CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Hey, what do you know. When someone actually makes a coherent argument instead of resorting to insults, the other side is usually happy to listen.
Still waiting, by the way.
Hey, what do you know. When someone actually makes a coherent argument instead of resorting to insults, the other side is usually happy to listen.
Are you serious? There obviously is a specific context for them to be shown in such an invironment. Writing "Mein Kampf" isn't the same fucking thing as showing others parts of that shit for educational purposes.
Don't act like you want to educate yourself about a dystopia where feminism won while playing this game.
We know what the actual premise was. It's really really simple. And again, I didn't miss the part where you put misogyny in quotes when talking about that tweet like it wasn't blatantly exactly that.
I don't call you anything except thinking by now that you would not be sad if it still has that narrative.
This game has the worst defense force. It's so see-through.
It is a game made by someone who said some despicable shit and then backpedaled. Where is the real burden of truth there? On the person who conceptualized the game as a free, creative spirit or the person who "changed" it after the backlash from others?
A story premise that - despite the creator's insistence that it has changed - was never clarified or updated. Meanwhile and elsewhere, the creator still propagates the same views he had three years ago. Wouldn't you say that it's reasonable to doubt him?
I don't want people to have the wrong impression of what The Last Night is about. When I was talking about how feminism has an impact in the future the way I said it was really bad. For me I was toying about the idea of what social movements can lead to in 50 years. There are so many themes in The Last Night that I wanted to cover, if I'm going to paint a comprehensive view of the future.
And so about feminism, the thing is, I was thinking that some feminists say the last barrier between men and women is the fact they carry children. Pregnancy. And because it makes it harder to get hired for instance. When you're pregnant you can't party, you can't drink, you can't smoke, everything gets really complicated. I understand that.
And I was thinking maybe in this future we came up with artificial wombs. Where you are free from having to carry your kid. And so then you know, cool, you can continue to do what you want. You can work, you can continue to drink or smoke if you want. That's it! I don't think it's bad or good in any way. The only thing I'm trying to say is I'm trying to imagine what could happen if I push that into the future.
Only halfway through the video but I had to say two things:
1. This game looks unbelievably good.
2. This video is actually really well produced. Kudos, IGN
I didn't realize Picasso viewed Feminism as a genuine threat to the world nor is he alive now
"Such a disappointing turn-of-events. You cant separate creator from creation when the creators beliefs form the backbone and story of that creation."
You should learn to do that. Im libertarian, and it would be a sin to not read Cortazar or enjoy Picasso.
I try to go for a style of argument that relies on reason, facts and logic. Some people try to get more emotional in their responses which is fine too, as long as it doesn't get heated and turn into a shouting match.
In terms of the game and wanting to know how it turns out, I'll be keeping a close eye on its actual content to see if it turns out as bad as it was previously said to be, but even though, I won't be supporting it because even though people can change, the creator hasn't seemed to have changed at all.
It's no small wonder he's gone pretty much silent since the reveal of the game; he doesn't want to jeopardize his game's deal with Microsoft, and if true I'd likely see him resume his views after the game's launch and initial sales rake in.
Comparisons are not equally the same.And simply reading Mein Kampf doesn't immediately make you a Nazi either. Just like how being interested in this game doesn't make you a gamer gater. Or how watching Wonder Woman doesn't make you pro-IDF, or reading Brian Sanderson books doesn't make you an insane Mormon.
I didn't realize Picasso viewed Feminism as a genuine threat to the world nor is he alive now
Hahaha, I was about to say this exact conversation has happened before.
Vivian James...Vivian James...why would they name their mascot "Vivian James?" Aren't they this awful group focused on video ga-ohhh...Wait, he wanted to use THE Vivian James? Isn't she like the mascot of GG?
....wait why is the mascot a girl? I thought they would choose a guy cause of their stances. Or is it satire?
His claim of having a change of heart apparently happened after GG, but prior to the E3 hype, which would lend some credence to the idea that it was a genuine change, though I'm basing this timeline off the few hints in the interview. And his team/publisher strongly pushed back against it, so I would be surprised at this point of the game contained pro-GG stuff or anti-feminism stuff.
Comparisons are not equally the same.
And simply reading Mein Kampf doesn't immediately make you a Nazi either. Just like how being interested in this game doesn't make you a gamer gater. Or how watching Wonder Woman doesn't make you pro-IDF, or reading Brian Sanderson books doesn't make you an insane Mormon.
I'm a superman with a galaxy brain who is capable of interacting with art while remaining ideologically unscathed.
Too bad the story of WW isn't some blatant pro-IDF bullshit. So no, they aren't the same.Aren't they? Even ignoring the fucked up pro-imperialist, pro-interventionist messages in WW, the star not only is staunchly pro-IDF, but served in it. Supporting the movie supports her.
Tim Soret in 2014: this is a game set in a dystopia where feminism won.
Response: Concrete evidence. Fuck this game about misogyny and fuck anyone interested in this gamergate propaganda.
Tim Soret in 2017: That was a silly thing to say and the game isn't about that anymore
Response: Yeah but where's the evidence??
But I'm also a believer in change, in general. That people make big mistakes, that people can change beliefs, and that more than one chance is deserved in this age of social media shitstorms. The proof is in the pudding of course, but I remain optimistic about this game and optimistic that the dev is being honest with us about his current mindset.
I edited my post where I then wrote that reading "Mein Kampf" for educational purposes also isn't the same thing as reading it for entertainment.
