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[Evilisk]

That sounds like Windows going to sleep from "inactivity" due to no mouse/keyboard input. Do you use a controller to play Touhou? Does the computer still sleep when you use keyboard?
Changing the power settings so that Windows doesn't sleep isn't too difficult to do.

Nah I only use keyboard for PC (I don't play many PC games tbh)

And I don't have any sleep settings on my computer. It used to but even then, it wasn't set to go to sleep after just five minutes of inactivity. This forced standby also doesn't happen for any of the other Touhou games (not the recent ones either)

Well it doesn't matter too much, since I'm borrowing a laptop with Windows 10 to play the game

 

[dadjumper]

Woah, is the full version of 16 out finally? I loved the demo

 

[Evilisk]

I've played a bit more, and I think I'm settling on Summer for the subshot. It seems like it'll be way more useful than the other ones if only for the multiple releases. (I also heard that the last spellcard for Summer isn't too bad either heh). I just have decide on a main shot. Either Marisa or Cirno. They both have useful bombs, though with Cirno I don't have to worry about my positioning during spellcards (at the same time, I'm not the biggest Cirno fan...)

Some other impressions:
-The bosses feel really weird. Most spellcards feel really easy, while there are others that are really tough (like that Golem spellcard, or Aunn's curved laser spellcard). While I'm gonna chalk it up to ZUN designing those phases with releases in mind, it feels kind of off to me. This might just be me (or it might be how Normal difficulty has been balanced; I certainly can't speak for the higher difficulties)

-The soundtrack for this game is... not great. It's not bad, it still has some lovely stage themes and a few beautiful boss themes, but that is precisely my issue; the stage themes here, on average, are way better than the boss ones (and to me, that makes for a weak Touhou soundtrack). It also sounds like some weird mix of 12 and 13 in parts (most notable with stage 2 and stage 6 themes, and Komano and Narumi's themes). There also seem to be a few connections to those games, though I won't get into it now.

-Matara switching up the backgrounds during her fight is kinda cool. Same with what happens with her final spellcard

-One of the sisters keeps running off during Spellcard practice. I'm assuming this is a bug

-Also, the main Wiki hasn't been updated but I've been reading up that Eternity is apparently

Spoiler

a God of some kind?

I don't even know what is up with that.

Woah, is the full version of 16 out finally? I loved the demo

Yeah it's out

(This thread only ever gets posts when there's a new game release lol)

 

[ibyea]

-The bosses feel really weird. Most spellcards feel really easy, while there are others that are really tough (like that Golem spellcard, or Aunn's curved laser spellcard). While I'm gonna chalk it up to ZUN designing those phases with releases in mind, it feels kind of off to me. This might just be me (or it might be how Normal difficulty has been balanced; I certainly can't speak for the higher difficulties)

I also think the difficulty balance is really off. The first three stages are really easy, and then there is an extremely sharp uptick in difficulty in stage 4. Stage 5 is ridiculously difficult because the boss pattern is all based around a pair of clockwise/anticlockwise pattern at the same time, which at the same time are really fast and move in strange ways. So either the release system feels like an afterthought added or the game is completely unreasonable without it.

 

[Zweizer]

(This thread only ever gets posts when there's a new game release lol)

Strangely enough fan works don't seem to attract much interest here. Probably because the community here is relatively small, and all looking for different things in the fan works.

 

[Evilisk]

I also think the difficulty balance is really off. The first three stages are really easy, and then there is an extremely sharp uptick in difficulty in stage 4. Stage 5 is ridiculously difficult because the boss pattern is all based around a pair of clockwise/anticlockwise pattern at the same time, which at the same time are really fast and move in strange ways. So either the release system feels like an afterthought added or the game is completely unreasonable without it.

Now that you mention it, the first three stages are strangely easy (I only just realized earlier that stage 3 is fairly trivial if you stream carefully, so it's not as difficult as I thought).

I don't know whether the releases were an afterthought or if the game is too dependent on the mechanic as a whole since I haven't played enough (and again, I'm only playing Normal, and I'm aware that ZUN has misbalanced a few difficulties in the past; it might not apply to all difficulties).

I do think it's not thought out well in the case of bossfights though. I'll need to play a bit more, but I am noticing that pattern of "easy spellcard, ridiculously hard spellcard (Golem), easy one again". And (IMO) it seems like a very simplistic solution to having a system like the release (a mechanic that would feel more fitting in a spinoff) in a regular, mainline game with normally balanced spellcards.

Strangely enough fan works don't seem to attract much interest here. Probably because the community here is relatively small, and all looking for different things in the fan works.

Personally, I don't mind talking fan works but I try to keep it mostly to fangames since this is Gaming Side (and I haven't played any fangames since I've started focusing on 1ccing the main games first)

 

[jonjonaug]

Anyone know how to reduce the dead zone for controller users? Feels larger than usual.

Also if anyone can explain the mechanics to this one that'd be nice.

EDIT: Never mind should've looked at the config menu first.

