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Ninja Gaiden Black & 2: Enemies are there to fucking kill you, they are not passive entities that you can hack & slash your way through. You cut a guy in half and his torso will cling to you and explode a grenade to take you out with him.

Ninja Gaiden 3: Enemies bow at your awesomeness and flee from you.

How far we've come, right guys?

 

[teamaxe]

NG has a movelist that rivals tekken characters, when all weapons are taken into account. But to beat the game on normal difficulites you dont need to use more than 3 basic combos and can get away with just mashing the attack buttons, blocking and countering.

Okay, that's just ridiculous.

Ninja Gaiden 2 FIRST SCREEN

I think that this refutes your point. This isn't even the hardest difficulty. You'll notice that he barely even damages, must less KILLS an enemy. He never even gets off the first encounter. ..and what's more, you can see his button inputs on the screen.

Edit: Didn't see the edit. I would argue that even on Normal, this is false. Mashing attack buttons means that you're going to hit Y a lot which means that you are going to be put into recovery a lot. Unless you want to throw up a youtube, I'm just going to say that this is flat out wrong.

 

[benzy]

Yeah, but they all won't do that, and it should happen less in higher difficulties.

Hayashi wants you to feel the consequences of killing these begging-for-their-life soldiers. It's apart of the gameplay design now, highly doubt changing the difficulty will do anything.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I don't believe you know what you are talking about.

Then educate me. How is an on landing UT not like a super?

There have been serious camera issues with NG games. However, NG3 camera issues are design issues. The constant zoom factor destroys all combat flow and affects environmental awareness. It is a cheap idea for a cinematic effect at the cost of actual gameplay. It looks terrible.

I can only speak from experience but any time Ive had a problem with the camera, a well timed flying swallow corrected it. Its not like you ever get stuck behind a wall or cannot see what's ahead. Even the often complained about off screen IS spam from NG2 is not a serious problem if you are navigating the space properly.

NG3 has a bad camera for different reason but thats not what im talking about.

That's ridiculous.

Your welcome to your opinion. If want to talk camera issues, play sonic 06 then get back to me. If you can work around it effectively, its not a problem.

That's not what button mashing is.

Well ive always defined button bashing as pressing buttons indiscriminately without understanding the product of each input. feel free to correct me.

Okay, that's just ridiculous.

Ninja Gaiden 2 FIRST SCREEN

I think that this refutes your point. This isn't even the hardest difficulty. You'll notice that he barely even damages, must less KILLS an enemy. He never even gets off the first encounter. ..and what's more, you can see his button inputs on the screen.

Edit: Didn't see the edit. I would argue that even on Normal, this is false. Mashing attack buttons means that you're going to hit Y a lot which means that you are going to be put into recovery a lot. Unless you want to throw up a youtube, I'm just going to say that this is flat out wrong.

If you are just mashing one button then yes your right. But Ive never seen anyone mash one button on its own.

im talking about just pressing buttons without knowing what each attack does. Clearly you guys have a different definition of button bashing than I do.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

whoops sorry for the double.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Ninja Gaiden's Black & 2: Enemies are there to fucking kill you, they are not passive entities that you can hack & slash your way through. You cut a guy in half and his torso will cling to you and explode a grenade to take you out with him.

Ninja Gaiden 3: Enemies bow at your awesomeness and flee from you.

How far we've come, right guys?

The gif at the top of gage 3/6 says it all

 

[Seraphinianus]

Okay, that's just ridiculous.

Ninja Gaiden 2 FIRST SCREEN

I think that this refutes your point. This isn't even the hardest difficulty. You'll notice that he barely even damages, must less KILLS an enemy. He never even gets off the first encounter. ..and what's more, you can see his button inputs on the screen.

Edit: Didn't see the edit. I would argue that even on Normal, this is false. Mashing attack buttons means that you're going to hit Y a lot which means that you are going to be put into recovery a lot. Unless you want to throw up a youtube, I'm just going to say that this is flat out wrong.

Thoughts is partially right though. In NG2, pick your favorite combo that takes off limbs (x, x, y with the lv2 + 3 lunar is my fave.) then use OT. You have to have decent defense, but you can wreck normal with this. In NGS2 it works in mentor mode too. I like NG1 AI the best.

