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[yepyepyep]

As a primary school teacher I get really annoyed when petty fights or hitting happens between the kids. You are trying to teach them that violence is not suitable for solving problems or expressing anger. Physical punishment teaches them the wrong lesson.

 

[BearPawB]

I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.

No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.

Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.

But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.

Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught

 

[doby]

Im not sure if it works, I was smacked but it didn't stop me having tantrums or being naughty.

My father used to punish me and my siblings with bum smacks. I can remember automatically dropping to the floor whenever I'd been naughty so my bum wasn't easily accessible for a smack, ofcourse this never worked and I just got picked up instead.

It absolutely affected my relationship with my father. After being smacked and me being sent to my room he used to come to see me to patch things up with a hug. Although I agreed to the hug, I can always remember resenting it and him. I was scared of him, but then that was always an inevitable outcome using physical punishment. To this day I feel awkward around him.

It didn't really help that he has a short temper, so the whole situation was pretty terrifying. I actually experience mild ptsd when I witness a child disobeying his/her father, so that's not a good thing.

 

[FallingEdge]

The most frustrating part about this thread is the amount of people calling parents losers and pathetic. A lot of people who have parents who used physical discipline as a tool are perfectly fine and have a loving and respectful relationship with their parents and understand the situation. Many do not see it as abuse.

I am not saying there aren't better ways but just because parents used physical discipline doesn't make them any less of a parent.

 

[dohdough]

Imagine seeing a father scream at his daughter that she is a cunt and a whore every day of her life.. oh look emotional abuse through yelling by someone meant to protect and raise you...... Do i win the prize for showing you how that works?
sorry for terms used, but hey it shows how that works.

So are you accusing me of calling my kids those things or did I even come close to giving the slightest hint that I do?

 

[Septimius]

Of course there are times when you need immediate compliance from your child! If they are putting themselves or other in danger, that's one of those times, and I'll absolutely spank a child in that situation.

There are hundreds of other things to do. It's not even a last resort.

Actually, there are times when spanking instills understanding. I'll give you a perfect example- when you have a child who is physically bullying a smaller child. After the spanking, you can correlate how physical punishment by someone larger than them made them feel to the act of bullying.

That makes no sense. It's getting awfully close to "this hurts me more than it hurts you". If someone does something illegal, we don't do that back to them to show them why they shouldn't do that. Children are no different, and I don't get why you think it in any way instills understanding, let alone the fact that there are so many other, better ways of handling the situation.

For the rest, you are welcome to not spank your children. It still works for me and my family, and is perfectly legal where I live. I'll continue to do so as long as those two things hold true. Again, it's not something I do often, but my kids do know that the option is still there.

That's an argument of authority. It being legal doesn't mean it's good or that it works. There's 20 years of research on the subject that's been quoted numerous times in this thread that shows there are no positive developmental effects of spanking.

 

[elyetis]

I personally don't think children are punished enough these days. All I see everywhere are entitled spoiled brats. Not just brown people because I think the culturally there is still a somewhat heavy hand when it comes to punishments.

I agree with the bolded, but punishement != Physical punishment. My mother have been taking care of children ever since I was born ( so 30 years ago ), and I saw just like her how children changed.
But there is also something very clear, those who act "bad" ( aka : spoiled brats syndrome ) only do it with their parent, not with her.
Why ? well obviously the dynamic with parent is different than with their childminder ( not sure it's the right word for her job "assistante maternelle" ), but it's simply because more often than not now parents simply put no boundaries to their children ( at least until it's too late ), whereas she does; well either that or because it's the only way to get their parents attention ( which is sadly often true ).

"It's cold outside put your coat" - "no" - "okay, it's not important anyway" is something I saw happen just a couple days ago.

It's not about getting physical, it's about putting boundaries, making your child do what you ask him to, from putting a coat to holding hand to cross the road. Your child won't love you more because you are never "mean" to them, they will just respect you less.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Your poor mom.

I know its a grammatical error but truth be told I once considered when I was in my 20s I seriously considered self inflicted beatings to punish my children.

Lets shed some light on physical abuse. My wife got beat by her dad when she was a kid. Punishments and stuff. First two years of marriage when we would have arguments boiling into fights and she would constantly think I would strike her. Because what her father did. It would only enrage me more and I would physically hurt myself to show her I'd rather hurt myself than harm her physically.