 

[shockdude]

Strangely enough fan works don't seem to attract much interest here. Probably because the community here is relatively small, and all looking for different things in the fan works.

Personally, I don't mind talking fan works but I try to keep it mostly to fangames since this is Gaming Side (and I haven't played any fangames since I've started focusing on 1ccing the main games first)

yeah I'm personally not really into fanworks. Only proper fangame I've played is CtC.
The official works are cool though. A few months ago I caught up with Forbidden Scrollery after hearing about Chapter 50, and had a good time.

That being said, discussion does tend to happen whenever someone brings up music circles.

Also if anyone can explain the mechanics to this one that'd be nice.

Set up Thcrap for English translations if you haven't done so already. All the mechanics are pretty decently explained in the in-game manual.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

We could also talk about the Touhou side stuff, like the CDs and manga. I mean this is a gaming side thread but surely it's not a crime to talk about official material related to a game series in its community thread, right?

 

[Evilisk]

I finally read up on that whole "Eternity is a God bit" from Cirno's Extra. It's interesting, though since it's not reflected in her official profile, and the context of that bit is Matara speculating on the idea herself, I'm not sure it's hard fact. Conversely, maybe it's true and ZUN has decided to be intentionally misleading with her profile, which seems like a first for ZUN.

Well regardless of her status in the official works, I'm sure this'll lead to some interesting fanworks

We could also talk about the Touhou side stuff, like the CDs and manga. I mean this is a gaming side thread but surely it's not a crime to talk about official material related to a game series in its community thread, right?

I don't see anything wrong with discussing official side materials

I actually forgot about keeping up with the different official manga series tbh. Nothing against ZUN's writing ability, this just happens to me with every series I follow that's not released weekly lol. I heard Forbidden Scrollery just finished, so I might catch up on that soon.

On the CD's, I haven't actually gotten to listening to any of the CD's yet. Like I'm aware of the some of the music (like Innocent Treasures) but I don't know anything about the side story that's going on there (like whoever Maribel and Renko are). I'll definitely post about it here when I get around to listening to them

Also if anyone can explain the mechanics to this one that'd be nice.

EDIT: Never mind should've looked at the config menu first.

Shockdude's already mentioned the translated in-game manual

There's also this MOTK thread that briefly explains things https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20979.0.html

(I was gonna link to the Wiki, but there's no in-depth gameplay page yet)

 

[poipoipoi9]

I was thinking Larva's (potential) identity as God of Perpetual Night may be Zun referencing the Ex-Rumia fan theory thing. (Where Rumia is actually a super strong Youkai of Darkness but the ribbon is what seals her powers), right down to the speculative nature of the theory.

Personally I like it and I hope the fans run wild with it as with other crazy intercharacter-relationship stuff(Okina being Kawakatsu also opens up so many other possibilities), so long as Larva isn't forgotten in 3 months.

 

[shockdude]

I don't see anything wrong with discussing official side materials

I actually forgot about keeping up with the different official manga series tbh. Nothing against ZUN's writing ability, this just happens to me with every series I follow that's not released weekly lol. I heard Forbidden Scrollery just finished, so I might catch up on that soon.

On the CD's, I haven't actually gotten to listening to any of the CD's yet. Like I'm aware of the some of the music (like Innocent Treasures) but I don't know anything about the side story that's going on there (like whoever Maribel and Renko are). I'll definitely post about it here when I get around to listening to them

I don't see anything wrong with official works discussion either. IIRC there's a Halo Lore thread, after all.

Forbidden Scrollery does a good job exploring how unsettling it is to live in Gensokyo when you're not an overpowered danmaku wielder. It's an enjoyable read.
The music CDs are also fun. I highly recommend reading each story blurb while listening to its corresponding music track, as that's what ZUN intended and it works really well.

 

[Evilisk]

I found a link that sort of explains what's going on with Eternity, for anyone curious

Forbidden Scrollery does a good job exploring how unsettling it is to live in Gensokyo when you're not an overpowered danmaku wielder. It's an enjoyable read.
The music CDs are also fun. I highly recommend reading each story blurb while listening to its corresponding music track, as that's what ZUN intended and it works really well.

Yeah I've noticed FS is a bit 'darker' compared to Reimu's constant "get donations quick" shenanigans of WaHH.

Also thanks for the heads up on the story blurbs.

I was thinking Larva's (potential) identity as God of Perpetual Night may be Zun referencing the Ex-Rumia fan theory thing. (Where Rumia is actually a super strong Youkai of Darkness but the ribbon is what seals her powers), right down to the speculative nature of the theory.

Personally I like it and I hope the fans run wild with it as with other crazy intercharacter-relationship stuff(Okina being Kawakatsu also opens up so many other possibilities), so long as Larva isn't forgotten in 3 months.

The idea of that being some sort of commentary on Rumia and EX Rumia would be pretty hilarious (I just realized we even have Eternity being a Stage 1 boss, like Rumia, while the speculation is made in an EX stage...)

