Lys Skygge
Member
Music and film industry are pretty terrible as well. It just sucks that the entertainment industry in general is so shitty (despite loving working in the film industry myself).
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An important statement from Naughty Dog
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Brotherhood93
Member
Here's the thing I'm having trouble with. Ballard claims Sony HR got involved after he had a "mental breakdown" (unclear what this entailed) so there must be a report on that? Are Naughty Dog saying this didn't happen too or are they just saying it was never mentioned in the report that Ballard said it was as a result of harassment.
It seems plausible to me that Sony decided to fire Ballard after this mental breakdown (maybe why he also can't find new employment) and the HR department omitted that it was a result of sexual harassment, leaving everybody else none the wiser. However, if this is the case, you would think this would warrant further investigation which is hopefully happening right now.
Probably because records are archived digitally. It's not that difficult to search up the archives and see if there is any complaint made by a person. And yes, anytime you contact HR they open a case, that's how they keep track of everything because they have other cases to investigate too.
Almost assuredly.
Sad Affleck
Member
It was an allegation two years ago involving two employees no longer with the company with apparently zero evidence of any formal complaints made to HR or anywhere else.
While I agree that more tact could have been used and the statement could have been handled much, well, better, there's not much further to go based on the little evidence we have.
And that's a problem. It should be surprising. People should not have to wait until a national news story of a head of a company sexually abusing clients for decades comes out to challenge the ones that abused them.
I understand why Naughty Dog put out the statement they did but it doesn't look good and until there's an investigation or someone like Jason over at Kotaku is able to dig something up, everyone should be taking everything in and not dismissing any one person's accusation.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
With as big as they are, probably. Powerful people get away with a lot of vile shit tbh.
I dont understand the logic here. Like how does this whole thing make him more employable really?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Exactly. It's why I find this whole boycotting argument so weak and tired. Why is the solution to this to boycott when this literally happens in every industry and remains unchecked? Today it's the company you love or hate or the company who did you wrong so yeah, let's rally behind putting an end to them but it's not about the fact that it happens in every single industry and wanting more people to speak out in general.
No one is going to boycott everything so it's time to get real about actually doing more to support those who speak out by actively seeking ways to address a society that continues to allow this to happen. Whether that be in politics, personal life with family and friends, work, etc etc. But that's where this stop gap happens...
GHG
Member
So which is it? The evidence was destroyed or no evidence was ever created in the first place?
Because based on your previous replies you seemed to be suggesting the former, but now you're angling towards the latter?
What's changed?
Likely at most major companies. Including MS and Nintendo.
Many of you in this thread are being absolutely ridiculous and unreasonable.
Here are the only pieces of information we have:
1) David Ballard makes allegation of sexual harassment on his public twitter account
2) ND releases statement that there is no evidence they could find regarding any harassment complaint being made.
Seems a perfect situation for a wait and see approach, to see if more evidence is uncovered.
Instead, this thread is filled with:
-Assumption of guilt for Sony and ND
-Claims of a huge conspiracy and coverup, including documents being destroyed by HR
- Talk about boycotting ND and Sony
- Outrage over ND using Davids name in their statement despite him making the allegation on his public twitter account. Nearly all of us knew who was making the allegation before ND ever released a statement, but suddenly heres an outrage they used his name?
And of course the completely unfair and unreasonable assumption that since the Weinstein issue is prevalent right now, suddenly every accusation made right now is assumed true.
Im not saying it didnt happen. Im not saying it did. Im saying no one here has ANY clue what did or didnt happen, and should probably not be commenting with such strong opinions
Here are the only pieces of information we have:
1) David Ballard makes allegation of sexual harassment on his public twitter account
2) ND releases statement that there is no evidence they could find regarding any harassment complaint being made.
Seems a perfect situation for a wait and see approach, to see if more evidence is uncovered.
Instead, this thread is filled with:
-Assumption of guilt for Sony and ND
-Claims of a huge conspiracy and coverup, including documents being destroyed by HR
- Talk about boycotting ND and Sony
- Outrage over ND using Davids name in their statement despite him making the allegation on his public twitter account. Nearly all of us knew who was making the allegation before ND ever released a statement, but suddenly heres an outrage they used his name?
And of course the completely unfair and unreasonable assumption that since the Weinstein issue is prevalent right now, suddenly every accusation made right now is assumed true.
Im not saying it didnt happen. Im not saying it did. Im saying no one here has ANY clue what did or didnt happen, and should probably not be commenting with such strong opinions
Sad Affleck
Member
How do you know the person being accused is no longer employed at Naughty Dog?
Thats not how HR departments work, he would have to file a seperate case specifically around th sexual harassment.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
'Not recording a HR issue' and 'shredding the paper trail and destroying any evidence of the crime'.
Exactly the same things.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Not specifically tied to this case, but I'm going to reiterate something I said.
People need to stop using terms like "industry" or "Hollywood" or whatever. This isn't specific to an industry and tying to a specific industry ignores the bigger picture - it's an issue with society and anywhere there is power dynamics.
From the POTUS to the head of a film studio to a lead at a game studio to the manager of a cafe.
If there's power dynamics, there's people to be abused.
People need to stop using terms like "industry" or "Hollywood" or whatever. This isn't specific to an industry and tying to a specific industry ignores the bigger picture - it's an issue with society and anywhere there is power dynamics.
From the POTUS to the head of a film studio to a lead at a game studio to the manager of a cafe.
If there's power dynamics, there's people to be abused.
Both would be a cover up.
Spot on.
Half the people saying how they would have handled things better in this thread go on to immediately say that they would act in a way that compromises any investigation.
