Speedymanic
Banned
WHY, Hayashi? WHY????
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Ninja Gaiden 3 Details from TGS
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WHY, Hayashi? WHY????
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
_dementia said:
Oh shit. I forgot to do my write up. Ill do it now, sorry.
The nippo, and the function it serves, Is one of the worse things in the game.....even worse than SOB. Ill explain in a bit.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Yo Gotti said:
you cant. Give me half and hour to finish my write up but the short version is this immediately happens at a certain point in the demo when you cast your nippo. You cant progress from that area unless you cast it.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
The more I hear about this game, the more it sucks and the better makes look DMC in comparisson.
At this rate DMC will be a work of art compared to NGIII.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Ninja gaiden 3 demo impressions
I got to spend a lot of time with NG3 at the eurogamer expo yesterday and I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game will have to offer, based on this build. Im sure some things will change others I think will stay the same. Here Is a breakdown of my impressions.
Before I start, this is going to be a very long post so ill give a short version for people who dont want to read much.
Combatwise, If you are casual player, and have only really been interested in NG because its a badass ninja that kills things you shouldnt really have a reason for concern. While NG3 is definitely easier than previous entries, there is enough familiar things in the game to keep you happy.
People who are serious about the series and have beat the previous entries on anything higher than the basic difficulties there are a lot more causes for concern.
Movement.
Ryu still can move in the same way that he always has, he is fast and has the majority of his old traversal mechanics, even for some strange reason, the flying bird flip. The main addition as you may know by now is the slide. It is performed in the exact same way the dodge/ roll was performed in the previous entries (left trigger/L2 and direction) It can stun an enemy and can be cancelled into a jump so the dash, Jump, dash or roll,jump, roll can still be done. The windmill slash is also there (when ryu gets up from a roll and slashes) but the timing is iffy and doesnt always work.
You can still wall run to certain extent but again, the demo doesnt really have many areas to test this on and it seems to have different properties. It doesnt seem you can Flying stab from it.
Wind path (stepping on enemies head ) and wind run (x+y) are still present and are mostly unchanged.
Combos
Ignoring the SOB for a moment, The demo had the same amount of combos available as a level 2 dragon sword Moves like blade of nirriti ( x, y, x,x,x,x ) and Fang of the Wolf (x,x, y,y) were present and counted for
As well as the isunza drop. (x,y, x,x,x y) The timing felt a lot more lose than in previous entries , the margin for error seem to be increased dramatically. Outside of steel on bone, the combos seemed exactly the same if maybe a bit easier to perform.
Flying swallow/suplex/stab
The flying swallow is still here but it has now been changed to s cinemticatic stab/throw on connection. It seems to have lost a significant portion of its range and the multiple flying swallows are gone, at least for this stage of the game. In the rare times the grunts put up their guard, it can be blocked. The tool however is still there and can still be used for spacing and working around any errant camera problems.
It also can be cancelled into in all the way of the previous games (after a wind run, wind path, jump etc)
SOB/OT/UT
Ok, down to the meaty stuff. The steel on bone is a cinematic attack that has been the selling point of hayashis new direction. It occurs randomly, midcombo and there doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason to it apart from possibly it only engages once an enemy gets to a certain point in health. The good news is it can be avoided as much as possible by using air moves like blade of nirriti, flying swallow and a new combo that seems to be performed by jumping at the enemy, (x, y,x ,y,y) or something to that effect. Ryu basically attacks the enemy in the similar way to how the Black spider ninjas used to rush you in NG black/sigma , spinning in the air like a helicopter blade. It is topped off with a double flying swallow that look like the Annihilating Gleam UT from NG2 (360+Y after max charge)
You may even be able to launch enemies and simply shrunken cancel them too, but Im not that good to try anything like that.
The worst thing about steel on bone is it doesnt kill enemies on the higher difficulties, they can still stumble around and while none attacked me in the demo after a SOB, its possible. You still need to finish them off.
Different combos seem to have a different steel on bone and it doesnt seem enemy specific at all.
One thing to note about the button prompt. Most of the time, it doesnt matter what button you press during a SOB, both attack buttons will make the animation go through. The only time it matter is if the enemy resists it, Which is not at all often.
OT:
Yes, believe it or not, OTs are still in this game. Once you have SOBed aenemy or have Izuna dropped one, you can finish them off using a OT. They work the same as in NG2 and there is little cosmetic change really except the obvious decapitation ones are missing.
