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How do you feel about city smoking bans?
- Thread starter bill0527
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BigBlue1974
Member
I completely support public smoking bans. No way it should be up to each establishment to decide, that's ridiculous. I do agree with the OP that it's hypocritical for the casino not to have to follow the same rules though.
Been like this for a couple of years here in Quebec. Best thing ever. Going to a restaurant without having some fucking shitty cigarette smoke and smell surrounding me is great. Since i'm so used to that by now, everytime i go in a trip in Jamaica or Dominican Republic and im surrounded by smokers, i feel like telling them to go away, but smokers are everywhere in those resorts...can't even watch the shows and have a drink there without getting that awful smell in the air.
I love the smoking bans. It is wonderful in restaurants, I hate the smell of smoke when I eat and now I can enjoy going out to more often. I also enjoy it in bars, I can leave and not smell awful. Most large bars (and many of the smaller ones too) have added smoking sections outside. They are covered patios with space heaters for the winter and often with a second bar outside. Some of the outside smoking patios are nicer than the inside bars.
Living in Ontario I haven't had to breathe smoke in about 6 or 7 years roughly. A few months ago I went to Japan where they don't really have any smoking bans or at least not as harsh... walking into arcades was a nightmare, especially on the fighting game floors.
I'm so glad we have a ban here.
I'm so glad we have a ban here.
the first time you go out and come back and realize you don't smell like a fucking ashtray is the greatest thing ever. Usually I hop in the shower to wash the stink off before bed, but now it's not needed.
And I'm an occasional cigar smoker - fortunately if my buddies and I want to do that, there are a few cigar bars we can hit or hit the casino.
And I'm an occasional cigar smoker - fortunately if my buddies and I want to do that, there are a few cigar bars we can hit or hit the casino.
How is that even remotely the same?
Could you explain why it is 'ridiculous'?
In this thread it has been made very clear that the majority are in favour of the ban. Licensees have a vested interest in serving the majority so you can be assured that non-smoking bars would continue to operate. All that happens when you give a choice is that a licensee has the option to cater to the minority crowd, and to source smoking staff accordingly. Everyone is catered for.
Tell me, what is 'ridiculous' about catering for everybody?
Keavy_Rain
Member
Anyone who comes from a family with respiratory problems (like me) will tell you that these bans are the best thing ever.
I have nothing against smokers, I just enjoy breathing.
Although, I do wish more places had covered and heated or cooled outdoor smoking areas. I always feel guilty when I see the smokers freezing or sweating or huddled under an umbrella.
I have nothing against smokers, I just enjoy breathing.
Although, I do wish more places had covered and heated or cooled outdoor smoking areas. I always feel guilty when I see the smokers freezing or sweating or huddled under an umbrella.
Maybe because second hand smoke is terrible for everyone? Why should they try to cater to people wanting that smoke to continue to exist inside bars and restaurants? Public health is more important than trying to please a bunch of smokers. Want to smoke that badly? Fine, but do that outside where it wont hurt anyone but yourself.
Here in Lexington, the complaint was that if it weren't universal, then business would be lost for the strictly non-smoking restaurants. Since smoking was more harmful and distracting than non-smoking (Plus the benefit of protecting the employees), then non-smoking was the way to go.
Since everyone still had the freedom to smoke, it wouldn't matter if they had to smoke inside or outside whereas the non-smokers were forced to inhale smoke even in the non-smoking sections since smoke knows no borders. It was especially stupid when restaurants put the bar smack in the middle of the building negating any benefit of a non-smoking section.
Since everyone still had the freedom to smoke, it wouldn't matter if they had to smoke inside or outside whereas the non-smokers were forced to inhale smoke even in the non-smoking sections since smoke knows no borders. It was especially stupid when restaurants put the bar smack in the middle of the building negating any benefit of a non-smoking section.
BertramCooper
Banned
As much as certain people try to play it off as a first amendment/freedom of choice issue, it's really a public health issue.
Restaurants and entertainment venues already have to conform to numerous government-mandated standards to protect the health of their customers and employees - from adhering to building codes to being subject to regular food inspections. Prohibiting smoking is just part of this system.
Restaurants and entertainment venues already have to conform to numerous government-mandated standards to protect the health of their customers and employees - from adhering to building codes to being subject to regular food inspections. Prohibiting smoking is just part of this system.
EYEL1NER
Member
I'm with this guy ^
There's a smoking ban here, but all the bars got around it by making the bar 'private' and charging a 'membership fee.'
I don't really care either way. I only really smoke when I drive and since I don't have a job at the moment, I'm not driving that much anymore, so I am smoking less and less. I also don't really care for smoking indoors somewhere.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
I think it's fantastic. Now I can give myself cirrhosis and get into drunken punch-ups in a clean, smoke-free atmosphere!
