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[Kreed]

I liked this One Piece argument better when Halycon did it 2+ years ago, when it was an actual argument/discussion.

I'm getting emails now from scanlators accusing me of profiting. I'm done.

If idiots want to run the only people who care about quality and ethics off of the scene because they believe every anonymous lie they read on the internet, then may they reap what they sow.

Is it really that bad (the email/criticisms)? I'm pretty sure you (Red Hawk) have more supporters than critics. Definitely understand your decision either way though, you don't deserve that for doing something you enjoy for an entire community for free.

This whole profiting rumor kind of reminds me of the current Bakuman plot.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I liked this One Piece argument better when Halycon did it 2+ years ago, when it was an actual argument/discussion.

Are you sure it was really an actual argument/discussion? Because goddamn every and all fans immediately jumped on him afterwards like rabid wolves.

 

[Big One]

I liked this One Piece argument better when Halycon did it 2+ years ago, when it was an actual argument/discussion.

This argument could work if it wasn't laden with factually wrong bits of information. For example the size of Ikanov is never inconsistent, he always has a huge head. The characters are a variety of sizes is because characters like Crocodile really are fucking tall and huge compared to most. One Piece has never had a problem when it comes to art consistency whatsoever. All the characters are supposed to look like that and that is simply nothing that ever really changes in the series. I do think Oda ruined Nami and Robin with time (even though I do think Nami's new design is actually very good) with the boobage, but aside from that I don't see this argument as being viable in any way possible. You have to take in account that One Piece is very much in the lines of Western cartoons as Oda was inspired by Vicky the Viking so you have a variety of character sizes based off that, mixed in with a bit of anime-style and Akira Toriyama.

 

[CielTynave]

Clover

10+ year old CLAMP series, got the omnibus edition and read it all in one go. First half wasn't too involving, but it got more interesting with the flash backs in the 2nd half.

Spoiler

Really fucking wish I'd known this series was never finished before I bought it though...

 

[Haly]

This argument could work if it wasn't laden with factually wrong bits of information. For example the size of Ikanov is never inconsistent, he always has a huge head.

It gets bigger and smaller depending on how much emphasis Oda wants to place on it. Stylistic choice? Sure, but that doesn't mean I can't get annoyed by it.

The characters are a variety of sizes is because characters like Crocodile really are fucking tall and huge compared to most.

That was my point, that there would be such ludicrous amounts of variety in "humans" in One Piece.

Anyway I'll admit I wrote that post because I was tired of reading gushing posts about One Piece for pages after pages after pages after thread after thread, ad nauseum.

No seriously, it gets really tiring whenever new chapters come out, you get the same exact fucking posts all the time. Why even bother posting? Just say "GODA NOW AND FOREVER UNTIL THE END OF TIME" and be done with it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This argument could work if it wasn't laden with factually wrong bits of information. For example the size of Ikanov is never inconsistent, he always has a huge head. The characters are a variety of sizes is because characters like Crocodile really are fucking tall and huge compared to most. One Piece has never had a problem when it comes to art consistency whatsoever. All the characters are supposed to look like that and that is simply nothing that ever really changes in the series. I do think Oda ruined Nami and Robin with time (even though I do think Nami's new design is actually very good) with the boobage, but aside from that I don't see this argument as being viable in any way possible. You have to take in account that One Piece is very much in the lines of Western cartoons as Oda was inspired by Vicky the Viking so you have a variety of character sizes based off that, mixed in with a bit of anime-style and Akira Toriyama.

Big One, Big Facts, Big Logic™

never change (not that you could)

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Did you lobby to start doing Silver Spoon? Double thanks for that if you did.

That whole project was my idea, yes. I proposed it, recruited the Mangawari guys, and oversaw the first few chapters. Still my second favorite Red Hawk series.

No seriously, it gets really tiring whenever new chapters come out, you get the same exact fucking posts all the time. Why even bother posting? Just say "GODA NOW AND FOREVER UNTIL THE END OF TIME" and be done with it.