UT:
Once you have killed about 2 or more enemies by UT or SOB, your arm glows red and you can perform a UT. It is a teleport move where ryu takes out 3 enemies. At times it seemed like it take out the enemies with the most health/untouched/most dangerous at others it seemed to be any 3 random grunts. A thing to note here is you cannot charge it, If you hold down the Y button, Ryu will do the old UT animation but nothing will happen. On landings still work, but like the isuna drop and almost everything else, the timing seems a lot easier. To be honest, its abit pointless to do an onlanding without stacked essence anyway.
Enemies:
The enemies in NG3 suck. I mean really fucking suck. The A.I is a joke even on hard. They rarely block (even the special ops that have fucking riot shields) They do however share some of the moves of the combat Ninjas from NGB, they have grab that they almost never use and a stab that does extra damage. But they are basically cannon fodder.
At this point id like to ask a question was was the single most annoying enemy in NG2? The one that made people give up on the game halfway through even on normal?(NB: IS ninjas come late in the game on normal)
Yes you guess it, the rocket motherfuckers are back. The single guys are easy as pie to deal with but somehow Hayashi has found the single cheapest thing in NG2 and made it worse. The Multiple rocket Ninjas (well these guys are far from ninjas but you know what I mean) are back. And the rockets are FASTER. Their inclusion alone should signal to NG players that the harder difficulties wont be balanced and fair, just filled with cheap stuff. They arent really a problem in the demo though because they spawn one at a time occasionally but im not looking forward to fighting multiples of them at once.
Nippo:
Oh fucking hell, the thing by far that was my biggest gripe with the game. Nippo has been changed dramatically in this game. It is now a move that you only can use once at a time and have to build meter by killing enemies to do so. something in the region of 20 kills in hard mode if not more. As soon as your Nippo meter is full you get an incessant prompt to use it. Once used a scripted cinematic happens and the dragon you channel from your hands kills a few guys. Why I hate it is as soon as you use it, all the grunts lose the will to fight and fall on their ass begging fo you to spare them. You cant just kill everyone the normal way and not use the nippo, you have to use it to get to next area, the enemies keep respawning otherwise.
To be honest, I was fine with the respawning and at one point just kept killing guys until I was bored. It gave the game a bloody palace/survival mode vibe to it and hope its something that finds itself in the retail version. My record of kills before I died was 157.
With the changes to nippo in mind, dont be surprised if it becomes something you cant use in boss fights or if you can it becomes a finisher similar to god of war.
Stealth:
Can be ignored entirely. Dont worry about it.
Boss:
pitfully easy even on hard. Nothing really to report that you cant see in videos.
Wall climb:
Counter-intuitive and fucking shit. Even worse to play than what it looks like.
Performance:
Holy shit. Wasnt the lack of decapitations supposed be to make sure the game ran smoothly? NG3 has the most framerate drops I have ever seen in a Ninja gaiden game, outside of the staircase fight in NG2. At most there are about 5 grunts on screen as well as Ryu, but once you take into all the blood and lighting effects from the New UT, the framerate Chugs down to about 20Fps. Granted, this was only in the area that I was letting enemies continuously respawn but It was amazing to see that this got past QA. And yes, even without that, performance seemed noticeable worse on 360 than it did on PS3.
There are a couple other things ive forgotten but thats the majority of it in a nutshell. From what I have played, it seems like the game is running on NG2 engine and hayashi hasnt refined a damn thing about it. Instead he has just dumped his stink on top of it and lowered the precision that made the game so good in the first place.
That said, it was actually quite fun and is still a serviceable NG game to a point. Id call this the DMC4 of the NG series which is still head and shoulders above 90% of action games today.
Definitely give it a try, but just keep your expectations low and returning fans should wait till it is on sale at a reduced price.
EDIT: one last thing...that guy in the consequence trailer? You have to kill him, there is no way to let him live.
I got to spend a lot of time with NG3 at the eurogamer expo yesterday and I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game will have to offer, based on this build. Im sure some things will change others I think will stay the same. Here Is a breakdown of my impressions.
Before I start, this is going to be a very long post so ill give a short version for people who dont want to read much.
Combatwise, If you are casual player, and have only really been interested in NG because its a badass ninja that kills things you shouldnt really have a reason for concern. While NG3 is definitely easier than previous entries, there is enough familiar things in the game to keep you happy.
People who are serious about the series and have beat the previous entries on anything higher than the basic difficulties there are a lot more causes for concern.
Movement.
