Mine are like that too...they both genuinely want to be good / do good, and when they don't, and we let them know, they are visibly sad / dissapointed in themselves, but since they are 6 and 8, I snap them out of it with a body slam on the couch and some peoples elbows, and then they are laughing again.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Physical punishment for kids? Does it work?
- Thread starter The Futurist
- Start date
Mine are like that too...they both genuinely want to be good / do good, and when they don't, and we let them know, they are visibly sad / dissapointed in themselves, but since they are 6 and 8, I snap them out of it with a body slam on the couch and some peoples elbows, and then they are laughing again.
What's frustrating is that your layman ass decides what can "be put in real terms", and that upon your own definition of shit decide that research on this topic isn't "real". That's exactly what anti-vaxxers do. They stand by a proven falsified study, because it coincides with their belief, and refuse to take in contrary opinions. That's what you're doing. You cherrypick for things to conform with your confirmation bias.
Research proves that hitting your children is wrong. Again, can you read through this and show me how this somehow isn't valid science or how it doesn't empirically prove that hitting your child is bad? http://www.cmaj.ca/content/184/12/1373.short
It works for individual incidents. Last year, my stepdaughter was kicking her little sister. She was asked to stop. She repeated the behavior, worse than before. My wife spanked her. She stopped the behavior.
Over the long term, I don't know if it's effective. It works for me, in my own family. I agree with studies that corporal punishment can have negative effects when combined with other mitigating factors, like this one:
My relationship with my children is strong enough that it can survive the occasional spanking.
Sorry. I feel like my one out for least minimal abuse on my daughter is to punish her with sarcasms. Maybe she'll grow up to be a comedian. Or worse become square and literal. 50/50.
Best part is English isnt my wife's first language so she doesn't really have a sarcasm detector. Poor woman. Its my natural mode of speech. It has to be as I've worked customer service in one form or the other for 20th years.
Ffs, stupid shit has been ingrained into culture throughout time. It's about new generations taking it in themselves to be better, to respond to increased understanding of life.
Think of what has changed in society in the last 200 years...shit changes despite people trying to stop change
Messofanego
Banned
Are you trolling or actually serious? Good lord.
tonysidaway
Member
Can we stipulate that hitting people is wrong? That's a bare minimum of civil behaviour, surely. We don't need to hit people, and therefore we should not do so.
Children are people, especially vulnerable people. In an emergency you can restrain them until the danger has passed. That's not what we're talking about here. There is no false equivalence.
sensui-tomo
Member
nowadays it just seems like you can get rid of the internet and tablet/phone/etc and bam they'll be sorry they messed up in the first place.
You believe that at least. Doesn't make it true
Certainly don't disagree there.
Take their tablets/xbox/other games away from mine and they shape up really quick.
You've cited research that shows that children have fear when being struck. If your metric on raising your children is whether or not they comply, I'd say that's a pretty bad metric to put first, especially when the same sentence says that it often leads to negative effects.
When research shows that it very easily can give negative effects, and it shows no correlation with how often someone is hit, and the severity of the negative effect - that is, it's not only those that are spanked often that have negative effects - I don't get using an outdated and short-sighted form of getting a point across.
I can't argue that physical punishment doesn't help instill fear in a child, because of course it fucking does. The issue is that that's where the lack of confidence and insecurities stem from, too, so I don't think it's good to say "It's OK to hurt your child so long as it's not too much". Also, you can't judge beforehand what will have a negative effect in your children. Sometimes it's the violation of the physical and autonomous realm of your children that can make them insecure and drain them of confidence. Gambling on knowing how your children will react to you beating them seems a bad reason to do it, especially when it's only to instill fear, not to cause understanding.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
This thread comes just in time for Mindhunters on Netflix, especially with so many people clamoring for abusing their kids.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Violence tends to be a fun activity in our house too, haha. Throwing them into couches and tackling them etc.
sir_kevith
Member
If you want then to be obedient now and then hate or resent you for the rest of your life then hitting them is a good way to do that.
The Futurist
Member
The amount of armchair scientists in this thread is amazing.
Do you guys really not understand the difference between a scientific study that bases its results on directly measurable figures?
Versus one that is interpreting like asking a pool of people that were hit as children if there experience was positive or negative?
And again, I'm not questing or refuting the outcome of either. Both can be perfectly valid and AGAIN, i agree with a study that says hitting kids is bad.
Do you guys really not understand the difference between a scientific study that bases its results on directly measurable figures?
Versus one that is interpreting like asking a pool of people that were hit as children if there experience was positive or negative?
And again, I'm not questing or refuting the outcome of either. Both can be perfectly valid and AGAIN, i agree with a study that says hitting kids is bad.
fabricated backlash
Member
Oh I was hit as a kid, most of the time I deserved punishment and my parents grew up getting the shit beat out of them at home and by teachers/priests/employers so I really don't blame them.
That being said, when I turned 14 and my mother hit me I hit back, making it clear that I would no longer tolerate physical punishment.
That being said, when I turned 14 and my mother hit me I hit back, making it clear that I would no longer tolerate physical punishment.