(wall of text warning)

On the bolded part, that reminds me, 16 seems to be tied a lot to Touhou 12/13/13.5/the Religion Wars mini-arc, that it almost feels like it should have been the game after TD/HM rather than DDC. I mentioned the music; it feels like TD in some places (stage 2 and stage 6) while I also noticed the accordion used heavily in UFO appears for Komano and Narumi's boss themes and they both have Buddhist connection (with Narumi as a Jizou statue and Komano's title being "Guardian Beast Devoted to Shintoism and Buddhism)

Then we have Okina who is coming off to me as the Yukari analogue for Gods/religion (compared to Yukari and youkai). Like her species is Secret God, and she definitely has ties to Buddhism (both with her real life inspiration, and in Aya's EX where her ancestors are mentioned as "[hiding] behind the Buddha") so that ties her to Touhou 12. But then she's also connected to Miko too apparently.

Because, aide from Miko also practicing Buddhism (though only as part of her ploy to subjugate ancient Japan), Okina also seems to be Hata no Kawakatsu who apparently has a connection to the real life Prince Shotoku (that Miko is based on). And then apparently, Hata no Kawakatsu was part of the influence behind Hata no Kokoro too, and that character was already supposed to be tie 12 and 13 together IIRC (and Okina is also noted as being a God of Noh performances too, on top of THAT)

Maybe I'm reading into things too much (or I'm misinterpreting a lot, it could be that) but Okina feels really weird to have when we're two games separated from the religion themed games.

 

[ibyea]

On the CD's, I haven't actually gotten to listening to any of the CD's yet. Like I'm aware of the some of the music (like Innocent Treasures) but I don't know anything about the side story that's going on there (like whoever Maribel and Renko are). I'll definitely post about it here when I get around to listening to them

Oh man, ZUN's music CD is really worth it. They have some of the best tracks he has ever done, especially the Magical Astronomy CD.

 

[demidar]

One of the FS volumes I read contained murder.

>_>

FS is indeed darker than most of the other official materials.

 

[poipoipoi9]

One of the FS volumes I read contained murder.

>_>

FS is indeed darker than most of the other official materials.

It isn't as bad as Dolls in Pseudo Paradise.
FS still has lighthearted moments dominating the atmosphere.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

FS Reimu is about cleaning up Gensokyo, and WaHH Reimu is about cleaning up wallets.

TBH I don't like WaHH Reimu, she feels like the canon embodiment of all those "Reimu loves money" memes. Give me more "Reimu is a bloodthirsty youkai exterminator

Spoiler

(not really)

" stuff

 

[shockdude]

The whole Cirno route is one of the weirdest things ZUN has ever done in Touhou, with God Eternity being the biggest highlight.

It isn't as bad as Dolls in Pseudo Paradise.
FS still has lighthearted moments dominating the atmosphere.

FS Reimu is about cleaning up Gensokyo, and WaHH Reimu is about cleaning up wallets.

TBH I don't like WaHH Reimu, she feels like the canon embodiment of all those "Reimu loves money" memes. Give me more "Reimu is a bloodthirsty youkai exterminator

Spoiler

(not really)

" stuff

Yeah a good chunk of the fun in FS is the juxtaposition of potentially serious events with the typical Gensokyo goofiness. Kind of like the games, actually.

Regarding WaHH Reimu, remember that the mangas are from the point of view of the protagonist. Kosuzu in FS is a normal human who sees Reimu as wise and awesome. Kasen in WaHH is a "hermit", and she's very perceptive of Reimu's laziness and greediness.

 

[Evilisk]

After playing and listening all week to HSIF's soundtrack, I think I'd have to put it around 12/13 (note: for me, those soundtracks are on the weaker side). The stage themes really are great, and I think some are just as good, if not better, than LoLK's ones. The boss themes are really hit and miss for me though. I still love the Back Dancers themes and I've really warmed up to Eternity and Komano's themes. But I'm pretty eh on Nemuno and Narumi's themes; I don't really like the instruments in Nemuno's theme and Narumi's theme is kinda forgettable to me (sans that lovely piano bit in the middle)

I'm actually not sure how I feel on Matara's two themes yet. I like the instruments in her main game theme, and I'm starting to like the second half of her extra theme, but nothing really jumped or stood out to me at first. In terms of listening, the two themes have been a really slow burn, and usually I can make up my mind on a final boss theme pretty quickly so I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

I did find this cool gameboy arrange of Concealed Four Seasons while looking for some piano/synthesia arranges of her themes to help me make up my mind.

Slightly related (since we're talking music), I stumbled onto this useful video that goes into the types of 'instruments' ZUN uses in the official Touhou soundtracks (I just learned it was a sax, and not an accordion, that was used heavily in UFO).

I guess this also popped up in my suggestions, "What is Touhou music?"

 

[demidar]

That "What kind of instruments..." video is super cool. Being a good composer must be hard af.

