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[Clay Davis]

I am also from a South East Asian background and I was never hit. My parents opted for communication and time-outs over resorting to physical abuse.

Resorting to physicality and hitting ones child is a failure of ones ability to communicate properly.

There is never a reason to hit someone who is in your care and anyone who says otherwise is trying to convince themselves the abuse they suffered was justified. In the same way an abused partner justifies the abuse they suffer by using faulty logic like they abuse me because they care.

 

[Gutek]

I wish I had never been hit but I have to admit it sure worked on me. My parents never went to far with it though, usually just the rule of 3. Whether it was the belt, flip flop (I'd just pretend this one hurt), or bare handed. I learned to behave at a very young age and have had adults compliment my parents on my behavior ever since I was a kid, same with my sisters. They practically never spanked my little sister tho, and she's kind of a brat sometimes. I've never been a violent person and have a lot of patience with people, more than some deserve.

So fear, intimidation, and pain works on children, huh? Who would have thought.

 

[ApharmdX]

This topic again? And I see the usual stuff, hyperbole about spanking being child abuse (it's not, at least not in the US, unless you are leaving serious bruises), studies with varying results, etc.

Yes, physical punishment does work. No, you should not rely solely on physical punishments. Yes, it can have long-term consequences if you take it too far or do it too often.

It's been maybe two years since I've dished out a spanking. I reserve the right to spank but I have some guidelines:

• I don't spank a child when I am angry.
• I don't spank past 10 years of age.
• One or two smacks on the butt only.

For me, spanking is something that is administered either a) when the child has done something that could have resulted in them being physically maimed or killed or b) when they are extremely disrespectful or are in hysterics or c) if they are bullying, physically, one of their siblings. The pain of a spanking is preferable to the pain of a child who was hit by a car or who cut themselves or another child after grabbing a sharp object. And the physical shock of being spanked will bring a child back to earth after they are totally out of control. Sometimes.

Being a parent isn't easy and I'll never give up the ability to physically correct a child, but that shouldn't be your go-to punishment IMO. Usually I just ground my kids or take away phone/tablet/video games. That generally works.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

The discussion should be what is worse constantly screaming at your children or physical punishment.

Physical punishment(like a bop on the side of the head or even an ass whoopin) is quick and fleeting. If you explain what happened and why you did it , in my opinion, you will find you will not have to do it as much. A little bit of fear is healthy.

Constantly screaming creates long term trauma (in my opinion) and literally gets nothing done. Taking away things or telling them to go their room in isolation does nothing as well.

The alternative to physical violence isn't constant screaming.

What is going on today?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t.

This is totally meaningless. There are people from broken homes who turn out "fine". People with drug addicted parents who turn out "fine". That doesn't mean those issues are the reason they turned out fine.

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Spanking? Not a fan.

But my parents had a variety of other things at their disposal. Running was a common one. "You have to run from here to there in this much time or you do it again". Or up and down stairs in similar conditions. Pushups occasionally. It sucked for a while until you either got in shape or figured it out. Either way, punishments just got worse.

My dad loves hot sauce too. So depending on what we did, we got a hotter or hotter sauce. That sucked.

So those are technically physical punishments, but not the typical ones.

 

[Jindrael]

I got hit once during my childhood, my parents always relied on other punishments.

That one time was well deserved and followed a slew of other reminder and smaller punishments. Thinking back on it I had a clear objective leading up to it, I actively tried to push the boundaries of how far I could go.

I can't deny that it had a lasting effect because up to this day I still remember the day and place at which it happened while I definitely don't remember that much other stuffabout that time.

My father gave me a slap across the face, looked me straight in the eyes and in a calm voice told me "That is enough!", later that evening my parents talked to me about it.
I can tell that it hasn't effected my relation to my parents in the slightest, it has never happened after.

I guess as a conclusion, I don't think violence against children is acceptable but I can't in good conscience file what happened to me as violence out of violence sake. One could argue that my father just didn't know how to handle that situation and maybe you are right but the stark contrast to what I knew what would happen usually when I acted out taught me that this was the boundary. I knew what I did was absolutely not okay.

 

[Jzero]

I'm from Mexico so you know I got the shit beat out of me. I'm really not sure if it works to be honest, I turned out fine but a lot of people I know didn't.

 

[Stallion Dan]

No, child abuse is bad

Because people have managed to become functioning humans despite abuse isn't proof it works.

A spank for misbehaving isn't child abuse.

 

[The Futurist]

You now have the evidence before you. Will you change your mind?

I don't think that I could ever hit my child.

I'll leave that to my wife!

That is not a serious statement.

 

[adj_noun]

Didn't work on me. If anything, it was counter productive.