 

[Robot Pants]

Thoughts is right though. In NG2, pick your favorite combo that takes off limbs (x, x, y with the lv2 + 3 lunar is my fave.) then use OT. You have to have decent defense, but you can wreck normal with this. In NGS2 it works in mentor mode too. I like NG1 AI the best.

NG1 AI just blocked a lot. In NG2 they pretty much scrapped blocking with all-out assault.
They are pretty much on the same level, just suited best for the games they were included in.

 

[gunbo13]

Then educate me. How is an on landing UT not like a super?

I was focusing on the other two sentences. Though you edited to explain, that also didn't add up. I'm not sure what you are trying to say regarding button mashing, chance in combat, or NG's balance.

And yes, there are also issues comparing UT to a super. Typically when we compare these games to FG titles, we mostly refer to frame data and player/enemy behavior. Comparing to super moves, fireballs, etc... doesn't make much sense in 3d space. The similarities are also usually just mechanical. In your comparison, the only real similarities is both attack types use some sort of accumulative energy buffering and that they have flashy animations.

I can only speak from experience but any time Ive had a problem with the camera, a well timed flying swallow corrected it. Its not like you ever get stuck behind a wall or cannot see what's ahead. Even the often complained about off screen IS spam from NG2 is not a serious problem if you are navigating the space properly.

No, there are significant issues with the NG camera. That isn't really up for interpretation. Working around a lack of sight doesn't mean you aren't blind. And lack of control to counter such an issue means it is inherent.

Your welcome to your opinion. If want to talk camera issues, play sonic 06 then get back to me. If you can work around it effectively, its not a problem.

Citing a worse camera then a said game doesn't mean that game doesn't share the same problematic attribute.

Well ive always defined button bashing as pressing buttons indiscriminately without understanding the product of each input. feel free to correct me.

Linear combo usage along with block/counter mechanics is NOT button mashing. If it is, then I guess I'm a button masher because that is how I went through Bayonetta.

 

[essyouemeight]

Let's all play Ninja Gaiden Black. I just bought it off XBL just to remember how badass it was.

 

[Canova]

DmC haters vs NG3 haters arguing which game should be hated more. Pathetic

 

[teamaxe]

im talking about just pressing buttons without knowing what each attack does. Clearly you guys have a different definition of button bashing than I do.

You had said higher difficulties where this applies. I responding specifically to that. You cannot button mash in any capacity on any difficulty and succeed in any Ninja Gaiden. You'll have to provide some evidence if you think that claim is true, since you made it. I believe that it is common knowledge that button-mashing does not work in either NG or DMC.

In defense of my statement, I will say that it is impossible to beat Murai (level 1 Boss) with button mashing as he is specifically designed to counter that. His grabs have frame advantage to everything in Ryu's offensive arsenal at that point. The only way to beat Murai is to take advantage of his recovery frames. This is the exact opposite of button-mashing.

 

[rvy]

For me, NG3 is more tragic. Ninja Gaiden has a much longer legacy, and I feel like this is the first time where that legacy isn't being respected.

Ninja Gaiden 1 (NES) - Cinematics and an actual story in an action game. BRUTAL difficulty. Iconic enemies, power ups and hero introduction. This game is still relevant today and is still referenced by other games. A masterpiece.
Ninja Gaiden Arcade - I don't know if this came first, but it had a great beat-em up formula. Environment interaction being a unique feature.
Ninja Gaiden 2 - Definitive sequel. Improved upon the original's formula in every way. Ninja Ghosts that follow you and mimic your every move being the ground breaking feature. Another masterpiece.
Ninja Gaiden 3 - End of the trilogy. While it doesn't live up to the previous two games, it's still a competent action game in it's own right and tried some new things.

DOA - Keeping Ryu around in a fighting game. While not my favorite series, it did have some awesome features like the counter system.