People like to express their excitement and joy. One Piece, at its best, is concentrated pleasure. This is like asking people not to scream their lover's name during climax. Might annoy the neighbors but it's to be expected.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That whole project was my idea, yes. I proposed it, recruited the Mangawari guys, and oversaw the first few chapters. Still my second favorite Red Hawk series.


People like to express their excitement and joy. One Piece, at its best, is concentrated pleasure. This is like asking people not to scream their lover's name during climax. Might annoy the neighbors but it's to be expected.

Nobody actually does this

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Nobody actually does this

Well they aren't exactly quiet either. Let's not split hairs.

 

[Big One]

That was my point, that there would be such ludicrous amounts of variety in "humans" in One Piece.

So does this annoy you when Samurai Jack does this too?

 

[Haly]

So does this annoy you when Samurai Jack does this too?

I've never watched the entire thing.

Also i don't have to see people screaming about how good it is every week.

 

[Metal B]

I've never watched the entire thing.

Also i don't have to see people screaming about how good it is every week.

Best solution: You don’t visit the thread, so that other people can talk positive about OP.

 

[chickdigger802]

TLR has better art than OP.

And I still enjoy OP. what?

 

[Dresden]

Best solution: You don’t visit the thread, so that other people can talk positive about OP.

Or you guys can deal with one or two people complaining about uno piece, no?

 

[Metal B]

Complaning is never a problem. Complaning that other people have joy is the real problem.

 

[Big One]

I've never watched the entire thing.

Also i don't have to see people screaming about how good it is every week.

Then you're simply out of touch with the animation medium's community. However overpraise for Samurai Jack doesn't make it any less true. It just seems very rash and overreacting to be complaining about the different sizes of human characters in One Piece, when it's inspired by Western cartoons which do the same exact shit. There's no need to pick at straws when you could be focusing on critique of how Oda has treated Nami over the series.

Complaning is never a problem. Complaning that other people have joy is the real problem.

This much is true, this really annoys the crap out of me.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Best solution: You don’t visit the thread, so that other people can talk positive about OP.

It's kind of hilarious that a guy who's posted in this thread 7 times just told another guy who's been regularly posting for years in the same thread to stop posting so we can have a more open dialogue on saying the same thing that everyone has been saying for 10 straight years.

 

[Haly]

Best solution: You don’t visit the thread, so that other people can talk positive about OP.

Trust me, I've given up MangaGAF a long time ago.

I had over a thousand posts in OT1, I know what I'm talking about.

Then you're simply out of touch with the animation medium's community. However overpraise for Samurai Jack doesn't make it any less true. It just seems very rash and overreacting to be complaining about the different sizes of human characters in One Piece, when it's inspired by Western cartoons which do the same exact shit. There's no need to pick at straws when you could be focusing on critique of how Oda has treated Nami over the series.

Citation needed. No, I'm serious. If you're referring to an interview with Oda or something where he discusses his influence I'd be happy to read it when I have time.

 

[Big One]

Citation needed. No, I'm serious. If you're referring to an interview with Oda or something where he discusses his influence I'd be happy to read it when I have time.

Vicky the Viking is partially what influenced One Piece (alongside Akira Toriyama) go look it up. Even without that it's pretty obvious One Piece has character proportions and styles based off Western animation.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Trust me, I've given up MangaGAF a long time ago.

I had over a thousand posts in OT1, I know what I'm talking about.

Citation needed. No, I'm serious. If you're referring to an interview with Oda or something where he discusses his influence I'd be happy to read it when I have time.

You must have been away for the rise of Big One. He has no facts to back up anything he says, he just figures if he calls anything he believes a "fact" long enough, everyone will accept it as true.

Fifty bucks says he will tell you to look it up yourself.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Best solution: You don’t visit the thread, so that other people can talk positive about OP.

He did not say people can't talk positive about OP.

Not everyone is Big fan of One piece, you know.

 

[Haly]

Fifty bucks says he will tell you to look it up yourself.

I caught that edit, you sly swindler.

