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[Rentahamster]

I thought it was cute. Whatever.

 

[mrklaw]

again THIS IS NOT ABOUT "FAT PEOPLE that don't wanna be reminded of how little they work out" - neither is it about people with a genetic predisposition to weight gain / loss.

This is about calorie counts being a trigger to people suffering from Anorexia - a widespread and severe mental disorder. Something that roughly 1-2% (depending on sources) of women and roughly .5% of men suffer at any point in their lives. Many of them - much like alcoholism - never fully recovering and always having a disturbed relationship to food, calories, their bodies and nutrition.
It's the third most common chronic disease among young people, after asthma and type 1 diabetes.

Anorexia has a mortality rate of up to 4%. (and that's with treatment. Without it's up to 20%)

How do those people cope with buying literally any food which has a calorie count included by law on the packaging?

 

[Skellig Gra]

I really do wonder how we balance these things. With 40% of the adult population being obese, at that point you really do have to just get shit in front of people's faces. Show them what they should be doing and try and coerce them into doing it. That's not even mentioning it's really better for environment and our cities overall to get people walking rather than driving every mile or so.

How do you balance a solution that needs to be very pushy to even work with those that do have legitimate problems on the other end of the spectrum and really do get triggered by those sorts of things?

There is no solution to force people to lose weight. You have to help prevent them from gaining the weight in the first place.

 

[FallingEdge]

It was this tweet that started the blowback.

https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/920076957735440384

I honestly don't see the problem. I just see it as interesting data.

This tweet is terrible and smh at all of this.

 

[eot]

If it’s 1000 steps per block lol

I've never counted steps so I don't have a feeling for how far that is, but maybe it's more than the blocks I'm imaging. Like, four Manhattan blocks are more than the blocks here, but still.

 

[Fliesen]

How do those people cope with buying literally any food which has a calorie count included by law on the packaging?

I've given an answer to this question over and over again - in case you really don't understand the difference and aren't just wilfully ignoring the point:

Well, really badly. But it's a necessary evil.
To an anorexic person buying and consuming food can already be an incredibly distressing task. Which is why many of them would prefer for their navigation app not to bring up the issue of nutrition all of a sudden. Google Maps, for the last 10 years, has never tried to be a "health" app. Trust me, if this was a mandatory feature, there'd be people switching to the Inferior Apple maps just to avoid these kinds of triggers.
If i go to a restaurant or a grocery store, i know what i've signed up for. Just like when i buy a fitbit or any other activity tracker.

They could have teased this (very useful) feature in a splash screen, like so many apps do, and have the user decide whether or not they want to actually use it. Google's introduction, but also the removal, was rather badly handled. I'm sure they'll bring it back and make it an opt-in. Why wouldn't they.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I've never counted steps so I don't have a feeling for how far that is, but maybe it's more than the blocks I'm imaging. Like, four Manhattan blocks are more than the blocks here, but still.

Average person takes about 2000 steps per mile, so 4000 steps is 2 miles. 1 block being half a mile in 4 blocks 4000 steps anecdote. So 4000 steps is like walking the width of Manhattan.

 

[ErichWK]

Maybe: Lindsay
@lindsayism
Replying to @TaylorLorenz @_eleanorina and @googlemaps
Not to mention the fact that all the latest studies show exercise does not cause weight loss

???????

The fuck am I reading. So was the person who studying this someone who suffered from Eating Disorders? Or was she looking out for people who might suffer from Eating disorders?

 

[Booser]

For fucks sake. People will literally complain about anything.

 

[KillLaCam]

Oh Ok

 

[Mechanized]

For fucks sake. People will literally complain about anything.

Tell that to people with eating disorders. I have a co-worker whose daughter had to be hospitalized because she was exercising herself to death to look a certain way. Stick thin and still thought she was fat. This kind of thing can be dangerous and enabling for people with real problems.

 

[RDreamer]

There is no solution to force people to lose weight. You have to help prevent them from gaining the weight in the first place.

Right, and I think being proactive means getting information in front of people about the activities they choose to do throughout the day. This is exactly that. Tons of people choose the easy routes. They drive a mile when they could walk. They take an elevator when they could take some stairs. Being active throughout the day helps. Taking away that push isn't a good idea, I think. Preventing people from gaining weight in the first place will really require a lot of "getting in front of people's faces" in any way possible and I just wonder how you balance that now with the fact that it necessarily means getting in front of those with anorexia's face also. It's a hard thing to balance.

 

[Yukiari]

Right, and I think being proactive means getting information in front of people about the activities they choose to do throughout the day. This is exactly that. Tons of people choose the easy routes. They drive a mile when they could walk. They take an elevator when they could take some stairs. Being active throughout the day helps. Taking away that push isn't a good idea, I think. Preventing people from gaining weight in the first place will really require a lot of "getting in front of people's faces" in any way possible and I just wonder how you balance that now with the fact that it necessarily means getting in front of those with anorexia's face also. It's a hard thing to balance.

It is but if google can bring this back and let users toggle this off and on I think it would work well. I don't understand why they just up and removed it like they did.

 

[zelas]

Tell that to people with eating disorders. I have a co-worker whose daughter had to be hospitalized because she was exercising herself to death to look a certain way. Stick thin and still thought she was fat. This kind of thing can be dangerous and enabling for people with real problems.

It can also enable people who are eating themselves to death to do better. Including people with eating disorders (night eating). Why is the well being of one group more important than others? How is that determined?

Google has a problem with not giving people options but I still have a problem with people who have a problem with personal accountability. Should there be no more beer commercials because someone is going to be triggered? Should we not allow kids to wear swimsuits in public? Should there not be any imagery of violence? People need more help than just hiding and pretending nothing is wrong with them if benign occurrences in life are a problem for them.

 

[Pagusas]

Part of me wishes google would just turn every fucking icon on google maps into some form of a cupcake just to give the middle finger to all these complainers and "triggered" people. What the hell is wrong with people.

 

[Yukiari]

It can also enable people who are eating themselves to death to do better. Including people with eating disorders (night eating). Why is the well being of one group more important than others? How is that determined?

Google has a problem with not giving people options but I still have a problem with people who have a problem with personal accountability. Should there be no more beer commercials because someone is going to be triggered? Should we not allow kids to wear swimsuits in public? Should there not be any imagery of violence? People need more help than just hiding and pretending nothing is wrong with them if benign occurrences in life are a problem for them.

I don't think that that what it is when it comes to ED, people with ED aren't just pretending anything. It's a mental illness, which makes it very illogical. You can tell someone with anorexia they're not fat and they're on the verge of being a living skeleton but do you think they actually see that? No, they still see fat everywhere. I have to turn off my triggers can I'm learning what they are. I don't eat fast food because the guilt is almost immediate and I want to wretch. At the same time I don't want to stop anyone from enjoying that food if they can eat it comfortably themselves. People with ED's need a lot of help but I don't think anyone is hiding and pretending nothing is wrong. I know something is wrong every moment I'm awake. I count calories religiously. I pre measure all foods, and I have a hard time attending social gatherings where I know there will be a ton of food that I don't know what's in it or how many calories there are so I avoid those situations. I'm not pretending, google should of made it optional instead of taking their ball and going home.

 

[Fliesen]

It can also enable people who are eating themselves to death to do better. Including people with eating disorders (night eating). Why is the well being of one group more important than others? How is that determined?

Google has a problem with not giving people options but I still have a problem with people who have a problem with personal accountability. Should there be no more beer commercials because someone is going to be triggered? Should we not allow kids to wear swimsuits in public? Should there not be any imagery of violence? People need more help than just hiding and pretending nothing is wrong with them if benign occurrences in life are a problem for them.

Nobody is saying that. Neither is more important.

But in its current, short lived, implementation (undocumented introduction, no opt-in, no opt-out) one group was possibly negatively affected.
Make it an opt-in and everyone's free to choose, ignore or (in the case of anorexic people) hide(!) this feature.

I don't think anyone's advocating against them bringing it back as an optional feature.

Part of me wishes google would just turn every fucking icon on google maps into some form of a cupcake just to give the middle finger to all these complainers and "triggered" people. What the hell is wrong with people.