One fist through the wall and a broken hand later I realized I was being abusive to her regardless. So no, physical punishment isnt right. Using fear to get what you want is abuse.

Haha yes i corrected this.
I cannot speak for every case, i'm just saying that i don't consider a slap as an rare and extreme measure as beating or child abuse. Of course that if a child get beaten up, it would have negative impact on his future.

If somebody you worked for gave you a slap intended to punish you for misconduct, would that be different? If so, in what way?

My boss is equal to me, he is not in charge of my education, his authority is limited to the tasks i'm payed to do. The only suitable punishment if i'm not doing my job is to fire me. Our relationship is like a trade.

 

[sensui-tomo]

So are you accusing me of calling my kids those things or did I even come close to giving the slightest hint that I do?

no not accusing you of anything, just showing you how screaming/yelling at children could cause some issues for a child and be worse than slapping a child. its called degradation.

hitting a child or screaming at one is bad.

 

[Septimius]

I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.

No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.

Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.

But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.

Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught

 

[sojour]

Actually, there are times when spanking instills understanding. I'll give you a perfect example- when you have a child who is physically bullying a smaller child. After the spanking, you can correlate how physical punishment by someone larger than them made them feel to the act of bullying.

I'm not sure about this. Maybe it works? But it feels like to me that you (as the authoritative punisher) are acting as a bigger bully. This could lead to the normalization of bullying is okay as long as you have authority and/or you're the biggest bully around.

 

[sir_kevith]

See, stuff like this really hurts the anti-spanking side. It makes a lot of people look at you like those militant vegans we had another thread about. Most people who spank would not put themselves in that category and still dismiss it as over reactionary bullshit. Lots of people who were spanked have fine relationships with their families. 99.9999% of people spanked don't become serial killers.

For me, the only thing that worked was reading about the increased chances of anxiety in children who face corporal punishment. Even that might not work. Some people think it's healthy for a kid to have a little fear in them.

Well, I'd say a little spank is fine unless it's leaving a bruise or lasting injury, then it's too much.

Also, you're straw-manning me. I never said anything about becoming a serial-killer or even if it makes your kids maladjusted. I'm merely talking about the relationship between child and parent. I grew up with a lot of kids who were beat all the way into their teen years and none of them have good relationships with their parents. They just avoid them in their adult life.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.

No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.

Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.

But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.

Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught

I don't have a doctorate, only an undergraduate but most research we were presented and read about says the same about any punishment. Positive reinforcement is almost always the better way to get a long term response, but it requires a certain level of resources that don't always meet up with real world realities and expectations.

 

[trs1080]

This topic always pisses me off so much. You have someone saying they came out fine and yet they are tempted to hit their 3 year old son. What the fuck is wrong with you? Oh right, you were beat as a kid. What a coward.

Makes no sense. You can't hit other people's kids, you can't hit other adults, but hey I'm biologically tied to this kid so its OK if I hit that. Fuck outta here.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Positive reinforcement is a much better tool at influencing one's behavior than any form of punishment. Ask any psychologist.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I was raised in south America where its fairly common. I don't know if it's optimal but I turned out OK despite the physical harm. My parents used it sparingly and in extreme cases.

 

[The Futurist]

Here's the real problem when it comes to topics like this.

A lot of you guys are going absolutely fucking bananas taking everything to an extreme. Which tends to be the case here.

You said that a scientific study has shown that it doesn't work for the vast majority of cases. That is fair I will absolutely support that because it's the most current and what is accepted by the scientific community. That's how it should be and the whole world would be a better place if that's how we handled things. I agree.

Here's the simple distinction I was trying to make. It didn't have anything to do with hitting kids specifically. It doesn't have anything to do with autism because guess what? Huge case studies have been done and very large numbers show that vaccines don't cause autism. That is something directly measurable. It's a very small number out of a very large number. The point is it's clean measurement of hard numbers. Numbers of cases of diagnosed autism against the numbers of vaccinated children.

Now we are talking are physically punishing kids. What is your definition of hitting a child? How are we measuring that for a study? How often? With a weapon?