Ryu still can move in the same way that he always has, he is fast and has the majority of his old traversal mechanics, even for some strange reason, the flying bird flip. The main addition as you may know by now is the slide. It is performed in the exact same way the dodge/ roll was performed in the previous entries (left trigger/L2 and direction) It can stun an enemy and can be cancelled into a jump so the dash, Jump, dash or roll,jump, roll can still be done. The windmill slash is also there (when ryu gets up from a roll and slashes) but the timing is iffy and doesnt always work.
You can still wall run to certain extent but again, the demo doesnt really have many areas to test this on and it seems to have different properties. It doesnt seem you can Flying stab from it.
Wind path (stepping on enemies head ) and wind run (x+y) are still present and are mostly unchanged.
Combos
Ignoring the SOB for a moment, The demo had the same amount of combos available as a level 2 dragon sword Moves like blade of nirriti ( x, y, x,x,x,x ) and Fang of the Wolf (x,x, y,y) were present and counted for
As well as the isunza drop. (x,y, x,x,x y) The timing felt a lot more lose than in previous entries , the margin for error seem to be increased dramatically. Outside of steel on bone, the combos seemed exactly the same if maybe a bit easier to perform.
Flying swallow/suplex/stab
The flying swallow is still here but it has now been changed to s cinemticatic stab/throw on connection. It seems to have lost a significant portion of its range and the multiple flying swallows are gone, at least for this stage of the game. In the rare times the grunts put up their guard, it can be blocked. The tool however is still there and can still be used for spacing and working around any errant camera problems.
It also can be cancelled into in all the way of the previous games (after a wind run, wind path, jump etc)
SOB/OT/UT
Ok, down to the meaty stuff. The steel on bone is a cinematic attack that has been the selling point of hayashis new direction. It occurs randomly, midcombo and there doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason to it apart from possibly it only engages once an enemy gets to a certain point in health. The good news is it can be avoided as much as possible by using air moves like blade of nirriti, flying swallow and a new combo that seems to be performed by jumping at the enemy, (x, y,x ,y,y) or something to that effect. Ryu basically attacks the enemy in the similar way to how the Black spider ninjas used to rush you in NG black/sigma , spinning in the air like a helicopter blade. It is topped off with a double flying swallow that look like the Annihilating Gleam UT from NG2 (360+Y after max charge)
You may even be able to launch enemies and simply shrunken cancel them too, but Im not that good to try anything like that.
The worst thing about steel on bone is it doesnt kill enemies on the higher difficulties, they can still stumble around and while none attacked me in the demo after a SOB, its possible. You still need to finish them off.
Different combos seem to have a different steel on bone and it doesnt seem enemy specific at all.
One thing to note about the button prompt. Most of the time, it doesnt matter what button you press during a SOB, both attack buttons will make the animation go through. The only time it matter is if the enemy resists it, Which is not at all often.
OT:
Yes, believe it or not, OTs are still in this game. Once you have SOBed aenemy or have Izuna dropped one, you can finish them off using a OT. They work the same as in NG2 and there is little cosmetic change really except the obvious decapitation ones are missing.
UT:
Once you have killed about 2 or more enemies by UT or SOB, your arm glows red and you can perform a UT. It is a teleport move where ryu takes out 3 enemies. At times it seemed like it take out the enemies with the most health/untouched/most dangerous at others it seemed to be any 3 random grunts. A thing to note here is you cannot charge it, If you hold down the Y button, Ryu will do the old UT animation but nothing will happen. On landings still work, but like the isuna drop and almost everything else, the timing seems a lot easier. To be honest, its abit pointless to do an onlanding without stacked essence anyway.
Enemies:
The enemies in NG3 suck. I mean really fucking suck. The A.I is a joke even on hard. They rarely block (even the special ops that have fucking riot shields) They do however share some of the moves of the combat Ninjas from NGB, they have grab that they almost never use and a stab that does extra damage. But they are basically cannon fodder.
At this point id like to ask a question was was the single most annoying enemy in NG2? The one that made people give up on the game halfway through even on normal?(NB: IS ninjas come late in the game on normal)
Yes you guess it, the rocket motherfuckers are back. The single guys are easy as pie to deal with but somehow Hayashi has found the single cheapest thing in NG2 and made it worse. The Multiple rocket Ninjas (well these guys are far from ninjas but you know what I mean) are back. And the rockets are FASTER. Their inclusion alone should signal to NG players that the harder difficulties wont be balanced and fair, just filled with cheap stuff. They arent really a problem in the demo though because they spawn one at a time occasionally but im not looking forward to fighting multiples of them at once.