You can read it for a lot of reasons, enjoyment is not one of them. Not only because of the contents because it's just shitty written in general. If someone claims he reads that thing for entartainment purposes because he can distance himself from all the ridiculous inhumane shit in there then I won't believe him. The book wasn't written for that.
Wow so capable. I wonder how you can enjoy a story that propagates misoyny with that galaxy brain of yours. Now I'm envious.
It was probably my most anticipated indie game after Rain World
That's typical neogaf. I tend to ignore the drama culture that seems to be so popular these days.
The game looks good.
His beliefs are not my own.
Because I buy the game does not mean I support his beliefs, regardless of what neogaf says, thinks, or believes. It means I like the game and support his work on the game.
There's a reason it's never a good idea to bring your personal life to the workplace.
I have read the book suggested by the mod at that time. Great book indeed. Still, I think that I wont filter authors depending if they support horrible ideas.
Game looks really fantastic.
Who gives a shit about everything else. I'm sold. This IGN video is fantastic as well.
I get if people personally don't want to give the guy money. Getting upset at the PREPOSTEROUS claim that it's possible to play and enjoy something that's not 100% ideologically pure is peak-GAF.
This is a little off topic, but I think it's pretty stupid to pretend like "enjoyability" or "entertainment" are somehow objective quantities that can be measured and used to judge if a work has value or not.
I've never read Mein Kampf so I can't comment on how much of a blast it is to read, but I don't see it as an impossibility that someone would read it and think it's ideologically moronic while also enjoying it. I mean, being able to keep the two separate is how most people manage to sit through literally 90% of movies and television.
I get if people personally don't want to give the guy money. Getting upset at the PREPOSTEROUS claim that it's possible to play and enjoy something that's not 100% ideologically pure is peak-GAF.
I get if people personally don't want to give the guy money. Getting upset at the PREPOSTEROUS claim that it's possible to play and enjoy something that's not 100% ideologically pure is peak-GAF.
I get if people personally don't want to give the guy money. Getting upset at the PREPOSTEROUS claim that it's possible to play and enjoy something that's not 100% ideologically pure is peak-GAF.
I expressed my opinion about this on off Topic, but to say It again
I have no problem to buy If the artist of the art is dead, in any media since the fucker Will not see my money. But If he's alive...
Scallywag!
I don't actually really remember a mod recommending a book back then. Anyways, different ideology, I'm just not interested in supporting him or his product.
Also, I'm sorry but I can't stop reading your posts in an elderly man's voice. I think it's your avatar and the content of some of your posts.
I get if people personally don't want to give the guy money. Getting upset at the PREPOSTEROUS claim that it's possible to play and enjoy something that's not 100% ideologically pure is peak-GAF.
Game looks amazing
You forgot this
Also Tim Soret in 2017: Likes tweets by Ian Miles Cheong, Mark Kern, and other Gamergaters
Response: Yes he's definitely lying, there's your concrete evidence
Kinda missed that part that completely negates your argument, huh
This is a little off topic, but I think it's pretty stupid to pretend like "enjoyability" or "entertainment" are somehow objective quantities that can be measured and used to judge if a work has value or not.
I've never read Mein Kampf so I can't comment on how much of a blast it is to read, but I don't see it as an impossibility that someone would read it and think it's ideologically moronic while also enjoying it. I mean, being able to keep the two separate is how most people manage to sit through literally 90% of movies and television.
Who gives a shit about everything else.
I agree, but even this seems like a pretty subjective thing, no? Hell, it might even make for a more interesting game if it's presenting ideas and themes I vehemently disagree with.
Aren't they? Even ignoring the fucked up pro-imperialist, pro-interventionist messages in WW, the star not only is staunchly pro-IDF, but served in it. Supporting the movie supports her.
No.You forgot this
Also Tim Soret in 2017: Likes tweets by Ian Miles Cheong, Mark Kern, and other Gamergaters
Response: Yes he's definitely lying, there's your concrete evidence
Kinda missed that part that completely negates your argument, huh
pretty sure we all got it after your first post. you're going to pirate the game. ok, congrats.
You get what you're saying right?
You're saying that because the game exists and presents you ideas and themes you disagree with (which likely are because they're trash ideas and themes) it might be more interesting.
That's like saying, I know this quiche is made with absolutely garbage cheese and moldy meat, but man it might be interesting!
Sure, it's interesting from a this food is completely inedible and would likely give you food poisoning view, but it's not even worth purchasing at all or even thinking about eating, is it?
It's a discussion forum, and one that is much more focused on social issues than most. People will discuss that.
Play what you want. Prepare to be called out on it if you choose to post here.
Again, if your galactic brain somehow manages to ignore that the entire premise of the game is to propagate misogyny and that the actual story has that premise then kudos to you. That story could be told like Blade Runner and I still would not be OK with it. I got something called morals.
I also edited my previous post to say that your WW comparison simply doesn't hold up.
Its not about alignment. Its support for a piece of work that upholds a morally repugnant view. If you wanna play because you think its pretty, just say so.I think that anyone feels the need to call someone out for simply being interested in trying something with a bad ideology is the problem.
First off, my Wonder Woman comparison holds up perfectly.
Secondly, if someone plays through the game, and walks away disagreeing with the creator's point, what's the harm?
My problem with most of the arguments in this thread is that people immediately assuming that anyone who plays the game is somehow consigning themselves to morally aligning with whatever message is in it, and I fundamentally disagree with that.