Wish they were more extensive and were enforced to the entrances of buildings as well.
Would literally rather step in fresh diarrhea every time I leave a bar/club than get disgusting second hand smoke.
Also wish people who threw their cig butts all over the fucking place were given the same littering fine someone who get for just dropping trash wherever they want.
Would literally rather step in fresh diarrhea every time I leave a bar/club than get disgusting second hand smoke.
Also wish people who threw their cig butts all over the fucking place were given the same littering fine someone who get for just dropping trash wherever they want.
bigtroyjon
Member
Terrible analogy. Streams and Oceans aren't specific to a city and would affect people other than the citizens of that city.
How do you feel about car drivers?
'Car Fumes Kill More Than Crashes'
or...BBC said:
'Car Fumes Raise Heart Attack Risk For 6 Hours'
BBC said:
Because as far as I can see, your points are all applicable to motorists too. Ever see a 4 seater car with one person in it? You ought to be chucking just as much shit at that guy. You can't be protected from every little thing in the world (although you could avoid it by not going to smoking-licensed bars).
dreamcastmaster
Banned
I agree with smoking bans in restaurants and some public places, but I like a smoke in bars and clubs. Beer and cigarettes go together. I've got no time for those anti-somiking guys that think they'll get cancer just because they can smell it.
bigtroyjon
Member
At some point people are going to have to enter that establishment due to their job and they shouldn't have to breath smoke to do it. Repairmen, policemen, EMTs, delivery guys will all end up in that bar at some point.
That isn't the case in my city or the casino wouldn't have got an exemption. The casino lobbied hard for the exemption and pulled numbers out of their asses claiming 5 million a year in lost tax revenue for the city. I guess my city cares about public health unless you are a casino patron. It's hypocritical. The city put a price tag on public health and that price tag is 5 million in tax revenue.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I am for smoking bans, and i am glad that they banned it in bars and restaurants. It was extremely uncomfortable for me to go to these places and enjoy my time.
@SmokeyDave
If there are special bars with only smokers in it, then it´s ok with me, but i don´t want a special part of a restaurant or a bar to have a smoking area.
@SmokeyDave
If there are special bars with only smokers in it, then it´s ok with me, but i don´t want a special part of a restaurant or a bar to have a smoking area.
Damn, Smokey, you should choose your articles better.
From the same fucking article:
Cigarette smoke is awful for your and everyone's health, and everyone knows it. It's not a first amendment thing. If you want to poison yourself, fine, but do it in fucking private.
I don't think it's hypocritical. A bar is for drinking. They have to get a license for it, unlike smoking. There are smoking bars (cigar and hookah) which allow you to smoke inside. Some even are BYOB, at least in Chicago.
Manmademan
Member
Philadelphia passed one of these ages ago. It's so much nicer to go out to a bar or restaurant, it's not even funny. I can hang out and not have my clothes reeking of smoke when I get home.
The rare instances where I head into the suburbs for a drink or a dinner and see hazy smoke filled rooms are always a surprise, and not in a good way.
The rare instances where I head into the suburbs for a drink or a dinner and see hazy smoke filled rooms are always a surprise, and not in a good way.
I read it before posting. I don't see how that excerpt affects what I said. If you're going to scream about negligible damage from external forces, at least remain consistent.
That's all I want, yeah. A totally separate bar for smokers. I just want somewhere I can have a pint and a cig in peace.
Loved them when I smoked, love them still now that I don't.
Rather than considering them a restaurant/bar smoking ban, I consider them a workplace smoking ban. I certainly wouldn't want people smoking around me in my office, so why should waitresses, bartenders and strippers have to put up with people smoking in theirs?
Rather than considering them a restaurant/bar smoking ban, I consider them a workplace smoking ban. I certainly wouldn't want people smoking around me in my office, so why should waitresses, bartenders and strippers have to put up with people smoking in theirs?
Is this real life? Lol
bigtroyjon
Member
lol. An article from 1999 and since then cars have been made more efficient and laws have been put in place to cut down on pollution.
And the second article doesn't prove your point at all
Bumblebeetuna
Member
No problem with them at all. Smoking is disgusting and harms everyone in the vicinity.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
Why's that? Because stinking of BO is so much better or did you want to wear the same clothes the next day?
Do you want 'clean air' or not?
I'm not entirely sure my point was understood, for what it's worth.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
California is currently running the most obnoxious anti-smoking ad ever. It's about how these two women talking about how the guy next door smokes and how him smoking in his own place is causing her kid to get deathly sick. Instead of mentioning this to the guy, they agree that they should go to the property manager and have smoking banned, period.
