closer at the footage frame by frame, that doesn't even seem to be the case.

Will add it to the OP.

 

[Eclectic Sk3ptic]

Can anyone explain me this comparison? I mean the Pro and the PC can't render some dirt and dried blood on Lara's face? why are those details absent on those platforms than?

The dirt and bruises appear to be dynamic. The following 1080p PC footage looks very different from the PC capture in the OP. 4K would bring out even more detail to that scene.

https://youtu.be/j8_yBGKRshw?t=1h18m30s

 

[TheDeftone]

Speaking of Digital Foundry, I'm not sure why they didn't propose another set of PC / XOX comparison with DoF disabled on the PC version. If anything, their current comparison is missing crucial elements and the way it is right now only adds fuel to the fire for uneducated people regarding this topic. These guys are "professional". They should know better.

Why should they? In comparisons like these it`s always console versions vs maxed out PC version. In this case all maxed out "modes" are compared. The XOX version in the current state obviously lacks DOF, which might be a reason for a sharper image but not necessarily.

 

[c0de]

I'm not 100% sure if the blood & dirt standing out on her skin so much as a texture is a feature or a defect.

It's Metal Gear again.

 

[thelastword]

Yes I will! I only need to actually get there. I just got the game. First run on PC.

It simply amazes me that people are purposely and blindly discarding the Depth of Field to push their agenda. First, Depth of Field is a costly graphic feature which can eat as much as 5-6 fps when playing at 4k max settings, especially during cutscenes so disabling it actually free resources. While DoF isn't always preferred depending of your taste, Having it enabled is more costly for the gpu.

Also, Lara's dirty face texture on Xbox One X is already in the game on PC and most likely PS4/Xbox One too (see the comparison I've made). Dirty textures on Lara appears to be dynamic and depends on what you do with Lara. It's not new assets exclusive for the XOX. Maybe there are, so far I've yet to see any except for a couple reworked, different textures that are in no way better than pc highest setting.

Second, DoF serves not only to blur the background but to actually focus on a specific plane in the screen. As such, you can have the focus on an object not far off from the camera while having blur on objects really close and further away at the same time. this is why Lara is actually a little bit blurrier in the DoF comparison pics that I've made. You can actually see this very easily if you switch from tabs to tabs (assuming you open each screenshot in its own tab). In the relic scene, it appears the focus is on the table, which explain why Lara is also a little bit blurry, though not to the extend of the background, but still enough to bias the screenshot comparison from Digital Foundry.

Speaking of Digital Foundry, I'm not sure why they didn't propose another set of PC / XOX comparison with DoF disabled on the PC version. If anything, their current comparison is missing crucial elements and the way it is right now only adds fuel to the fire for uneducated people regarding this topic. These guys are "professional". They should know better.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.............Though. I can't believe some people are pretending DOF has no impact on the visible textures being compared here...sigh....It's just a bad comparison in making a claim for the updated textures on the XBONEX with the effect being off on XB.....

I do agree that all of these shots people are blowing out of proportion from the XB trailer, some people even calling the PRO a gen behind in some instances can be compared with the PC version at ultra....Why didn't we get PC Dof off + Dof on comparison like you did? and compare that to the XB version and the PRO as well, It's only fair. That can be done in that mural screenshot and the one with the artifact...I think these were the two areas where they make a point on upgraded textures...I'm holding verdict on how impactful or better these 4k textures are against other platforms unless we see a 1:1 comparison....

In the meantime, the comparison guys at DF can do a better comparison with PC, since they can disable DOF on that version, they can also show differences in the PC version against the XB version since some people are claiming that textures, assets etc are better on XBONEX...I'd love to see the differences pointed out and highlighted tbh...

 

[Dictator93]

Problem not solved. I wished people would actually read whats written in a thread! See post of John Linnemann below:


Will add it to the OP.

Long threaed, have not read every page. My bad.

Unexplainable difference then IMO, some other post processing?

 

[Space_nut]

Xbox One X >>>>> pro

Then end

 

[onQ123]

It's Metal Gear again.

What happened with Metal Gear?

 

[Colbert]

Unexplainable difference then IMO, some other post processing?

I don't know.

In my opinion the objective of those comparisons is to judge if a new device can hold up to what the best of bread is able to deliver. The best of bread to compare against was PS4 Pro for consoles and is PC. The main take away from this comparison for me is

a) the Xbox One X has noticeable advantages against a PS4 Pro.
b) the Xbox One X can get near PC quality (or in some cases match it).

