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[Mr.Phoenix]

It is common knowledge and it is easy to find Digital Foundry and other experts saying so. We can also see for ourselves that the consoles frequently choke on games which run at 60fps easily on modest PC CPUs.

I would have answered you in a way that at least explains or addresses what you are saying. But I have just decided not to indulge people when they are being ignorant. So by all means, carry on believing what you want. Makes no difference to me.

 

[Radical_3d]

I see where you're goin with this and I'll walk with ya.

People clutch to certain aspects, seeing numbers they dont like, but dont have the knowhow to understand these numbers or how they will effect them.

"Only 10% CPU increase. PS5 Pro BAD!!!" Ehhhh no!? PS5 fine with extra headroom.

Yes. Also PS5 is crazy expensive for a console. A fundamental shift from that is bordering enthusiast price. An effective 15TF (45% faster than current 10,2TF PS5) console is more than enough for what everyone wants: a fakey IA upscaled 4K 60fps on Final Fantasy Rebirth. And I'll pay good euros for that.

 

[shamoomoo]

The only time they made an article about 'Pro' consoles they said they were unlikely but if it was to happen it would likely include RT improvements and a focus on ML. Nowhere have they ever stated they think an enhanced console from either Xbox or Playstation is needed. As for the Xbox Series S, they have been far more critical of the memory shortcomings as time has gone by.

I'm pretty sure this is one of those supposed things that totally happened that pop up on this forum about DF and then when challenged for proof nobody can mysteriously provide it.

I didn't say the first highlighted part.

Also, until the price is revealed there isn't a downside to the Pro as it's stronger than the PS5 and Series consoles with regards to its GPU.

 

[Bojji]

ITT people think that CPU is not important in games. I love NeoGAF sometimes, Songaf in particular.

 

[rickybooby87]

If only there was some way to know what the PS5's CPU was capable of in a PC setting..... Oh, wait:

AMD 4700S Review: Defective PlayStation 5 Chips Resurrected

Break out the broken chips

www.tomshardware.com

The bottleneck in this regard, is that the fact that the board only has 4 lanes of PCIE Gen 2, but we're only going to be focusing on TimeSpy. So, from this chart, we already know that the CPU itself is indeed faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X in TimeSpy. As seen below:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X review

We recently reviewed the Ryzen 7 3700X & Ryzen 9 3900X processors from AMD. How about the six core parts eh? Well, let's check out the new Ryzen 5 3600X in this review....

www.guru3d.com

Now, while you're here, let's click into a couple of pages of this review of the 3600X and see what this 2080Ti is doing in terms of performance...

Can we please just move off the fact that the CPU is the limiting factor here? Yes, we all know there are better CPUs on the market, no one is disputing that. But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

Additionally, take some time to read the following to understand what actual CPU bottlenecks look like in the real world, with GPU disparity:

Cross-Gen Face-Off: Xbox Series S vs Xbox One X

The first year of the new console generation has been quite unlike any other - Xbox One and PlayStation 4 releases are …

www.eurogamer.net

 

[foamdino]

How many 30fps only games have launched for the XSX and PS5?

This is the key thing folks are missing (perhaps intentionally?) - Cerny will have raw telemetry from perf tools which show exactly where the bottlenecks are in PS5 games - people in this thread are suggesting that they know better than someone with the raw data in front of them. If the PS5 pro design team (which I'm assuming includes Mark Cerny) have chosen to invest in AI upscaling via this PSSR/PSSSR (which is it??) instead of spending $$/time integrating a more "powerful" set of cpu cores you have to ask why they made that decision - perhaps it's because they can see precisely what impact either choice will have and they opted for the most impactful of the set of technologies they could choose.

Or you have to think that despite having the raw data in front of them they deliberately chose a less performant set of technologies because they wanted to.... sabotage the PS5 pro? Lose Sony money? Be nice to the competition?

I mean use your brains - the design was locked in early enough to be manufactured now for release in a few months time, that means that decisions needed to be made 18 months ago - which zen cores were available, at what price, on what process, how would they be cooled? etc etc

This thread is full of people looking at discrete components and assembling a fantasy prototype out of a bunch of technology that won't be cost-effective to produce in multi-million quantities until mid next year (if that).

Keep this in mind for the inevitable meltdowns when the PS6 specs are leaked and it doesn't contain zen8 or whatever the latest/greatest cpu IP is.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

Yeah that is a pretty ridiculous claim. I really hope nobody truly believes that.

Not a huge expert in tech but it seems like the Pro will be a substantial upgrade over the systems we currently have. Compared to PC is a different story but the price there can be anything you want depending on what your requirements are. But I really don't compare consoles to PC since the market is a bit different.