I did that this summer when my son wouldn't listen to me about putting it down for a bit.
He had a thermonuclear meltdown. Screaming, kicking, throwing a fit, the whole nine yards. What would spanking him accomplish in that regards. All it would have done was made the problem worse.
What I ended up doing was just holding him, through the kicking and screaming. He eventually calmed down and we had a discussion about what happened. We didn't have another meltdown like that for the rest of the summer that he was here.
I'll tell you what. If my daughter who is growing up in a household with music from NoFX, Leftover Crack and the Dead Kennedys comes home one day with a shaved head, romper stompers with white laces and red suspenders heiling hitler and reciting skrewdriver lyrics I'll give her a sock on the jaw. I don't care if she's a toddler too. My grandfather didnt fight Nazis so his descendant can be one.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
I don't see people actively berating beating of children though.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
No. It's child abuse.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
Hitting kids is for loser parents that dont really want to deal with the problems
I get that kids are annoying and exhausting sometimes but do better
I get that kids are annoying and exhausting sometimes but do better
This thread always comes up each year. There's a difference between "beating" your child and spanking them. I was beat as a child, though my parents considered it spanking back then. It was terrible and I don't use it as a method to discipline my kids as I feel it's wrong.
I won't lie and say I've never smacked them on the hand before, but the very few times I've done this, it comes with a serious talk to explain what they were doing is wrong. This is completely different from taking a belt, shoe, switch, cord, etc. to them over them being bad and I always felt bad when I've done it which is why I refrain from doing so. Using physical punishment alone does nothing but cause fear and I don't feel it changes the behavior.
It took time, but I did come to realize I had a subconscious fear of my parents and would find myself programmed to cleaning or doing something to keep me occupied whenever they would visit. This was due to me getting an ass beating for not doing my chores or homework and my mental state retained that pattern from what they put me through. I've since moved out of that state of mind, but beatings can have a negative impact on a child for life.
I won't lie and say I've never smacked them on the hand before, but the very few times I've done this, it comes with a serious talk to explain what they were doing is wrong. This is completely different from taking a belt, shoe, switch, cord, etc. to them over them being bad and I always felt bad when I've done it which is why I refrain from doing so. Using physical punishment alone does nothing but cause fear and I don't feel it changes the behavior.
It took time, but I did come to realize I had a subconscious fear of my parents and would find myself programmed to cleaning or doing something to keep me occupied whenever they would visit. This was due to me getting an ass beating for not doing my chores or homework and my mental state retained that pattern from what they put me through. I've since moved out of that state of mind, but beatings can have a negative impact on a child for life.
tonysidaway
Member
Enforcement of the law tends to have the desired effect.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....jan/10/mother-smacking-child-assault-sentence
Nah. I was beat to shit for the slightest thing as a kid by my grandmother. All it did was make me have deep down resentment towards her. I currently raise my twin siblings. Never touched them once in anger. I always just talk it out and try to make them understand why what they did was wrong.
Just_myles
Member
I'm not sure what you are getting at. I am sensing a false equivalency with your comment. When I say that(a little bit of fear is good) I literally mean a child should worry about the consequences of their bad behavior.
Meaning:
If I do a bad thing my parents will punish me(with whatever punishment method you prefer).
It is an imperative that kids understand that.
0ptimusPayne
Member
I was kinda out of control as a kid, and no matter what my dad/ older sister tried to do it wasnt going to fix me. I had time outs, groundings, PlayStation taken away, everything..The only thing that set me straight was a spanking from my pops one good time. I literally never tried him again after that. I get it, the majority of the time shit doesnt work and can make things worse. For me, it worked. I think were in a different age compared to the 90s and below its not a good look to be whooping on your kids nowadays.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I come from a South American background, and my mother used slap me when i did something really bad. The other punishment was cold shower (in summer).
The fundamental principle is that it must be always just, if it's not, the trust will be breaked for ever. It must always be exceptional and the last option on the table.
I don't think it's reasonable to call a slap, "child abuse" or "beating".
The fundamental principle is that it must be always just, if it's not, the trust will be breaked for ever. It must always be exceptional and the last option on the table.
I don't think it's reasonable to call a slap, "child abuse" or "beating".
You go on to say that you subconsciously fear your parents, and you say you feel bad. You say it does nothing unless you talk to them.. Maybe just leave out the physical harm next time? If anything, being past the incident, talking about it with your children, then saying "you do get that I have to hit you now, right?" just sounds more fucked up than doing something in the heat of the moment.
I work in the national health service in the UK. There sure as shit people berating parents for physically abusing their children, there are child safety protocols in place to recognise and report this
Plenty of relationships "survive" abuse.
Why isn't your relationship strong enough that you don't need to spank?
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
See, stuff like this really hurts the anti-spanking side. It makes a lot of people look at you like those militant vegans we had another thread about. Most people who spank would not put themselves in that category and still dismiss it as over reactionary bullshit. Lots of people who were spanked have fine relationships with their families. 99.9999% of people spanked don't become serial killers.
For me, the only thing that worked was reading about the increased chances of anxiety in children who face corporal punishment. Even that might not work. Some people think it's healthy for a kid to have a little fear in them.
