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The Last Night: IGN Article [Quack Quack Slurp Slurp]

Wamb0wneD

Member
Tim Soret in 2014: this is a game set in a dystopia where feminism won.

Response: Concrete evidence. Fuck this game about misogyny and fuck anyone interested in this gamergate propaganda.


Tim Soret in 2017: That was a silly thing to say and the game isn't about that anymore

Response: Yeah but where's the evidence??

We have seen what his intention for the game was, what the game would look like if he had his way. We haven't see jack shit of the game that he now claims it has become.

Why would you believe a piece of shit like him? Serious question. I don't get it.
 
If you disowned a story premise, the very least I expect as an "evidence" is for you to outline new story premise. He hasn't. That's all there is to it.

If the game looked ugly three years ago, then the creator released multiple statements about how the game is not ugly anymore now without showing any screenshot, would you be inclined to believe him?
This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?
 

tuxfool

Banned
He's not going into town on you. He's trying hard to act like the mighty know it all chum just because he was once well known for a gaming channel. What a sad person. If he really was passionate about it he would just shut up and buy the game without whining on Twitter.

You realise that isn't Moriarty?

Just some random idiot people keep quoting.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
What the fuck are you talking about the ignore function for? Stop fabricating bullshit.

After I reposted my answer to you three times that didn't get answered by you while happily responding to others I had to assume you put me on ignore. That's not fabricating, that's assuming, and I'm happy I was wrong.

This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?

Are we at that point where people show you the tweet again and you ask how that has any relevance? Remember you're talking about the original story premise here.
 
This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?

The story premise.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Three years ago he outlined a concrete story premise. This year he just said it changed without outlining any new concrete story premise. Surely you could see the difference?
 
The guy sounds like a goon, but I think anyone who is unable to separate art from artist is doing themselves a humongous disservice. Game looks interesting so I'll give it a shot, even if the premise behind it is The Federalist-tier shit.
 

Stoop Man

Member
The "line" is drawn explicitly at supporting ideologies that will cause negative impactful futures for those involved.

Your arguments of "throwing out books" or "avoiding businesses" are just bait to try to get me to say "No" to any of them so you can justify them.

If you knew a book was misogynist by nature, you would (hopefully) avoid it because it has terrible things in it that you don't want to support. If this is an old book, likely no proceeds are going to he person who wrote it (as they might be dead.)

(Snip)

I'm not baiting you. Okay, maybe a little. I like NeoGAF because of it's inclusiveness but there's a small group that pops up in these discussions who are... difficult.

I'm just gonna say I agree with everything you said in your post. I'm just personally curious to see how this game turns out, even if the more I learn about it the worse its prospects seem. :/
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
The story premise.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Three years ago he outlined a concrete story premise. This year he just said it changed without outlining any new concrete story premise. Surely you could see the difference?

How are you even allowed to still post

This level of intellectual dishonesty is astounding

He's being doshonest to the max. It's a sight to behold really.
 
This is dishonest argumentation at its finest.
Not really. How are your comprehension skills?

If I'm willing to believe him about what his game is about in 2014. I'm also willing to believe him in 2017 when he says multiple times that it's no longer about that.

If it comes out and he was really just trying to hoodwink people for some reason then more fool me.
 
The guy sounds like a goon, but I think anyone who is unable to separate art from artist is doing themselves a humongous disservice. Game looks interesting so I'll give it a shot, even if the premise behind it is The Federalist-tier shit.

I mean, you yourself said that the premise is shit. The premise is part of the art, and not the artist, no?
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?
The hell? This tweet doesn't exist now?


KmpDjSb.png
 

Speely

Banned
This game has the worst defense force. It's so see-through.

It is a game made by someone who said some despicable shit and then backpedaled. Where is the real burden of truth there? On the person who conceptualized the game as a free, creative spirit or the person who "changed" it after the backlash from others?
 

Orayn

Member
The guy sounds like a goon, but I think anyone who is unable to separate art from artist is doing themselves a humongous disservice. Game looks interesting so I'll give it a shot, even if the premise behind it is The Federalist-tier shit.

I dunno, if the artist sucks and a major aspect of the art sucks, I'm kind of running out of things to separate and enjoy. It's especially true for new art where I can't really access it without paying the guy.
 
The story premise.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Three years ago he outlined a concrete story premise. This year he just said it changed without outlining any new concrete story premise. Surely you could see the difference?
He said it was about one thing. Now he says 3 years on it's not about that any more.

I don't need him to tell me what it is now about for me to believe it's changed.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
The guy sounds like a goon, but I think anyone who is unable to separate art from artist is doing themselves a humongous disservice. Game looks interesting so I'll give it a shot, even if the premise behind it is The Federalist-tier shit.