Nippo:
Oh fucking hell, the thing by far that was my biggest gripe with the game. Nippo has been changed dramatically in this game. It is now a move that you only can use once at a time and have to build meter by killing enemies to do so. something in the region of 20 kills in hard mode if not more. As soon as your Nippo meter is full you get an incessant prompt to use it. Once used a scripted cinematic happens and the dragon you channel from your hands kills a few guys. Why I hate it is as soon as you use it, all the grunts lose the will to fight and fall on their ass begging fo you to spare them. You cant just kill everyone the normal way and not use the nippo, you have to use it to get to next area, the enemies keep respawning otherwise.
To be honest, I was fine with the respawning and at one point just kept killing guys until I was bored. It gave the game a bloody palace/survival mode vibe to it and hope its something that finds itself in the retail version. My record of kills before I died was 157.
With the changes to nippo in mind, dont be surprised if it becomes something you cant use in boss fights or if you can it becomes a finisher similar to god of war.
Stealth:
Can be ignored entirely. Dont worry about it.
Boss:
pitfully easy even on hard. Nothing really to report that you cant see in videos.
Wall climb:
Counter-intuitive and fucking shit. Even worse to play than what it looks like.
Performance:
Holy shit. Wasnt the lack of decapitations supposed be to make sure the game ran smoothly? NG3 has the most framerate drops I have ever seen in a Ninja gaiden game, outside of the staircase fight in NG2. At most there are about 5 grunts on screen as well as Ryu, but once you take into all the blood and lighting effects from the New UT, the framerate Chugs down to about 20Fps. Granted, this was only in the area that I was letting enemies continuously respawn but It was amazing to see that this got past QA. And yes, even without that, performance seemed noticeable worse on 360 than it did on PS3.
There are a couple other things ive forgotten but thats the majority of it in a nutshell. From what I have played, it seems like the game is running on NG2 engine and hayashi hasnt refined a damn thing about it. Instead he has just dumped his stink on top of it and lowered the precision that made the game so good in the first place.
That said, it was actually quite fun and is still a serviceable NG game to a point. Id call this the DMC4 of the NG series which is still head and shoulders above 90% of action games today.
Definitely give it a try, but just keep your expectations low and returning fans should wait till it is on sale at a reduced price.
EDIT: one last thing...that guy in the consequence trailer? You have to kill him, there is no way to let him live.
Speedymanic
Banned
Jesus. 
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
another thing i forgot. You can chain SOB attacks if the enemies are close enough. It might be kill count dependant because I tried my hardest to not use the SOB at all for long periods.
As a DMC head first and foremost, I have to respectfully disagree. DMC2 is so bad people try and pretend it doesn't exist. Its only redeeming qualities is it introduced bloody palace mode to the series and had the best Dante/devil trigger design. This game is still fun in places, you just have to work around Hayashi's bullshit.
teamaxe said:
As a DMC head first and foremost, I have to respectfully disagree. DMC2 is so bad people try and pretend it doesn't exist. Its only redeeming qualities is it introduced bloody palace mode to the series and had the best Dante/devil trigger design. This game is still fun in places, you just have to work around Hayashi's bullshit.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
So, just to be clear, you had no control over which SOB you got? Did you specifically attempt that? Like say, do a toward+X or something in the middle of a combo or something?
Thanks for this analysis. It's just crazy to me that you would take out such a great mechanic for this useless stuff.
I can't believe that they're making you kill the first guy. Ridiculous. This seems like the perfect example of a design-by-committee game.
"Let's introduce morality and choice to NG!"
"yeah! great idea! Have the enemies really cower in fear!"
"Yeah, then to make sure you understand this mechanic, we'll make you kill the first guy!"
"Yeah. Wait..."
Arguably, NG's crowning achievement, and unique contribution to the 3rd person action game genre was the AI. They've completely reversed that too. It's really amazing.
Somebody should send the designers a DVD of movies of the first levels of GoW3, NG2 (on Mentor) and Bayonetta. I'm not saying that I want NG3 to be any of those games, but go play the prologue for Bayonetta (an older game at this point), and come back to these videos and try to stay awake.
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Did you ask if ninpo is only used for scripted events or are you just assuming this based on the demo?