This is the problem.

My uncle used to flick us in the ears with his finger when we were bad. That was literally it. It stung a little bit, but is that child abuse? Is spanking a kid once every 6 months the same as some kid getting spanked every day?

This is why some people in this thread and in life say that they are fine with it. Because it never crosses that line. The issue is that the line is constantly moving and it's not defined at all. There is no real way to measure it. We know what goes too far, but that's the easy part and every person is different.

You better fucking believe that if my mother was beating me to the point where it did real damage, I would hate and despise her today. It didn't cross the line for me. Is it anecdotal, of course it is. Is hitting kids in general a bad move? Of course it is and like I've said before, I couldn't hit my kids.

This is a good read

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

 

[Gutek]

I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.

No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.

Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.

But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.

Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught

Well, according to OP you know nothing because it’s not real science! Checkmate, you armchair scientist.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

The problem is that it's illegal to assault other people. Somehow you say you're above that with your child. That's the issue. There are no position of authorities in the world that allows someone to use physical violence on someone. You don't stand above the law if you're the boss of someone, why do you feel you stand above the law when you're someone's parent?

You reasoning is ok in theory, but in practice, everything about parenting is about you being above them, you choose things for him and have the last word about what they should or should not do.

Are you against any disciplinary measures also ? It's also illegal to kidnap people and force them to be in your house, or to force them to go where you want them to go, or to force them to do karate or soccer instead of watching TV all day long, why parents should have this special right ? Well, because parents have a special relationship with their childs, they do have authority over them.

What if your kid don't want to go to school and just enjoy playing WoW more, who are you to know better than them, who are you to assert your authority over them ?
Well you love him/her, so you rather want him to succeed in live and go to college, so you have to force your will over your kid, even if it's ugly.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Well, I'd say a little spank is fine unless it's leaving a bruise or lasting injury, then it's too much.

Also, you're straw-manning me. I never said anything about becoming a serial-killer or even if it makes your kids maladjusted. I'm merely talking about the relationship between child and parent. I grew up with a lot of kids who were beat all the way into their teen years and none of them have good relationships with their parents. They just avoid them in their adult life.

The serial-killer comment was for the guy I quoted above you. Mind Hunters is a show about studying serial-killers.

Also, it's one thing to say don't beat your kids black and blue. Almost everyone who spanks their kids will agree with that these days. Most people aren't physically punished to that level anymore in most western countries.

 

[Snkfanatic]

I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.

No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.

Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.

But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.

Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught

I can say that being hit as a child made me fear fucking up in anyway as well. If I mess up at work or in my personal life it makes me damn near have a panic attack sometimes, even if it's nothing major. It's the same feeling I would get when I did something wrong as a kid and I knew what could be coming because of it.

A recent example...I dropped and broke a plate that I own and it instantly flashed me back to when I dropped a plate as a kid and the repercussions of that accident. Damn near 31 years later and it still sticks with me.

 

[Africanus]

It’s always kids too.
Sometimes one might see a 17 year old display the same sense of terrible judgment and logic. And yet, because they’re 6’2 and 213 pounds, the rules of engagement have changed. Because they aren’t significantly weaker than them, one won’t hit them.

I was hit as a child. Am I a serial killer? No. Did it substantially alter my relationship with my parents? Yes, to extents that I can measure and can’t.

I can’t say exactly to what extent I would be better if I hadn’t been physically hit, but probably would be a bit smarter here and there, and emotionally open. And that’s the issue, my anecdotal experience of a relatively normal person is just an anecdote.

 

[Altairre]

Here's the real problem when it comes to topics like this.

A lot of you guys are going absolutely fucking bananas taking everything to an extreme. Which tends to be the case here.

Saying that you shouldn't hit children is extreme?

 

[SpecX]

You go on to say that you subconsciously fear your parents, and you say you feel bad. You say it does nothing unless you talk to them.. Maybe just leave out the physical harm next time? If anything, being past the incident, talking about it with your children, then saying "you do get that I have to hit you now, right?" just sounds more fucked up than doing something in the heat of the moment.

I've thought of a few ways to respond to this, but the way GAF judges, it's in my best interest not to even go down this rabbit hole. Yes I've done it, no I don't approve of it, it's been over a year since I've done this. I've apologized to my kids the few times it happened and as I said I frown upon it which is why I haven't done it again.

Also, my physical abuse was "wait till you dad gets home" torture, then yelling/beating in the moment. Very different things and no I've never told them "you get why I hit you" and left it at that speech. I've had that speech before, I'm worlds better to my kids than my parents ever were to me.

 

[Daingurse]

I got my ass whooped when I was a kid. I got the belt, extension cords, and the open palm. Don't really think it helped me any. Just taught me to fear my mom, and made me hide things from her. I'm frankly not a well adjusted adult by any means, so I just don't see any benefit in corporal punishment personally.

If I ever have kids (doubtful honestly), I'm not going to use physical punishment. I think hitting your kids is wrong, and a lazy form of parenting.

 

[pablito]

I wouldn't beat my kids if I had kids.

My best friend and brother have kids. No beatings. They teach them well, they listen and learn when mistakes are made, and they're great kids. I don't see the need.

 

[Just_myles]

It's not imperative that kids learn they will get punished. It's imperative they learn there's consequences for their actions and in my opinion it's best to try and figure out how to make those consequences natural to what they've actually done. .

That is literally what I said. Children have to learn consequences. I don't know what you are getting at there.

Hitting a kid isn't instilling natural consequences for actions. It's instilling that "Dad is going to fucking hit me."

Well speaking from personal experience growing up with Marine as a father, sure, I knew that if I was caught doing X that my Dad would kick my ass(most times he did). So i'm not disagreeing there. But, I did learn that there is consequences for my actions and I have managed for the most part to stay out of trouble as a young adult and as a man in my mid 30s.

It really seems to me a lot of parents focus too much on literally just "curbing behavior" and not actually teaching life and social skills in their children. Learning YOU are going to hit them if they do bad doesn't actually go far in life because A) hitting people isn't a realistic solution to literally anything and B) it's also not really a consequence to almost anything they'll do out in society

I disagree with you. I think there are too many affluent lazy parents who don't want to talk to their kids like they're people. By not negatively reinforcing bad behavior we have kids who end up going unchecked and you know what, that affects my child. I have seen children who have parents who are lax disciplinarians. Those kids are the bullies and trouble makers. My son's school recently had a huge ordeal with relation to that. A kid was bullying other kids. The bully come to find out has been doing this to other kids for a few years and the parents(even the school) knew about it and did nothing.

Btw sure, I go upside my sons head when he says something inappropriate or watches pewdeepie videos but, I explain why it's a problem.

I have the most awesome kid ever and honestly disciplining him is not really a problem.

 

[turmoil]

Haha yes i corrected this.
I cannot speak for every case, i'm just saying that i don't consider a slap as an rare and extreme measure as beating or child abuse. Of course that if a child get beaten up, it would have negative impact on his future.



My boss is equal to me, he is not in charge of my education, his authority is limited to the tasks i'm payed to do. The only suitable punishment if i'm not doing my job is to fire me. Our relationship is like a trade.

The authority a parent has over its kids doesn't justify any kind of physical punishment, however 'light', in fact makes them worse because kids are defenseless against their parents in the privacy of their home.

 

[Messofanego]

The most frustrating part about this thread is the amount of people calling parents losers and pathetic. A lot of people who have parents who used physical discipline as a tool are perfectly fine and have a loving and respectful relationship with their parents and understand the situation. Many do not see it as abuse.

I am not saying there aren't better ways but just because parents used physical discipline doesn't make them any less of a parent.

If physical punishment doesn't make someone a lesser parent, then do you see it as a valid parenting method along with the other types?

 

[Septimius]

You said that a scientific study has shown that it doesn't work for the vast majority of cases. That is fair I will absolutely support that because it's the most current and what is accepted by the scientific community. That's how it should be and the whole world would be a better place if that's how we handled things. I agree.

No, we've shown that research has concluded that in no way does physical punishment help. That's a big difference from "most of the time". It never has any positive effects. It often has negative effects.

Here's the simple distinction I was trying to make. It didn't have anything to do with hitting kids specifically. It doesn't have anything to do with autism because guess what? Huge case studies have been done and very large numbers show that vaccines don't cause autism. That is something directly measurable. It's a very small number out of a very large number. The point is it's clean measurement of hard numbers. Numbers of cases of diagnosed autism against the numbers of vaccinated children.

Now we are talking are physically punishing kids. What is your definition of hitting a child? How are we measuring that for a study? How often? With a weapon?

This is the problem.

Yes, that's true. The problem is that that's a part of what defining a research study is. You define the exact parameters of what you're studying, and you're defining the parameters by which you're going to measure that, before you have any data, so you don't cherry-pick the data for it to validate your terms (p-hacking aside)

That's why each research starts by outlining their methods. You just show your own ignorance when you say "oh, but you have to take all of these things into consideration, so I don't believe the research", when the whole point of science is to distill it down to a point where it can be presented as something objective. That's why these things are peer-reviewed, to ensure no one's taken any shortcuts or otherwise cheated to get the results they wanted.

You better fucking believe that if my mother was beating me to the point where it did real damage, I would hate and despise her today. It didn't cross the line for me. Is it anecdotal, of course it is. Is hitting kids in general a bad move?

This is called moving the goal posts and it's a false equivalency. You don't have to "do real damage" as you state it to do real damage. The real damage is psychological, not physical. When physical punishment has no positive outcomes, and only negative ones, it's really hard to say that it's not a bad move.

This is a good read

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

That's called cherry-picking. It's when you google something and find the first thing that's inline with what you're trying to prove.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

If you deliberately hurt your children you failed as a parent.

Blanket statements like this are so reductive. Why are some of you so black/white with this topic? The hubris of dismissing everyone who tries to explain their view from personal experience with "yeah, but studies and research" is the most eye-roll inducing bullshit I've come across.

But yes, despite the fact I was sometimes slapped on the hand if I did something extremely bad makes my parents bad parents, sure. I don't think it's necessary to physically punish kids, and I wouldn't do it to my own, but I feel there's a difference between a spank and someone punching up their child for doing something wrong.

 

[Griss]

I was spanked but only a couple of times as a child. I think it works if it's used very, very sparingly.

There are two specific cases where I think it can have value:

-When a young child hits or physically harms another child.
A mild slap or spank followed by a talk saying "Did that feel good? No. why would you want to inflict that feeling on others?" can be effective at helping a child understand why hitting is wrong. My parents did this to me when I was young, probably only twice, and I never hit or fought throughout the rest of my childhood.

-When a child does something or has a history of doing something life threatening.
I have a friend whose 4 year old daughter has multiple times gotten up onto the counter and started removing knives from the wooden knife block. After the 3rd time they gave her a light spanking - which they never otherwise do - because it's simply too important for her to learn not to play with knives and she was forgetting / not responding to the 'stern talks'. A spanking definitely tells a child 'this is a next-level infraction you MUST not do'.

If you deliberately hurt your children you failed as a parent.

So a parent who brings their child to a doctor or dentist where they'll suffer the pain of an injection or extracted tooth is a failure of a parent? No.

Spanking is seen the same way by many - mild suffering now in the belief that much more important good is being done.

Now, that point of view is often used as a cover for revolting child abuse, but as in the examples I've given I do think there's a time and a place.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Well, according to OP you know nothing because it’s not real science! Checkmate, you armchair scientist.

Look, I get what you're trying to do here, it's bad to be anti-science, but any actual social scientist is going to understand that there are limits to the the results of their research. More than any other field, there's no one-size-fits-all answer towards the true cause and effects of human behavior. Social sciences should be used as a guide, not a be all end all.

 

[Messofanego]

Btw sure, I go upside my sons head when he says something inappropriate or watches pewdeepie videos but, I explain why it's a problem.

I have the most awesome kid ever and honestly disciplining him is not really a problem.

So you're admitting to hitting your kid. If disciplining him is not a problem, why do you resort to hitting his head?

 

[The Futurist]

Saying that you shouldn't hit children is extreme?

No.

Calling people shitty, losers, and other names. Then insisting that a kid that was slapped a few times was abused, that is extreme.

That's part of the problem.

 

[ApharmdX]

Here's the real problem when it comes to topics like this.

A lot of you guys are going absolutely fucking bananas taking everything to an extreme. Which tends to be the case here.

Frankly, taking it to the extreme devalues actual child abuse, which remains a deadly serious problem today.

There are hundreds of other things to do. It's not even a last resort.

That's an argument of authority. It being legal doesn't mean it's good or that it works. There's 20 years of research on the subject that's been quoted numerous times in this thread that shows there are no positive developmental effects of spanking.

No, there aren't, not always, and that isn't realistic.

And it does work, to ensure immediate compliance. No one is debating that. It's the long-term effects which are debatable.

 

[dohdough]

no not accusing you of anything, just showing you how screaming/yelling at children could cause some issues for a child and be worse than slapping a child. its called degradation.

hitting a child or screaming at one is bad.

I'm not an ignoramus; I know exactly how it's works. I want to know how my comment got extrapolated to the point where you felt you needed give an example of daily verbal abuse as opposed to occasionally raising one's voice in frustration.

 

[RDreamer]

That is literally what I said. Children have to learn consequences. I don't know what you are getting at there.

Punishment via physical violence is separate from consequences. That's what I'm getting at. It's not a natural consequence for almost anything you have in life.

Well speaking from personal experience growing up with Marine as a father, sure, I knew that if I was caught doing X that my Dad would kick my ass(most times he did). So i'm not disagreeing there. But, I did learn that there is consequences for my actions and I have managed for the most part to stay out of trouble as a young adult and as a man in my mid 30s.

Because I should trust your own judgement on how you turned out after possibly being abused? Why won't people admit they're probably not the best judge of their own parents. Every piece of research in existence says there are negative consequences. Every psychologist around will tell you not to fucking do it. I'm sure you can find people that licked asbestos growing up and turned out just fine but you shouldn't be feeding it to your children.

I disagree with you. I think there are too many affluent lazy parents who don't want to talk to their kids like they're people. By not negatively reinforcing bad behavior we have kids who end up going unchecked and you know what, that affects my child. I have seen children who have parents who are lax disciplinarians. Those kids are the bullies and trouble makers. My son's school recently had a huge ordeal with relation to that. A kid was bullying other kids. The bully come to find out has been doing this to other kids for a few years and the parents(even the school) knew about it and did nothing.

Btw sure, I go upside my sons head when he says something inappropriate or watches pewdeepie videos but, I explain why it's a problem.

I have the most awesome kid ever and honestly disciplining him is not really a problem.

Kids are people, holy fucking shit.

Cool, wanna go with anecdotes? The bullies I knew growing up were the ones whose parents beat them the most. Every kid I knew who had parents that hit them turned out violent themselves and/or emotionally stunted in some way.

You hit your son when he says something inappropriate? Jesus christ, that's insanity. Clearly your father hitting you has continued this cycle.

You also can't say disciplining him is not a problem, because you don't know. You won't know for a very long time. Hell, you might not ever know. But research says it's bad. Stop hitting your kid.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

The authority a parent has over its kids doesn't justify any kind of physical punishment, however 'light', in fact makes them worse because kids are defenseless against their parents in the privacy of their home.

Well, kids are defenseless anyways in the privacy of their home, it's why child abuse is so common and prevalent. I don't know how a slap make that any different. Abuse is bad everybody agree on that, the issue is that we don't have the same definition about what abuse is.

I'm really curious about what you would do if you have multiples kids and the strongest start to repeatedly hit the others.

 

[sir_kevith]

The serial-killer comment was for the guy I quoted above you. Mind Hunters is a show about studying serial-killers.

Also, it's one thing to say don't beat your kids black and blue. Almost everyone who spanks their kids will agree with that these days. Most people aren't physically punished to that level anymore in most western countries.

Ah so we agree then!

Well... my apologies, good day to you sir.

 

[Z..]

Absolutely not, you are teaching them that violence solves problems.

I'm not saying I'd ever do it because violence must indeed be avoided as much as possible...
However, I'm not that certain about your conclusion itself since our generation (I'm 30) grew up getting physically punished quite often and it really doesn't seem to have had a demonstrable effect on the majority of people.

 

[Messofanego]

Blanket statements like this are so reductive. Why are some of you so black/white with this topic? The hubris of dismissing everyone who tries to explain their view from personal experience with "yeah, but studies and research" is the most eye-roll inducing bullshit I've come across.

But yes, despite the fact I was sometimes slapped on the hand if I did something extremely bad makes my parents bad parents, sure. I don't think it's necessary to physically punish kids, and I wouldn't do it to my own, but I feel there's a difference between a spank and someone punching up their child for doing something wrong.

What is anecdotal experience good for in an argument when speaking about others, though?

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I'm not an ignoramus; I know exactly how it's works. I want to know how my comment got extrapolated to the point where you felt you needed give an example of daily verbal abuse as opposed to occasionally raising one's voice in frustration.

This is how a lot of people feel about spanking. You'll see people in here attributing a light spank that doesn't even turn a butt red to the same level as a close-handed fist to the face.

 

[Just_myles]

So you're admitting to hitting your kid. If disciplining him is not a problem, why do you resort to hitting his head?

Yes. I might pop him upside the head. I'm not slapping the shit out of him or punching him. It appears to me that you implying that I am. I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

 

[obin_gam]

Don't hit anyone. Not adults. Not kids.

Just be fucking nice to each other. What's so goddamn difficult?

 

[Muffin1611]

Blanket statements like this are so reductive. Why are some of you so black/white with this topic? The hubris of dismissing everyone who tries to explain their view from personal experience with "yeah, but studies and research" is the most eye-roll inducing bullshit I've come across.

But yes, despite the fact I was sometimes slapped on the hand if I did something extremely bad makes my parents bad parents, sure. I don't think it's necessary to physically punish kids, and I wouldn't do it to my own, but I feel there's a difference between a spank and someone punching up their child for doing something wrong.

Saying that studies and research far outweigh any anecdotal experience cited here in correctness isn't hubris, it's a fact. Rather concerning that you find that to be bullshit.

 

[SpecX]

Yes. I might pop him upside the head. I'm not slapping the shit out of him or punching him. It appears to me that you implying that I am. I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

I get what you're saying, but it's taken as you smacked the kid upside the head so hard their face went flying into a wall. It's a playful gesture which is also in turn driving a point, but it's wrong...

 

[RDreamer]

Yes. I might pop him upside the head. I'm not slapping the shit out of him or punching him. It appears to me that you implying that I am. I'm really not sure what you are getting at.

He might be getting at the fact that you're popping a defenseless child in the head for merely saying something inappropriate and that's kind of bonkers.

 

[Koren]

Define "real"

Well, that's exactly my problem... I'd say that anything that hurt is child abuse... and you don't need additional laws to forbid that.

Now, a gentle patting of the hand of a child, is it physical abuse? Where do you put the limit? Seems awfully fuzzy to me.

If you basically ban physical contact, I'm sure it'll have interesting consequences (try to stop a kid from running away with words, that should be fun)

Also, yes verbal and emotional abuse is also child abuse

Well, that's something I believe should be talked more. I keeps hearing that physical punishment is bad, and I agree. I believe people start to understand it. But I fear that most people think that (even menial) words can't have long term consequences.

I believe my parents must have used "physical" reactions a couple times, but I can't even remember that clearly, so I can't say that I've been impacted by that (and since I can't see any kind of situation I would have physical reactions with a kid, I'm pretty sure I haven't been impacted)

But at the same time, I'm not mentally clear, and my sister is definitively mentally "sick", and if my parents had the best intentions of the world (and I really, really can't fault them, the only problem is their fears for our safety and of raising us right imprinted a bit too much on us), that sticked longer.

And when I see people saying "you don't have to touch children, you can just do X", I'm sometimes wondering whether they really think X is a better solution...

Raising kids is awfully hard.

False equivocation. Research shows that physical punishment only has the potential to be bad.

I don't think what that has to do with what I said. I just said that the kind of physical punishment you're referring to is already covered by child abuse laws, I'd say, so I don't see what exactly the laws about child education are for, and I'm not fond of the fuzzy borders it has.

 

[squall211]

False equivocation. Research shows that physical punishment only has the potential to be bad.



Yeah, we really should advocate for hitting our children because it didn't negatively damage you.

What.

Yeah, if you took that post to mean I was advocating for hitting kids, then I can't help you.