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Ben & Jerry's drops fortune cookies from 'Lin-Sanity'

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H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Izick said:
I wonder if we'll ever get to that Star Trek level of human unity?

Where basically 99% of the population don't give a shit about race/creed, and just want to better humanity as a whole, instead of just their race or religion.

People will probably laugh at that, but look how far we've come in just the past hundred years or so.
Click to expand...

Well, humanity would need a common goal or enemy. So until the race of humanoids with asses for faces shows up, we'll probably keep on fighting each other. Also, as long as resources are unevenly distributed and some people feel deprived, we will not get along.
 
D

Desmond

Member
DarkFlow83 said:
As a person of Irish and Scottish decent, I find it racist that they use white ice cream with everything. Also MacDonald's is insulting Irish people everywhere with French frys implying that we still only eat potatoes.
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I eat potatoes at least 5 days a week
KuGsj.gif
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
The headline was bad but I think everyone would survive fortune cookies (or even almond cookies!) in some ice cream.
 
3

3phemeral

Member
Almond cookies or egg tarts sounds damned delicious.

I honestly don't see the Fortune Cookie as being that bad of an idea, considering it's solely a Chinese American restaurant thing (and kinda fits), but I can understand if they were trying to go for something authentically Chinese-inspired and realized a little late in the game the potential backlash that could ensue.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
nib95 said:
Fortune cookies a bit silly to get worked up over. Though it's also a bit of a silly novelty bad taste addition to add that Asian element imo. If I was heading the design of such a new product, I'd have offered an alternative. Sticking to a re-brand of the graphics would have sufficed.

On a side note, I'd have to agree that "Chink in the armour" could very well be racist. If it wasn't intended as such, the writer was so negligent and lacking in common sense he should have lost his job either way.
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If somebody can't use the phrase "chink in the armor," that's PC bullshit. Unequivocally. When people complain about political correctness being bullshit, the idea of being offended at the phrase "chink in the armor," which is WAY older of a phrase than "chink" for somebody of Chinese descent, is exactly what people think of. It's literally no different than if a black person were to take offense at the word "niggardly," despite the fact that that word has nothing to do with the word nigger.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Fortune cookies taste nasty anyway so this was probably for the best.

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody can't use the phrase "chink in the armor," that's PC bullshit.
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If you cannot imagine a scenario where someone could use your excuse in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way to slip in a racial slur for a quick laugh then you've probably never been on the receiving end of racial taunts.
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody can't use the phrase "chink in the armor," that's PC bullshit. Unequivocally. When people complain about political correctness being bullshit, the idea of being offended at the phrase "chink in the armor," which is WAY older of a phrase than "chink" for somebody of Chinese descent, is exactly what people think of. It's literally no different than if a black person were to take offense at the word "niggardly," despite the fact that that word has nothing to do with the word nigger.
Click to expand...

Context, though, can change the use of "chink" or "niggardly" from something innocuous into something racist.
 
P

Pickles the Firecat

Banned
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody can't use the phrase "chink in the armor," that's PC bullshit. Unequivocally. When people complain about political correctness being bullshit, the idea of being offended at the phrase "chink in the armor," which is WAY older of a phrase than "chink" for somebody of Chinese descent, is exactly what people think of. It's literally no different than if a black person were to take offense at the word "niggardly," despite the fact that that word has nothing to do with the word nigger.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure if a black NASCAR driver were given the headline "A Niggardly Spectacle", it would be racist.
 
A

apocalidiot

Banned
It took me a bit to make the connection, so either I'm slow or its that I just woke up. They should ask Lin how he feels about this and act accordingly
 
U

Utako

Banned
You don't flavor something by someone's ethnicity. Holy shit, guys.

I bet GAF would be totally cool with sugar-cookie-chunks in the shape of fried chicken to honor a black athlete. No?

It just so happens that the Asian equivalent coincidentally goes well with ice cream.
 
B

BobLoblaw

Banned
Utako said:
You don't flavor something by someone's ethnicity. Holy shit, guys.