 

[Elysium44]

Can we please just move off the fact that the CPU is the limiting factor here? Yes, we all know there are better CPUs on the market, no one is disputing that. But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

You've cherry picked some GPU limited benchmarks and used that as evidence there isn't a CPU bottleneck in CPU limited games?

Digital Foundry explained in the article that there will still be CPU limitations with the Pro in CPU limited scenarios. People understandably expected a Pro console to be markedly more powerful in the CPU department so it could turn 30fps games into 60fps ones, but instead the benefit - while welcome - will be relatively minor. I think that's going to be a hard sell to people.

 

[playsaves3]

I’m not saying there’s something wrong with the CPU. Just that not enough tech upgrades for me to warrant spending another $500-$600 on hardware for this generation.

These specs are pretty unacceptable if it’s 600 or more

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This is the key thing folks are missing (perhaps intentionally?) - Cerny will have raw telemetry from perf tools which show exactly where the bottlenecks are in PS5 games - people in this thread are suggesting that they know better than someone with the raw data in front of them. If the PS5 pro design team (which I'm assuming includes Mark Cerny) have chosen to invest in AI upscaling via this PSSR/PSSSR (which is it??) instead of spending $$/time integrating a more "powerful" set of cpu cores you have to ask why they made that decision - perhaps it's because they can see precisely what impact either choice will have and they opted for the most impactful of the set of technologies they could choose.

Or you have to think that despite having the raw data in front of them they deliberately chose a less performant set of technologies because they wanted to.... sabotage the PS5 pro? Lose Sony money? Be nice to the competition?

I mean use your brains - the design was locked in early enough to be manufactured now for release in a few months time, that means that decisions needed to be made 18 months ago - which zen cores were available, at what price, on what process, how would they be cooled? etc etc

This thread is full of people looking at discrete components and assembling a fantasy prototype out of a bunch of technology that won't be cost-effective to produce in multi-million quantities until mid next year (if that).

Keep this in mind for the inevitable meltdowns when the PS6 specs are leaked and it doesn't contain zen8 or whatever the latest/greatest cpu IP is.

PS5 - Cerny is a genius

PS5 Pro - Cerny is a dumb dumb

Once PS5 Pro starts upscaling games and we actually get to see it in action

Cerny =

 

[MisterXDTV]

These specs are pretty unacceptable if it’s 600 or more

Good to know, don't buy it then!

 

[playsaves3]

Man, if this doesn’t run GTAVI at 60fps this hardware upgrade will be a massive disappointment IMO. I know pro consoles last gen ran RDR2 with a rez boost @ 30fps but expectations are higher now. Especially if Sony expects people to drop $599+ on this thing.

The price thing is the key here why these specs are not good enough this isn’t like the 4 pro

 

[DaGwaphics]

The more I look into this it looks like the bulk of all the upgrades will be due to CU count increase and going for a wide GPU.

I can't wait to see this thing in action because my brain can't work out how we can actually see any performance increase in games(outside of frame generation) Only resolution and raytracing as surely the cpu is going to be eaten up even more handling the increased raytracing or PSSR?

This digital foundry video has been really good tbh imo as it really dives into why the minor upgrades vs the pa4 pro are kind of out of Sonys hands. I think the only thing that is maybe biting sony here is their initial decision with power management on the ps5. The more significant issue is pure science and physics. Moving from 7nm to 6 is nothing like going from 28 to 16 like ps4 pro and one x.

The image improvement in the 60fps modes should be quite noticeable, regardless of how PSSR holds up in comparison to DLSS. The 45% GPU will be a big boost to start with. Visual improvement in the 30fps modes probably won't be worth nearly as much to people outside of the tech channels with the 400% zoom, that'll be more of a high vs. ultra thing where most don't care about that difference.

Hopefully the frame gen tech they introduce is purely optional or they've done miracles with how that tech works. Input delay on PS isn't great to begin with, frame gen on a sub 60fps source doesn't sound great.

 

[rickybooby87]

You've cherry picked some GPU limited benchmarks and used that as evidence there isn't a CPU bottleneck in CPU limited games?

Digital Foundry explained in the article that there will still be CPU limitations with the Pro in CPU limited scenarios. People understandably expected a Pro console to be markedly more powerful in the CPU department so it could turn 30fps games into 60fps ones, but instead the benefit - while welcome - will be relatively minor. I think that's going to be a hard sell to people.

TimeSpy is cherry picked? Every game is CPU limited and bottlenecked?