Ninja Gaiden Xbox - A Modern classic. A reinvention of the series, but with plenty of homages to the original series (windmill shrunken, firewheel, etc.). Most brutal first level in the history of video games, IMO. IMO, it has the best enemies in video games, even today.
Hurricane Packs - I can't express how awesome a time it was during the Hurricane Pack introductions. You got to see the original developers going back to their code base and adding in a ridiculous amount of new features, enemies, levels, gamer interaction and balancing for free. I'd have to say this was one of my favorite eras in video games. Each time a new HP came out, we'd all go through the campaign again to see all of the changes and they were comprehensive.
Ninja Gaiden Black - A masterpiece. Nothing else needs to be said.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma - A lateral update. Some things are improved, but a lot of questionable design choices were implemented.
Ninja Gaiden 2 - Most ridiculous enemy interaction system I think I've ever experienced. Unbelievably well designed dismemberment system that served 2 goals. Giving players an extremely diverse, unique and interesting visual flair to the combat, while giving hardcore players an EXTREMELY deep gameplay system with many nuances. Still, this game is flawed in a number of ways, so it doesn't approach the mantel of NGB. If studio issues were not present, I believe that this would've been a masterpiece as well.
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 - Ugh. A LOT of simply incorrect design decisions, but there was a lot of new content developed. So, this one gets a pass.

Now, to NG3, I see nothing compelling. It's tragic. At least with DmC, there is some attempt being made to provide something new at least to the series. There is none of that with NG3, it's a complete regression.

I like your style, too good to be a Junior. Agreed on almost everything, DmC can go suck a dick and die.

 

[Elginer]

What I saw at E3 has me more than a little skeptical of this new NG but holy shit that gif CANNOT be real. WTF happened here? Oh how the mighty has fallen. Where Ryu was once under constant threat of death, now he's as casual as a walk in the fucking park with dudes bowing before him to blow kisses as he walks by.

Itagaki is disappoint.

 

[gunbo13]

Thoughts is partially right though. In NG2, pick your favorite combo that takes off limbs (x, x, y with the lv2 + 3 lunar is my fave.) then use OT. You have to have decent defense, but you can wreck normal with this. In NGS2 it works in mentor mode too. I like NG1 AI the best.

His statement has merit but his conclusion does not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the above play-style. The only clause is that you are using linear combo selection. What is a problem in such action games is DPS balance from certain combos. Bayonetta suffers from combo imbalance mostly due to wicked weave attacks. You don't want to have to gimp your combos to style.

And the basic premise for button mashing, as many have mentioned it, is not cognitively differentiation between attack patterns/inputs with no accountability for outside mechanics. Using a small amount of combos, even if they are simple [] /\ /\ strings, is not button mashing. You are planning and executing. Using countering, spacing, defense also eliminates any idea of button mashing. You are using intermediate to advanced techniques and almost certainly not indiscriminately hitting various attacks buttons without reasoning.

The confusion is between button mashing and linear combat. If you want to argue that NG only requires linear combat, then you are right. You would also be right about that regarding DMC and Bayonetta. If you want to argue that NG caters towards linear combat due to combo imbalance? Well, then we certainly have something to discuss so roll your sleeves up.

 

[Chamber]

DmC haters vs NG3 haters arguing which game should be hated more. Pathetic

More like DMC fans and NG fans, mostly one in the same, arguing which is more disappointing.

 

[rvy]

More like DMC fans and NG fans, mostly one in the same, arguing which is more disappointing.

Nope, "haters" is the new disgruntled fan. It's just easier that way.

 

[gunbo13]

Nope, "haters" is the new disgruntled fan. It's just easier that way.

I also hate celery. But I think might like DmC more.

 

[PJX]

uh...what? To sum up his arguments, he basically said that because NG3 has become random, it now feels like a button masher whereas DmC is still trying to retain some kind of combat with a flow. It's debatable, but at least it's an argument that can be convincing depending on your stance.

You on the other hand just posted two annoying gifs that take up space in the thread without saying anything substantial. That's exactly what just happened.

Yeah Ok

 

[rvy]

I also hate celery. But I think might like DmC more.

Good aphrodisiac, hater.