 

[Cwarrior]

Just let you guys know one piece is big in europe but dead in the uk(like the rest of anime), I wonder why.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I caught that edit, you sly swindler.

What about it? It's true, you'll see, he does it all the time.

 

[Dresden]

That Vicky the Viking thing is true, from what I remember. Oda mentions it in one of the artbooks or whatever the fuck they're called.

 

[Haly]

Vicky the Viking is partially what influenced One Piece (alongside Akira Toriyama) go look it up. Even without that it's pretty obvious One Piece has character proportions and styles based off Western animation.

Directed by Hiroshi Saito
Studio Mushi Production (01-06)
Zuiyo Eizo (07-78)
Network Fuji Television
Original run 3 April 1974 – 24 September 1975
Episodes 78

Looks western to me!

What about it? It's true, you'll see, he does it all the time.

Well I can't verify if you edited that in after you read Big One's post or not.

(I know of his reputation from the few times I do drop in here.)

 

[Angry Grimace]

Looks western to me!

Well I can't verify if you edited that in after you read Big One's post or not.

(I know of his reputation from the few times I do drop in here.)

I didn't even know he had posted again since then. I have no basis to participate in this argument anyways since I don't care for a 3 page argument about whether One Piece has factually better art than X other series.

As for the Viking series, even if you prove that the series is Japanese and not western, he'll invent some reason he's still right.

 

[Parallax]

Just let you guys know one piece is big in europe but dead in the uk(like the rest of anime), I wonder why.

did they get the 4kids dub? that did a lot of damage here in the us.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

I'm getting emails now from scanlators accusing me of profiting. I'm done.

If idiots want to run the only people who care about quality and ethics off of the scene because they believe every anonymous lie they read on the internet, then may they reap what they sow.

That sucks, I know personally (because I read it) that you guys do quality work on Negima, and I'm sure on other series as well. Hope you reconsider but if not, can't blame you.

 

[Cwarrior]

did they get the 4kids dub? that did a lot of damage here in the us.

Yep we got 4kids dub in the uk , but when I would go over to france or germany it's huge over there.

 

[Big One]

Looks western to me!

Lots of Western cartoons were produced and made in Japan, but Vicky alongside several other series is a cross European-Japanese animated series. This was very common back in the day with a variety of series, even ones that looked blatantly anime-style.

He has no facts to back up anything he says, he just figures if he calls anything he believes a "fact" long enough, everyone will accept it as true.

Name one thing I've said in this argument that doesn't have a fact backed up to it. Oh wait...you don't believe the Vicky the Viking thing...okay well I can't stop blatant ignorance but whatever.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lots of Western cartoons were produced and made in Japan, but Vicky alongside several other series is a cross European-Japanese animated series. This was very common back in the day with a variety of series, even ones that looked blatantly anime-style.

Wasn't your original argument about the art? How does your argument make any sense if it's "blatantly anime-style"

Name one thing I've said in this argument that doesn't have a fact backed up to it. Oh wait...you don't believe the Vicky the Viking thing...okay well I can't stop blatantly ignorance but whatever.

I can't stop blatantly ignorance either.

Big Logic™ as usual.

 

[Big One]

Wasn't your original argument about the art? How does your argument make any sense if it's "blatantly anime-style"

That has nothing to do with the argument whatsoever. Learn to read

I can't stop blatantly ignorance either.

If you can't stop yourself from being ignorant then there is no point for you to even be here discussing this.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That has nothing to do with the argument whatsoever. Learn to read

Tell me what the argument is about then

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Leave the thread for a while and we get into another OP fight lol.
I will this no one should have a problem if every week i want to say OP is great the same can be said for any manga that people like to enjoy .

 

[Big One]

Tell me what the argument is about then

The argument is about One Piece's art, not Vicky the Viking's. The point is that you can't really legitimately critique someone's art because it's "cartoony." To say you prefer it to others, or prefer others to it is another thing all together.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Grimace, your "rag on Big One" schtick has made you look a giant tool for the last few months of Manga GAF, quit it already.