 

[shockdude]

Slightly related (since we're talking music), I stumbled onto this useful video that goes into the types of 'instruments' ZUN uses in the official Touhou soundtracks (I just learned it was a sax, and not an accordion, that was used heavily in UFO).

That "What kind of instruments..." video is super cool. Being a good composer must be hard af.

Nice.
A couple weeks ago I stumbled across a blog which had a similar purpose of identifying and documenting ZUN's instruments: https://gensokyo-decipherer.tumblr.com/.
There haven't been any updates to it since July, which is a shame as the instruments are really cool.

 

[RRockman]

How did you guys get into Gaming discussion?


Magic?

 

[shockdude]

How did you guys get into Gaming discussion?


Magic?

because video games?

 

[RRockman]

because video games?

Probably.

I was curious cause most community threads are sent down to gaming communities. I was hoping the Magic? line would be taken as a joke considering the thread's subject matter but it seems like I over stepped my bounds. Sorry.

 

[shockdude]

Probably.

I was curious cause most community threads are sent down to gaming communities. I was hoping the Magic? line would be taken as a joke considering the thread's subject matter but it seems like I over stepped my bounds. Sorry.

Ah, no hard feelings.

IIRC community threads only get sent to Community if they have lots of daily activity and would otherwise take up continuous space on the Gaming Discussion side.
In other words, they get moved when they actually have a community lol.

 

[RRockman]

Ah, no hard feelings.

IIRC community threads only get sent to Community if they have lots of daily activity and would otherwise take up continuous space on the Gaming Discussion side.
In other words, they get moved when they actually have a community lol.

Oh, ok. That's a shame, honestly though Touhou was more popular. Reimu is pretty cool.

 

[Evilisk]

I had to return the laptop I borrowed, so no more HSiFS for now. I ended up only clearing the game on Easy only (I heard you could unlock the Extra even with an easy clear so I gave it a quick try). As someone that's actually played and cleared a bunch of the main games on Easy, it's definitely easy, it's not like, say, PCB "Easy" (which feels barely any different from Normal for the later bosses)

I didn't get to clear the Extra but it seems pretty easy to me. I managed to actually get to Matara on my first try (it took me ages just to be able to start Mokou and Raiko's fights) and I got halfway through her fight on my last run. I think with more time I'd have a decent shot at clearing the Extra (which would make it my first EX Clear) but I guess that'll have to wait for now. I'm kinda done with HSiFS for the moment (for obvious reasons, though I'm also getting a bit too distracted from my rl stuff). I will say, it's been a nice surprise to have a game and some new characters with ties to TH13 (I love the TD cast)


I also wanted to mention that I started listening to the Music CD's, beginning with Dolls in Pseudo Paradise. I originally wanted to wait until I cleared all the classic games, but PCB is just taking forever to clear, and the CD's are just the perfect length for my boring weekday commutes so I figured why not? I already looked at the story, though I've also started hunting down some analyses since I didn't really understand much of it.

I've also listened through it all at least once. It's... not as great as I was expecting. Maybe I just need to get used to it, but I was expecting a bit more. Especially since it's got tracks from PoDD, EoSD and Seihou Kioh Gyoku (these are all soundtracks I am very fond of)

It isn't as bad as Dolls in Pseudo Paradise.

I didn't think this was gonna happen but I... actually got creeped out a little by the story. Mostly towards the end. It actually started off okay, I even misread "pierrot" as "parrot" which made things seem weirder rather than scary for me.

(Actually, I'm still weirded out since wtf is an Italian clown doing in Gensokyo)

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I just wanna mention IN's Extra Stage theme is really good and I wouldn't mind being stuck on that

 

[shockdude]

I also wanted to mention that I started listening to the Music CD's, beginning with Dolls in Pseudo Paradise. I originally wanted to wait until I cleared all the classic games, but PCB is just taking forever to clear, and the CD's are just the perfect length for my boring weekday commutes so I figured why not? I already looked at the story, though I've also started hunting down some analyses since I didn't really understand much of it.

I've also listened through it all at least once. It's... not as great as I was expecting. Maybe I just need to get used to it, but I was expecting a bit more. Especially since it's got tracks from PoDD, EoSD and Seihou Kioh Gyoku (these are all soundtracks I am very fond of)

I didn't think this was gonna happen but I... actually got creeped out a little by the story. Mostly towards the end. It actually started off okay, I even misread "pierrot" as "parrot" which made things seem weirder rather than scary for me.

(Actually, I'm still weirded out since wtf is an Italian clown doing in Gensokyo)

DiPP is a weird album imo and doesn't really fit with the later CDs, thanks to the EoSD-era instruments and the laid-back feel of the tracks. And the creepy story of course.
Still, I enjoyed listening to Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17, Strange Everyday Life of the Flying Shrine Maiden, and good old Eternal Shrine Maiden.

Also I only recently learned about Demetori's new CD for Comiket 92. Can't believe I hadn't noticed it earlier.
Quality arranges from LoLK and the early Windows games. It's actually hard to pick a favorite track, but I'm a sucker for Pure Furies and Vengeance is Mine is easily the best Pure Furies arrange I've heard.