 

[Carbonox]

I am interested in Ninja Gaiden 3. I don't hate what I've seen so far but then I'm not 'in' on the Ninja Gaiden series, so it's hard to really understand what makes a Ninja Gaiden game a...well...a Ninja Gaiden game. I just own Sigma 2 and absolutely loved it, and regard it as one of the best action games of the generation. Devil May Cry/Bayonetta is where my allegiance and specialism lies.

 

[charsace]

DmC has DMC directors working with them on combat. Team Ninja has lost the plot. I'll give DmC the slight edge. My greatest hope for NG3 right now, after seeing all this crap, is that it'll at least be a fun spectacle to play through like God of War.





Edit:

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD IS THIS REAL LIFE? AM I REALLY SEEING THIS?!

Spider Ninjas am cry if they saw this. WTF!?! Ninja Gaiden 3ussy Ass Bitches Cower.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I was focusing on the other two sentences. Though you edited to explain, that also didn't add up. I'm not sure what you are trying to say regarding button mashing, chance in combat, or NG's balance.

And yes, there are also issues comparing UT to a super. Typically when we compare these games to FG titles, we mostly refer to frame data and player/enemy behavior. Comparing to super moves, fireballs, etc... doesn't make much sense in 3d space. The similarities are also usually just mechanical. In your comparison, the only real similarities is both attack types use some sort of accumulative energy buffering and that they have flashy animations.

The average joe is not going to compare frame rate data if he even knows what that is. Nor is he going to give any real thought to the difference between player and A.I. The comparison of energy buffering and flashy animation are exactly the things he will notice and compare. I should know because until this year, I was a total scrub at most FG.

No, there are significant issues with the NG camera. That isn't really up for interpretation. Working around a lack of sight doesn't mean you aren't blind. And lack of control to counter such an issue means it is inherent.

Once again, the flying swallow technique is in my view an effective counter. It removes the problem to the point it is not an issue.

Citing a worse camera then a said game doesn't mean that game doesn't share the same problematic attribute.

Sonic 06 is an example of a game breaking camera. There are times that you will die regardless of what you do soley because of the camera. Im simply pointing out that NG does not have this issue and neither does DMC. Even at their worst, you can make through every area without receving damage.

Linear combo usage along with block/counter mechanics is NOT button mashing. If it is, then I guess I'm a button masher because that is how I went through Bayonetta.

Ok, let me explain it like this. One of the most effective techniques in NG is the izuna drop x,y,x,x,x,y (for DS)

to do it, you need fairly precise timing (nothing like jump cancels, but precise enough) To someone who knows what they are doing its not an issue. But to an average player or someone who has just picked up the game, they end up doing blades of Nirrti (x,y,x,x,x) simply because once you have an enemy in the air, the instinct is to keep hammering at buttons, which in this case is x. That is what I define as button bashing.

Even still, it is still an effective combo and will put an enemy in stun long enough to attack again.

with the block/counter mechanic, you dont need know the timing required to perform a reverse wind counter. You just need to let go of block and press X repeatedly. you will parry, then attack. Compare that to a jump cancel where if you don't press jump on the right frame, you will fall out of the combo you have created. Its alot more precise and a lot further out of the reach of the area player.

Bayonetta is totally different game simply because no matter what weapon you equip, the movelist is exactly the same and are all variations of the same thing.

DmC haters vs NG3 haters arguing which game should be hated more. Pathetic

Thank you for adding to the discussion. Please call again.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Your welcome to your opinion. If want to talk camera issues, play sonic 06 then get back to me. If you can work around it effectively, its not a problem.

Well ive always defined button bashing as pressing buttons indiscriminately without understanding the product of each input. feel free to correct me.

If you are just mashing one button then yes your right. But Ive never seen anyone mash one button on its own.

im talking about just pressing buttons without knowing what each attack does. Clearly you guys have a different definition of button bashing than I do.

If a problem can be solved, it was never a problem to begin with. Interesting definition.

NG has a movelist that rivals tekken characters, when all weapons are taken into account. But to beat the game on normal difficulites you dont need to use more than 3 basic combos and can get away with just mashing the attack buttons, blocking and countering.

