Imagine seeing a father scream at his daughter that she is a cunt and a whore every day of her life.. oh look emotional abuse through yelling by someone meant to protect and raise you...... Do i win the prize for showing you how that works?
sorry for terms used, but hey it shows how that works.
Of course there are times when you need immediate compliance from your child! If they are putting themselves or other in danger, that's one of those times, and I'll absolutely spank a child in that situation.
Actually, there are times when spanking instills understanding. I'll give you a perfect example- when you have a child who is physically bullying a smaller child. After the spanking, you can correlate how physical punishment by someone larger than them made them feel to the act of bullying.
For the rest, you are welcome to not spank your children. It still works for me and my family, and is perfectly legal where I live. I'll continue to do so as long as those two things hold true. Again, it's not something I do often, but my kids do know that the option is still there.
I agree with the bolded, but punishement != Physical punishment. My mother have been taking care of children ever since I was born ( so 30 years ago ), and I saw just like her how children changed.I personally don't think children are punished enough these days. All I see everywhere are entitled spoiled brats. Not just brown people because I think the culturally there is still a somewhat heavy hand when it comes to punishments.
Your poor mom.
I know its a grammatical error but truth be told I once considered when I was in my 20s I seriously considered self inflicted beatings to punish my children.
Lets shed some light on physical abuse. My wife got beat by her dad when she was a kid. Punishments and stuff. First two years of marriage when we would have arguments boiling into fights and she would constantly think I would strike her. Because what her father did. It would only enrage me more and I would physically hurt myself to show her I'd rather hurt myself than harm her physically.
One fist through the wall and a broken hand later I realized I was being abusive to her regardless. So no, physical punishment isnt right. Using fear to get what you want is abuse.
If somebody you worked for gave you a slap intended to punish you for misconduct, would that be different? If so, in what way?
So are you accusing me of calling my kids those things or did I even come close to giving the slightest hint that I do?
I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.
No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.
Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.
But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.
Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught
Actually, there are times when spanking instills understanding. I'll give you a perfect example- when you have a child who is physically bullying a smaller child. After the spanking, you can correlate how physical punishment by someone larger than them made them feel to the act of bullying.
See, stuff like this really hurts the anti-spanking side. It makes a lot of people look at you like those militant vegans we had another thread about. Most people who spank would not put themselves in that category and still dismiss it as over reactionary bullshit. Lots of people who were spanked have fine relationships with their families. 99.9999% of people spanked don't become serial killers.
For me, the only thing that worked was reading about the increased chances of anxiety in children who face corporal punishment. Even that might not work. Some people think it's healthy for a kid to have a little fear in them.
I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.
No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.
Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.
But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.
Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught
I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.
No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.
Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.
But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.
Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught
The problem is that it's illegal to assault other people. Somehow you say you're above that with your child. That's the issue. There are no position of authorities in the world that allows someone to use physical violence on someone. You don't stand above the law if you're the boss of someone, why do you feel you stand above the law when you're someone's parent?
Well, I'd say a little spank is fine unless it's leaving a bruise or lasting injury, then it's too much.
Also, you're straw-manning me. I never said anything about becoming a serial-killer or even if it makes your kids maladjusted. I'm merely talking about the relationship between child and parent. I grew up with a lot of kids who were beat all the way into their teen years and none of them have good relationships with their parents. They just avoid them in their adult life.
I have my Ph.D. in developmental psychology.
I teach classes on this subject.
No developmental psychologist I know would advocate ever hitting a child.
Physical punishment CAN work, if you are trying to scare your kids from doing something. Like running in the street.
But mostly it just teaches kids that when you get angry, hitting someone is an appropriate response.
Hitting also doesn't teach you NOT to do something. It teaches you to avoid getting caught
Here's the real problem when it comes to topics like this.
A lot of you guys are going absolutely fucking bananas taking everything to an extreme. Which tends to be the case here.
You go on to say that you subconsciously fear your parents, and you say you feel bad. You say it does nothing unless you talk to them.. Maybe just leave out the physical harm next time? If anything, being past the incident, talking about it with your children, then saying "you do get that I have to hit you now, right?" just sounds more fucked up than doing something in the heat of the moment.
It's not imperative that kids learn they will get punished. It's imperative they learn there's consequences for their actions and in my opinion it's best to try and figure out how to make those consequences natural to what they've actually done. .
Hitting a kid isn't instilling natural consequences for actions. It's instilling that "Dad is going to fucking hit me."
It really seems to me a lot of parents focus too much on literally just "curbing behavior" and not actually teaching life and social skills in their children. Learning YOU are going to hit them if they do bad doesn't actually go far in life because A) hitting people isn't a realistic solution to literally anything and B) it's also not really a consequence to almost anything they'll do out in society
Haha yes i corrected this.
I cannot speak for every case, i'm just saying that i don't consider a slap as an rare and extreme measure as beating or child abuse. Of course that if a child get beaten up, it would have negative impact on his future.
My boss is equal to me, he is not in charge of my education, his authority is limited to the tasks i'm payed to do. The only suitable punishment if i'm not doing my job is to fire me. Our relationship is like a trade.
If physical punishment doesn't make someone a lesser parent, then do you see it as a valid parenting method along with the other types?The most frustrating part about this thread is the amount of people calling parents losers and pathetic. A lot of people who have parents who used physical discipline as a tool are perfectly fine and have a loving and respectful relationship with their parents and understand the situation. Many do not see it as abuse.
I am not saying there aren't better ways but just because parents used physical discipline doesn't make them any less of a parent.
You said that a scientific study has shown that it doesn't work for the vast majority of cases. That is fair I will absolutely support that because it's the most current and what is accepted by the scientific community. That's how it should be and the whole world would be a better place if that's how we handled things. I agree.
