Support NeoGAF

[DirtyCase]

They're just people who are manufactured instead of being born. I liked it better when I thought they were robots if I'm being honest.

See, I'm the opposite. I actually prefer the idea that they are pretty much human biologically speaking except for that fact they are grown in a vat and everything that entails. Kind of reminds me of gholas from the dune books.

They did show this in the original Blade Runner, when we see the eye designer Hannibal Chew working on an organic looking human eye before he is murdered by Roy Batty,

 

[Simo]

The art book finally arrived and the title is apt as the book covers every aspect and scene from the film from early concept art from 2015 to BTS stills and finished photography.

There's a lot to unpack and read but just flipping through a couple of things that really surprised me was..
- Just how many miniatures there were created and used. I knew they had created some for the San Diego wasteland and LAPD but they did a whole lot more for the city including the city blocks, Wallace Towers etc. Pretty much a lot of it was on par with how much was created for the first film.
- The baseline test scene was written by Ryan Gosling. The original scripted version was much shorter but Gosling asked if he take a crack to better understand and get into character. So he rewrote it and a 8 minute version was filmed which ended up in the final film.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I say it again. I *can't wait* for the Director's Commentary audio track on the BD release.

 

[Foxix Von]

From the first film it appears that they are genetically engineered chimeras rather than direct clones. Remember Dr Chew and his vessel full of eyes? Fitting different organs together like Lego bricks may work, even we can do that for transplant surgery, but perhaps reproduction would require a more sophisticated understanding of how the immune system and the reproductive system interact.

Right, this was my interpretation as well. I thought that was one of the implications of Deckard's remark on Rachel's eye color. It served a lot of different purposes but it also served as a call back to the first movie to indicate that they are assembled and Wallace doesn't have all the puzzle pieces yet.

 

[tonysidaway]

So is K a nexus 9

Just like Dobbie.

 

[Kieli]

Bullshit. He doesn’t hit you over the head with any of the themes in BR2049. A lot of people who don’t live online didn’t even know some of them were there.

Some of the expository flashbacks and repeated scenes (e.g. every scene where we stare at Officer K staring at some piece of evidence) felt like they didn't have enough faith in our intelligence to piece things out.

It's perfectly fine to leave some ambiguity and confusion in the audience upon first viewing. I don't see why they had to spell certain things out so clearly.

 

[NateDog]

Some of the expository flashbacks and repeated scenes (e.g. every scene where we stare at Officer K staring at some piece of evidence) felt like they didn't have enough faith in our intelligence to piece things out.

Yeah this is one of the issues I had with parts of the movie. In an ideal cut (which would take about at least 10 minutes minimum off of the movie) I think most of those would be taken out IMO.

This is actually an article from just before / just on the movie's release but this is a pretty cool interview with Deakins about filming 2049 and how sets were made and shot. http://variety.com/2017/artisans/awards/blade-runner-2049-roger-deakins-interview-1202579857/

 

[6.8]

Some of the expository flashbacks and repeated scenes (e.g. every scene where we stare at Officer K staring at some piece of evidence) felt like they didn't have enough faith in our intelligence to piece things out.

It's perfectly fine to leave some ambiguity and confusion in the audience upon first viewing. I don't see why they had to spell certain things out so clearly.

Agreed. It was likely dumbing it down for a wider audience, but it didn't show up, so it ended up being futile. :/

 

[Simo]

I love seeing this on the big screen, twice now, but I wish I had the home release already. There's so many details to pick up on and I've apparently missed a few even two screenings in.

Like, someone on my social feed asked if I had noticed that if you took the first letter of the carved animals in Deckard's home they spelled out Rachael. I mean...what?!

 

[Thug Waffle]

I... don't understand the point you're making.

Rachael was a Nexus 7 model, of which only one was made. There is no "experimenting heavily on that very model"... Because Tyrell immediately skipped it and went to Nexus 8, for whatever reason. After the blackout, or because Tyrell destroyed crucial records regarding the capability of procreation, that capability was lost.

Like, I don't really understand what your issue is here. He knows it was Rachael, because there was only one experimental model made. Which is why she was in Tyrell's offices in BR19.

yeah idk try reading or something perhaps

don't remember where it's stated that there was only one (maybe two) Nexus 7's in either movie but that's interesting. can you point to the evidence of this in either film?

either way, what does tyrell moving on to nexus 8 quickly have to do with preventing Wallace from experimenting on a model he might have known was built for reproductive purposes? if anything this would narrow it down quite a bit for wallace and he would have been working Rachels for some time now to try and decode what's left of her makeup. he would've known it could only be a Rachel.