As for your definition of button mashing, you say you can just mash buttons, block, and dodge. If you're blocking and dodging at the right times, which presumably you are because in your scenario the person is successfully progressing through the game, then that really stretches the common definition of button mashing, doesn't it?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

If a problem can be solved, it was never a problem to begin with. Interesting definition.

If the problem is viewed as game breaking, yes.

As for your definition of button mashing, you say you can just mash buttons, block, and dodge. If you're blocking and dodging at the right times, which presumably you are because in your scenario the person is successfully progressing through the game, then that really stretches the common definition of button mashing, doesn't it?

well from my vantage point, if that is not the definition of button bashing and it is simply just pressing any button repeatedly, then there is no such thing as a game being a "button basher" because no game, however simple rewards this. Therefore the term serves no purpose and shouldn't be used.

You had said higher difficulties where this applies. I responding specifically to that. You cannot button mash in any capacity on any difficulty and succeed in any Ninja Gaiden. You'll have to provide some evidence if you think that claim is true, since you made it. I believe that it is common knowledge that button-mashing does not work in either NG or DMC.

In defense of my statement, I will say that it is impossible to beat Murai (level 1 Boss) with button mashing as he is specifically designed to counter that. His grabs have frame advantage to everything in Ryu's offensive arsenal at that point. The only way to beat Murai is to take advantage of his recovery frames. This is the exact opposite of button-mashing.

I didnt mean it could be played on higher difficulties as a button basher. I said that it can be played at the highest level or effectively as a button basher. I have a bad habit of missing words out when I type things, that's why I edit so much. sorry for the confusion.

What im going to admit here is that I call button bashing, seems to be better described as linear combat. that said, my point still remains, once you realise you can roll out the way of Murai's ET attack, it doesn't matter if you know the properties of the attack string you are peforming, all that matter that you press random buttons, until he regains his footing and the process starts again.

It doesn't take any thought and is barely scratching the surface of the depth of NG's combat.

 

[gunbo13]

The average joe is not going to compare frame rate data if he even knows what that is. Nor is he going to give any real thought to the difference between player and A.I. The comparison of energy buffering and flashy animation are exactly the things he will notice and compare. I should know because until this year, I was a total scrub at most FG.

Why would we want to discuss how a novice views similarities between action and fighting games? If it is not quite accurate, then it really isn't worth mentioning. If you want to talk cool-downs, buffering, just frames, counters, cancels, etc... then we can talk FG games. But special moves, super movies, ninpo, etc... all that stuff is really just shallow in comparison that they aren't worth mentioning.

Once again, the flying swallow technique is in my view an effective counter. It removes the problem to the point it is not an issue.

No, it really doesn't. Reliance on a special move to put you in proper camera positioning is not effective. Some of us play these games under strict rules of mechanics. Throwing out an FS as a counter would be an issue. I'm not sure how much merit there is to your claim though. All you are doing is using the FS to adjust your spacing.

Sonic 06 is an example of a game breaking camera. There are times that you will die regardless of what you do soley because of the camera. Im simply pointing out that NG does not have this issue and neither does DMC. Even at their worst, you can make through every area without receving damage.

The games don't have game breaking cameras, I agree. But NG does have substantial camera issues where others games do not. It affects gameplay and can't be ignored. Here with NG3 we are seeing zoom cuts which are negatively affecting the flow of combat intentionally. That's just counter-productive.

But to an average player or someone who has just picked up the game, they end up doing blades of Nirrti (x,y,x,x,x) simply because once you have an enemy in the air, the instinct is to keep hammering at buttons, which in this case is x. That is what I define as button bashing.

That's just mashing a single button due to a lack of knowledge. That's a common definition like mashing during a Storm super in MvC2 (which works however). Button mashing in action games is very different and I described it in detail.

Your now more describing an ignorance is bliss argument. These are instances where gamers are pulling off advanced techniques by chance. While this does occur, it is short and sweet. Even if you push the argument into the direction of a novice not exploiting a technique as well as an advanced player, that's not button mashing nor a criticism. Your skill will always win in the end if it is more advanced and efficient. I'm not doing to knock somebody who can't do seamless buffering into tempest in DMC3 and they require a cool-down making them vulnerable. I'm also not going to dock the game points if this same player does pull off proper tempest buffering without realizing it. Because I know that I have a skill in the bag and they have a bit of short bliss.