 

[Septimius]

Yes, physical punishment does work.

How does it work? By what metrics? We've posted tons of research that shows it doesn't work. Can you come up with a single research that says it does work?

I don't think that I could ever hit my child.

That's good, but I hope you understand that it's hard to separate whether someone turns out a way DESPITE of something, or BECAUSE of something, and that researchers are generally pretty good at discerning the differences. That's why anecdotal evidence on things like this doesn't prove anything, and why actual research on the subject should be valued higher than "what people normally do".

 

[Messofanego]

These studies didn't exists 30-40 years ago.

How could they or anyone else have known?

All this is change is from human advancement in the modern era.



Jesus christ. Some of you guys are so quick to respond that you even read the context of the thing you're responding to.

I was not talking about myself or hitting kids. The only thing I was pointing out is that there is a different in "social" sciences and things like fucking chemistry.

Stop bringing up the anti vaxxer bullshit. Those are not studies based on interpretation. Those are numbers and numbers are hard science.

What about the hard science on physical punishment by parents not working?

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Adults also often have to be restrained and/or sedated when they are a danger to themselves or others. Not sure where you are going with that comparison, and that's not really what is being discussed here. Not sure how that applies to the idea that, if, say a coworker or spouse talked back to you, it wouldn't be socially acceptable to smack them across the mouth.

There's a difference between using physical punishment to correct your kid's behavior as a parenting method and trying to protect people with mental health issues from themselves by restraining them. In your case a lot of shit already happened to them to get them to that point (I'd wager some of them were beaten by their parents as well). I also assume that there are a adults with mental health issues that act in a similar way so what you're talking about isn't necessarily restricted to children. Not really what this topic is about.

The point is, little kids don't have the same mental faculties or resources of an adult, much like those kids or adults in the ward. Trying to convince someone not to spank their kids because you wouldn't spank your spouse is a false equivalency that won't work. You're much closer when you argue that you shouldn't hit an animal when they act out, but a lot of people would probably be willing to smack a dog with a newspaper than smack their kid.

The point is,when trying to argue your side, stick with how it effects kids, not stretch the point to non-related actors.

 

[blackflag]

I got heavily physically punished as a kid. Many would consider it abuse.

I have a 22, 19, 10, and 7 year old and I've never physically punished any of them and they are fine good people. So I don't believe it works.

 

[sensui-tomo]

A spank for misbehaving isn't child abuse.

I spanked my wife across the face for misbehaving at a table, not abuse and I tell her what she did wrong too

/s

Some people here might not know this but spank and slap can mean the same thing.

 

[Chojin]

For brevity and a break: I wonder if making my kid lick my switch carts is an okay punishment

 

[Gutek]

How does it work? By what metrics? We've posted tons of research that shows it doesn't work. Can you come up with a single research that says it does work?

No. He’s basically an anti-vaxxer. He just likes hitting kids younger than 10 years old. The less they can fight back and/or contextualize the violence the better, apparently.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

I got spanked only a handful of times, max. 3x that I can actually remember, and oooh boy were they justified, looking back at my actions.

I respect the hell out of my parents, though.

 

[Omegasquash]

I don't think it sends a message, it's simply a form of deterrent that may or may not leave an impression. As such, I see it as ineffective.

I was spanked and slapped as a child. My parents saw it as a means to an end, and I don't have hard feelings toward them for that (for the times that I "earned" it, anyway). My mother has expressed regret for having done so.

We live in a time where we have access to learn about and explore other ways to discipline children. I'm taking a different path than my parents, and I enthusiastically do not recommend physical punishment for anyone else.

 

[Septimius]

For brevity and a break: I wonder if making my kid lick my switch carts is an okay punishment

Haha, that's brilliant. Have you tried licking them? Holy shit, it's terrible. Reminds me of these vines (sorry that it's looped five hundred times) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYZ278_RwVU

(but no, don't do it)

 

[tonysidaway]

When we swore as kids we would have to sit with a bar of soap in our mouth or if we really pissed my mom off she when we swore she would sit on top of us and squeeze liquid soap in our mouths.
...
As we mature with age we grew out of all the misbehaving and because my parents were actually parents and taught us right from wrong and were involved/interested in what we did, my sister and I grew up just fine and are better people than most.

I appreciate that you oppose corporal punishment, but that thing with the soap, just for swearing, you realise how twisted that is? If a child swearing is wrong, an adult doing these hideous things to a small child is so wrong it almost leaves me speechless. The words hideous and depraved would not be inappropriate.

It does sound as if your parents eventually learned right from wrong. I dunno, maybe you should accept some credit for teaching them.