So, yeah. People really want the entire practice banned.
So, yeah. People really want the entire practice banned.
Well, let's see:
(1) People have already shown that they will accept the risks of car travel in exchange for its conveniences (including car crashes and pollutants)
(2) Cigarette smoke has no conveniences at all. I guess maybe weight loss in some people, but who would recommend cigarettes as a weight loss drug?
(3) The study to which you linked is old and arguably doesn't even prove the point you were trying to make.
(4) Calling second-hand cigarette smoke damage 'negligible' is hilarious.
Bay Maximus
Banned
I'm all for them. Fuck smokers killing me and my family because they gave in to peer pressure. You want to kill yourself? By all means. Take it outside and far away from the building.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I just wish they'd ban people smoking while walking in groups with non-smokers. Sucks that I have to sprint around some smoking jerk because their exhaust is going downwind.
Happens every single time I walk to/from work to Penn.
Happens every single time I walk to/from work to Penn.
I love it. I'm not the most healthy person around but that doesn't mean I'm begging to die quicker, take that nasty shit somewhere else.
I just wish it was banned in cars too. I hate having to be the douche to my friends and say "you're not getting in my car if you bring that shit in here"
I just wish it was banned in cars too. I hate having to be the douche to my friends and say "you're not getting in my car if you bring that shit in here"
The clothes still reeked of smoke even after taking them off. Also, people wear coats, hats, and hoodies to bars, which are all perfectly fine to wear again the following day, but would still smell like smoke after visiting a smoky bar.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
This is the best situation. I've worked in many offices that had an outside smoking area and it's good times.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I'm going to totally evade the question about how I feel or what's right or wrong, and just make an observation.
Many cities have passed smoking bans. In all of those cities, there has been an angry opposition to smoking bans. It's hard to say if opposition sentiment is a loud minority or a majority, but whatever the case, the cities pass the smoking bans anyway.
In the immediate wake of the smoking ban there is some small local news coverage about individual bars and restaurants having more or less traffic. The coverage might conclude that there has been a negative impact on restaurants/bars or it might not. The issue of smoker's rights is not covered at this stage, having already been totally ignored.
Within 6-9 months, no one cares anymore. It is accepted as a fact of reality. Smokers in some bars might smoke indoors while holding open the back door or otherwise "cheat", but by and large smoky bars and restaurants have ceased to exist, non-smokers don't care, smokers don't care, they go outside to smoke if they want to.
Within a few years, the idea that anyone could smoke in a restaurant or bar seems quaint and distant, like a memory not quite remembered right. Remember when all the bars used to be hazy and hard to see in it? Yeah, kinda, I guess? It's hard to really remember.
No city ever repeals a smoking ban after the fact.
So with that in mind, without actually making an argument for or against the merits of the ban itself, without actually talking about economic or business rights or smokers rights or any other argument on either side, without talking about the smell or second hand smoke... without actually addressing the issue--
--given that we already know that no one will care a year or two from now in your city, and no one will care a year or two from now in any city that passes it, is there even a discussion to be had here? It's so ephemeral. It's simply not going to be a thing a little while from now. It's not going to be an ongoing knock-down drag-out that goes back and forth for years or decades, the way most controversial policies do. My city passed a bar smoking ban around 2003 or 2004 or something, but I don't think any restaurants allowed smoking without a thick solid divider for maybe 8 or so years before that. I remember bars before the ban being hazy and smelly. I don't know if the ban has done anything, positive or negative. I just know the whole thing seems quaint when I hear people on the internet get fired up about it. That was so 10 years ago and absolutely no one where I live even thinks about it, let alone getting excitable enough to defend or attack it. It just is.
Many cities have passed smoking bans. In all of those cities, there has been an angry opposition to smoking bans. It's hard to say if opposition sentiment is a loud minority or a majority, but whatever the case, the cities pass the smoking bans anyway.
In the immediate wake of the smoking ban there is some small local news coverage about individual bars and restaurants having more or less traffic. The coverage might conclude that there has been a negative impact on restaurants/bars or it might not. The issue of smoker's rights is not covered at this stage, having already been totally ignored.
Within 6-9 months, no one cares anymore. It is accepted as a fact of reality. Smokers in some bars might smoke indoors while holding open the back door or otherwise "cheat", but by and large smoky bars and restaurants have ceased to exist, non-smokers don't care, smokers don't care, they go outside to smoke if they want to.
Within a few years, the idea that anyone could smoke in a restaurant or bar seems quaint and distant, like a memory not quite remembered right. Remember when all the bars used to be hazy and hard to see in it? Yeah, kinda, I guess? It's hard to really remember.
No city ever repeals a smoking ban after the fact.