If the art itself is influenced by those despicible views, if the story premise itself is misogynistic, how am I doing myself a disservice in not wanting to play that trash?
 
They literally had to make up a girl that would represent their beliefs because holy shit why would any woman do that
Well it's probably the closest some of them will ever get to interacting with a girl so they got to think of something! It's so lame. No woman would want to do that.

Even though she isn't real I feel sorry for Vivian. She has an interesting design to me but was created for the sole purpose of lifting up the ego of these people.
You realise that isn't Moriarty?

Just some random idiot people keep quoting.
...I'm the biggest idiot in this thread. I knew there was something different with the avatar pic and the way it was all written! I'm really sorry! I goofed up big time...
 
I mean, you yourself said that the premise is shit. The premise is part of the art, and not the artist, no?

Sure, but I guess I'm in a privileged position where strongly disagreeing with one aspect of a work isn't enough to turn me off.

If the art itself is influenced by those despicible views, if the story premise itself is misogynistic, how am I doing myself a disservice in not wanting to play that trash?

Because something being morally diametric to your personal beliefs doesn't suddenly suck all the artistic merit out of it.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
He said it was about one thing. Now he says 3 years on it's not about that any more.

I don't need him to tell me what it is now about for me to believe it's changed.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Yeah, because the guy is such a straight up person. Really likeable. I automatically believe what comes out of that persons mouth. Why would I question it? I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Oh, also I act like that tweet is about "misogyny" in quotes, because I insinuate it's not really about that.
 

Varth

Member
HP Lovecraft was a racist fuckwit. Still one of my favourite fantasy authors ever. Bioshock series builds on ideas I could never agree on. Still one of my favourite game worlds. So unless the whole thing turns out to be really gross I could give it a chance. Don't think this will make me change my stance on rights, respect and inclusivity,
 

Speely

Banned
He said it was about one thing. Now he says 3 years on it's not about that any more.

I don't need him to tell me what it is now about for me to believe it's changed.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

Becuse he started developing and continued to create the game about that "thing." It was his original inspiration. IT DROVE HIM ENOUGH TO REFERENCE GAMERGATE. It was (is) literally a foundational principle. Dude you are either being intentionally dense or intentionally sympathetic to his views.
 
Yeah, because the guy is such a straight up person. Really likeable. I automatically believe what comes out of that persons mouth. Why would I question it? I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Oh, also I act like that tweet is about "misogyny" in quotes, because I insinuate it's not really about that.
This is really really simple.

Neither of us know what the game is about.

You're assuming he's lying when he says the game has changed. I'm willing to take him at face value.

In the eyes of some that makes me ignorant, naive, an idiot, intellectually dishonest a misogynist and even a piece of shit. I'm just happy to wait and see.
 

Ashodin

Member
I'm not baiting you. Okay, maybe a little. I like NeoGAF because of it's inclusiveness but there's a small group that pops up in these discussions who are... difficult.

I'm just gonna say I agree with everything you said in your post. I'm just personally curious to see how this game turns out, even if the more I learn about it the worse its prospects seem. :/

I try to go for a style of argument that relies on reason, facts and logic. Some people try to get more emotional in their responses which is fine too, as long as it doesn't get heated and turn into a shouting match.

In terms of the game and wanting to know how it turns out, I'll be keeping a close eye on its actual content to see if it turns out as bad as it was previously said to be, but even though, I won't be supporting it because even though people can change, the creator hasn't seemed to have changed at all.

It's no small wonder he's gone pretty much silent since the reveal of the game; he doesn't want to jeopardize his game's deal with Microsoft, and if true I'd likely see him resume his views after the game's launch and initial sales rake in.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Sure, but I guess I'm in a privileged position where strongly disagreeing with one aspect of a work isn't enough to turn me off.



Because something being morally diametric to your personal beliefs doesn't suddenly suck all the artistic merit out of it.

It does if it's not just handling the subject of misogyny but actively rooting for it. That's a big ass difference and I find people who can enjoy something liek that to be apathetic at best.
 

Tracygill

Member
The game is visuałly appealing. Too bad because the visuals are the equivalent of a Nazi uniform.

Oh well, there's games like cyberpunk 2077 and Megasphere that don't have people that hate women making them.
 
It does if it's not just handling the subject of misogyny but actively rooting for it. That's a big ass difference and I find people who can enjoy something liek that to be apathetic at best.

How do you feel about The Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will being taught in most introductory film studies classes?
 

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey

Yes it does. And so do multiple interviews where he's said the game has changed in the past 3 years and isn't about that any more.