How about, Ryzen 5 3600 in Hitman III?

From Ryzen 5 3600 to 5800X3D: The Big Upgrade

Going from user feedback, it sounds like many are planning a final AM4 upgrade and you may be most interested in going all out on the 5800X3D,...

www.techspot.com

 

[Minsc]

PS5 - Cerny is a genius

PS5 Pro - Cerny is a dumb dumb

Once PS5 Pro starts upscaling games and we actually get to see it in action

Cerny =

Yeah, I feel like you can argue numbers all day long, but at the end of the day, when all the reviewers are going off over how much better it all looks, and posting zoomed videos, well, sometimes there's more to it than numbers. We'll see.

It'll definitely be a hard sell if the PS5 Pro doesn't actually improve anything/much from the base PS5.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

series s suffers from low texture detail compared to series x
ps5 base and pro will have same texture detail setings

PS5 Pro could go Ultra where the base PS5 is High.

 

[Mr Moose]

It is common knowledge and it is easy to find Digital Foundry and other experts saying so. We can also see for ourselves that the consoles frequently choke on games which run at 60fps easily on modest PC CPUs.

So the recent 4070 Super video with the high end CPU was a CPU test as well.

 

[Radical_3d]

People understandably expected a Pro console to be markedly more powerful in the CPU department so it could turn 30fps games into 60fps ones, but instead the benefit - while welcome - will be relatively minor.

People will expect what marketing make them expect. You are deliberately putting expectations on a 150$? spec bump that aren't there. It's only going to sell to the 20% of the install base, anyways.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yeah, I feel like you can argue numbers all day long, but at the end of the day, when all the reviewers are going off over how much better it all looks, and posting zoomed videos, well, sometimes there's more to it than numbers. We'll see.

It'll definitely be a hard sell if the PS5 Pro doesn't actually improve anything/much from the base PS5.

I think the Pro is going to be a tough sell.

I think Alex put it well in the Df video something like Sony said 4k with the PS5 but now we really mean it with the Pro.

Its not going to be an upgrade for the vast majority of people and thats ok.

But I am getting 2 for sure, give me all the goodies even if it may be minor

 

[MisterXDTV]

But I really don't compare consoles to PC since the market is a bit different.

This should be the normal way of thinking, but we know how it's gonna turn out:

The minute PS5 Pro is out the comparison will be with $2000/$3000 dollars PCs

"See the CPU sucks, it's useless" "My 4080 is better"

Comparing it to the Xbox Series X would be embarassing for Microsoft....

 

[Bojji]

If only there was some way to know what the PS5's CPU was capable of in a PC setting..... Oh, wait:

AMD 4700S Review: Defective PlayStation 5 Chips Resurrected

Break out the broken chips

www.tomshardware.com

The bottleneck in this regard, is that the fact that the board only has 4 lanes of PCIE Gen 2, but we're only going to be focusing on TimeSpy. So, from this chart, we already know that the CPU itself is indeed faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X in TimeSpy. As seen below:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X review

We recently reviewed the Ryzen 7 3700X & Ryzen 9 3900X processors from AMD. How about the six core parts eh? Well, let's check out the new Ryzen 5 3600X in this review....

www.guru3d.com

Now, while you're here, let's click into a couple of pages of this review of the 3600X and see what this 2080Ti is doing in terms of performance...

Can we please just move off the fact that the CPU is the limiting factor here? Yes, we all know there are better CPUs on the market, no one is disputing that. But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

Additionally, take some time to read the following to understand what actual CPU bottlenecks look like in the real world, with GPU disparity:

Cross-Gen Face-Off: Xbox Series S vs Xbox One X

The first year of the new console generation has been quite unlike any other - Xbox One and PlayStation 4 releases are …

www.eurogamer.net

Games from 2015 and 2018 and in 1440p? CPU tests are done in 1080p to remove GPU from equation.

And Ryzen 3600/X is stronger than consoles cpus, PS5 and Xbox use heavily cut down versions of zen 2.

There are not many obviously CPU limited games on consoles but there are few and this number will obviously grow by the end of the generation.