 

[Evilisk]

EDIT: I redid the story part of my post since I felt it was a bit all over the place.

ZUN's Music Collection Vol. 1: Hourai Ningyou ~ Dolls in Pseudo Paradise

(Alternate fan art. Despite being early Windows era, there's not much fanart. Most consistent artist would be Nekolina's comics featuring the two ladies from DiPP. Click for their Pixiv)

The Tracklist
(Categorized by music's origin)
Original Tracks
01. Legend of Hourai
04. Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17 (Original, 6 version is an arrange)
08. Forest of Dolls
13. The Strange Everyday Life of the Flying Shrine Maiden

Seihou 1
02. Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly ~ Red and White
07. Circus Reverie

Seihou 2
03. Lovely Mound of Cherry Blossoms ~ Japanese Flower
06. Enigmatic Doll

Touhou 1 Highly Responsive to Prayers
05. Eastern Strange Discourse
12. Eternal Shrine Maiden

Torte Le Magic
09. Witch of Love Potion

Touhou 3 Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream
10. Reincarnation

Touhou 6 Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
11. U.N. Owen was Her?

Impressions
Music
I thought this was an okay soundtrack. I expected to like it more since I really love Seihou Kioh Gyoku and Embodiment of Scarlet Devil's soundtracks, and this seems to be from right around that period. My expectations were also high since it was seemingly taking tracks from HRtP, PoDD, EoSD and Seihou Kioh Gyoku, and those would be the exact soundtracks I would take from if I were in ZUN's position, since I LOVE the music from those games.

While there were some solid remixes (like Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly, Eastern Strange Discourse and Eternal Shrine Maiden) and Lovely Mound of Cherry Blossoms is an inspired choice, the soundtrack as a whole didn't really work for me (on its own; it was more interesting to listen to with the murder mystery in mind). I think it's the combo of weird picks (UN Owen was Her, Enigmatic Doll, Witch of Love Potion) and somewhat hit or miss original tracks combined with some lackluster remixes (I really don't like this mix of Reincarnation in particular).

Of the tracks I do like, I found Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly to be a really good track. It's a perfect track for representing Reimu (when she's in incident solving mode that is ) and I feel like Eastern Strange Discourse and Eternal Shrine Maiden are solid modernizations of the original tracks. As for Lovely Mound of Cherry Blossoms, I already loved the track and it seems to be pretty much intact.

Story
I mentioned it before, but the most interesting part of Dolls in Pseudo Paradise is its horror/murder mystery story. For the Honest Men mystery itself, I've read a lot of interesting opinions, theories and solutions (most of these I've linked to). Personally I'm okay with either a face-value reading of the mystery (a pierrot-youkai killing and eating the Honest Men) or the more common solution (one of the Honest Men became a youkai and killed the others). I think both readings still have a place in Touhou as we currently know it, partly because they don't seem to be contradicted by recent lore, mostly because they go into unexplored elements of Touhou's setting (either, the phenomena of outsiders failing to reach the Human Village and getting eaten by youkai or the youkai-ification process, since we know that human-turned-youkai exist in Gensokyo). I did have my own observations but to be honest, I don't really think there needs to or is any deeper reading than that. I also feel it's a bit too vague and silly at parts and I'm not really a fan of mysteries to begin with so meh

The only other thing I want to mention is the Alice theory. I initially was under the impression that the youkai was basically 100% Alice but after doing some extra readings, I think that's probably not the case. For me, it's really down to how ZUN's used Alice in the games; a lot of her early usage in the series is coming off to me as a case of convenience. ZUN needed a misleading character to obscure the main villains of PCB (link), so Alice was brought back (despite ZUN originally intending a break in canon from the PC98 games). And since we know that PCB and IN were planned in conjunction with one another, and both Reimu and Marisa needed partners that weren't introduced out of nowhere (since I recall the original plan was to go EoSD to IN), Alice worked for that role (as Marisa's partner) too. With both of these in mind, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch that Alice probably inherited all of the symbolism from the character Dolls in Pseudo Paradise just for convenience's sake too (as in, it'd be easier to reuse/callback to those themes rather than come up with something from scratch again)... or maybe ZUN originally had a character in mind (Rin Satsuki anyone?) and didn't want all that work to go to waste. The point is really that while the connections are probably real and intentional, I don't think ZUN's intended for them to be used as proof of Alice being the killer in DiPP. I think at this point, ZUN probably considers them a bonus or leftover thing from when Touhou lore wasn't so well defined.

I don't think there's that much more to say. Like I said, I wanted to do an observations list but meh, I don't think the wheel needs to be reinvented here. I'm fairly satisfied with the most obvious solution because it's a means of exploring the darker side of Gensokyo that's hinted at, but never really explored in other official works. Overall, listening and reading DiPP was a pretty decent time killer. The mystery definitely helped to enhance what would have been a subpar listening experience, though the novelty of it is starting to wear thin on me. It would be interesting to see ZUN do something like this again, now that Touhou lore has been more heavily defined than when it was during DiPP's time, though I'm also perfectly fine with ZUN's presented the universe of Touhou so far too.

Extra Links
Touhou Wiki Translation
DiPP post on MoTK (has a bunch of stuff, like release history, corrections + other theories)
Kafka-Fuura Translation (referred to in one of the following analyses)
Drac32Drac's Analysis
Reddit DiPP Killer Theory
Swordianmaster's Analysis

 

[shockdude]

touhou news woo.

New demo for Touhou 15.5 coming out this Autumn Reitaisai. It apparently includes the entire cast of ULiL. Single-player content aside, that's basically a full fighting game!
Source: N-Forza from Shrinemaiden.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

can't wait to play some 2v2 touhou action, hopefully the demo feels good to play.

 

[Haganeren]

touhou news woo.

New demo for Touhou 15.5 coming out this Autumn Reitaisai. It apparently includes the entire cast of ULiL. Single-player content aside, that's basically a full fighting game!
Source: N-Forza from Shrinemaiden.

What do you mean "single-player content ASIDE" ?
Single player is part of a "full fighting game" too, especially in Touhou since a lot of Spell Cards are especially created for the single player mode. (And i love it)

.... Or did you mean that there is no single player content ?

 

[Evilisk]

From reading that MotK thread, it also seems as if final roster will actually have 19 characters, not 20 (leaving room for 4 new characters)

 

[Crayolan]

What do you mean "single-player content ASIDE" ?
Single player is part of a "full fighting game" too, especially in Touhou since a lot of Spell Cards are especially created for the single player mode. (And i love it)

.... Or did you mean that there is no single player content ?

I think they're just trying to say that's a pretty large roster for a demo.

 

[shockdude]

What do you mean "single-player content ASIDE" ?
Single player is part of a "full fighting game" too, especially in Touhou since a lot of Spell Cards are especially created for the single player mode. (And i love it)

.... Or did you mean that there is no single player content ?

I think they're just trying to say that's a pretty large roster for a demo.

What Crayolan said. 15 characters is a full fighting game's worth of characters. Heck the demo will probably have netplay, like the previous demo.
The only thing keeping the new demo from being an actual "full" fighting game is lack of single-player content. Even then, if it weren't an official game you could probably pass the demo as a finished fangame.

...it's gonna be one of those paid demos, isn't it?

 

[Haganeren]

What Crayolan said. 15 characters is a full fighting game's worth of characters. Heck the demo will probably have netplay, like the previous demo.
The only thing keeping the new demo from being an actual "full" fighting game is lack of single-player content. Even then, if it weren't an official game you could probably pass the demo as a finished fangame.

...it's gonna be one of those paid demos, isn't it?

Oh i see, i didn't grasp that it was a demo. This explains that

 

[Evilisk]

Gonna start posting my impressions of my re-read of Forbidden Scrollery. I've actually read FS before (up to the infamous Fortune Teller part) but I don't remember what I'm up to, or most of the story (because I was binge-reading) so I figured it would be worth starting from the beginning again.

Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery Ch 1
This is a pretty basic chapter. Nothing really happens in-universe but it does set up the tone of the manga and it also establishes the (admittedly cute) dynamic between Reimu and Kosuzu. I've heard the dynamic between Reimu and Kosuzu plays into the ending of FS, so I'll be paying close attention to that in future chapters.

I didn't notice this on my first reading, but the manga is really setting up Kosuzu as a weirdo. Beyond Reimu's comment on her, there are just so many dark, ominous panels with Kosuzu in this chapter that I can't believe I never noticed the first time. (I was gonna post panels at this point, but I'm not exactly sure if that's allowed so...)

Also, apparently the Necronomicon is in Gensokyo. I'm not really familiar with Lovecraft at all, but I'm surprised that this is a thing (and in Japanese, no less).

There's not much else to say, since it's the first chapter. Oh, I do think the art is just absolutely gorgeous. I heard the artist, Harukawa Moe's moved on from Touhou, and I think that's a real shame because the art here (and also the work she did for 14.5) was super great.

 

[Evilisk]

Touhou Suzunan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
Youkai Extermination December (Ch 2 - 3)

The first proper story of Forbidden Scrollery. The structure and plot itself is rather basic, save for the little twist at the end. It's not surprising as it is only the start of the series, and the other major character (Mamizou) hasn't been introduced yet, but there's not much to talk about (other than the character interactions). Here were my thoughts (and also other comments)

-Admittedly, I’m not all that familiar with Akyuu beyond her reincarnation/memory shtick. It's interesting she went to Kosuzu for help (and apparently for the first time too, judging from Kosuzu's reaction to her house). It is mentioned that Reimu doesn't really keep Akyuu informed, and the issue with the scroll, at first glance, doesn't seem like something worth bothering Reimu over, so I understand why it happened.

-I like the little twist at the end. It gives Kosuzu’s nervous expressions throughout the chapters a different meaning (and I'm a sucker for that kind of thing). Speaking of Kosuzu, it's interesting that while she trusts Reimu in Chapter 1 to deal with whatever occurs because of the youma books, she doesn't end up explaining the full situation to her (or Marisa).

-I wasn’t expecting to like Reimu and Marisa’s interactions so much (there are so many lovely expressions from both of them here). In this, and in later chapters, there’s a good sense of friendship but also rivalry between the two of them.

-This chapter is really heavy on the fanservice. A lot of Gensokyo is shown off, from the Youkai Mountain, to the SDM to even Shinreibyou. I do wonder how they found the latter, because hiding places are supposed to be a hermit specialty (I even remember there’s a whole chapter about Marisa trying to break into Kasen’s house in WaHH). Eh, I’m probably overthinking things, that bit is only part of a montage anyway. But yeah, there are a lot of characters here. Even Kisume and Komachi get in on the cameo fun. There are certainly more cameos than I remember from reading this part for the first time.

-Interestingly, I knew of en'enra's before FS because of... Mortal Kombat weirdly enough.

That's all for now. Oh, also I just found out that apparently Forbidden Scrollery is getting released in English in November this year. I want to get it though I'm not entirely sure if it's available from where I live (Australia). I'm also a bit curious how the translation is being handled.

 

[demidar]

Wait what? Is this the first time canonical material will be officially translated?

 

[Evilisk]

Wait what? Is this the first time canonical material will be officially translated?

It's definitely real, there's a page on Yen Press for it (though only Vol.1 is releasing November, the other two volumes aren't til next year). It's also been mentioned on Reddit and there's an MotK thread on the topic.

I'm not sure if it's the first official work to be translated. I do wonder how the translation will turn out. I think even if it turns out to be bad/unpopular, I'd still love to have a copy just for the beautiful art though.

 

[Narroo]

People have been finding Golem difficult? I always thought that one was fun and easy, at least on normal.

 

[shockdude]

Wait what? Is this the first time canonical material will be officially translated?

It's definitely real, there's a page on Yen Press for it (though only Vol.1 is releasing November, the other two volumes aren't til next year). It's also been mentioned on Reddit and there's an MotK thread on the topic.

I'm not sure if it's the first official work to be translated. I do wonder how the translation will turn out. I think even if it turns out to be bad/unpopular, I'd still love to have a copy just for the beautiful art though.

Yeah it was announced a couple months ago.
You can preorder FS Volume 1 and Volume 2 on Amazon right now. Volume 1 releases on November 14 and Volume 2 releases on February 20.

 

[Evilisk]

Touhou Suzunan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
"Privately Published Night Parade Scroll" (Ch 4 - 5) & "A Youkai Fairy Tale" (Ch 5.5/Omake)

I don't really have much to say. I had a lot more typed out but these two chapters don't have a lot going on. Mamizou is introduced as the youkai perspective for the story (which is interesting since she's technically a newcomer to Gensokyo) and her interactions between the other characters are the main focus here and that's really it. Kosuzu also gets development in this chapter, despite appearing the least of the four characters featured in this story. She goes from being completely oblivious to the scroll creating tsukumogami, to being horrified at the revelation, to being impressed and inspired by Mamizou's example. Reimu also gives Kosuzu some leeway, deciding to let her keep (but not use) the scroll.

The omake mostly just repeats these points, though it illustrates things more clearly by having Reimu,and Mamizou in the same room and actually interacting with one another (as Kosuzu watches). There's not much else to say. I guess Reimu actually exterminating those youkai in the omake was a good laugh (I think it's even implied that Mamizou giving Kosuzu the youma book is a direct result of Reimu going after tanuki, unless I read it incorrectly). I did have a few side notes but it's mostly just observations.

-This is more from a fan perspective, but it's mentioned that tsukumogami and tanuki have good compatibility in chapter 5 and now I kinda want to see Mamizou and Raiko working together in AoCF or some other fan work.

-I don't like Marisa's silly outfit in this chapter tbh. The outfit from the previous chapter (which reminds me of her SA outfit) looks a lot nicer.

-Keine had a short cameo in chapter 4, and on that note, I’m actually surprised that Keine isn’t really involved in this series. As a half-youkai who is more involved with the Human Village compared to, say, Rinnosuke, she seems like she’d be relevant for a story from a human perspective.

 

[Evilisk]

Touhou Suzunan ~ Forbidden Scrollery
“The Requirements for Raising a Rare Beast” (Ch 6 – 7)

(Oh, ZUN)

This was a fun chapter to read through. It’s hard to explain, but this chapter has a very different feel from the other stories so far. It feels like more of a slice of life because the mystery feels rather de-emphasized (even though the bait and switch with the tupai is actually decently executed) and the incident doesn’t end with our usual youkai of the week being sealed or dealt with (instead, it’s just returned to the SDM). The theme of alcohol (which the story also ends on) and the specific focus on the chupacabra drinking sake (while ignoring the fact that’s it getting blood from somewhere) really don’t help lol

Despite the light tone of the story, it is interesting that the problem/youkai of the week is actually beyond both Akyuu and Reimu’s abilities (Akyuu helps to catch the chupacabra, but can’t provide any specific info, and her work catching it is heavily undermined by Reimu unsealing and failing to exterminate the youkai afterwards). It actually ends with Mamizou (a youkai) and Sakuya (technically a human, but not human-aligned at all) doing Akyuu and Reimu’s jobs respectively.