When someone actually backs up an opinion or argument with facts, you can no longer continue ranting "HE NEVER BACKS UP HIS ARGUMENTS, LOL BIG ONE (TM)". You forfeit that tedious comeback.

Also I'm not sure if people realise the insanity of finding things to nitpick OP about simply because people have been gushing about it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The argument is about One Piece's art, not Vicky the Viking's. The point is that you can't really legitimately critique someone's art because it's "cartoony." To say you prefer it to others, or prefer others to it is another thing all together.

Sure, but why did you bring Vicky the Viking up to support that One Piece is inspired by Western Art? I don't get it.

 

[Haly]

Lots of Western cartoons were produced and made in Japan

Question, what makes a cartoon "Western" if not its country of origin? And we're talking from a purely artistic standpoint.

but Vicky alongside several other series is a cross European-Japanese animated series.

As far as I can tell, no European animator had a direct hand in the making of Vicky. Its sole concession to the West is the source material. You mentioned "several other series", could you name a few?

This was very common back in the day with a variety of series, even ones that looked blatantly anime-style.

A blatantly anime-style anime produced entirely in Japan is supposed to be a European-Japanese hybrid? What?

 

[Parallax]

damn, this thread got super heavy......

Yep we got 4kids dub in the uk , but when I would go over to france or germany it's huge over there.

im assuming the german and french dubs were superior to the english one. i mean there was a funimation dub, but the damage had been done by then.

 

[Angry Grimace]

damn, this thread got super heavy......



im assuming the german and french dubs were superior to the english one. i mean there was a funimation dub, but the damage had been done by then.

Welcome to Mangaf. It happens.

 

[Haly]

The argument is about One Piece's art, not Vicky the Viking's. The point is that you can't really legitimately critique someone's art because it's "cartoony." To say you prefer it to others, or prefer others to it is another thing all together.

Interesting, because I recall saying something to that effect in my post.

Anyway, I lost track of where I was going with this but I'll summarize: I don't like One Piece's art. In my opinion it is bad compared to that of other series. This is how I feel, so please don't get offended.

I mean it's even a TL;DR for people who didn't want to read my entire post and just skipped to the end, so I'm not sure what your problem is.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Grimace, your "rag on Big One" schtick has made you look a giant tool for the last few months of Manga GAF, quit it already.

When someone actually backs up an opinion or argument with facts, you can no longer continue ranting "HE NEVER BACKS UP HIS ARGUMENTS, LOL BIG ONE (TM)". You forfeit that tedious comeback.

Also I'm not sure if people realise the insanity of finding things to nitpick OP about simply because people have been gushing about it.

So this post totally makes sense to you

Grimace, your "rag on Big One" schtick has made you look a giant tool for the last few months of Manga GAF, quit it already.

When someone actually backs up an opinion or argument with facts, you can no longer continue ranting "HE NEVER BACKS UP HIS ARGUMENTS, LOL BIG ONE (TM)". You forfeit that tedious comeback.

Also I'm not sure if people realise the insanity of finding things to nitpick OP about simply because people have been gushing about it.

Let me guess, this post totally makes sense to you:

Saying, "Orihime did not receive proper character development in Hueco Mundo." is, in no way whatsoever, an opinion. Saying, "Orihime is a bad character." is.

 

[Solune]

Grimace, your "rag on Big One" schtick has made you look a giant tool for the last few months of Manga GAF, quit it already.

When someone actually backs up an opinion or argument with facts, you can no longer continue ranting "HE NEVER BACKS UP HIS ARGUMENTS, LOL BIG ONE (TM)". You forfeit that tedious comeback.

Also I'm not sure if people realise the insanity of finding things to nitpick OP about simply because people have been gushing about it.

Though I don't complete condone Angry Grimace's posts(because herp derp backseat modding), where are the facts that Big One has posted? I don't hold a particular grudge against anyone in this argument, merely I haven't seen any indication of facts

 

[Metal B]

I didn't even know he had posted again since then. I have no basis to participate in this argument anyways since I don't care for a 3 page argument about whether One Piece has factually better art than X other series.