Some people suffer from a widespread mental disorder. That's what's "wrong" with them.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

Part of me wishes google would just turn every fucking icon on google maps into some form of a cupcake just to give the middle finger to all these complainers and "triggered" people. What the hell is wrong with people.

lol

 

[norm9]

Into the graveyard like the race changing app.

 

[RDreamer]

Part of me wishes google would just turn every fucking icon on google maps into some form of a cupcake just to give the middle finger to all these complainers and "triggered" people. What the hell is wrong with people.

This is a big issue in our country. People who retaliate to legitimate criticism, even if a bit more rage infused than it may have needed to be, with a complete and utter lack of empathy and outright revenge.

Seriously. Learn some empathy.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What a dumb thing to get upset over. Jesus

I read all the tweets, she was being crazy

Yeah, that woman is unhinged. When people make fun of fragile snowflakes, this is a perfect example (and not, say, someone offended at sexist or racist slurs).

Again so what. She's some person on twitter who worded her valid concerns aggressively.

But there is nothing valid about her concerns.

 

[mrklaw]

I've given an answer to this question over and over again - in case you really don't understand the difference and aren't just wilfully ignoring the point:

Well, really badly. But it's a necessary evil.
To an anorexic person buying and consuming food can already be an incredibly distressing task. Which is why many of them would prefer for their navigation app not to bring up the issue of nutrition all of a sudden. Google Maps, for the last 10 years, has never tried to be a "health" app. Trust me, if this was a mandatory feature, there'd be people switching to the Inferior Apple maps just to avoid these kinds of triggers.
If i go to a restaurant or a grocery store, i know what i've signed up for. Just like when i buy a fitbit or any other activity tracker.

They could have teased this (very useful) feature in a splash screen, like so many apps do, and have the user decide whether or not they want to actually use it. Google's introduction, but also the removal, was rather badly handled. I'm sure they'll bring it back and make it an opt-in. Why wouldn't they.

I wasn’t being, just hadn’t caught up with the thread. Appreciate the straight response. I think maybe the pop up calorie counter in the default directions view is the most in your face - even if you haven’t chosen to walk. So I could see that being an issue to some. But likewise I could see it being a benefit to some too.

This is a tricky thing. google could hide it away, but then how would people easily find out about it? Some things are helpful to surface to get more traction with users.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cake-calorie-counting-feature-after-backlash/

That's a lot of nothing cause there's no data. It's just "eh, you know, it could happen."

Fun fact: scientists generally use "could" because it "could" happen.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

Some people just have too little worry in their life if something like this is problematic.

But I agree that this must be an option. Maybe they could even add more thing to convert besides cupcakes like french fries!

 

[jrcbandit]

This is so freaking ridiculous. The US has a huge obesity problem, please stop with the fat shaming BS. It's a huge health issue that's actually treatable by watching what you eat and exercise... Being obsessed with model thinness is unhealthy for society but not actually trying to watch what you eat and living a generally healthy lifestyle.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

What a dumb thing to get upset over. Jesus

Yeah, that woman is unhinged. When people make fun of fragile snowflakes, this is a perfect example (and not, say, someone offended at sexist or racist slurs).


But there is nothing valid about her concerns.

Yeah those snowflakes with debilitating eating disorders! Fuck them amirite????

 

[excelsiorlef]

What a dumb thing to get upset over. Jesus

Yeah, that woman is unhinged. When people make fun of fragile snowflakes, this is a perfect example (and not, say, someone offended at sexist or racist slurs).


But there is nothing valid about her concerns.

You couldn't turn it off and the cup cake presentation were her main concerns...

 

[Permanently A]

That's a cool feature, can they add it as an option?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

You can't have your cupcake and hit the road, too

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is so freaking ridiculous. The US has a huge obesity problem, please stop with the fat shaming BS. It's a huge health issue that's actually treatable by watching what you eat and exercise... Being obsessed with model thinness is unhealthy for society but not actually trying to watch what you eat and living a generally healthy lifestyle.

One of the major concerns was actually about people with anorexia and bulimia... There's calorie estimates have to on when all you want to do is find out how to get from A to B.

That Google didn't make it an option is odd. That they took it out entirely rather than add a toggle is also odd.

 

[Neoweee]

Yeah those snowflakes with debilitating eating disorders! Fuck them amirite????

Yes, fuck them. You shouldn't inhibit others' ability to get useful health information because a few people are too sensitive to seeing the benefits of exercise.

It should be an option, but forcing is better never having a choice to see it at all.

 

[Yukiari]

Yes, fuck them. You shouldn't inhibit others' ability to get useful health information because a few people are too sensitive to seeing the benefits of exercise.

Again, who said that it should be taken away instead of it being OPTIONAL?! Why is there no middle ground here? All in or all out?

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

Yes, fuck them. You shouldn't inhibit others' ability to get useful health information because a few people are too sensitive to seeing the benefits of exercise.

It should be an option, but forcing is better never having a choice to see it at all.

Personally, I don't think this is useful health information because it's highly subjective and presumptive - not to mention ableist as hell

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Personally, I don't think this is useful health information because it's highly subjective and presumptive - not to mention ableist as hell

How is it subjective? How is it ableist?!

 

[Flux]

I would have actually liked to have that feature. I wall everywhere in the city and it's just an extra bit of information to use in the fight against overweight / obesity epidemic.

Fat acceptance is going to crush the medical systems worldwide. If not already the case.

 

[Neoweee]

Personally, I don't think this is useful health information because it's highly subjective and presumptive - not to mention ableist as hell

If it is ableist to acknowledge the fact that walking a lot burns calories, then I welcome a more ableist future. Just like how I want calorie counts on every menu and displayed more prominently on every food package.

Good health, nutrition, and exercise information is one of the keys to fighting America's obesity epidemic.

 

[poppedcollar69]

It's the third most common chronic disease among young people, after asthma and type 1 diabetes.

first, 'among young people'? talk about picking and choosing your data

but you mentioned diabetes

More than 29 million Americans are living with diabetes, and 86 million are living with prediabetes, a serious health condition that increases a person’s risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases.

Type 2 diabetes accounts for about 90% to 95% of all diagnosed cases of diabetes, and type 1 diabetes accounts for about 5%. The health and economic costs for both are enormous:

Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death in the United States in 2013 (and may be underreported).
Diabetes is the leading cause of kidney failure, lower-limb amputations, and adult-onset blindness.
More than 20% of health care spending is for people with diagnosed diabetes.

sounds like a public health crisis that needs to be addressed!!!!

 

[Yukiari]

first, 'among young people'? talk about picking and choosing your data

but you mentioned diabetes





sounds like a public health crisis that needs to be addressed!!!!

Did you know there is a large group of people with diabetes that have an ED called diabulimia? Again, who said this stuff shouldn't be addressed? Do people think the obesity crisis is just going to be fixed by throwing apps at it and saying hey do more? I mean we already have lots of apps that do this and the problem is still rising. It starts at home, with the young, the parents, the teachers, the doctors, schools. Technology makes our lives easier but we should never forget the human element.

 

[meow]

Cupcake motivation sounds like the best motivation. Even better if you can set a weight loss goal so that it tweaks how much you are walking so that you can eat the cupcake and still have a deficit.

 

[poppedcollar69]

Did you know there is a large group of people with diabetes that have an ED called diabulimia? Again, who said this stuff shouldn't be addressed? Do people think the obesity crisis is just going to be fixed by throwing apps at it and saying hey do more? I mean we already have lots of apps that do this and the problem is still rising. It starts at home, with the young, the parents, the teachers, the doctors, schools. Technology makes our lives easier but we should never forget the human element.

kinda sounds like youre grasping at straws but maybe i'm misreading

also you neglected to mention that diabulimia is associated with type 1 diabetes, and you know i'd kinda like to focus on the issue that affects 1 in 3 americans? maybe?

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

How is it subjective? How is it ableist?!

Subjective - calories counts vary wildly by person. This count in google could actually lead to worse habits - i.e. "Google told me I burned 100 cals walking (when you actually only burned 20) I can have that extra cupcake!"