 

[markofhavoc]

I was spanked twice in my life, and when it happened, I deserved it. As a father though, I would never spank my kid (also my wife would murder me)

 

[Dougieflesh]

I'll pop either of my daughters on the butt about as hard as I pop my girlfriend when she walks by me on the couch (she does it to me too ). That's the severity of the "strike". Nothing but an attention grabber, and results in no tears.

It's closer to a love tap than a "spanking/beating".

I think some people here are visualizing veins popping as you deliver the 10th strike of a rage induced beat down. (which does happen in many households sadly)

The belts/switches/open palm swings won't ever happen in my household. Boy they lose electronics a lot though, lol.

This is exactly what my parents did to me as what I constituted as a "spanking". The most consecutive taps on my butt I got was 3 after I forged my mothers name on a check when I was 8. I got spanked 4 times in my life between 4-9, and I never did any of those actions that got me spanked ever again. My parents would talk to me before as well as after the spanking, and they would also ground me.

 

[DBT85]

I was smacked as a child as was my brother. It stopped me doing things I shouldn't but it made my brother go in the opposite direction.

My dad as a kid got the cane at school and probably clip round the ear from his dad if he found out about it.

I've never hit anyone in my life, I'm not starting with my child.

She's 9 weeks old and that opinion will not change.

 

[Chojin]

Haha, that's brilliant. Have you tried licking them? Holy shit, it's terrible.

(but no, don't do it)

Yeah I have. But I like bitter things. And no I wouldn't really do that to my kid. Shes too awesome. Lets wait till shes 13 then she'll become a shit and can go live with Grandma in the Philippines. I get 13 years of awesome for now.

 

[Doc_Drop]

A spank for misbehaving isn't child abuse.

I mean, yes it is but you believe what you want to believe

 

[RDreamer]

It's been suggested before that on GAF parenting topics replies from parents and non parents should be self identified. A lot of non parents give idealistic advice they have not but into practice.

Not hitting your kid is idealistic?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The point is, little kids don't have the same mental faculties or resources of an adult, much like those kids or adults in the ward. Trying to convince someone not to spank their kids because you wouldn't spank your spouse is a false equivalency that won't work. You're much closer when you argue that you shouldn't hit an animal when they act out, but a lot of people would probably be willing to smack a dog with a newspaper than smack their kid.

The point is,when trying to argue your side, stick with how it effects kids, not stretch the point to non-related actors.

You have poorly supported your point because the example you described is something that happens to adults all the time. That's a mental health issue. Those kids and adults aren't being restrained for disciplinary reasons, they are being restrained to protect themselves and others. And the idea of physical punishment being okay for kids but not okay for adults is not a false equivalency, it's only seen that way by someone like you because we have been conditioned culturally that one is far less acceptable than the other. At their core, they are the same, which is the point.

 

[Just_myles]

The alternative to physical violence isn't constant screaming.

What is going on today?

Nothing. This is typically what I have seen with other parents. They may not physically punish their kdis but they will constantly scream at them .

Or the alternative "go to your room" in isolation is worse and by worse I mean they literally learn nothing.

The goal should be to articulate to your child what they did wrong and to provide negative reinforcement so that the behavior is not repeated.

There is no instruction manual on being a parent. You have to find your center. In my case, that would be the middle of what my parents taught me and what I believe now.

 

[True Savior]

I got hit more than a couple of times. Nothing major. I was a pain in the ass and it probably worked to reinforce the negativity of certain behaviors I had.

I probably wont be able to do it though. Seems too harsh. It was more my mom though so maybe ill tag team with a future partner 😁

 

[cromofo]

Every kid is different. Some kids learn the hard way, some don't.

 

[The Futurist]

What about the hard science on physical punishment by parents not working?

I mean, if you have a flask that you could pour those results into, or a machine that definitively and consistently shows measurements proving that this is the case, I would love to see those studies.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I mean, if you have a flask that you could pour those results into, or a machine that definitively and consistently shows measurements proving that this is the case, I would love to see those studies.

I give up.

 

[Messofanego]

A little bit of fear is healthy.

Could you say that if you were dealing with a partner/significant other?

 

[Chojin]

Not hitting your kid is idealistic?

Sure it is. I mean the kid is asking for it. How can you NOT smack the shit out of them?

 

[Gutek]

I mean, if you have a flask that you could pour those results into, or a machine that definitively and consistently shows measurements proving that this is the case, I would love to see those studies.

Wow - just wow.

 

[Septimius]

I mean, if you have a flask that you could pour those results into, or a machine that definitively and consistently shows measurements proving that this is the case, I would love to see those studies.

..That's what scientific studies are. What the fuck?

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/184/12/1373.short - could you read this and point out to me how this isn't by "real" metrics? How showing that hitting kids result in negative developmental health is somehow intangible?