It's always a stupid discussion, because it's always comes down to taste. No professional artist produce really bad art, the only discussion ground is if the artist can make his idea and scene understandable. For example Oda main objective is to show a big, versatile and strange world. His character design and art helps him to achieve this goal and helps us to understand his message. Of course, he could have chose any other style, but in his opinion this style works the best for him, the viewer and the short time he have to produce a chapter.
Sometimes it works to 60% and sometimes 100%. We can complain at a 60% mark a and discuss what didn’t work this time. Ff the information are constantly on a low level or the quality falls under a tolerant mark even been outrage. On the other hand if a artist actually gets really close to 100% or even surpass it, we should have the pleasure to be joyful of this rare moment (Certainly liking the art and storytelling helps or affects people to get easier to this point).

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's always a stupid discussion, because it's always comes down to taste. No professional artist produce really bad art, the only discussion ground is if the artist can make his idea and scene understandable. For example Oda main objective is to show a big, versatile and strange world. His character design and art helps him to achieve this goal and helps us to understand his message. Of course, he could have chose any other style, but in his opinion this style works the best for him, the viewer and the short time he have to produce a chapter.
Sometimes it works to 60% and sometimes 100%. We can complain at a 60% mark a and discuss what didn’t work this time. Ff the information are constantly on a low level or the quality falls under a tolerant mark even been outrage. On the other hand if a artist actually gets really close to 100% or even surpass it, we should have the pleasure to be joyful of this rare moment (Certainly liking the art and storytelling helps or affects people to get easier to this point).

I don't think there's anything wrong with One Piece's story or One Piece's art in the first place.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I don't even know why Angry Grimace still likes to start arguments with Big One so much .
Both of them will never change each other so it's a lost cause.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Grimace, your "rag on Big One" schtick has made you look a giant tool for the last few months of Manga GAF, quit it already.

When someone actually backs up an opinion or argument with facts, you can no longer continue ranting "HE NEVER BACKS UP HIS ARGUMENTS, LOL BIG ONE (TM)". You forfeit that tedious comeback.

Also I'm not sure if people realise the insanity of finding things to nitpick OP about simply because people have been gushing about it.

It's pretty easy to label anyone who profess that there is something that they don't like in One Piece as "nitpicking insanity", isn't it? Newsflash: not all of the 'criticizers', so to speak, are doing that because we want to be a contrarian. Really, not all of us are like that.

And yes, I too enjoy One Piece.

It's always a stupid discussion, because it's always comes down to taste. No professional artist produce really bad art, the only discussion ground is if the artist can make his idea and scene understandable. For example Oda main objective is to show a big, versatile and strange world. His character design and art helps him to achieve this goal and helps us to understand his message. Of course, he could have chose any other style, but in his opinion this style works the best for him, the viewer and the short time he have to produce a chapter.
Sometimes it works to 60% and sometimes 100%. We can complain at a 60% mark a and discuss what didn’t work this time. Ff the information are constantly on a low level or the quality falls under a tolerant mark even been outrage. On the other hand if a artist actually gets really close to 100% or even surpass it, we should have the pleasure to be joyful of this rare moment (Certainly liking the art and storytelling helps or affects people to get easier to this point).

I think you are missing the point here. I really think Angry Grimace is arguing not because he hates or even dislike One Piece... it's because something else entirely.

 

[Dresden]

No professional artist produce really bad art

nope

 

[Pie and Beans]

Hey cool, now Grimace's heated guns are on me. Yeah, I agreed with that comment about Orihime, because she didn't experience any character development from that arc. Afterwards, sure, she became more confident with the time skip but its pretty factual that she didn't change in any fundamental way throughout Hueco Mundo. Just saying she's a bad character is an opinion however because no matter how weak willed or whiny a character can get, they serve a purpose.

But split some more hairs.

Vicky the Viking was a german book originally wasn't it? Not sure if that had the character designs already established, but that'd make it a western thing eventually animated in Japan dealio.