Ableist - It's like those messages on elevators telling you to take the stairs instead. What if you can't take the stairs? If you don't think it's ableist, fine, but at least acknowledge that it's condescending as hell

 

[SealedSeven]

Now how am I supposed to know how many cupcakes I lose walking to the cupcake store? Won't know how many I'd need to buy to re-up my cupcake amount.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Did you know there is a large group of people with diabetes that have an ED called diabulimia? Again, who said this stuff shouldn't be addressed? Do people think the obesity crisis is just going to be fixed by throwing apps at it and saying hey do more? I mean we already have lots of apps that do this and the problem is still rising. It starts at home, with the young, the parents, the teachers, the doctors, schools. Technology makes our lives easier but we should never forget the human element.

I don't think anyone is saying that, but I do think there's merit to normalizing health conscious thinking. You say there are tons of apps for this, and yes, that's true, but there were also resources to get nutrition information before they were on labels and restaurant menus.

This is more about reducing the barrier to finding this out by piggybacking on the ubiquity of existing services. Think how many more people use Google Maps vs MapMyRun or Run Keeper despite them all being apps.

Granted this is a separate discussion from this thread, which is dealing with the potential negatives of this particular info, but still

 

[ninecubed]

I don't know... I think including the info about burning calories while walking is pretty cool (as an option, at least).

 

[Manzanas]

This just seems like a case of people being offended for other people who actually wouldn't be offended by this.

Seriously, trying to promote a healthier lifestyle is considered bad?

 

[Yukiari]

I don't think anyone is saying that, but I do think there's merit to normalizing health conscious thinking. You say there are tons of apps for this, and yes, that's true, but there were also resources to get nutrition information before they were on labels and restaurant menus.

This is more about reducing the barrier to finding this out by piggybacking on the ubiquity of existing services. Think how many more people use Google Maps vs MapMyRun or Run Keeper despite them all being apps.

Granted this is a separate discussion from this thread, which is dealing with the potential negatives of this particular info, but still

But at the same time, why are people so against this being an option instead of a forced decision? I don't think the problems lays where people are placing the blame at. I don't see people saying that being conscious of the problem is wrong but for those that it may effect in a negative way should be able to turn it off. I have no problem with Google having this option but allow me the option of turning it off. I don't need this thrown in my face everywhere so for me I wouldn't use it but you might. I don't think anyone here is saying that we should just not do anything at all but to respect those that may not be where you all mentally and give those that option to choose.

kinda sounds like youre grasping at straws but maybe i'm misreading

also you neglected to mention that diabulimia is associated with type 1 diabetes, and you know i'd kinda like to focus on the issue that affects 1 in 3 americans? maybe?

I'm not grasping, I just want people to recognize that people like us with ED have real problems and while we as a nation should work on this crisis I don't think forcing something like this on people who have an ED is going to help them. ED's are real, they can kill people so why can't we have options instead of just going hey you're the minority who cares about what you want compared to the masses?

 

[Neoweee]

But at the same time, why are people so against this being an option instead of a forced decision?

Nobody is against it! But right now it is a binary yes/no. It was there, with no option, and now it is gone, with no option. You're forcing people to take a choice on something that hasn't actually happened yet.

 

[g11]

What a trivial thing to get upset about, both the implementation and removal.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yeah those snowflakes with debilitating eating disorders! Fuck them amirite????

*sigh* Yes, thinking that this information is useful at best (and uninteresting at worst) is the same thing as throwing every people with eating disorders under the bus. C'mon.

Let's get real. Nobody is saying people with eating disorders don't deserve help or compassion. But this is basic information about calories. If merely seeing the information makes you upset, you have problems way beyond an eating disorder.

You couldn't turn it off and the cup cake presentation were her main concerns...

I know. These are bogus concerns. Anyone who legit gets mad at cupcake iconography is beyond fragile.

 

[Yukiari]

Nobody is against it! But right now it is a binary yes/no. It was there, with no option, and now it is gone, with no option. You're forcing people to take a choice on something that hasn't actually happened yet.

How are we forcing people to do anything? Because Google decided to restrict it instead of offering an option because someone challenged their app? So people should never say anything negative about anything because it may be taken away. Don't ever have a opinion on anything because if you do who knows what might happen? I'm sorry that google made the poor decision to flat out take it away, that's not something I would of wanted. Hopefully google does bring it back, why not write to them and show your support of the feature. I really think google handled the response poorly but I don't blame people for voicing their concerns.