 

[The Futurist]

I give up.

Again, this is not me doubting the validity of studies showing that hitting children does not work. This doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.

Just the distinction between hard and soft sciences because there is a distinction when you're talking about results.

I got frustrated because idiots in here tried to bring up that vaccine shit and correlate it to this which makes no fucking sense.

 

[Gutek]

..That's what scientific studies are. What the fuck?

What do you expect. He literally used “there are only two genders” people logic. “It’s not hard science”, my ass.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I mean, if you have a flask that you could pour those results into, or a machine that definitively and consistently shows measurements proving that this is the case, I would love to see those studies.

Did you just invent the computer?

 

[nekkid]

Depends on the child.

Ours are brought to tears when we occasionally REALLY tell them off verbally, so it’s completely unnecessary for us.

 

[N7 MRP Weasel]

Sure it is. I mean the kid is asking for it. How can you NOT smack the shit out of them?

Holy shit dude ahahaha take this seriously!

 

[____]

I got spanked. It was never to the level of "abuse" that some people go thru or imagine all spankings to be. My mom had levels. (raising 3 boys on her own)

When we got in trouble, of course she'd talk to us, but talking to us was literally in one ear and out the other. So telling not to do the same thing 50x and we still ignore it would evolve into:

• She'd "ground" us - Didn't work because we didn't care if we couldn't hang with friends -- we were 3 brothers so we'd hang with each other until we were ungrounded.
  
• She'd take away our Nintendo/Playstation - We'd just go over our friends houses to play.
  
• She'd "ban" us from watching TV - We'd just wait until she went to work or just watch it with the volume super low until we got caught and she'd scold us and we'd try again later.

We were little pains in the ass and felt her words were meaningless, so yeah, the spankings came at some point. They were really the only thing that made me be like "Oh shit, probably shouldn't do [insert stupid shit kids do here] again, or that belt and my ass are gonna become real familiar with each other!"

I never resented my mom for it and as an adult can appreciate them. Lord knows without them what I would've turned out like. But I can see why people growing up in different cultures think the way they do.

 

[Gutek]

Again, this is not me doubting the validity of studies showing that hitting children does not work. This doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.

Just the distinction between hard and soft sciences because there is a distinction when you're talking about results.

I got frustrated because idiots in here tried to bring up that vaccine shit and correlate it to this which makes no fucking sense.

Bad news, buddy. Looks like those spankings really did do damage to you.

 

[Gai Murakumo]

I plan to power bomb my children through a table whenever they cross me

This made me laugh more than it should.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Well, add me to the camp where I was beat by a belt on the butt or hands. My grandmother, who was raised in rural Haiti did not tolerate nonsense growing up. In all honesty, I really like reading these posts where it's labeled as child abuse. How do we plan on stopping it? Discipline by means of an object is ingrained in so many cultures so I just don't see it going away.

I'm not going to spank my children in the future though, I'll try reasoning.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

You have poorly supported your point because the example you described is something that happens to adults all the time. That's a mental health issue. Those kids and adults aren't being restrained for disciplinary reasons, they are being restrained to protect themselves and others. And the idea of physical punishment being okay for kids but not okay for adults is not a false equivalency, it's only seen that way by someone like you because we have been conditioned culturally that one is far less acceptable than the other. At their core, they are the same, which is the point.

Except, again, a lot of parents don't use spanking as a punishment in the same way, but to make a certain behavior stop. I actually don't see a lot of parents these days who have a whipping shed and a switch sitting on the mantle as a constant reminder of what will happen to them if they misbehave. I can guarantee you that most parents who spank do it completely reactionary to certain behavior. At the very least, you'll never convince people that smacking an adult is the same as smacking a kid. Hell, lots of people think adults DO deserve to be hit when stepping out of line (see punching Nazis).

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Didn't work on me.
I just knew that I shouldn't get caught.
Most of the time I didn't understand what I was doing wrong.
Suppose if I was told why it was wrong then maybe a belt or a slap wouldn't have been necessary.
Everytime it happened all I felt was resentment and became a little violent as a result.

I'm good now and still love my parents.
But those few times in my childhood sucked.

 

[Altairre]

Again, this is not me doubting the validity of studies showing that hitting children does not work. This doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.

Just the distinction between hard and soft sciences because there is a distinction when you're talking about results.

I got frustrated because idiots in here tried to bring up that vaccine shit and correlate it to this which makes no fucking sense.

It does make sense though. They are both examples that are overwhelmingly supported by scientific evidence yet people chose to not believe in that evidence despite the fact that they have LITERALLY FUCK ALL (except for maybe an anecdote or two) to support the opposite. Your distinction of hard and soft science is pretty fucking meaningless in this context.