This is how CPU limit looks like for people who don't get it, throwing better GPU on the problem won't help it (also shows how RT affects CPU demands):

 

[Del_X]

Open world games will still run at 30fps so this upgrade is pointless. I'll just upgrade CPU/MoBo/RAM.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

If only there was some way to know what the PS5's CPU was capable of in a PC setting..... Oh, wait:

AMD 4700S Review: Defective PlayStation 5 Chips Resurrected

Break out the broken chips

www.tomshardware.com

The bottleneck in this regard, is that the fact that the board only has 4 lanes of PCIE Gen 2, but we're only going to be focusing on TimeSpy. So, from this chart, we already know that the CPU itself is indeed faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X in TimeSpy. As seen below:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X review

We recently reviewed the Ryzen 7 3700X & Ryzen 9 3900X processors from AMD. How about the six core parts eh? Well, let's check out the new Ryzen 5 3600X in this review....

www.guru3d.com

Now, while you're here, let's click into a couple of pages of this review of the 3600X and see what this 2080Ti is doing in terms of performance...

Can we please just move off the fact that the CPU is the limiting factor here? Yes, we all know there are better CPUs on the market, no one is disputing that. But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

Additionally, take some time to read the following to understand what actual CPU bottlenecks look like in the real world, with GPU disparity:

Cross-Gen Face-Off: Xbox Series S vs Xbox One X

The first year of the new console generation has been quite unlike any other - Xbox One and PlayStation 4 releases are …

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Mr Moose]

Open world games will still run at 30fps so this upgrade is pointless. I'll just upgrade CPU/MoBo/RAM.

Which open world game is running at 30fps?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The leaked PlayStation 5 Pro specs have been verified and added to by the tech experts at Digital Foundry, who also deliver their prediction on how the unannounced console will run GTA 6.



This week, the PS5 Pro specs leak, also verified by IGN, revealed the power of the console Sony reportedly plans to release during the fourth quarter of 2024.

The PS5 Pro CPU is said to be identical to the standard PS5’s CPU but with a 'High CPU Frequency Mode', which amounts to a 10% increase to 3.85GHz. The GPU enables faster rendering and higher quality ray tracing powered by 33.5 teraflops. The standard PS5 offers 10.28 teraflops. However, a direct PS5 to PS5 Pro comparison would work out at around 10.28 vs 16 to 17 teraflops.

99 Details in the GTA 6 Trailer - Slideshow​

51 IMAGES

The release of the PS5 Pro is thought to be particularly enticing in the context of the 2025 release of GTA 6, which is set to boost the video game market beyond developer Rockstar Games and parent company Take-Two.

But according to Digital Foundry founder Rich Leadbetter, speaking in the latest episode of DF Direct, the PS5 Pro’s CPU means GTA 6 will probably run at 30fps, assuming GTA 6 runs at 30fps on the standard PS5. Given no GTA game has launched with a 60fps option, this one seems nailed on.

According to Leadbetter, if GTA 6 runs at 30fps on PS5, it'll run at 30fps on PS5 Pro barring some kind of programming miracle, because the CPU handles simulation, and the PS5 Pro’s CPU only increases performance by 10%. In the unlikely event GTA 6 has a 60fps mode on PS5, it’ll run at 60fps on PS5 Pro.

While the PS5 Pro’s CPU looks like a modest improvement, the PS5 Pro is much better than the PS5 at rendering, according to Digital Foundry. PS5 Pro, Digital Foundry predicts, is capable of upscaling 1080p older PS5 games to 4K via its upscaling/antialiasing solution PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling), if the developer chooses to support the tech with a patch.

Digital Foundry says PS5 Pro will retain the same 16GB of GDDR6 memory as the standard PS5, but has an extra 1.2GB of system RAM for developers.


The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview

10:32

Autoplay setting: On
The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

So the recent 4070 Super video with the high end CPU was a CPU test as well.

I see what you did there.

 

[Mr Moose]

The leaked PlayStation 5 Pro specs have been verified and added to by the tech experts at Digital Foundry, who also deliver their prediction on how the unannounced console will run GTA 6.



This week, the PS5 Pro specs leak, also verified by IGN, revealed the power of the console Sony reportedly plans to release during the fourth quarter of 2024.

The PS5 Pro CPU is said to be identical to the standard PS5’s CPU but with a 'High CPU Frequency Mode', which amounts to a 10% increase to 3.85GHz. The GPU enables faster rendering and higher quality ray tracing powered by 33.5 teraflops. The standard PS5 offers 10.28 teraflops. However, a direct PS5 to PS5 Pro comparison would work out at around 10.28 vs 16 to 17 teraflops.

99 Details in the GTA 6 Trailer - Slideshow​

51 IMAGES

The release of the PS5 Pro is thought to be particularly enticing in the context of the 2025 release of GTA 6, which is set to boost the video game market beyond developer Rockstar Games and parent company Take-Two.

But according to Digital Foundry founder Rich Leadbetter, speaking in the latest episode of DF Direct, the PS5 Pro’s CPU means GTA 6 will probably run at 30fps, assuming GTA 6 runs at 30fps on the standard PS5. Given no GTA game has launched with a 60fps option, this one seems nailed on.