Spoiler

Yes I know the PC runs the game at a higher frame rate!

 

[spannicus]

Wheres the pixelated Antonio Banderes Gif when you need it?

 

[mysteriousmage09]

What a shit show of a thread.

People praising sharpness when DoF is missing and the damn dried blood and dirt isn't even new added detail.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

What a shit show of a thread.

People praising sharpness when DoF is missing and the damn dried blood and dirt isn't even new added detail.

You might want to read the thread

 

[papersleeves]

Problem not solved. I wished people would actually read whats written in a thread! See post of John Linnemann below:


Will add it to the OP.

I think John is wrong on this case, as demonstrated with the picture comparison I've made previously. As soon as I reach the artifact scene, I'll do another comparison to show the difference between DoF on and off.

 

[TGO]

Best wait till the X One X releases and people start posting captures, while I'm sure DF and John has done a great job like always Direct captures off PC and PS4Pro looks nothing like the comparisons
The face one is odd because it's a cutscene and I have gameplay captures that shows Lara with more detail, hell I can the pores in her skin but that shot doing the rounds is smudgeville .
Also..

Am I missing something here?

 

[thelastword]

no. i am saying the PC shot is blurry as hell maybe because is using the defaut shitty FXAA, or it is even just a bad shot. no way on PC at native 4k it would look that bad...

It just can't be FXAA, because lara's face is zoomed from a bigger shot which has visible DOF on other platforms, where as the XB version does not....If I had the PC version I would have posted some 4k screens, DOF on and off, FXAA on or off, if there is a toggle for that...

Many questions still looms, but I think the first thing we can do here is to do some PC comparisons with the best textures, best settings against XBONEX and see what was really improved...1:1 obviously, dof off, certain reflections off as highlighted by Liabe Brave earlier,,and of course with these things on to see what has not been implemented in the XB version yet..

 

[Colbert]

I think John is wrong on this case, as demonstrated with the picture comparison I've made previously. As soon as I reach the artifact scene, I'll do another comparison to show the difference between DoF on and off.

I appreciate your effort but don't waste your time. Just wait for the release of the game. There will be the same face-off again. This was all based on X1X alpha code, who know if DoF is added again.

 

[papersleeves]

It just can't be FXAA, because lara's face is zoomed from a bigger shot which has visible DOF on other platforms, where as the XB version does not....If I had the PC version I would have posted some 4k screens, DOF on and off, FXAA on or off, if there is a toggle for that...

Many questions still looms, but I think the first thing we can do here is to do some PC comparisons with the best textures, best settings against XBONEX and see what was really improved...1:1 obviously, dof off, certain reflections off as highlighted by Liabe Brave earlier,,and of course with these things on to see what has not been implemented in the XB version yet..

I can do these comparisons...as soon as I am farther away in the game. Why should I downscale the reflections by the way?

 

[EvB]

The dirt and bruises appear to be dynamic. The following 1080p PC footage looks very different from the PC capture in the OP. 4K would bring out even more detail to that scene.

https://youtu.be/j8_yBGKRshw?t=1h18m30s

Yeah, I mean, you can see those textures on the PS4/PC version of the screenshot everyone is look at, the details are just suer faint.

Is it just that she gets bloodier the more damage you take and this is what we are seeing?

 

[TGO]

Yeah, I mean, you can see those textures on the PS4/PC version of the screenshot everyone is look at, the details are just suer faint.

Is it just that she gets bloodier the more damage you take and this is what we are seeing?

Yep, I've got captures from a OG PS4, one with dirt all over the over completely clean because I reloaded the level.
here they are

 

[Harlequin]

The dirt and bruises appear to be dynamic. The following 1080p PC footage looks very different from the PC capture in the OP. 4K would bring out even more detail to that scene.

https://youtu.be/j8_yBGKRshw?t=1h18m30s

That sounds like a good explanation.

 

[cyen]

DF threads comparing XBOX one X games vs PS4 Pro will be glorious. Better get good stock of popcorn.

 

[Eclectic Sk3ptic]

Yeah, I mean, you can see those textures on the PS4/PC version of the screenshot everyone is look at, the details are just suer faint.

Is it just that she gets bloodier the more damage you take and this is what we are seeing?

I'm not sure, but it looks like it. If I had a save near that location I'd take a proper uncompressed 4K/maxed PC screenshot to be sure, but unfortunately I don't.