This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?

This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?

This is silly. What "evidence" is there for his comments about what the story was originally?

Time is a flat circle
 

Alucrid

Banned
The guy sounds like a goon, but I think anyone who is unable to separate art from artist is doing themselves a humongous disservice. Game looks interesting so I'll give it a shot, even if the premise behind it is The Federalist-tier shit.

i think i'll make it out a ok. thanks for your concern. i haven't even finished a zelda game and i've been fine so far.
 
HP Lovecraft was a racist fuckwit. Still one of my favourite fantasy authors ever. Bioshock series builds on ideas I could never agree on. Still one of my favourite game worlds. So unless the whole thing turns out to be really gross I could give it a chance. Don't think this will make me change my stance on rights, respect and inclusivity,

HP Lovecraft is public domain. Easy to read and critique at arm's length and take the good with the bad when you aren't monetarily supporting a bigot.

As for BioShock, I'm not sure what you mean. The games critique just about every ideology they present, and invites critique in its own content. I'm not sure it stands for anything in particular.

This is a very different situation. It's not about it "converting you" or something. It's about materially supporting a product of terrible ideologies.
 
Becuse he started developing and continued to create the game about that "thing." It was his original inspiration. IT DROVE HIM ENOUGH TO REFERENCE GAMERGATE. It was (is) literally a foundational principle. Dude you are either being intentionally dense or intentionally sympathetic to his views.
Now this is a reasonable point of view however I'm neither dense nor sympathetic to gamergate rubbish.

But I do understand why you would be sceptical that he's changed the game.
 
That's a pretty cool video detailing just how much work goes into a 75 second E3 trailer. The game is incredibly gorgeous and I really hope it comes out in early 2018. Can't wait to play it.
 

borges

Banned
"Such a disappointing turn-of-events. You can’t separate creator from creation when the creator’s beliefs form the backbone and story of that creation."

You should learn to do that. Im libertarian, and it would be a sin to not read Cortazar or enjoy Picasso.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
This is really really simple.

Neither of us know what the game is about.

You're assuming he's lying when he says the game has changed. I'm willing to take him at face value.

In the eyes of some that makes me ignorant, naive, an idiot, intellectually dishonest a misogynist and even a piece of shit. I'm just happy to wait and see.

We know what the actual premise was. It's really really simple. And again, I didn't miss the part where you put misogyny in quotes when talking about that tweet like it wasn't blatantly exactly that.
I don't call you anything except thinking by now that you would not be sad if it still has that narrative.

How do you feel about The Birth of a Nation and Triumph of the Will being taught in most introductory film studies classes?

Are you serious? There obviously is a specific context for them to be shown in such an environment. Writing "Mein Kampf" isn't the same fucking thing as showing others parts of that shit for educational purposes, nor is reading that stuff in a classroom the same as reading it for your own entertainment.
Don't act like you want to educate yourself about a dystopia where feminism won while playing this game.

"Such a disappointing turn-of-events. You can't separate creator from creation when the creator's beliefs form the backbone and story of that creation."

You should learn to do that. Im libertarian, and it would be a sin to not read Cortazar or enjoy Picasso.
Where are Picasso's beliefs the backbone of his creation? I never read Cortazar, but were his despiciable beliefs the backbone of his stories? That's the important part here.
 

Magwik

Banned
"Such a disappointing turn-of-events. You can’t separate creator from creation when the creator’s beliefs form the backbone and story of that creation."

You should learn to do that. Im libertarian, and it would be a sin to not read Cortazar or enjoy Picasso.
I didn't realize Picasso viewed Feminism as a genuine threat to the world nor is he alive now
 

Ashodin

Member
This is really really simple.

Neither of us know what the game is about.

You're assuming he's lying when he says the game has changed. I'm willing to take him at face value.

In the eyes of some that makes me ignorant, naive, an idiot, intellectually dishonest a misogynist and even a piece of shit. I'm just happy to wait and see.

I mean, of these things I wouldn't call you any of them, but I would call you having a lack of skepticism here. You're clearly not interested in believing that the creator and director of the game would try to put SOMETHING of his beliefs into it.

Basically, you're being too trusting. People that hold these beliefs like the creator are notoriously hard to change their minds about. It becomes akin to a paranoia to them.

A healthy amount of skepticism here and just common sense about the project is needed to show that these viewpoints aren't welcome.
 

Mass One

Member
I don't appreciate any video game or youtube content creator to think they warrant the separate the art from the artist. But that is obviously just me.

I'll live better not supporting, spreading, or normalizing any shitty behavior.

I saw the announcement at E3 thought it looked cool learned the background then moved on.
 
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