For the movie, the only evidence you need is that Wallace says he knows. He acquired the whole Tyrell Corporation so the way I figured it was that there were records of the R&D and he connected the dots. It was also hinted in the movie that Deckard and Rachel falling in love was pre-planned by the Tyrell corporation – and Wallace had records of them meeting.

Wallace may not have actually known it was Rachel specifically that was able to conceive the child, but he figured it out when K visited the archives.

yeah i dont think he knew it was rachel yet. not sure how he wouldve known the instant K arrived because K never revealed what he was there for. wallace would have had to do his own evidence collection (ie: luv retrieving the bones) for confirmation.

bold: clearly that's not the case, as i'm here asking these questions right now. a movie being a movie doesn't give every unexplained article of said movie a pass.

 

[Curious Puppy]

Some of the expository flashbacks and repeated scenes (e.g. every scene where we stare at Officer K staring at some piece of evidence) felt like they didn't have enough faith in our intelligence to piece things out.

It's perfectly fine to leave some ambiguity and confusion in the audience upon first viewing. I don't see why they had to spell certain things out so clearly.

Making the character arc clear for everyone does not mean he made the themes clear for everyone.

 

[Farside]

The art book finally arrived and the title is apt as the book covers every aspect and scene from the film from early concept art from 2015 to BTS stills and finished photography.

There's a lot to unpack and read but just flipping through a couple of things that really surprised me was..
- Just how many miniatures there were created and used. I knew they had created some for the San Diego wasteland and LAPD but they did a whole lot more for the city including the city blocks, Wallace Towers etc. Pretty much a lot of it was on par with how much was created for the first film.
- The baseline test scene was written by Ryan Gosling. The original scripted version was much shorter but Gosling asked if he take a crack to better understand and get into character. So he rewrote it and a 8 minute version was filmed which ended up in the final film.

Dude.
And is this book a must-buy?

 

[NateDog]

Dude.
And is this book a must-buy?

Someone posted it a few pages back either here or in the other thread. https://i.redd.it/tucgsm4s8jrz.jpg

 

[JDHarbs]

Just got back from seeing it. This was as great of a sequel as we were ever going to get.

Can't wait for the Blu-ray. Will probably see it again before it leaves theaters too.

 

[Heckler456]

Just came back from a second viewing - Holy crap, did that go by fast. Felt even less like a 2h30m movie to me the second time around. A lot of the scene also resonated more emotionally for me this time, like the ending, and Deckard talking to K about Rachael. Great movie, gonna keep my third watch for when the bluray comes out. Don't want to risk it getting stale.

yeah idk try reading or something perhaps

don't remember where it's stated that there was only one (maybe two) Nexus 7's in either movie but that's interesting. can you point to the evidence of this in either film?

either way, what does tyrell moving on to nexus 8 quickly have to do with preventing Wallace from experimenting on a model he might have known was built for reproductive purposes? if anything this would narrow it down quite a bit for wallace and he would have been working Rachels for some time now to try and decode what's left of her makeup. he would've known it could only be a Rachel.

We know there was only one Nexus 7 (or Rachael prototype, whatever you want to call it) because Wallace didn't have any models to experiment with. And he hasn't cracked the reproduction problem yet. That's all there is to it.

What evidence in either movie do you have that there was more than one Rachael? We know for a fact that Tyrell (the person) introduced her as a prototype, so it isn't exactly a stretch that she'd be unique.

yeah i dont think he knew it was rachel yet. not sure how he wouldve known the instant K arrived because K never revealed what he was there for. wallace would have had to do his own evidence collection (ie: luv retrieving the bones) for confirmation.

bold: clearly that's not the case, as i'm here asking these questions right now. a movie being a movie doesn't give every unexplained article of said movie a pass.

At the very least, he probably knew that the remains of the model with procreation capabilities was found, given that he had an alert out for her serial number.

 

[JB1981]

I say it again. I *can't wait* for the Director's Commentary audio track on the BD release.

Does Denis usually do them?

 

[VistraNorrez]

Someone posted it a few pages back either here or in the other thread. https://i.redd.it/tucgsm4s8jrz.jpg

This is similar to how Rutger Hauer punched up Roy Batty's speech at the end of the original. Both actors took a great idea and made it an iconic one.

 

[Bandit1]

So after watching the original just a couple weeks ago, for some reason I went away thinking that replicants were more or less robots made to look and act very human like. But after watching 2049 today and reading through some of the replies in this thread, would I be correct in saying, (for lack of a better example) that replicants are more like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park? Living and breathing, but genetically engineered and not exactly the same as what they are based on?

 

[diaspora]

So after watching the original just a couple weeks ago, for some reason I went away thinking that replicants were more or less robots made to look and act very human like. But after watching 2049 today and reading through some of the replies in this thread, would I be correct in saying, (for lack of a better example) that replicants are more like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park? Living and breathing, but genetically engineered and not exactly the same as what they are based on?

They're vat-grow humans.

 

[Heckler456]

So after watching the original just a couple weeks ago, for some reason I went away thinking that replicants were more or less robots made to look and act very human like. But after watching 2049 today and reading through some of the replies in this thread, would I be correct in saying, (for lack of a better example) that replicants are more like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park? Living and breathing, but genetically engineered and not exactly the same as what they are based on?

Yeah, pretty much. Just vat-grown humans with custom abilities. But really, human all the same.

Spoiler

Or more.

 

[HariKari]

So after watching the original just a couple weeks ago, for some reason I went away thinking that replicants were more or less robots made to look and act very human like. But after watching 2049 today and reading through some of the replies in this thread, would I be correct in saying, (for lack of a better example) that replicants are more like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park? Living and breathing, but genetically engineered and not exactly the same as what they are based on?

The nuances of how they exactly work are never explained or defined, only hinted at. They're almost completely biological in nature. But we know they are different in other ways, like having their mental and physical ability programmed on some level.

 

[CheeseConey]

Just got back from seeing it a second time, this time in one of AMC's Dolby Theaters. My ears kinda hurt but it was even more amazing the second time.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Saw it a second time tonight.

Still think there's more of a connection between K, Deckard and Stelline than just the coincidence of the implanted memory.

Right before meeting Deckard, K plays the exact same note on the piano as Deckard plays in the original film before he dreams about the unicorn.

 

[shintoki]

Saw it a second time tonight.

Still think there's more of a connection between K, Deckard and Stelline than just the coincidence of the implanted memory.

Right before meeting Deckard, K plays the exact same note on the piano as Deckard plays in the original film before he dreams about the unicorn.

Remember the piano where he found the tin can in.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

So did I miss this or did the film say/imply who put the dream in K's head? It had to be put there on purpose right?

 

[Fallout-NL]

Remember the piano where he found the tin can in.

Ah fuck, that's it.

I really thought I had proof this time .

 

[UnemployedVillain]

See, I'm the opposite. I actually prefer the idea that they are pretty much human biologically speaking except for that fact they are grown in a vat and everything that entails. Kind of reminds me of gholas from the dune books.

They did show this in the original Blade Runner, when we see the eye designer Hannibal Chew working on an organic looking human eye before he is murdered by Roy Batty,

But simply being grown in a vat doesn't explain why some have enhanced strength and intelligence, they're unable to reproduce, and that they are largely immune to conditions that would kill normal humans. If they're simply genetically engineered humans, they must have undergone by significant modifications, ones that, for some reason, can't simply be done to normal humans. So I've never subscribed to that idea. They're some artificially grown things that largely resemble humans and require special equipment to distinguish from humans, but they aren't simply modified humans

 

[shintoki]

Ah fuck, that's it.

I really thought I had proof this time .

The movie is exceptionally well done in tying up every loose end I felt.

 

[Simo]

Dude.
And is this book a must-buy?

Absolutely. It's not just concept art but behind the scenes still, finished photography etc with input and notes from everyone involved.

 

[Human Resources]

man, i wrote up a nice multi-paragraph post for the box office thread, only to find that it was closed while i was typing! ah well

won't try to shift that conversation here, i'm sure you guys are sick of it

great film though! will try to do my part and see it again sometime this week

 

[Foxix Von]

man, i wrote up a nice multi-paragraph post for the box office thread, only to find that it was closed while i was typing! ah well

won't try to shift that conversation here, i'm sure you guys are sick of it

great film though! will try to do my part and see it again sometime this week

If you're referring to the strange eisegesis and critique of affirming sexism and cultural appropriation, I don't believe that conversation crossed over into this thread much, if at all.

Anyway, I've got crap hours. I have to wait until at least Wednesday or Thursday to see it again. Although I'm thoroughly excited to give it another viewing.

Part of my issue with the allusions to Deckard being a replicant in the first film is it leaves the whole end of Deckard's character arc and accomplishment in rediscovering his humanity to be postulated by the audience off screen. Even then his implied life span sort of robs him of his ability to capitalize on his humanity given how much of his life he's likely already wasted and the probability of his remaining time. I love how 2049 handles this by showing he's actually found some semblance of meaning to his existence. It reaffirms the integrity of his character arc while maintaining the ambiguity of his humanity or lack thereof simply by giving him an open ended lifespan. It also adds to the commentary on the notion of purpose and how it relates to what makes us human. In light of this it kind of retcons much of my problems with BR2019. That being said I just ordered the 4k release, which is a total pain to get ahold of for a reasonable price, and I'm really excited to give the whole series a rewatch.