Here's the simple distinction I was trying to make. It didn't have anything to do with hitting kids specifically. It doesn't have anything to do with autism because guess what? Huge case studies have been done and very large numbers show that vaccines don't cause autism. That is something directly measurable. It's a very small number out of a very large number. The point is it's clean measurement of hard numbers. Numbers of cases of diagnosed autism against the numbers of vaccinated children.
Now we are talking are physically punishing kids. What is your definition of hitting a child? How are we measuring that for a study? How often? With a weapon?
This is the problem.
You better fucking believe that if my mother was beating me to the point where it did real damage, I would hate and despise her today. It didn't cross the line for me. Is it anecdotal, of course it is. Is hitting kids in general a bad move?
If you deliberately hurt your children you failed as a parent.
If you deliberately hurt your children you failed as a parent.
Well, according to OP you know nothing because its not real science! Checkmate, you armchair scientist.
So you're admitting to hitting your kid. If disciplining him is not a problem, why do you resort to hitting his head?Btw sure, I go upside my sons head when he says something inappropriate or watches pewdeepie videos but, I explain why it's a problem.
I have the most awesome kid ever and honestly disciplining him is not really a problem.
Saying that you shouldn't hit children is extreme?
Here's the real problem when it comes to topics like this.
A lot of you guys are going absolutely fucking bananas taking everything to an extreme. Which tends to be the case here.
There are hundreds of other things to do. It's not even a last resort.
That's an argument of authority. It being legal doesn't mean it's good or that it works. There's 20 years of research on the subject that's been quoted numerous times in this thread that shows there are no positive developmental effects of spanking.
no not accusing you of anything, just showing you how screaming/yelling at children could cause some issues for a child and be worse than slapping a child. its called degradation.
hitting a child or screaming at one is bad.
That is literally what I said. Children have to learn consequences. I don't know what you are getting at there.
Well speaking from personal experience growing up with Marine as a father, sure, I knew that if I was caught doing X that my Dad would kick my ass(most times he did). So i'm not disagreeing there. But, I did learn that there is consequences for my actions and I have managed for the most part to stay out of trouble as a young adult and as a man in my mid 30s.
I disagree with you. I think there are too many affluent lazy parents who don't want to talk to their kids like they're people. By not negatively reinforcing bad behavior we have kids who end up going unchecked and you know what, that affects my child. I have seen children who have parents who are lax disciplinarians. Those kids are the bullies and trouble makers. My son's school recently had a huge ordeal with relation to that. A kid was bullying other kids. The bully come to find out has been doing this to other kids for a few years and the parents(even the school) knew about it and did nothing.
Btw sure, I go upside my sons head when he says something inappropriate or watches pewdeepie videos but, I explain why it's a problem.
I have the most awesome kid ever and honestly disciplining him is not really a problem.
The authority a parent has over its kids doesn't justify any kind of physical punishment, however 'light', in fact makes them worse because kids are defenseless against their parents in the privacy of their home.
The serial-killer comment was for the guy I quoted above you. Mind Hunters is a show about studying serial-killers.
Also, it's one thing to say don't beat your kids black and blue. Almost everyone who spanks their kids will agree with that these days. Most people aren't physically punished to that level anymore in most western countries.
Absolutely not, you are teaching them that violence solves problems.
What is anecdotal experience good for in an argument when speaking about others, though?Blanket statements like this are so reductive. Why are some of you so black/white with this topic? The hubris of dismissing everyone who tries to explain their view from personal experience with "yeah, but studies and research" is the most eye-roll inducing bullshit I've come across.
But yes, despite the fact I was sometimes slapped on the hand if I did something extremely bad makes my parents bad parents, sure. I don't think it's necessary to physically punish kids, and I wouldn't do it to my own, but I feel there's a difference between a spank and someone punching up their child for doing something wrong.
I'm not an ignoramus; I know exactly how it's works. I want to know how my comment got extrapolated to the point where you felt you needed give an example of daily verbal abuse as opposed to occasionally raising one's voice in frustration.
So you're admitting to hitting your kid. If disciplining him is not a problem, why do you resort to hitting his head?
Blanket statements like this are so reductive. Why are some of you so black/white with this topic? The hubris of dismissing everyone who tries to explain their view from personal experience with "yeah, but studies and research" is the most eye-roll inducing bullshit I've come across.
But yes, despite the fact I was sometimes slapped on the hand if I did something extremely bad makes my parents bad parents, sure. I don't think it's necessary to physically punish kids, and I wouldn't do it to my own, but I feel there's a difference between a spank and someone punching up their child for doing something wrong.
Yes. I might pop him upside the head. I'm not slapping the shit out of him or punching him. It appears to me that you implying that I am. I'm really not sure what you are getting at.
Yes. I might pop him upside the head. I'm not slapping the shit out of him or punching him. It appears to me that you implying that I am. I'm really not sure what you are getting at.
Well, that's exactly my problem... I'd say that anything that hurt is child abuse... and you don't need additional laws to forbid that.Define "real"
Well, that's something I believe should be talked more. I keeps hearing that physical punishment is bad, and I agree. I believe people start to understand it. But I fear that most people think that (even menial) words can't have long term consequences.Also, yes verbal and emotional abuse is also child abuse
I don't think what that has to do with what I said. I just said that the kind of physical punishment you're referring to is already covered by child abuse laws, I'd say, so I don't see what exactly the laws about child education are for, and I'm not fond of the fuzzy borders it has.False equivocation. Research shows that physical punishment only has the potential to be bad.
False equivocation. Research shows that physical punishment only has the potential to be bad.
Yeah, we really should advocate for hitting our children because it didn't negatively damage you.
What.