FallingEdge
Member
Having someone yell at you is worse than getting smacked? Are you for real?
Why do different standards apply to children and "other people"? Read your post again, but pretend it's about a spouse. "It must always be the last option on the table, but it's OK to do occasionally". That makes anyone shudder. What makes it more OK when it's your own children? Someone who's not yet developed and doesn't always know the boundaries of things?
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
As I said above I dont feel like I need or want to with our kids. But Im not exactly against it in the right scenario.
It must be measured and controlled. If you are hitting your child out of anger then thats wrong. A slap with an explanation is the only way to do it.
It must be measured and controlled. If you are hitting your child out of anger then thats wrong. A slap with an explanation is the only way to do it.
Threatening to report them to their parents that will smack them.
It's not imperative that kids learn they will get punished. It's imperative they learn there's consequences for their actions and in my opinion it's best to try and figure out how to make those consequences natural to what they've actually done.
Hitting a kid isn't instilling natural consequences for actions. It's instilling that "Dad is going to fucking hit me."
It really seems to me a lot of parents focus too much on literally just "curbing behavior" and not actually teaching life and social skills in their children. Learning YOU are going to hit them if they do bad doesn't actually go far in life because A) hitting people isn't a realistic solution to literally anything and B) it's also not really a consequence to almost anything they'll do out in society.
I used to get a good spanking for misbehaving. I think it made me a better behaved child, but definitely didn't for my brothers who were much more misbehaved than I was as a kid. Never really saw a problem with a whack on the bum, but I doubt I'll do it if I ever have kids.
I still laugh when I think about how my aunt broke a wooden spoon on my cousin's bum one time.
I still laugh when I think about how my aunt broke a wooden spoon on my cousin's bum one time.
tonysidaway
Member
If somebody you worked for gave you a slap intended to punish you for misconduct, would that be different? If so, in what way?
sensui-tomo
Member
Imagine seeing a father scream at his kid that they're a dumbfuck and a retard that wont amount to anything in life. Oh look here you go.
this isnt meant to disparage anyone, just to show that words and yelling can hurt emotionally.
Your poor mom.
I know its a grammatical error but truth be told I once considered when I was in my 20s I seriously considered self inflicted beatings to punish my children.
Lets shed some light on physical abuse. My wife got beat by her dad when she was a kid. Punishments and stuff. First two years of marriage when we would have arguments boiling into fights and she would constantly think I would strike her. Because what her father did. It would only enrage me more and I would physically hurt myself to show her I'd rather hurt myself than harm her physically.
One fist through the wall and a broken hand later I realized I was being abusive to her regardless. So no, physical punishment isnt right. Using fear to get what you want is abuse.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
It's not the same because a parent have authority over his child and a husband don't have authority over his spouse.
Parenting rely on authority, respect, love and caregiving, but it's not an egalitarian relationship. You're role is to educate your child. As a husband, i'm not above my wife, i don't have to educate her and anything of that sort.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Emotional abuse absolutely can be worse than light physical abuse. It's all bad, but yes, yelling at your kid too much can be just as devastating. This is part of the problem of being a parent. You often feel screwed no matter what you do.
It's a lazy way to get what you (the adult) want from a child using violence.
If I have kids, I won't discipline them with violence. I love my mother, but I will always remember her style of discipline. I think she regrets it too; especially after seeing how I shrunk away from her just because she raised her hand because I thought I was going to get hit.
If I have kids, I won't discipline them with violence. I love my mother, but I will always remember her style of discipline. I think she regrets it too; especially after seeing how I shrunk away from her just because she raised her hand because I thought I was going to get hit.
CoolestSpot
Banned
Emotional toture is what I find to be more effective.
Did you know that children that are scrutinized for what they're up to on a Saturday night, so the parents know they're not at a party or whatever actually turn out to be just better liars, and better at manipulating people? In the same way, a little bit of fear will just ensure that you don't run things that might be pushing some boundaries by your parents, so you'd lose the opportunities to actually follow up on your kid.
Also, this just goes to show that fear is a shitty tool compared to understanding and respect. If the only reason you don't trash other people's property is because the cops might find you, and not out of respect of other people's property, then you're not a good person. The same goes for kids. Fear removes understanding.
Of course there are times when you need immediate compliance from your child! If they are putting themselves or other in danger, that's one of those times, and I'll absolutely spank a child in that situation.
Actually, there are times when spanking instills understanding. I'll give you a perfect example- when you have a child who is physically bullying a smaller child. After the spanking, you can correlate how physical punishment by someone larger than them made them feel to the act of bullying.
For the rest, you are welcome to not spank your children. It still works for me and my family, and is perfectly legal where I live. I'll continue to do so as long as those two things hold true. Again, it's not something I do often, but my kids do know that the option is still there.
The problem is that it's illegal to assault other people. Somehow you say you're above that with your child. That's the issue. There are no position of authorities in the world that allows someone to use physical violence on someone. You don't stand above the law if you're the boss of someone, why do you feel you stand above the law when you're someone's parent?
Similar threads
- Locked