 

[Bandit1]

They're vat-grow humans.

Yeah, pretty much. Just vat-grown humans with custom abilities. But really, human all the same.

Spoiler

Or more.

The nuances of how they exactly work are never explained or defined, only hinted at. They're almost completely biological in nature. But we know they are different in other ways, like having their mental and physical ability programmed on some level.

Gotcha, thanks!

That really had me puzzled within the first hour or so of 2049, as they were learning about Deckard and Rachel having a baby. So that clarification makes me enjoy both films even more.

 

[Freshmaker]

Wonder why she injected real memories into some of them.

Too bad the movie is not doing well. Now that we know that the knowledge replicants can breed overcomes the programming Wallace put in there to make the perfectly obedient shit is about to hit the fan on earth once that knowledge gets out.

Misdirection. K thought he was the one and immediately buried the case.

 

[Drifters]

Saw it a second time today, even better than the first. Not sure why it took me so long to understand the name JOI and why it was probably Wallace’s play on a fetish category. Anyways, it was more profound the second viewing the theme of love, the real and artificial between the characters. As others mentioned, Luvs tears knowing she could never give Wallace what he wanted to Joshi propositioning K when at his apartment.

Great movie.

 

[hendersonhank]

Saw it again tonight.

I'm even more confused as to why K had Stelline's memories. The first time I saw it, it didn't make sense to me, because the memory was obviously very personal and powerful for her, so it didn't make any sense that she would just stick it wholesale in some rando.

On second viewing it makes even less sense. He asks her if she ever gives anyone real memories, and she says no, that's illegal. She also says she does memory implants because replicants have such hard lives, she wants them to have good memories to look back on. So she went out of her way and broke the law to implant a deeply private, personal memory, that is also very unhappy or even traumatic in a random replicant? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

She also says that while there's a little of the artist in everything, she is so good at memories because she has such a great imagination -- again, in direct opposition to the wholesale implanting of an entire, real memory.

I also wondered how she could see K's memory just by looking through her little gizmo. Can't Wallace use this apparent mind reading device to get what he wants from Deckard?

Another loose end: That other cop who was with K, Madam, and Koko when they found out about the replicant baby. He knows what's up but we never see him again.

And finally, it is clear that Wallace Corp isn't just the de facto ruler able to do whatever they want, which was a popular explanation for why Luv can just waltz in and kill Madam. If that were the case, she wouldn't have needed to go there in the first place, she'd have just been able to use their system and track K herself without having to go there and get her hands dirty (nor would she have needed to lie and say Madam tried to kill her). Nor would Wallace need to take Deckard off-world to really work on him.

 

[HariKari]

I also wondered how she could see K's memory just by looking through her little gizmo. Can't Wallace use this apparent mind reading device to get what he wants from Deckard?

The scene is written ambiguously due to the replicant question with Deckard. It's stated that he 'wiped himself' of memories he has relating to Rachel and his daughter. If he's human, the memory reader device presumably wouldn't work (we see Luv use one for Rachel's memories). If he's a replicant, he found some way to scramble the memories to protect them.

And finally, it is clear that Wallace Corp isn't just the de facto ruler able to do whatever they want, which was a popular explanation for why Luv can just waltz in and kill Madam. If that were the case, she wouldn't have needed to go there in the first place, she'd have just been able to use their system and track K herself without having to go there and get her hands dirty (nor would she have needed to lie and say Madam tried to kill her). Nor would Wallace need to take Deckard off-world to really work on him.

There's basically no time elapsed in the movie after Luv kills Madam. It could be a huge problem, potentially. It could be Luv acting out in a really dangerous way that is impossible to cover up. We don't get to see the fallout, so saying she "gets away with it" is premature. It's also shown that she is tracking K earlier in the film via Joi, but Joi has K break the antenna so that function no longer works, which immediately sends Luv into action to get back on his trail.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Saw it again tonight.

I'm even more confused as to why K had Stelline's memories. The first time I saw it, it didn't make sense to me, because the memory was obviously very personal and powerful for her, so it didn't make any sense that she would just stick it wholesale in some rando.

On second viewing it makes even less sense. He asks her if she ever gives anyone real memories, and she says no, that's illegal. She also says she does memory implants because replicants have such hard lives, she wants them to have good memories to look back on. So she went out of her way and broke the law to implant a deeply private, personal memory, that is also very unhappy or even traumatic in a random replicant? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I think the memory was implanted to different replicants by either deckard or rachel so that it would be hard for the hunters to find Stelline and since they were outlaws, didn't care about legality. That's how I interpreted it.

 

[NateDog]

On my second viewing yesterday I had really only one other question. When Luv and the goons from Wallace enter the casino to take Deckard, those guys have masks on. I presumed to protect themselves from the radiation in some way, Luv and K not needing them makes sense, and I thought the guy that appears behind K (who seemingly came through the main entrance of the casino) doesn't have one, but I would have presumed regardless that whoever was with Luv were replicants. But why would some of the others need masks? And are there any implications suggested about the radiation's effects on Deckard? I thought the implication would be that if he is a replicant, the radiation may be a reason why he for some reason has survived. But I feel like I'm missing a beat here or am looking into nothing.

 

[diaspora]

On my second viewing yesterday I had really only one other question. When Luv and the goons from Wallace enter the casino to take Deckard, those guys have masks on. I presumed to protect themselves from the radiation in some way, Luv and K not needing them makes sense, and I thought the guy that appears behind K (who seemingly came through the main entrance of the casino) doesn't have one, but I would have presumed regardless that whoever was with Luv were replicants. But why would some of the others need masks? And are there any implications suggested about the radiation's effects on Deckard? I thought the implication would be that if he is a replicant, the radiation may be a reason why he for some reason has survived. But I feel like I'm missing a beat here or am looking into nothing.

Probably this. Maybe the radiation is damaging but we haven't seen its effects on Deckard. Maybe it's a non-factor and the masked guys were just being cautious.

 

[demosthenes]

On my second viewing yesterday I had really only one other question. When Luv and the goons from Wallace enter the casino to take Deckard, those guys have masks on. I presumed to protect themselves from the radiation in some way, Luv and K not needing them makes sense, and I thought the guy that appears behind K (who seemingly came through the main entrance of the casino) doesn't have one, but I would have presumed regardless that whoever was with Luv were replicants. But why would some of the others need masks? And are there any implications suggested about the radiation's effects on Deckard? I thought the implication would be that if he is a replicant, the radiation may be a reason why he for some reason has survived. But I feel like I'm missing a beat here or am looking into nothing.

Radiation levels were low, we don't know how long they've been low for.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Radiation levels were low, we don't know how long they've been low for.

But not low enough for the people coming to extract deckard who aren't even in Vegas very long to have to wear masks?

 

[louiedog]

The annoying dude in my row who laughed at a few moments which were not funny gasped audibly when Harrison Ford showed up. I guess he didn't see the poster.

 

[demosthenes]

But not low enough for the people coming to extract deckard who aren't even in Vegas very long to have to wear masks?

The city has been abandoned. All that's said is that a dirty bomb went off and the city became uninhabitable. This was decades ago? They're going to extract someone and not caring about testing for radiation levels. Sounds like everyone just stays clear of Vegas.

 

[PHOTOSHOP]

The annoying dude in my row who laughed at a few moments which were not funny gasped audibly when Harrison Ford showed up. I guess he didn't see the poster.

i know it wouldve bombed even more but it be crazy if the marketing didnt show Ford at all in promotion. Total surprise

 

[hendersonhank]

I think the memory was implanted to different replicants by either deckard or rachel so that it would be hard for the hunters to find Stelline and since they were outlaws, didn't care about legality. That's how I interpreted it.

Rachel died when Stelline was born, and Deckard never saw the child or knew who it was. And in any case how would they or anyone have gotten her childhood memories?

 

[Heckler456]

Stelline makes memories for Wallace corp. It's Wallace corp. that implants them. She just added one of her real memories to the pile, and I think it just so happens that K has it.

 

[mrkgoo]

i know it wouldve bombed even more but it be crazy if the marketing didnt show Ford at all in promotion. Total surprise

Yeah I would've loved that, but I understand why they need to put him in marketing.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Yeah I would've loved that, but I understand why they need to put him in marketing.

It would have been a hard secret to keep, considering everyone would be asking Ford about it.

But as it stands, I'm pretty surprised how they were able to keep most of the details of the plot under wraps until the movie came out.

 

[Bandit1]

i know it wouldve bombed even more but it be crazy if the marketing didnt show Ford at all in promotion. Total surprise

Yeah I thought about that too, would have been really cool.

 

[duckroll]

Stelline makes memories for Wallace corp. It's Wallace corp. that implants them. She just added one of her real memories to the pile, and I think it just so happens that K has it.

SS Rare gacha memory?