According to Leadbetter, if GTA 6 runs at 30fps on PS5, it'll run at 30fps on PS5 Pro barring some kind of programming miracle, because the CPU handles simulation, and the PS5 Pro’s CPU only increases performance by 10%. In the unlikely event GTA 6 has a 60fps mode on PS5, it’ll run at 60fps on PS5 Pro.

While the PS5 Pro’s CPU looks like a modest improvement, the PS5 Pro is much better than the PS5 at rendering, according to Digital Foundry. PS5 Pro, Digital Foundry predicts, is capable of upscaling 1080p older PS5 games to 4K via its upscaling/antialiasing solution PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling), if the developer chooses to support the tech with a patch.

Digital Foundry says PS5 Pro will retain the same 16GB of GDDR6 memory as the standard PS5, but has an extra 1.2GB of system RAM for developers.


The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview

10:32

Autoplay setting: On
The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview


Last month, analysts signaled that Sony is “likely” to release the PS5 Pro later in 2024. Sony has form when it comes to releasing a Pro version of its consoles. The PS4 Pro, for example, launched in November 2016, three years after the PS4 came out. A PS5 Pro launch this November would come four years after the PS5 launched in November 2020.

Sony has revised its PS5 sales forecast for the current financial year, down from its lofty target of 25 million consoles sold to 21 million. This comes despite a year-on-year increase in PS5 sales for the holiday 2023 quarter, from 7.1 million sold to 8.2 million.

Elsewhere, Sony has said it will not release any major existing PlayStation franchise games before April 2025, ruling out big sequels in the God of War and Spider-Man franchises any time soon.

Last month, Sony announced a devastating wave of layoffs affecting over 900 staff at its gaming business. Sony's London studio is to close.

Digital Foundry says PS5 Pro will retain the same 16GB of GDDR6 memory as the standard PS5, but has an extra 1.2GB of system RAM for developers.

They did? I thought it was faster.

 

[yamaci17]

Games from 2015 and 2018 and in 1440p? CPU tests are done in 1080p to remove GPU from equation.



And Ryzen 3600/X is stronger than consoles cpus, PS5 and Xbox use heavily cut down versions of zen 2.

There are not many obviously CPU limited games on consoles but there are few and this number will obviously grow by the end of the generation.

This is how CPU limit looks like for people who don't get it, throwing better GPU on the problem won't help it (also shows how RT affects CPU demands):

another example 5:50

one more



22:47

 

[Radical_3d]

As a future buyer I'm actually more pissed off by the 45% increase plus IA nVidia-esque upgrade than the CPU stuff (I'm not playing Starfield even if it ran at 120fps). The "ohhh, we can't cram more in 6nm nodes" is not a valid argument when 3nm is a proven technology by the time this releases. Call me old fashioned but I preffer an old school brute force bump rather than wasting silicon in IA imagery that flickers.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They did? I thought it was faster.

It is faster, 18 gbps vs 14 gbps

That's why the memory bandwidth improved to 576 GB/s (compared to 448 GB/s)

The internet is full of bullshit

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Games from 2015 and 2018 and in 1440p? CPU tests are done in 1080p to remove GPU from equation.

And Ryzen 3600/X is stronger than consoles cpus, PS5 and Xbox use heavily cut down versions of zen 2.

There are not many obviously CPU limited games on consoles but there are few and this number will obviously grow by the end of the generation.

This is how CPU limit looks like for people who don't get it, throwing better GPU on the problem won't help it (also shows how RT affects CPU demands):

What you are forgetting here is the way consoles are designed. Its known that the PS5 is VERY efficient when it comes to instructions and processing due to the architecture of the system. You cant compare it to a PC solely based on Ghz and pipelines.

 

[Fake]

The leaked PlayStation 5 Pro specs have been verified and added to by the tech experts at Digital Foundry, who also deliver their prediction on how the unannounced console will run GTA 6.



This week, the PS5 Pro specs leak, also verified by IGN, revealed the power of the console Sony reportedly plans to release during the fourth quarter of 2024.

The PS5 Pro CPU is said to be identical to the standard PS5’s CPU but with a 'High CPU Frequency Mode', which amounts to a 10% increase to 3.85GHz. The GPU enables faster rendering and higher quality ray tracing powered by 33.5 teraflops. The standard PS5 offers 10.28 teraflops. However, a direct PS5 to PS5 Pro comparison would work out at around 10.28 vs 16 to 17 teraflops.

99 Details in the GTA 6 Trailer - Slideshow​

51 IMAGES

The release of the PS5 Pro is thought to be particularly enticing in the context of the 2025 release of GTA 6, which is set to boost the video game market beyond developer Rockstar Games and parent company Take-Two.

But according to Digital Foundry founder Rich Leadbetter, speaking in the latest episode of DF Direct, the PS5 Pro’s CPU means GTA 6 will probably run at 30fps, assuming GTA 6 runs at 30fps on the standard PS5. Given no GTA game has launched with a 60fps option, this one seems nailed on.

According to Leadbetter, if GTA 6 runs at 30fps on PS5, it'll run at 30fps on PS5 Pro barring some kind of programming miracle, because the CPU handles simulation, and the PS5 Pro’s CPU only increases performance by 10%. In the unlikely event GTA 6 has a 60fps mode on PS5, it’ll run at 60fps on PS5 Pro.

While the PS5 Pro’s CPU looks like a modest improvement, the PS5 Pro is much better than the PS5 at rendering, according to Digital Foundry. PS5 Pro, Digital Foundry predicts, is capable of upscaling 1080p older PS5 games to 4K via its upscaling/antialiasing solution PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling), if the developer chooses to support the tech with a patch.

Digital Foundry says PS5 Pro will retain the same 16GB of GDDR6 memory as the standard PS5, but has an extra 1.2GB of system RAM for developers.


The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview

10:32

Autoplay setting: On
The GTA 6 Game Engine Looks Insane - IGN's Grand Theft Auto 6 Performance Preview


Last month, analysts signaled that Sony is “likely” to release the PS5 Pro later in 2024. Sony has form when it comes to releasing a Pro version of its consoles. The PS4 Pro, for example, launched in November 2016, three years after the PS4 came out. A PS5 Pro launch this November would come four years after the PS5 launched in November 2020.

Sony has revised its PS5 sales forecast for the current financial year, down from its lofty target of 25 million consoles sold to 21 million. This comes despite a year-on-year increase in PS5 sales for the holiday 2023 quarter, from 7.1 million sold to 8.2 million.

Elsewhere, Sony has said it will not release any major existing PlayStation franchise games before April 2025, ruling out big sequels in the God of War and Spider-Man franchises any time soon.

Last month, Sony announced a devastating wave of layoffs affecting over 900 staff at its gaming business. Sony's London studio is to close.

Why posting this here?

No news info and bringing layoffs discussion to a specs thread?

C'mon dude, just put the link if someone really want to read and remove this garbage.
Is nothing more than a crtl+c crtl+v article from Digital Foundry. Nothing new to the conversation.

 

[Mr Moose]

It is faster, 18 gbps vs 14 gbps

That's why the memory bandwidth improved to 576 GB/s (compared to 448 GB/s)

The internet is full of bullshit

Oh the IGN guy is ex-Eurogamer, makes sense now.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Why posting this here?

No news info and bringing layoffs to specs thread?

C'mon dude, just leave the link and remove this garbage. Is nothing more than a crtl+c crtl+v article from Digital Foundry. Nothing new to the conversation.

Yeah was in the process of removing that part and I usually try to post the story for those who dont like to click links

My bad on that extra crap

 

[shamoomoo]

DF interviewed Cerny about the road to PS5 video and questioned him about TFs. At the time he explained (correctly) that the theoretical measurement is rubbish as it is literally measuring every gate in the GPU flipping state (back and forth from 0->1, 1->0) at every clock cycle - no game engine ever does that, it is essentially a completely pointless, measurement of how rapidly the system can waste energy.

DF heavily pushed the idea that XBox was a better architecture due to having more CUs == more TFs. Ignoring the fact that more CUs need to be fed data to actually get any work out of them. In this video, DF are stating that Cerny has walked back on his narrow/fast design to go with wide/slower in the Pro - not so subtly indicating that Series X is better designed for "future looking titles, and Sony have now come around to the same conclusion" - it's over simplifying a huge number of design considerations made in 2017-2018 and pushing that their preferred platform (XBox) is better.

DF used to be interesting, but these days it really is difficult to watch some of the obviously naked partisan coverage - I expect after the Pro launches (something DF think is not worth having at all), that the comparisons will be between a Pro and whatever top of the line nvidia ada card is available. Comparisons for the Pro should be between Pro and Series X (since apparently that is MS Pro console this gen).

> Mark Cerny counters. "I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. < https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

It's weird to think that DF crew thinks the Pro design is like the Series X,the clock difference between the base PS5 and the Pro is like 2% and AMD's current GPUs are about 2.6-2.7 GHz depending on the model that isn't manually overclocked. The Pro is still in the vein as the PS5 but wider.

 

[TheRedRiders]

People understandably expected a Pro console to be markedly more powerful in the CPU department

No one expected this.

 

[DaGwaphics]

If you put a graphics card that is 50%/60% better into any PC and don't upgrade the CPU I guarantee you will get much better frame rates. I've seen it and done it time and time again.

Why people think this would be different in the PS5 I'm not sure

It depends on how the old CPU you had was doing and how your old GPU performs. An old CPU can easily cap out a GPU that is too much for it at less than 40% utilization too. LOL

If you were CPU limited to 35fps, a 4090 isn't moving you much from there. Maybe an architectural or driver difference nets you a few extra frames, but that's about it (but this can go the other direction as well where a modern card has a heavier driver on an old system).

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Open world games will still run at 30fps so this upgrade is pointless. I'll just upgrade CPU/MoBo/RAM.

This is true. Even Hogwarts Legacy just stays above 60FPS on my rig.
Mind you I have all RT options on and on Ultra, but the difference with indoors and outdoors is immense.

In Hogwarts itself I get 90 - 110 fps with the same settings indoors.
Go outdoors and it just plummets to 60 - 70 fps.

But I can negate this by altering viewing distance, LOD, etc. Which is also possible on consoles if programmed correctly.

 

[dead monkey uk]

I have yet to get a PS5 and have decided to wait and get the Pro, looking forward to seeing what the GPU upgrade, AI and ML will achieve. One area I think could help out developers is the extra RAM available to them.

I can see the Pro coming in at £499. Has it been confirmed if the Pro is still coming with a 1TB drive?

 

[MasterCornholio]

This should be the normal way of thinking, but we know how it's gonna turn out:

The minute PS5 Pro is out the comparison will be with $2000/$3000 dollars PCs

"See the CPU sucks, it's useless" "My 4080 is better"

Comparing it to the Xbox Series X would be embarassing for Microsoft....

They should just compare it to their competitors system. And the same should happen when the Xbox Next comes out. Comparing a 600$ to a 3000$ PC is just dumb.

 

[Three]

ITT people think that CPU is not important in games. I love NeoGAF sometimes, Songaf in particular.

Look at the DF GPU vs PS5 threads where people argued that the CPU they used wasn't even important enough to mention.

 

[Radical_3d]

I have yet to get a PS5 and have decided to wait and get the Pro, looking forward to seeing what the GPU upgrade, AI and ML will achieve. One area I think could help out developers is the extra RAM available to them.

I can see the Pro coming in at £499. Has it been confirmed if the Pro is still coming with a 1TB drive?

The leak is about the devkit so no matter what you don't know what the final box will have. Being the 2024 Sony of 200€ for a DualSense with a screen I'd keep my expectations in check.

 

[rickybooby87]

Games from 2015 and 2018 and in 1440p? CPU tests are done in 1080p to remove GPU from equation.

(Removed image to cut down on the scrolling)

And Ryzen 3600/X is stronger than consoles cpus, PS5 and Xbox use heavily cut down versions of zen 2.

There are not many obviously CPU limited games on consoles but there are few and this number will obviously grow by the end of the generation.

This is how CPU limit looks like for people who don't get it, throwing better GPU on the problem won't help it (also shows how RT affects CPU demands):

3600X is stronger than console CPUs based on what? Did you gloss over the TimeSpy scores for the 4700S which is a defective PS5 APU?

And yes, dropping the resolution down to 1080P and 720P is great for finding the absolute maximum amount of frames a CPU can process when there is no GPU bottleneck.

Also, are we really comparing a 7700X/RTX4090 against the PS5 Pro's CPU/GPU setup to prove that it won't be capable of hitting 60FPS? Despite the Calisto Protocol having a 60FPS mode on current gen consoles?

Why are we forgetting that we already have 30fps,60fps and 120fps frame rate targets on current gen? Just because the XSX can't run Starfield at 60FPS doesn't mean another system cant.

 

[Gaiff]

For those who were around in 2015-16, was there so much negativity surrounding the specs of the PS4 Pro? Jesus Christ, so much whining everywhere.

 

[Allandor]

If only there was some way to know what the PS5's CPU was capable of in a PC setting..... Oh, wait:

AMD 4700S Review: Defective PlayStation 5 Chips Resurrected

Break out the broken chips

www.tomshardware.com

The bottleneck in this regard, is that the fact that the board only has 4 lanes of PCIE Gen 2, but we're only going to be focusing on TimeSpy. So, from this chart, we already know that the CPU itself is indeed faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X in TimeSpy. As seen below:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X review

We recently reviewed the Ryzen 7 3700X & Ryzen 9 3900X processors from AMD. How about the six core parts eh? Well, let's check out the new Ryzen 5 3600X in this review....

www.guru3d.com

Now, while you're here, let's click into a couple of pages of this review of the 3600X and see what this 2080Ti is doing in terms of performance...

Can we please just move off the fact that the CPU is the limiting factor here? Yes, we all know there are better CPUs on the market, no one is disputing that. But pigeonholing the PS5 Pro as "only 10% faster" due to using the same Zen2 CPU is downright trolling.

Additionally, take some time to read the following to understand what actual CPU bottlenecks look like in the real world, with GPU disparity:

Cross-Gen Face-Off: Xbox Series S vs Xbox One X

The first year of the new console generation has been quite unlike any other - Xbox One and PlayStation 4 releases are …

www.eurogamer.net

???
You just picked benches that Test all cores. That's why the 2700x seems so good but in reality it does not run as good as the 3600 but has two cores more. The PS5 CPU is a zen 2 mobile CPU (cache cut) and is therefore not faster than zen+. Also games don't have access to all the cores. In your benches you can see that is even slower than zen+.

Not going with a garter CPU really seems like a missed opportunity. But it won't be a deal breaker. But don't expect more fps from it as CPUs in that range often limit even slower GPUs in today's games.

 

[MarkMe2525]

DF interviewed Cerny about the road to PS5 video and questioned him about TFs. At the time he explained (correctly) that the theoretical measurement is rubbish as it is literally measuring every gate in the GPU flipping state (back and forth from 0->1, 1->0) at every clock cycle - no game engine ever does that, it is essentially a completely pointless, measurement of how rapidly the system can waste energy.

DF heavily pushed the idea that XBox was a better architecture due to having more CUs == more TFs. Ignoring the fact that more CUs need to be fed data to actually get any work out of them. In this video, DF are stating that Cerny has walked back on his narrow/fast design to go with wide/slower in the Pro - not so subtly indicating that Series X is better designed for "future looking titles, and Sony have now come around to the same conclusion" - it's over simplifying a huge number of design considerations made in 2017-2018 and pushing that their preferred platform (XBox) is better.

DF used to be interesting, but these days it really is difficult to watch some of the obviously naked partisan coverage - I expect after the Pro launches (something DF think is not worth having at all), that the comparisons will be between a Pro and whatever top of the line nvidia ada card is available. Comparisons for the Pro should be between Pro and Series X (since apparently that is MS Pro console this gen).

> Mark Cerny counters. "I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. < https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

DF held a different outlook than Cerny. Justified or not, it never was "Xbox is better because it has more TF". This partisan issue you refer to is just as likely a case of confirmation bias on your part. I find them mostly objective, overall.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Lets put this to rest shall we?

Ps5 processor is roughly an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Ps5 GPU is roughly an AMD Radeon RX 6800

Let's throw these bastards in a Bottleneck calculator shall we?

1440P (assuming upscaling from this to 4K):
0% on GPU heavy tasks

Native 4K (which will never happen as we all know)
5,5% Which is negligible So when the GPU needs help, the CPU can still catch up with the gpu if needed.

Add the fact that the PS5 is way more effective in using its resources than a pc (which mostly negates the fact that its a toned down desktop cpu or even nudging towards mobile) and we can safely say we won't see any bottlenecking when upscaling to 4K from a lower internal resolution, as is the way consoles work.

Will future games possibly bottleneck the CPU? Sure! But thats also the case with PC.
Only difference is console owners are stuck with it.

Depending on what the Pro will cost, it could be a nice step up from the og PS5.

Yet people expect performance figures which go through the roof. Want that? Sit this Gen out and fucking wait.

 

[Radical_3d]

For those who were around in 2015-16, was there so much negativity surrounding the specs of the PS4 Pro? Jesus Christ, so much whining everywhere.

With the Pro. With the PS4. With the PS3. With the One. With the 360. With the Vita. With the Switch...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeah its quite a lot of nonsense, a good indication of that is BF2042 as on my Zen 3 5900X all cores are loaded up and it pushes quite high temp in 128 player matches, yet the PS5 can handle that same player base just as well. I really don't have any worries about Zen 2 at all especially with good optimisation. remember the ps4 pro could not even handle 64 player battles without significant frame drops on BF4 and BF5

Their flaw is mistaking PC performance for console performance

 

[ManaByte]