Bayonetta is totally different game simply because no matter what weapon you equip, the movelist is exactly the same and are all variations of the same thing.

How does that disqualify Bayonetta exactly?

If the problem is viewed as game breaking, yes.

Which doesn't apply to any of the games we are talking about. So where are we?

 

[SapientWolf]

I am interested in Ninja Gaiden 3. I don't hate what I've seen so far but then I'm not 'in' on the Ninja Gaiden series, so it's hard to really understand what makes a Ninja Gaiden game a...well...a Ninja Gaiden game. I just own Sigma 2 and absolutely loved it, and regard it as one of the best action games of the generation. Devil May Cry/Bayonetta is where my allegiance and specialism lies.

It's not hard. The thing that makes NG NG is that the grunts can kill you.

 

[Carbonox]

It's not hard. The thing that makes NG NG is that the grunts can kill you.

That's how it should be. The first Devil May Cry is the only game in the series to feature similar, brutal bog-standard enemies. Something that's yet to be replicated in the series.

I can understand that long-time fans who really know the ins and outs of Ninja Gaiden would be annoyed at how these enemies are backing away from Ryu. I loved how they would try and crawl after you in NG2, despite losing a limb or w/e. A great feature and something that doesn't completely halt the pace of the current situation you're in.

However, in Ninja Gaiden 3, is it just these human enemies that do it? On a logical note, I could understand the human enemies backing off from this superhuman ninja, providing it doesn't apply to otherworldly enemies. That would annoy even me.

Still, I don't possess the wisdom to know the technicalities of this series so I might be off the mark.

 

[Speedymanic]

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD IS THIS REAL LIFE? AM I REALLY SEEING THIS?!

What the absolute fuck. :c

Seriously, fuck this game. I was willing to overlook the QTE's as they were part of the tutorial and was even willing to put up with the idiotic zoom in for the kill crap, but enemies cowering and not attacking? Fuck that shit and fuck you too, Hayashi. :X

And for those claiming they made it easier because it has a reputation for being a hard game, will you be singing the same tune if the Dark Soul developers turn the next title in that series into a pussified, one win button QTE fest?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Why would we want to discuss how a novice views similarities between action and fighting games? If it is not quite accurate, then it really isn't worth mentioning. If you want to talk cool-downs, buffering, just frames, counters, cancels, etc... then we can talk FG games. But special moves, super movies, ninpo, etc... all that stuff is really just shallow in comparison that they aren't worth mentioning.

My original point centred on how NG actually has novice appeal. Thats the point of view from which I made that statement and I stand by it.

No, it really doesn't. Reliance on a special move to put you in proper camera positioning is not effective. Some of us play these games under strict rules of mechanics. Throwing out an FS as a counter would be an issue. I'm not sure how much merit there is to your claim though. All you are doing is using the FS to adjust your spacing.

Spacing which the camera automatically adjusts to, negating any camera problem.

The games don't have game breaking cameras, I agree. But NG does have substantial camera issues where others games do not. It affects gameplay and can't be ignored. Here with NG3 we are seeing zoom cuts which are negatively affecting the flow of combat intentionally. That's just counter-productive.

I just dont see the NG or DMC cameras to be as big problems as they are made out to be. as for NG3, I don't deny that But my point was about the complaints levelled at previous titles, not these new ones. One thing we can agree on is neither of these new directions have better solutions.

That's just mashing a single button due to a lack of knowledge. That's a common definition like mashing during a Storm super in MvC2 (which works however). Button mashing in action games is very different and I described it in detail.

From what im seen, the same sort of mashing is seen as one and the same. Ive already conceded that while it might not be "button bashing" in the strictest definition of the word, that's what I have always know to call it.