Genuinely, there are so many people in here making comments that have no idea what they're talking about, but are just baying for blood regardless. That doesn't help anyone, including the victim.
Brotherhood93
Member
Firstly, it's a good PR move to hire a victim of sexual harassment. A cynical way of thinking but I think we all know that to be true. It would also mean he has a better response for why he left Naughty Dog and had a "mental breakdown" than just being burnt out due to crunch, something that probably puts a lot of devs off.
I'm not saying he made it up but if he did then as a way to find employment and boost his profile does seem like the most logical reason.
Yes, and not only game companies.
I think I'm confusing another story with someone working at another company, actually. I thought they mentioned he was no longer at Naughty Dog.
Crimson_Gold
Member
The horror stories I've heard about my local GameStop and some of the fast food places
Omnistalgic
Member
Gotta love capitalism...
Sad Affleck
Member
Bits N Pieces
Member
Are you saying that evidence has never been destroyed or altered in the wake of serious accusations against an organisation or business? Its only in recent years that a small proportion of big cover ups have been uncovered.
By the way, I'm not saying this is what's happened here, merely that it has happened in the past and is still going on.
Agreed.
This feels like a reach. Like this could also go very badly for Ballard depending on how it plays out, why take that risk?
GHG
Member
Don't worry about PeopleSoft records bro, just shred the paper. That'll do the trick, they'll never know!
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
You don't say. Well done on not following the conversation, i guess.
Stealthcobra
Member
He can't possibly have any evidence, wouldn't he have used it years ago?
You speak the truth. I think it would benefit everyone if we just slow down, and wait for any more information. We just don't know enough yet.
Brotherhood93
Member
17 months without a job, struggling to pay bills, what is there to lose?
Like I said, I'm not saying he made it up but he wouldn't be the first to do such a thing. I think the likelihood is that he's telling the truth but Naughty Dog deny any knowledge of it happening, something that could also go very badly, so at this moment we don't know the situation. All we can do is speculate, which is pretty sad but there you go.
legacyzero
Banned
Isnt ND run by some pretty liberal people though? Like Druckman? Obviously there are rules and guidelines there where its not tolerated. I find it really interesting that people are automatically ready to dogpile while forgetting innocent until proven guilty, and completely ruling out even a slight chance of malicious intent.
Do we really believe that ND would just try to bury this?
Do we really believe that ND would just try to bury this?
17 months of job seeking, and not being hired. then just putting your previously employer on blast (who fired you) when you have a history of mental breakdowns is not reaching.
Not saying thats what happened here, but its not far fetched with what little facts we have.
Please read the thread. Please...
ByWatterson
Member
Nope. Literally not what they said. They said we have no evidence of receipt of a complaint. That's the beginning and end of what they said. And his story merely says "HR got involved."
Both of these things can be true - it seems highly likely he never made a formal complaint.
TheModestGun
Neo Member
The thing that's strange to me right now is the amount of people speaking of Naughty Dog as if they are some monolithic single being and not a corporation with many independently thinking minds that may have different goals, behaviors, and attitudes involving these issues.
It's very likely in the case that this is true that there were a few independent actors that either neglected to file a report or did not act accordingly to their jobs ethical standards or is straight up incompetent as an HR worker. HR departments document this stuff to a T when they are informed of it if they are worth a damn. They must do so to shield themselves from any potential legal action of employees past and present. It is very unlikely that this is some grand conspiracy.
Hanlon's razor often rings true "never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity, neglect and misunderstanding" paraphrasing here.
I think it's important that these distinctions are made.
This DOES NOT make what potentially happened to this man ok, but I think it's important that this doesn't spiral into conspiracy shark jumping territory.
It's very likely in the case that this is true that there were a few independent actors that either neglected to file a report or did not act accordingly to their jobs ethical standards or is straight up incompetent as an HR worker. HR departments document this stuff to a T when they are informed of it if they are worth a damn. They must do so to shield themselves from any potential legal action of employees past and present. It is very unlikely that this is some grand conspiracy.
Hanlon's razor often rings true "never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity, neglect and misunderstanding" paraphrasing here.
I think it's important that these distinctions are made.
This DOES NOT make what potentially happened to this man ok, but I think it's important that this doesn't spiral into conspiracy shark jumping territory.
Never working again, blacklisting, loss of reputation, humiliation, public retaliation, possible legal ramifications? Theres plenty to lose and these things could happen even if the accusation is true too, this isnt exactly a win/win situation for him.
trineo_feo
Member
Thank you for this. It's crazy that people nowadays feel empowered to be prosecutor, judge and executioner all in one, and they only need a few tweets.
If this is true, then it's very serious and both ND and Sony should face the consequences. But we cannot become a society in which people start looking for someone to blame and going into action the minute we have the tiniest piece of information.
llien
Member
Good point.
That is all true, but if you suffer from mental breakdowns, in his mind he probably already feel like the worst has happen
ElephantShell
Banned
Maybe ND wouldn't but Sony would, and if it's Sony HR he reach out to then it's in their hands.
michaelius
Banned
Some people want vengence on company which fired them. They usually report all dirt they have on their workplace to proper authorities but that's in Europe not sure how well that would work in american written for corporations law.
Bingo...
SuperBowser
Member
Given the nature of the allegations, it's hardly surprising there is no evidence recorded. He was apparently fired 24 hours after making his complaint and offered money to stay silent.
Impossible for an outside to say what did or didn't happen, but I wouldn't be reassured by Naugty Dog's statement in any way.
Impossible for an outside to say what did or didn't happen, but I wouldn't be reassured by Naugty Dog's statement in any way.
DESTROYA
Member
Thank you for being a voice of reason.