I bet GAF would be totally cool with sugar-cookie-chunks in the shape of fried chicken to honor a black athlete. No?

It just so happens that the Asian equivalent happens to go well with ice cream.
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Beat ya by 3 minutes bruh, but you're right.
 
K

Kurtofan

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody can't use the phrase "chink in the armor," that's PC bullshit. Unequivocally. When people complain about political correctness being bullshit, the idea of being offended at the phrase "chink in the armor," which is WAY older of a phrase than "chink" for somebody of Chinese descent, is exactly what people think of. It's literally no different than if a black person were to take offense at the word "niggardly," despite the fact that that word has nothing to do with the word nigger.
Click to expand...

Using the phrase "chink in the armor" in a context involving an Asian-American isn't racist?LOL.
 
shira

shira

Member
Utako said:
You don't flavor something by someone's ethnicity. Holy shit, guys.

I bet GAF would be totally cool with sugar-cookie-chunks in the shape of fried chicken to honor a black athlete. No?

It just so happens that the Asian equivalent coincidentally goes well with ice cream.
Click to expand...
Just wait till there is a hispanic president.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Count Dookkake said:
Context, though, can change the use of "chink" or "niggardly" from something innocuous into something racist.
Click to expand...

Of course I buy that somebody could use the terms in a racist way, but "chink in the armor" as used in casual conversation or commentary does not suddenly become racist just because you happen to be describing a person of Chinese descent. You'd have to reasonably establish that the person had used the terms in an intentionally racial way (and, unsurprisingly, these sorts of things tend to be obvious).

Hell, if you're playing badly, then I'll describe you as a chink in a team's armor no matter what your race.

Edit: And again, a colloquial phrase does not become retroactively racist just because one of its words takes on a racial undertone in certain contexts. The meaning of "chink" in "chink in the armor" is completely distinct from its provenance as a slur for Chinese people, and if you just go "wait, he said 'chink in the armor' with regard to an Asian person? RACIST" without actually thinking about the different contexts of the phrases and the context in which the person used the phrase, then you're basically actively looking to make something that clearly is not racial into something racial. That's what anti-PC people have a problem with, and it's one of the primary ways in which otherwise agreeable liberalism becomes unpalatable to a lot of people.
 
K

Kurtofan

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Of course I buy that somebody could use the terms in a racist way, but "chink in the armor" as used in casual conversation or commentary does not suddenly become racist just because you happen to be describing a person of Chinese descent. You'd have to reasonably establish that the person had used the terms in an intentionally racial way (and, unsurprisingly, these sorts of things tend to be obvious).

Hell, if you're playing badly, then I'll describe you as a chink in a team's armor no matter what your race.
Click to expand...

How about you don't call an Asian person a "chink" in any context because it might be misinterpreted? There are other ways to call someone a liability.

It's not "pc bullshit", it's called cultural sensitivity and tact.
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Of course I buy that somebody could use the terms in a racist way, but "chink in the armor" as used in casual conversation or commentary does not suddenly become racist just because you happen to be describing a person of Chinese descent. You'd have to reasonably establish that the person had used the terms in an intentionally racial way (and, unsurprisingly, these sorts of things tend to be obvious).

Hell, if you're playing badly, then I'll describe you as a chink in a team's armor no matter what your race.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying the phrase "chink in the armor" should be banished from discourse. However, Lin's Chinese-ness is front and center and it's clearly a dumb thing to say if you're talking about him. It doesn't have to be intentionally hateful, but boy would you have to be stupid to say it. And it's not unreasonable for somebody, somewhere, to be offended by the use of "chink," for any reason, when talking about a Chinese person.

It's not necessarily racist, but it's insensitive. Why would you rather be hyper-rational about the use of a word )which has plenty of viable alternatives) than avoid hurting someone's feelings? Do you think that Chinese people have absolutely zero justification to be offended?
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Have people never read an espn headline? They're usually play on words, double entendres, puns whatever. It wasn't a straight forward headline. The implication was there.

If it were like the cavaliers or the "knights" or something than the joke would be there. But the joke was oh hes aisan. Heres a slur.
 
shira

shira

Member
hey_it's_that_dog said:
Nobody is saying the phrase "chink in the armor" should be banished from discourse. However, Lin's Chinese-ness is front and center and it's clearly a dumb thing to say if you're talking about him. It doesn't have to be intentionally hateful, but boy would you have to be stupid to say it. And it's not unreasonable for somebody, somewhere, to be offended by the use of "chink," for any reason, when talking about a Chinese person.

It's not necessarily racist, but it's insensitive. Why would you rather be hyper-rational about the use of a word than avoid hurting someone's feelings?
Click to expand...

But he's American with Taiwanese parents
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Kurtofan said:
How about you don't call an Asian person a "chink" in any context because it might be misinterpreted? There are other ways to call someone a liability.
Click to expand...

If somebody misinterprets something that is clearly not racial, that's their own problem. Lin's Chineseness is only "front and center" because people chose to willfully misconstrue a phrase from one context and imbue meaning into it from another context. "Chink in the armor" is a race-neutral phrase and should remain so. This sense that we always need to watch what we say in order to not offend people, even when something that we say should not be offensive in any way and is only construed as such due to a tangential linguistic relation, is what tends to bug people about political correctness.

Edit: Zoe, why does it make a difference? Why should we not use "chink in the armor" just because one of its words has taken on unfortunate latter-day contexts? It's still a perfectly good phrase.
 
C

Count Dookkake

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Of course I buy that somebody could use the terms in a racist way, but "chink in the armor" as used in casual conversation or commentary does not suddenly become racist just because you happen to be describing a person of Chinese descent. You'd have to reasonably establish that the person had used the terms in an intentionally racial way (and, unsurprisingly, these sorts of things tend to be obvious).

Hell, if you're playing badly, then I'll describe you as a chink in a team's armor no matter what your race.

Edit: And again, a colloquial phrase does not become retroactively racist just because one of its words takes on a racial undertone in certain contexts. The meaning of "chink" in "chink in the armor" is completely distinct from its provenance as a slur for Chinese people, and if you just go "wait, he said 'chink in the armor' with regard to an Asian person? RACIST" without actually thinking about the different contexts of the phrases and the context in which the person used the phrase, then you're basically actively looking to make something that clearly is not racial into something racial. That's what anti-PC people have a problem with, and it's one of the primary ways in which otherwise agreeable liberalism becomes unpalatable to a lot of people.
Click to expand...

You are arguing with something that I did not say.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Count Dookkake said:
You are arguing with something that I did not say.
Click to expand...

I understood and agreed with what you said (I assumed it would be implicit that yes, somebody could intentionally use those phrases racially if they so chose, but sometimes stating things out loud for the sake of argument can be a useful concession). I used what you said as a jumping off point for another path of discussion.
 
L

lenovox1

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody misinterprets something that is clearly not racial, that's their own problem. Lin's Chineseness is only "front and center" because people chose to willfully misconstrue a phrase from one context and imbue meaning into it from another context. "Chink in the armor" is a race-neutral phrase and should remain so. This sense that we always need to watch what we say in order to not offend people, even when something that we say should not be offensive in any way and is only construed as such due to a tangential linguistic relation, is what tends to bug people about political correctness.

Edit: Zoe, why does it make a difference? Why should we not use "chink in the armor" just because one of its words has taken on unfortunate latter-day contexts? It's still a perfectly good phrase.
Click to expand...

It was a terrible joke that an ESPN editor thought would be clever. The phrase itself is innocuous, the intent wasn't.
 
K

Kurtofan

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
If somebody misinterprets something that is clearly not racial, that's their own problem. Lin's Chineseness is only "front and center" because people chose to willfully misconstrue a phrase from one context and imbue meaning into it from another context. "Chink in the armor" is a race-neutral phrase and should remain so. This sense that we always need to watch what we say in order to not offend people, even when something that we say should not be offensive in any way and is only construed as such due to a tangential linguistic relation, is what tends to bug people about political correctness.

Edit: Zoe, why does it make a difference? Why should we not use "chink in the armor" just because one of its words has taken on unfortunate latter-day contexts? It's still a perfectly good phrase.
Click to expand...

Words evolve.They change meaning over time.
"Chink" is racially charged now and doesn't work in all context like it used to.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Kurtofan said:
How about you don't call an Asian person a "chink" in any context because it might be misinterpreted? There are other ways to call someone a liability.

It's not "pc bullshit", it's called cultural sensitivity and tact.
Click to expand...

Some people are too ignorant, stupid or actually racist to think or want to think that far ahead. You're writing about a Chinese star who has already had racist controversy surrounding him, the last thing you do is write an article about him using the word "chink" in the headline. Dent, gap, crack etc sure, if not, change the fucking heading. This whole thing about context. he could have meant it non racially doesn't come in to it. If there's a high probability it could be percieved as racist and offensive to a great many people for obvious reasons, don't use it. With God knows how many words at your disposal, there's no need to throw in a highly likely to be antagonistic one.

If not for racism, he should have still been fired for lack of foresight and stupidity. That headline is about the farthest thing from professional journalism and common sense as you can get.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Kurtofan said:
Words evolve.They change meaning over time.
"Chink" is racially charged now and doesn't work in all context like it used to.
Click to expand...

Yes, but "chink" in the phrase "chink in the armor" has a clearly non-racial metaphoric context. Unless you can clearly established that somebody used the phrase with regard to a Chinese person BECAUSE they're Chinese, then you have to actively imbue the meaning from a completely different, unrelated context in order to construe it as something racial.

There is a degree of volition involved in the taking of offense. It's fine to take offense to somebody calling you a nigger. I take exception to people opportunistically jumping on an innocuous phrase in order to read race into it.
 
-COOLIO-

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
the fortune cookies thing was really dumb

the dude grew up in taiwan and even if he were from china, it'd still be dumb.
 
M

marathonfool

Member
To those who don't understand how this is racist or offensive.

Ethnic minorities in America constantly are confronted with messages that caricature and reduce their racial identity as non-conforming or abnormal to normative majority (white) culture. This occurs most frequently in media and occasionally expresses itself in products such as Abercrombie shirts and this Ben & Jerry Ice Cream. It chains and resigns a person's ethnicity to an artifact of culture that is different than the dominate group. The dominate group then has the power to shape and subjugate the subordinate group to a stereotype or caricature.

In this particular case, it is telling they thought the best way to honor Jeremy Lin is to associate his success to his cultural stereotype. This type of messaging hurts minorities, disarms their achievement, and places their ethnic stereotype as a notable token.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
nib95 said:
Some people are too ignorant, stupid or actually racist to think or want to think that far ahead. You're writing about a Chinese star who has already had racist controversy surrounding him, the last thing you do is write an article about him using the word "chink" in the headline. Dent, gap, crack etc sure, if not, change the fucking heading. This whole thing about context. he could have meant it non racially doesn't come in to it. If there's a high probability it could be percieved as racist and offensive to a great many people for obvious reasons, don't use it. With God knows how many words at your disposal, there's no need to throw in a highly likely to be antagonistic one.

If not for racism, he should have still been fired for lack of foresight and stupidity. That headline is about the farthest thing from professional journalism and common sense as you can get.
Click to expand...

Why should I have to avoid using something that's clearly innocuous in terms of its context just because people might possibly maybe perchance perceive it as racially insensitive? That's not ignorance, that's expecting people to think for even a second about the context in which a phrase was used.

It's this sort of de facto censorship of thought and speech that is so loathsome about PC culture to me, and I sure hope that PC culture is dying, man.

Edit: And while it's not "racist" to put fortune cookies in the Lin ice cream since it doesn't actively disparage anybody, I actually do understand why people might be bugged by somebody being boiled down to their ethnic/racial identity, so it's not as though I'm completely deaf to cries of racial sensitivity. I just think "chink in the armor" is a completely ridiculous thing to take offense to in the context in which it was written, no matter the race or background of the person to whom it was referring.
 
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