Your now more describing an ignorance is bliss argument. These are instances where gamers are pulling off advanced techniques by chance. While this does occur, it is short and sweet. Even if you push the argument into the direction of a novice not exploiting a technique as well as an advanced player, that's not button mashing nor a criticism. Your skill will always win in the end if it is more advanced and efficient. I'm not doing to knock somebody who can't do seamless buffering into tempest in DMC3 and they require a cool-down making them vulnerable. I'm also not going to dock the game points if this same player does pull off proper tempest buffering without realizing it. Because I know that I have a skill in the bag and they have a bit of short bliss.

Buts it got nothing to do with deducting games points. The payoffs of the NG combat system have a lower barrier of entry than DMC, at least at the levels that are being dumbed down in these new games. It doesn't make it a worse game, just different.

How does that disqualify Bayonetta exactly?

Because the advanced techniques require less understanding of the individual weapons and their inputs. The moves are the same input wise so you need less thought to what you are doing.

Which doesn't apply to any of the games we are talking about. So where are we?

arguing about examples of gaming perfection to take our minds off gaming trash.

That's how it should be. The first Devil May Cry is the only game in the series to feature similar, brutal bog-standard enemies. Something that's yet to be replicated in the series.

I can understand that long-time fans who really know the ins and outs of Ninja Gaiden would be annoyed at how these enemies are backing away from Ryu. I loved how they would try and crawl after you in NG2, despite losing a limb or w/e. A great feature and something that doesn't completely halt the pace of the current situation you're in.

However, in Ninja Gaiden 3, is it just these human enemies that do it? On a logical note, I could understand the human enemies backing off from this superhuman ninja, providing it doesn't apply to otherworldly enemies. That would annoy even me.

Still, I don't possess the wisdom to know the technicalities of this series so I might be off the mark.

from hayashi's comments, I don't expect a return of the fiends. So while some enemies will be tougher, this cowering and pleading for your life stuff is going to be throughout the game.

 

[Carbonox]

from hayashi's comments, I don't expect a return of the fiends. So while some enemies will be tougher, this cowering and pleading for your life stuff is going to be throughout the game.

...

Really?

Ok now I see where the problem is. :lol

 

[gunbo13]

My original point centred on how NG actually has novice appeal. Thats the point of view from which I made that statement and I stand by it.

Novice appeal != novice gameplay. You were certainly talking about the latter.

Spacing which the camera automatically adjusts to, negating any camera problem.

Solving a problematic camera view using a mechanic means the camera isn't problematic? You are really spinning with this idea.

From what im seen, the same sort of mashing is seen as one and the same. Ive already conceded that while it might not be "button bashing" in the strictest definition of the word, that's what I have always know to call it.

That's fine. But what I wrote in a post above is likely more of an accepted version of button mashing in FG and action games. I wouldn't mind if anybody disputed me but I believe most of us have a visual picture when someone says "button mashing in Devil May Cry."

Buts it got nothing to do with deducting games points. The payoffs of the NG combat system have a lower barrier of entry than DMC, at least at the levels that are being dumbed down in these new games. It doesn't make it a worse game, just different.

In some regards NG has an easier entry then other action titles. But you also have to clarify which NG and in what context. And Bayonetta has by far the easiest entry difficulty of the holy trinity. That's not even close.

Because the advanced techniques require less understanding of the individual weapons and their inputs. The moves are the same input wise so you need less thought to what you are doing.

User combo design > the complexity of memorizing move inputs x 1,000,000. Move lists become a wash when it comes to really high level play. Only do you need to dig into move #7/100 when doing combo displays.

 

[essyouemeight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good I guess

Edit3: Looks like a mix of ninja dog and normal mode in the other games.

Gonna have to crank up the difficulty to master ninja to enjoy this game

 

[subversus]

practise makes perfect. Im far from a great DMC player myself but it can be learnt

this will get you started.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKoBz65eRaA

I've tried the demo again and didn't like it because it was easy and didn't feel fluid as was promised. But I think I might doing something wrong because I don't know how can I do combos when there is only one melee button. This is something new to me.

Now onto watching this video...

 

[rvy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Nope. My jaw dropped with the dumb intro about Ninja Gaiden not being a hardcore action game.

 

[subversus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good

this looks a bit better, like Ninja Gaiden on normal.

edit: not much though, still slow and janky.

 

[Heart Attack]

Not digging the new mechanics, but i know i'll eventually buy this. Not first day though.

 

[Dahbomb]

DmC haters vs NG3 haters arguing which game should be hated more. Pathetic

Everyone here is either a NG fan, a DMC fan or both (mostly both judging by the comments in this thread). We are lamenting at the fall of 2 of the greatest action game series ever made.

Pathetic can be attributed to the way these games are being handled. The response is natural.

 

[Throavium]

Pathetic can be attributed to the way these games are being handled. The response is natural.

Yes, respect to you my friend.

 

[SapientWolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good I guess

Edit3: Looks like a mix of ninja dog and normal mode in the other games.

Gonna have to crank up the difficulty to master ninja to enjoy this game

There is no more flying swallow. Not much blocking either.

 

[ironcreed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good I guess

Edit3: Looks like a mix of ninja dog and normal mode in the other games.

Gonna have to crank up the difficulty to master ninja to enjoy this game

I guess it looks a bit better there, but the camera... my god. The camera in NG was never great, but never bothered me either. However, all of this constant zooming in and out mess has got to go.

 

[essyouemeight]

There is no more flying swallow. Not much blocking either.

Well, whatever that new move is called, flying impalement. Either way, you can tell that SOB is everything that is wrong with NG3, as the game looks significantly better as the amount of SOBs decrease, especially after he dies and starts over.

If you took out SOBs and the random zooming, the game would be awesome.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

What the hell is happening to action games?

 

[Speedymanic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good I guess

Edit3: Looks like a mix of ninja dog and normal mode in the other games.

Gonna have to crank up the difficulty to master ninja to enjoy this game

That wasn't FS as it was known in the previous NG titles.

Also, something I just noticed...there's slowdown/zoom in when Ryu is kicked by enemies?

 

[Brannon]

Those debates were epic. NGB and DMC3SE when it comes to pure combat are still the pinnacle of the genre.

Understatement of all time. I didn't participate much in those debates, but I did read and listen to them, and basically agree with the good and bad qualities of both games/series. I could never take a side. I still stand by the point that "NG = Float like a butterfly" and "DMC = Sting like a bee". They just compliment each other THAT WELL.

Last gen gave birth to pure awesome. Why are they trying to kill it so soon?

 

[essyouemeight]

That wasn't FS as it was known in the previous NG titles.

Also, something I just noticed...there's slowdown/zoom in when Ryu is kicked by enemies?

Yeah I know, I've played NG before. I call it the FS because I don't know what to call it. It looks like the FS. I'm gonna miss shuriken cancelling FS into OTs.

Also, I like how they play the game like shit, literally standing there to get killed sometimes and generally flailing around like idiots, only to die and then say "as you can see even the developers have a hard time playing" Well duhh you fucktards!

 

[Kinyou]

Just watched the Gamespot Stage Demo... what the fuck am I looking at.

• British dude mentions that there are stealth sections, only to end up slaughtering a guy and alerting everyone. Why?

• 
  Especially annoying that they didn't even add some crouch move. When they are adding stealth they could at least do it right
  
  

  [*]Emphasis on "how it feels to kill someone with a katana". Why?

  Also weird that they on the one hand want to show how awesome it is to cut someone but on the other hand that there are some real consequences for every action.
  
  By now I assume that halfway through the game Ryu will refuse to kill anyone

 

[Chamber]

I don't think Hard mode is even as hard as Normal in the previous games. The person playing is literally trying to die.

 

[Paracelsus]

What the hell is happening to action games?

The best selling one is God of War.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19D7adYsZ0

Apparently this is Hard Mode

Edit: It seems as though there are different play styles and each play style has its own difficulty settings

Edit2: Blocked flying swallows, good I guess

Edit3: Looks like a mix of ninja dog and normal mode in the other games.

Gonna have to crank up the difficulty to master ninja to enjoy this game

Based on a Demo of the first Level?

I've played NG2 and Godnhand demoes at shows and completed them without dying, hardly said anything about the final products.

And you guys actually think ALL the enemies in the game with cower like this.