Rather than trying to say that Akyuu and Reimu are incompetent though, I do think it’s an interesting way of showing that just as youkai are often the cause of incidents, they also sometimes help to resolve them (though youkai are 100% the cause of this specific incident). In all, I think this was the first really fun and interesting chapter of FS. As always, some other random observations:

• It’s rather obvious why (this is not WaHH), but I am surprised that Kasen doesn’t make at least a cameo in the story since animal youkai are kind of her thing. I also wonder on the timeline of this incident in regards to WaHH.

• Actually, after thinking about it, this chapter really feels like a more WaHH style chapter. The chapter even ends with Reimu being incompetent and failing to catch the chupacabra (just as Reimu’s schemes often fail in WaHH), whereas the portrayal of Reimu in FS is normally super competent.

• I don’t know if it was just me, but Sakuya actually comes off as kind of a weirdo in this chapter, even more than Kosuzu (who is supposed to be the actual weirdo in-universe). It might be because of reading too many fanworks, but she’s way less stoic than I expected. Like, Sakuya is so nonchalant towards everything that it’s actually a bit unsettling.

• It seems Marisa doesn’t recognize human Mamizou at all. That’s pretty interesting. I wonder if Marisa would explain to Kosuzu that Mamizou is a tanuki if she knew (and if that’s the reason ZUN’s written things this way).

• I didn’t know the SDM imported goods from the Outside World. That’s cool and I don’t think I’ve seen many fanworks tap into this (though that’s not exactly surprising).

• Apparently Reimu can get so drunk that she forgets things… exactly how old is Reimu again?

 

[demidar]

Reimu and Marisa are like... 12 to 14. Or something. No underaged drinking laws in Gensokyo though so it's fine.

I wonder if they'll ever grow up.

 

[shockdude]

Mamizou being completely unrecognizable by the cast is good classic cartoon silliness.

Touhou takes place in real-time since Imperishable Night. See: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Apparently EoSD takes place in 2003 (despite releasing in 2002), and a reasonable headcanon is that Reimu was 10-13 at the time, meaning in 2017 she's now 24-27.

 

[Zweizer]

Touhou takes place in real-time since Imperishable Night. See: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Apparently EoSD takes place in 2003 (despite releasing in 2002), and a reasonable headcanon is that Reimu was 10-13 at the time, meaning in 2017 she's now 24-27.

Wait what? First I ever heard of this. Wow.

 

[ibyea]

Mamizou being completely unrecognizable by the cast is good classic cartoon silliness.

Touhou takes place in real-time since Imperishable Night. See: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Apparently EoSD takes place in 2003 (despite releasing in 2002), and a reasonable headcanon is that Reimu was 10-13 at the time, meaning in 2017 she's now 24-27.

Huh,I always just assumed the whole thing was in a permanent state of timelessness, like The Simpsons and Pokemon anime.

 

[Evilisk]

Mamizou being completely unrecognizable by the cast is good classic cartoon silliness.

Touhou takes place in real-time since Imperishable Night. See: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Apparently EoSD takes place in 2003 (despite releasing in 2002), and a reasonable headcanon is that Reimu was 10-13 at the time, meaning in 2017 she's now 24-27.

On the bolded, I guess that'd make sense if the context was for a gag, but Marisa not recognizing Mamizou at all isn't played for humour. It's also worth noting that in her very first appearance, she uses the same disguise and Reimu doesn't recognize her at all until Mamizou formally introduces herself. There is a later example of the Kappa recognizing Mamizou when she sneaks into their hideout, but Nitori is pretty sure she went with an intentionally awful disguise in that case.


On the Touhou timeline, I've read that timeline page before lol. I can't believe it actually lines up with Forbidden Scrollery though. I didn't mention this in my post, but every new story/pair of chapters in FS usually explicitly shows which season the story takes place in.

As an example, Youkai Extermination December occurs right at the end of Autumn (the Aki sisters are shown dancing at the beginning, and Minoriko then starts to sneeze). Privately Published Night Parade Scroll occurs in Winter (Letty makes a cameo right at the start). And the last part I posted about begins with a Lily White cameo.

Still, I thought was just some visual flourish and I was also under the assumption things worked under cartoon time a la Simpsons or Sazae-san. The fact that they're not ageing physically even though time is actually, definitely passing, is really weird. I'd headcanon it as things physically ageing slower in Gensokyo but then I'm not sure how Sumireko would factor into things.