So with that in mind, without actually making an argument for or against the merits of the ban itself, without actually talking about economic or business rights or smokers rights or any other argument on either side, without talking about the smell or second hand smoke... without actually addressing the issue--
--given that we already know that no one will care a year or two from now in your city, and no one will care a year or two from now in any city that passes it, is there even a discussion to be had here? It's so ephemeral. It's simply not going to be a thing a little while from now. It's not going to be an ongoing knock-down drag-out that goes back and forth for years or decades, the way most controversial policies do. My city passed a bar smoking ban around 2003 or 2004 or something, but I don't think any restaurants allowed smoking without a thick solid divider for maybe 8 or so years before that. I remember bars before the ban being hazy and smelly. I don't know if the ban has done anything, positive or negative. I just know the whole thing seems quaint when I hear people on the internet get fired up about it. That was so 10 years ago and absolutely no one where I live even thinks about it, let alone getting excitable enough to defend or attack it. It just is.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
really? I'm sure the environmental effects of drilling and burning fossil fuels is much worse.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Personally, I don't think this would work in practice as well as it sounds in theory. The thing is that, though there is a clear preference for smoking being banned for non-smokers, I honestly didn't know many people who adamantly refused to go to smoke-filled bars. I'm sure for some it was a deal-breaker, but I think most non-smokers just sucked it up and dealt with it. However, for a lot of smokers, smoking and drinking go hand-in-hand. Not allowing smoking is a deal-breaker, assuming the option to go to a smoking establishment exists. As such, the "let businesses decide" argument never really held a lot of water with me. I think overwhelmingly, given the choice, businesses would continue to allow smoking in some capacity since "Bar A allows smoking while Bar B doesn't" I think puts Bar B at a competitive disadvantage.
Obviously, your mileage may vary, but before the bans, I didn't know of a single establishment that was smoke-free. Aside from dining sections during hours where food was served, there was practically always ashtrays on tables that never had me questioning whether smoking was allowed or not. I say this because I think it kind of undermines the argument that if the free market says that non-smokers want a non-smoking bar, then surely the free market will cater to these people without need of regulations. Five years ago, when my non-smoking friends wanted to breath easily one night in a completely smoke-free establishment while downing alcoholic beverages, this theoretical place didn't exist.
And in all honesty, I never saw the big deal anyway. When the smoking ban hit Illinois in Aught Eight (the first I'd been exposed to), I thought it was going to be the end of a glorious era. I smoked at the time -- heavily at that when drinking. And I liked going to bars. But, the ban came and life went on. Even in the coldest parts of winter, I still managed to survive going outside to smoke. It was never a big deal.
My point is that we have a topic full of delicate flowers that can smell one smoke particle in a million (one guy in a moving car!) and yet I've never seen a single topic about car fumes or general pollution.
The way some people in here talk I'd expect them to need gas masks every time they leave the house.
I'm loving it.
Our part of Germany banned smoking in closed public places about 4 years ago with a few exceptions (there are special bars for smokers, and you can't serve food there), and since then, I go out much more. It's so much easier to enjoy a restaurant or a concert when there's no smoke making you feel nauseous.
I have no problem if someone smokes in an open spot like a sports stadium, and I'm not even that concerned about the health risks from second hand smoke. It's just that cigarette smoke smells awful, and it's intrusive as hell. I for one can't enjoy dinner if my surroundings smell like an ashtray, and my eyes and nose are swollen. It makes me feel sick.
Our part of Germany banned smoking in closed public places about 4 years ago with a few exceptions (there are special bars for smokers, and you can't serve food there), and since then, I go out much more. It's so much easier to enjoy a restaurant or a concert when there's no smoke making you feel nauseous.
I have no problem if someone smokes in an open spot like a sports stadium, and I'm not even that concerned about the health risks from second hand smoke. It's just that cigarette smoke smells awful, and it's intrusive as hell. I for one can't enjoy dinner if my surroundings smell like an ashtray, and my eyes and nose are swollen. It makes me feel sick.
Dude, smoking is a fucking filthy habit, I won't deny that. They are comparable when discussing air quality however. There's a new car sold in China every 2.3 seconds, anyone thinking that a smoking ban will improve the air quality should probably think about that.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
People have come to accept all kinds of egregious infringements on their rights from the government. There used to a be a time when you could board a plane without pat downs, X-Ray scans and taking off your clothing. This is still happening, but the outrage is pretty much gone for all of it, save for the dying embers of outrage over the body scans.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I love that smoking is banned inside of places in the UK, but it doesn't solve the problem of when I walk down a street I have to walk by a dozen filthy cunts who are smoking outside a door and still blowing it into my face.
I want a ban on it for everywhere but your home.
I want a ban on it for everywhere but your home.
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