And I wouldn't worry about framerate issues. That's always one of the final things to be optimized before the game ships.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I haven't played it, and I respect your opinion. I just not have seen a single video of any mechanic that I would call fun or original. Even the boss fight with the fencing guy looks completely rehashed block-dash-attack-while-boss-is-in-recovery-frames. What exactly did you find fun in this that you couldn't do in NG2 or NGB? I'd really like to know; I'm not being a smartass, here.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
teamaxe said:
As far as I could tell, the only time I purposely got a different SOB, was when I did a combo where the enemy would be knocked of his feet and id catch hi in the air with the sword. I forgot the notation of the combo but it was random and didnt happen every time.
The SOb themselves seemed random. Long as the enemies feet were on the ground, you would do a SOB mid combo. I spent the majority of my play time launching enemies and killing them with air moves instead.
teamaxe said:
Nothing.
But it still had enough of what was in NGB and NG2 that I found fun to have me keep coming back to the game to play more.
Rated-Rsuperstar said:
there was nobody to ask.
And twice in the game, I could not progress unless I used it. it was a scripted event and could not be directed, just like the the dual nippo from sigma 2.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
sorry dp
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
edit..oh shit..sorry man. I thought I was on a new page...derp.
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
It wouldn't make much sense to put multiple ninpos in the game and then limit you to just scripted moments. I just assume this is something they want the player to see early on and then open it up in the later levels.
Seraphinianus
Banned
Speedymanic said:
WHY, Hayashi? WHY????
This gif...this gif. I have a feeling it'll be a classic for years. It's just perfect.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Rated-Rsuperstar said:
where did you read there will be multiple nippos? I thought that was just something that we just assumed like erm......multiple weapons in story mode?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
MechaX said:
I hate that im the barer of bad news but yeah. Like i said already, you can have alot of fun with the game, but its now an better than average action game, not the genre-definer it once was.
...I played this today.
http://www.psnstores.com/2011/09/eurogamer-expo-2011-day-2-part-2/
That's all I wrote about it, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
http://www.psnstores.com/2011/09/eurogamer-expo-2011-day-2-part-2/
That's all I wrote about it, but I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
benzy said:
I cant say it IRL without it sounding like "nipple"
ultim8p00 said:
No.
Call it what you want, but it is far from a button basher. If you take some time to learn the moves list, you should be able to largely ignore the SOB stuff.
NG heads will have fun with the game, its just a shame that is going to be so damn easy.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
dp....sorry again.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Jesus that's....depressing. Man...MAN! God fucking dammit.
Nora Kisaragi
Banned
I didn't ask for this.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Nora Kisaragi said:
well, something for that will perk you up specifically. The writer of the original trilogy is doing the writing for this game, so expect to see some familiar faces.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Does it matter when the moves get randomly interrupted by SoBs? Apparently the only way you can avoid them is by doing ground to air combos, which is also fucking broken. Ninja Gaiden doesn't have nearly as much variety in air combos as it does with ground combos, and essentially you end up doing the same thing over and over.
Either way it's broken.
Robot Pants
Member
It's aight. They've saved me 60 bucks. And after this holiday 2011, I'm gonna need some time to re-cooperate financially.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
ultim8p00 said:
Yeah....... I guess I cant argue with that.
:-[
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
I think some of the scripted stuff are for the demo/prologue area purposes only.
Let's just wait and see, ok?
Let's just wait and see, ok?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!! said:
I honestly don't think so. It took way too long and too many kills to build up enough meter to cast nippo.
while it maybe that not every enemy falls on their ass after casting it, it definitely seems like it is used to end the fight.
One thing I also forgot to mention about the sequence.....soon as u regain control after casting it, your health recharges to full.
Generic said:
Oh........................................................:-s
snap. Fuck it. Im still calling it nippo, just like I still pronounce gaiden as Gay-den and Ryu as Ri-U.
Im a ignorant englishman....sue me.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
ultim8p00 said:
Enemy AI routines surely have elements of randomness built in. If the element of randomness is in the enemy behavior, that means the player has to react to the present situation on the fly. That isn't the same thing as being a broken button masher.
edit: i guess you already clarified your point above
â Narayan
Member
Why are they bringing Sigma to the PSV? Seems like a waste.
Seraphinianus
Banned
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Thanks. I've criticized alot of the main issues that have been talked about, especially in this thread. If alot of people are vocal about these changes, then Team Ninja might consider changing them. I also believe the password is "ninja" without a caps N ("Ninja" didn't work for me).
sixteen-bit
Member
Seems like a waste.Smision said: